Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

spareman

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But then the bus drivers won't be commuting. As a private sector employee I realise that sometimes working conditions have to change to suit and while I might not like it I either accept it or move to another job. The sooner that privatisation is introduced, the better the service we'll all get.

I cant wait for privatisation either, just hope you will still be here so I can laugh at you and say I told ya so.

MiniD

andrew163 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but why are the 37/38/39/70 (and other buses that are nothing to do with Harristown) affected by this?

Most busy routes require extra buses at peak hours. Some of these are fixed journeys operated by buses called "Euro" buses. A "Euro"duty is a bus which only operates at the peak hours - morning and evening rush. Some of these buses operate from Harristown depot. So while Phibsboro garage operate the 37/38/39 and 70, a lot of the peak time buses on these routes are actually operated by Harristown.
Because of this, a lot of peak time services will be affected on these routes tomorrow.

Nevyn

Well then if there is a probelm with the security in the canteen that is supplied by dublin bus why hasn't that been sorted ? Why wasn't it dealt with before now ?

spareman

trellheim wrote: »

You may be asked this tomorrow, so I'll ask it now.

Given that the Labour Court has sided with the company in this case [ see my earlier post for the recommendation ], why did you not accept the LCR recommendation ?

i.e the one that said "try it for 6 months and if it's causing hassle we'll look at it again"

Whenthey said try it for 6 months, they were talking about the travel time payment of 46 mins, it was to be reviewed after 6 months.
Management attemted to get rid of traveling time in Donnybrook Garage last year but failed, This has nothing to do with one or two routes, The company has an agenda to get rid of traveling time on all routes and prolong the working day for driver's who dont want it.

heres an example of a duty,

start donnybrook garage 09.00
take bus to town and operate a route
break 50 mins in city
leave bus in city 16.30 and make your way to donnybrook
finish Donnybrook garage 17.00

company want to change this
to start garage 09.00
finish in city 17.00
make your way to garage for 17.30

this add's 30mins to our working day.
This is a mild example, working 9 to 5 isn't very often for bus drivers.
If a harristown driver starts in the city and finishes in the city thats 92 mins added to his 8 hour day, 5 days a week is an extra 7 hours 40 mins more time at work, So instead of the agreed 39 hour week, we now do 46 hour 40 min.
Surely we should have the right to refuse overtime if we dont want to do it?
That 39 hour week is drive time, in the seat as they say, it does not include breaks, some of which could be up to 4/5 hour breaks.
Actual time away from home could be closer to 55/60 hour week plus travel time to and from garage.
Most people who work 7 to 3, 8 to 4, or 9 to 5, actually have there breaks included in there 8 hour day. we dont so our day is a minimum of 9 hours based on minimum break of 1 hour.

penexpers

Sounds like it's begun anyway. There's an 83 stop outside my house and I haven't heard a single bus go by this morning.

markpb

I rang the depot at 7 - nothing going out there

RuggieBear

markpb wrote: »

I rang the depot at 7 - nothing going out there

rang the dublin bus helpline and was told everything was normal except for harristown...do these guys know wtf is going on?:rolleyes:

gazzer

Im a bit confused this morning(nothing new there). I was listening to Newstalk to see what the latest was with the bus situation. They had a spokeswoman from DB on who was talking about this 46 minute issue. She said that that issue arrises if the driver starts his/her shift at Harristown Garage BUT they dont have to start from the garage. They can head straight to the city centre from their house and bypass the garage... If this is true what the hell is the problem??

Hagar

spareman wrote: »

What are you talking about? Or do you even know?

I'm talking about commuters waiting on buses that don't come because of fictitious timetables.

penexpers

gazzer wrote: »

Im a bit confused this morning(nothing new there). I was listening to Newstalk to see what the latest was with the bus situation. They had a spokeswoman from DB on who was talking about this 46 minute issue. She said that that issue arrises if the driver starts his/her shift at Harristown Garage BUT they dont have to start from the garage. They can head straight to the city centre from their house and bypass the garage... If this is true what the hell is the problem??

Where would they leave their car?

dub_commuter

Yes Gazzer, I heard this as well, it involved taking their bus home from them, apart from the obviously silly idea this is, surely there are also security issues?

RuggieBear

well i saw plenty of 7's on my way into work this morning.

I also got a 4A:eek:

I asked the driver and he said he was from a different depot and is probably the only 4A operating today.

markf909

How long before unofficial pickets are dispatched to the other depots and the DART depot?

penexpers

RuggieBear wrote: »

well i saw plenty of 7's on my way into work this morning.

I also got a 4A:eek:

I asked the driver and he said he was from a different depot and is probably the only 4A operating today.

According to rte.ie, one 4A got out this morning from Harristown and that's the last one.

7 doesn't operate from Harristown.

mikemac

markf909 wrote: »

How long before unofficial pickets are dispatched to the other depots and the DART depot?

What? :eek:
Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are seperate companies. (within CIE though)

Whatever about blockading bus depots, the Dart has nothing to do with this dispute.
There will be some backlash if there is no Dart at 5pm today.

RuggieBear

penexpers wrote: »

According to rte.ie, one 4A got out this morning from Harristown and that's the last one.

7 doesn't operate from Harristown.

I know... i just misinterpreted what markpb said.lol

Padraig Mor

Were the drivers not paid thousands of euro in "disturbance" money to make the move to Harristown? And now they're complaining about the travel time to get there?

jlang

Am I right in saying that the travelling time the drivers are arguing over is the standard working practice in every other garage in the city and that the only reason that Harristown drivers haven't had this issue yet is because their routes either have a terminus near enough to the garage or they've only been covering peak time Euro duties on routes from other garages - i.e. the bus wouldn't need to be away from the Harristown for long enough to need a driver change. If this is true, with Harristown being the only garage with sufficient capacity to take new frequent routes and all-day routes always requiring a driver change (probably in town), this situation was inevitable with any new all-day route and must get sorted at this point or else any expansion of the bus network will hit the same problem.

markf909

micmclo wrote: »

Whatever about blockading bus depots, the Dart has nothing to do with this dispute.
There will be some backlash if there is no Dart at 5pm today.

It has happened in the past.

spareman

Hagar wrote: »

I'm talking about commuters waiting on buses that don't come because of fictitious timetables.

Well driver's have to put up with these ridiculas journey times too, and we have to put up with abuse from people who are waiting for the bus that is late because of these ridiculas journey time's, some of which had been agreed 10/15 years ago and have never been reviewed.

Trampas

Ask yourself how would you feel if you drove into your office and they said you are getting moved to x building but you still park you car here but you wont get paid until you get there and stop getting paid when you leave even though you still have to come back you to main office.

Colonel Sanders

I work in the insurance sector. Its in my contract that with relevant notice I can be moved to any office in Ireland. Hibernian have moved offices recently and RSA and Allianz will move very shortly. These moves affect workers commutes (some will have shorter journeys, some longer).

what is the situation with Dublin bus drivers contracts re this kind of issue?

MiniD

jlang wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the travelling time the drivers are arguing over is the standard working practice in every other garage in the city and that the only reason that Harristown drivers haven't had this issue yet is because their routes either have a terminus near enough to the garage or they've only been covering peak time Euro duties on routes from other garages - i.e. the bus wouldn't need to be away from the Harristown for long enough to need a driver change. If this is true, with Harristown being the only garage with sufficient capacity to take new frequent routes and all-day routes always requiring a driver change (probably in town), this situation was inevitable with any new all-day route and must get sorted at this point or else any expansion of the bus network will hit the same problem.

That's it in a nutshell. As I mentioned earlier, if this new route was operating from any other depot, we wouldn't be having this strike.

markf909

The General Secretary of the National Bus and Rail Union has warned that the dispute at Dublin Bus might spread to other areas.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Michael Faherty said pickets could also be mounted at other depots.

Ah there we are, when can we expect this?

AlekSmart

As with much of how this wee country is run at the moment,the REAL isues behind this dispute are like a hydra`s head.

Probably the most obvious is the failure of the Original Union negotiation team to have the ENTIRE Harristown Operational Agreement reduced to writing.

The Labour Relations Commission spotted this immediately and as a result this important agency ruled against the Union case as it had NO proof that any binding guarantee had been advanced by the Company.

"A verbal contract ain`t worth the paper it`s written on"....Was that Henry Ford ?...Matters little but it`s THE basic element of any and all negotiated agreements.

Following on from this omission comes the very fluid undercurrent of radicalism vs traditionalism in Trade Union representation and a perception that the radical element will "Get you what we want" while the established Unions are "In the company`s pocket".

Both of the above are largely nonsensical and the truth lies firmly in between.
The benefit of a committed,well briefed interested negotiating team will always show through irrespective of their affilliations to active Socialism and it`s constituent parties.

What some employees are also realizing is that the same Union negotiators who made the Harristown omission are now deep into talks on the implimentation of the somewhat loopy EU 48Hr Max Working Time directive.

The implimentation of this EU Directive is going to have VERY serious impact on ALL vocational Drivers income,both Commercial and Passenger Drivers.

One of the Company`s desires is to eliminate ALL payments for non-driving time.
Thus the current issue can be seen as a test for how far such cuts can be slipped in before sparking a reaction.

THe 48Ur Directive will severely limit any Bus/Truck Operators flexibility and concurrently will reduce the earnings capability for Staff who could in the past enhance earnings via regular overtime working.

Whilst some sources are denying it,I believe that BAC and Bus Eireann as well as EVERY other Operator in the State will be forced to re-draw all of their current working arrangements.
The present Official line is that "Most" rosters can be tweaked to incorporate the EU directive.
This I feel is nonsense given the huge level of complex interdependence between shifts and rosters which go to make up every Vocational Drivers working day.

Essentially its a clean sheet of paper which is required and the Employers know well that will COST....big time.
All the time running along in the background is the arrogance and affrontery of Mr Ahern and his fellow Politicians in matters renumerative....Mr Ahern should not dismiss the reality of what happened to the last public figure(ine) who said......."Let them eat cake?".........

Now that`s my 2c worth....or perhaps I should be adjusting that upwards for inflation...??

John Mason

i think it's funny that the bus drivers are not prepared to take public transport to work, like the rest of us

meanmachine3

most people in here are lamb basting bus drivers for going on strike,maybe your right maybe your wrong. this thread is about the threatened strike. but i'd to mention a few things for those that do lamb baste us to think about.

do you ever wonder where drivers go to pee when they're stuck out in the middle of nowhere

most people in here that work have a full break maybe two. last week 1 day out of 4 last week i managed to get a full break. yes i could have taken it but then the bus i was driving wouldn't have operated and those that complain here would have been stranded. that happens all the time.

nothing is hardly mentioned about the abuse we get of passengers.

without mentioning routes. there would be a bus service if it weasn't for the drivers acting in the public's interest.

how many of you have sat waiting for another driver to take up the bus your on and what was your worst experience. 10 mins,15 mins. if dublin bus brings these changes in thats what will happen. if the drivers get what they want then you wont be waiting for another driver or be chucked of the bus even though you've still along way to go on that very bus you paid your fare on because there is no relief driver.

the ordinary public unfortunately are not informed of these things i have mentioned. your only told what dublin bus want you the hear.
i know i went of the topic but i had to get my point across as a bus driver.

irishbird i beg to differ, lots of drivers to use public transport to get to work. i use it alot when i can and i'll be using it tomorrow.

Colonel Sanders

can I just repeat my question. What does Dublin bus drivers' contracts of employment have to say about this matter? Seeing as a few Dublin bus drivers seem to be posting on this thread surely some of them know

meanmachine3

to answer your question Colonel Sanders ,absolutely nothing. what governs us as bus drivers are two types of agreements. national and local. local agreements dictate how things work in each individual garage. national agreements are for all the garages combined.

jjohnson1984

I hear there will be another strike tommorow It seems a 4a went out from another garage, I doubt that would have went down well with the Unions.