Lazy Teachers

dame

slumped wrote: »

OK - we need to clarify something - MY posts relate to PRIMARY

Primary School Teacher:

8am - 3pm (typically) which results in 7 hours teaching a day.

2 hours planning per day

4 Sundays for Communion Preparation (if involved)
10 BOM meetings after hours (if teachers rep/principal/VP)
2 Sundays for Confirmation
1 Open Day (Sunday)
1 Sports Day (Sunday)

There are 183 teaching days in the school year.

183 x (7 hours teaching + 2 hours prep per day) = 1647

Meetings/Communions etc. as above = 50

Preparation every weekend = 2 x 33 weekends = 66 hours

Add together: 1763 hours

Divide this by 48 and it works out at 36 hours per week.

So to sum up - Teachers at Primary level do as much work in their 'short' year as we do in our normal 35 hours a week job.

S

In your example you must be taking a teacher working in a one room school and teaching every single class. How often does a teacher teach both Communion and Confirmation classes in the one year???

Confirmation happens once every two years and in some dioceses it takes place on a weekday. That depends on the Bishop.

[ASIDE: There are talks to move the Confirmation forward until the candidates are older. Transition year has been mentioned as possible time to do it.]

Sports Day happens on a weekday in June in any school I've ever been to or heard of holding one.

Rural schools do not hold an Open Day as such. They are more likely to have parents dropping in during the school day to enquire about enrolling their kids. (Anyway, if the school is a big one in a city with lots of other schools around, then it's not going to have the one teacher teaching Communion and Confirmation is it?)


Basically, your example is absolute worst case scenario and it would not happen in reality.



EDIT: 8am - 3pm = 7 hours teaching a day??? Come on now, it's six hours at most of actual teaching. 9am until 3pm is 6 hours. Taking worst case scenario that is too, I mean I'm assuming here that they are doing yard duty and are supervising the children at break and lunch. If they choose to go in at 8am to avoid traffic or something that's their own choice. [If they're volunteering to do a breakfast club then that's a good thing and fair play to them for doing this if there are kids that need it.]

dame

InFront wrote: »

Primary teachers work from 8am now?
And two hours of prep work out of school, every single day?
And then they spend another two hours doing this on their weekends off?

I think teachers deserve whatever meagre pay they get, but for what happens in the classroom. I don't believe for a second that the above happens on any sort of regular basis with your average teacher, it just isn't very credible.

I agree.

dame

b.ie polar wrote: »

I find it funny that when I talk to teachers in a non-confrontational way they usually tell me what a perk the hours and holidays are, and that I should consider teaching as a career. However, if I choose to adopt a more begrudging tone, I get given a laundry list of duties that impinges on their free time.

Practically everyone I know has to bring work home with them. Teachers aren't really unique in this regard.

Excellent points!

dame

slumped wrote: »

No. You are not right. Well to clarify:

Primary teachers cannot take unpaid leave (except statutory) for less than 1 year and then it is at the discretion of the BOM

Why does it bother you so much that teachers can do this?

Every employee seeking unpaid leave will only be granted it at the discretion of their employer. I'm sure we could all list cases of people we know (from all sorts of professions) who have been refused.

No, it does not bother me that they can (and do) take their statutory entitlement to unpaid leave. Why would it? I never said it did. I was simply correcting your earlier assertion that they could not take unpaid leave for less than a year at all.

I also have no problem with them taking a year (or more) out if they want to. Why would I or anyone else have a problem with that? It's unpaid. It's up to them if they'd like to travel, sort out their health, try out another career, whatever they want to do. Also, it's for a significant period of time so their class will not have the disruption of having different teachers coming and going, etc.

rainbowtrout

slumped wrote: »

OK - we need to clarify something - MY posts relate to PRIMARY

Primary School Teacher:

8am - 3pm (typically) which results in 7 hours teaching a day.

2 hours planning per day

4 Sundays for Communion Preparation (if involved)
10 BOM meetings after hours (if teachers rep/principal/VP)
2 Sundays for Confirmation
1 Open Day (Sunday)
1 Sports Day (Sunday)

There are 183 teaching days in the school year.

183 x (7 hours teaching + 2 hours prep per day) = 1647

Meetings/Communions etc. as above = 50

Preparation every weekend = 2 x 33 weekends = 66 hours

Add together: 1763 hours

Divide this by 48 and it works out at 36 hours per week.

So to sum up - Teachers at Primary level do as much work in their 'short' year as we do in our normal 35 hours a week job.

S

I wasn't arguing the point. 167 days of teaching relate to secondary school teaching which is what I do.

I wouldn't have gone as far as to break it down by extra activities and preparation as each teacher and school is different. While I most definitely have the experience of preparing work for many hours after school and being involved extra curricular activities, I think perhaps the above example may be a bit extreme in some respects. From my experience most communion/confirmation practice would take place in school hours as would sports days. And I'm not splitting hairs but I've never heard of any school starting at 8am. It's generally not feasible in rural schools because of the bus runs.

liberty 2007

Terry wrote: »

I was a complete prick in school.

Looks like you have'nt changed!

kelle

dame wrote: »

I was waiting for that!
However, doesn't change the fact that I think it's completely scabby for teachers to choose to take time off during the school year for unnecessary elective surgery (done only because of the teachers vanity) when they have 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 months of holidays, which in anybody's book is plenty of time to get something done.

As for the argument about it being cheaper to get married in November than July: get married during the Halloween break then, or Christmas, or Easter!

See teachers, I do actually understand your "issues". But, take note all of you. Your holidays are long enough. Fit anything that is not an absolute medical emergency into them.

Tell me, dame, did you have a falling out with your teacher friends?

dame

kelle wrote: »

Tell me, dame, did you have a falling out with your teacher friends?

No.

Trotter

InFront wrote: »

Primary teachers work from 8am now?
And two hours of prep work out of school, every single day?
And then they spend another two hours doing this on their weekends off?

I think teachers deserve whatever meagre pay they get, but for what happens in the classroom. I don't believe for a second that the above happens on any sort of regular basis with your average teacher, it just isn't very credible.

Im afraid you're mistaken. I qualified with 250 other new teachers this year, and I work with 16 other very dedicated and experienced teachers, and the above is the norm among myself and those teachers.

Im not sure what research you've done in order to consider it incredible to be honest.

I start work at 8 ish in order to give myself some time to get a few things sorted in the classroom before the children arrive. I stay back most days until at least 5, and Im rarely the last to leave. I usually do a half day on Saturday morning, but I'm hoping that next year I wont have the need to do that. I cant see myself cutting down the 4 - 5 hours a week I spend at home checking copies and workbooks though.

Thats my honest summary of my week's work. Its odd how many people can claim here to know all about a teacher's working day having spoken to 1 or 2 teachers.


Anyway.. this thread is starting to become pointless. No other profession has to justify every single thing it does. I work as hard if not harder than any of my friends in the private sector, so to be reading the disrespectful tripe all through this thread is plain frustrating.

InFront

Trotter wrote: »

Im afraid you're mistaken... the above is the norm among myself and those teachers

Presuming that means you've just started the first job of your career two months ago, that sort of outisde hours effort may not be completely surprising.

My only issue is that anyone would claim that an image of a thirty, forty, or fifity year old teacher who knows how to do his/ her job, sits down at home for two hours in the evening, every evening, planning how to do go about doing his job the next day, every day, that's what isn't credible.

8am starts every day also isn't "the norm". I happen to know a reasonable number of teachers on a personal basis, including one I live with. All of them are extremely dedicated individuals, most would be too worn out at the end of the day to even consider doing half of what you suggest is "the norm".

dame

InFront wrote: »

Presuming that means you've just started the first job of your career two months ago, that sort of outisde hours effort may not be completely surprising.

Yes, especially if you're currently doing your Dip. I don't now if by recently qualified you mean you've just finished the college course last year, or if you finished the Dip last year. Either way, extra hours would be expected of anyone, in any career, in the early stages.

dame

Trotter wrote: »

Thats my honest summary of my week's work. Its odd how many people can claim here to know all about a teacher's working day having spoken to 1 or 2 teachers.


Anyway.. this thread is starting to become pointless. No other profession has to justify every single thing it does. I work as hard if not harder than any of my friends in the private sector, so to be reading the disrespectful tripe all through this thread is plain frustrating.

I am related to or very good friends with 15 teachers. I know a good few more than that.

I think you'll find that accountability is a feature of most jobs/professions.

It's not disrespectful tripe. Everybody knows most teachers do a good job and educate the pupils under their care as well as they can. It's simply pointing out that teachers should do what they feel they need to do in their personal lives, outside of the school day or school year.

squishywishy

dame wrote: »

Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work. They are usually expected to do a set of standard tests every year and will probably mark those outside of school, but otherwise they will generally mark things during the day.

Secondary teachers might have more need to mark things outside of school hours (class tests, mock exams, etc). Then again, secondary teachers may have free periods during their day which very few primary teachers have. Those free periods can be used for marking.

Primary teachers can do optional training (a few days) during the summer but doing it gives them "course days" that they may take at any stage during the next school year. I presume this is what kbannon was referring to? Secondary teachers have the option of supervising exams or marking exams, both of which they will be paid for (on top of their salary for working the rest of the year). If it's optional then they can't really complain about it.

You must have a very sad and empty life if this is all you have to moan about!!
Wouldnt agree about the primary teachers marking work during the day! yes we monitor and tick the odd few pieces of work during class but the majority of my correcting is done after school, if i sat down to correct 30 copies during class a riot would break out! you have no idea how difficult it is to organise and keep 30 children working and on task all day.....if you did have any concept of how difficult it is you wouldnt have opened your mouth!

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

you have no idea how difficult it is to organise and keep 30 children working and on task all day.....if you did have any concept of how difficult it is you wouldnt have opened your mouth!

Meh, depends on the class and on the teacher. Some classes will be rowdier than others (age, gender, number in class, percentage with problems) and some teachers will have more of a presence (comes with experience to a certain extent). Most jobs at a management or supervisory level will involve similar to be honest.

By the way, there was no complaint in that excerpt you quoted.

squishywishy

dame wrote: »

I cannot remember ever not having a spelling test or other such work corrected by the end of the same day. Essays etc would be read by the teacher when we were busy working on another subject.

Unless you're some child genius i'm assuming you were educated before the 1999 primary curriculum came in which has a new emphasis on children beimg active in their learning hwich means teachers can no longer sit at the top of the room while the children work, We're always moving around and assisting them. you're judging what happens in schools on your own educational experience which is nothing like schools today so you cant make sweeping statements about what happens in school when you dont have a clue

squishywishy

dame wrote: »

Meh, depends on the class and on the teacher. Some classes will be rowdier than others (age, gender, number in class, percentage with problems) and some teachers will have more of a presence (comes with experience to a certain extent).

No it doesnt! you honestly have not got a clue!! id love to bring you into my class and see how long you last cos from your posts i wouldnt even say you'd manange a day. When was the last time you organised a group of 30 children for a trip or took them on a walk or to a park or even got all their stuff packed and coats on?

Parents have difficulty getting one or two kids packed and ready for school yet people can come on boards and bitch and moan about teachers when we organise and mother 30 kids all day.

When you've experienced it yourself then you can moan!!!

dame

squishywishy, do you not think it's a bit much for teachers to be taking time out during the school year for personal stuff that could be arranged to be done during their long holidays? That's the issue, not how hard it is to put 30 kids coats on.

Seth Brundle

squishywishy wrote: »

When you've experienced it yourself then you can moan!!!

Ignore dame. (S)he obviously hasn't a clue about teaching despite 'knowing' some.

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

When you've experienced it yourself then you can moan!!!

By the way, I did work experience (a whole whopping two weeks, not a lot I know ) in a primary school.

And yes, it does depend on the presence the teacher has to a large extent. We can all remember some teachers we would never have acted up on and others who tolerated a bit more.

dame

kbannon wrote: »

Ignore dame. (S)he obviously hasn't a clue about teaching despite 'knowing' some.

You haven't experienced it yourself, you "know" your wife who happens to be a teacher. Should you be ignored???

Seth Brundle

Im not the one bitching about them making general, ill-informed statements about teachers.

Maybe then you can properly answer my post - www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54445588&postcount=104
Where did you get your information about *all* teachers from?

squishywishy

dame wrote: »

squishywishy, do you not think it's a bit much for teachers to be taking time out during the school year for personal stuff that could be arranged to be done during their long holidays? That's the issue, not how hard it is to put 30 kids coats on.

Cant believe you are accusing me of going of topic when you've used this thread for a teacher bashing!!!!
IMO weddings are exceptional circumstances that will only happen once in your life so why not take a few days off. Most teachers when off for a few days break their backs preparing work for the children for the days they wont be there anyway so if the childrens education wont be damaged then what is the harm???

You'd prob begrudge people time off for a funeral too!!!!

dame

*sigh* Go back a few pages kbannon. The "no" was in answer to another poster who had asked a question which had already been answered earlier in the thread.

squishywishy

kbannon wrote: »

Im not the one bitching about them making general, ill-informed statements about teachers.
Where did you get your information about *all* teachers from?

well said kbannon

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

You'd prob begrudge people time off for a funeral too!!!!

Now that's a sweeping statement! :rolleyes:

If you'd paid attention you'd realise that a funeral would be an emergency (which I said all along was fine). It's usually unexpected, unplanned for and the exact date and time a person dies are usually not known in advance.

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

well said kbannon

Nah, he's ruled himself out of the "argument" too due to his lack of personal experience.
He's obviously totally unreliable, just like he'd have me to be.

squishywishy

Now that's a sweeping statement!

If you'd paid attention you'd realise that a funeral would be an emergency (which I said all along was fine). It's usually unexpected, unplanned for and the exact date and time a person dies are usually not known in advance.

No s**t sherlock!
i have been paying attention but your argument is so irrational that its difficult to know what you'd allow!!!!!!!!!!!

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

No s**t sherlock!

Seemed like you needed it spelled out. I hope you don't use that language in the classroom, shock horror! :eek:

Actually, it seems quite irrational just how touchy the teachers here are. I'm sure most of you would actually agree that personal things should be planned for (where possible) holiday periods.

squishywishy

dame wrote: »

Seemed like you needed it spelled out.

Actually, I was just thinking all the teachers here seem to be irrationally touchy!

No im not irrationally touchy i just dont see why clueless people slate the hard work i do.

dame

squishywishy wrote: »

No im not irrationally touchy i just dont see why clueless people slate the hard work i do.

Who has slated your hard work?