Rememberance day

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

Ain't he right though that the poppy commemorates all those in the British conflicts he mentions in the lists?

Your welcome to remember them yourself as you identify with it, but try not to force that tradition onto an Irish way of life hence we need an Irish way to remember those conned by Redmond that fell in WW1 plus other wars whoever side they fought for.

it commemorates those that died or were injured in those conflicts. as I have said before most of the people that die in conflicts are ordinary people and wearing a poppy is a public way of remembering those ordinary joes that died. if people do not want to wear a poppy then that is fine, but I and a great many other people do and we want to wear them with pride. A great many Irish people have selective memories when it comes to British conflicts.

when you get some half wit spouting off a load of incorrect, sensationalist political crap about the poppy, then it is an insult to the memories of those who gave their lives.

gurramok

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it commemorates those that died or were injured in those conflicts. as I have said before most of the people that die in conflicts are ordinary people and wearing a poppy is a public way of remembering those ordinary joes that died. if people do not want to wear a poppy then that is fine, but I and a great many other people do and we want to wear them with pride. A great many Irish people have selective memories when it comes to British conflicts.

when you get some half wit spouting off a load of incorrect, sensationalist political crap about the poppy, then it is an insult to the memories of those who gave their lives.

So, why should we Irish commemorate British citizens who served in the British army even for those conflicts after 1922?...thats the 'sensationalist political crap' i and many Irish have a problem with.

Just because a select few Irish join the British army for a better wage is not a good enough excuse!

As you say its about remembering ordinary joes, what about the other ordinary joes of the USA/France/Russia/Italy/Germany etc who fought and died in the likes of WW1/WWII(as these 2 wars are mentioned most) plus the many wars since?

Now as i've said from the similar after hours thread, my own grandad fought in WWI, War of Independence here, the Civil War here and joined in WWII(yes the British army) to get some dosh for the family, the likes of him and his Irish comrades should be remembered by way of an Irish custom and not a British one, he would of been proud of that if he was still alive today.

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

So, why should we Irish commemorate British citizens who served in the British army even for those conflicts after 1922?...thats the 'sensationalist political crap' i and many Irish have a problem with.

Just because a select few Irish join the British army for a better wage is not a good enough excuse!

As you say its about remembering ordinary joes, what about the other ordinary joes of the USA/France/Russia/Italy/Germany etc who fought and died in the likes of WW1/WWII(as these 2 wars are mentioned most) plus the many wars since?

Now as i've said from the similar after hours thread, my own grandad fought in WWI, War of Independence here, the Civil War here and joined in WWII(yes the British army) to get some dosh for the family, the likes of him and his Irish comrades should be remembered by way of an Irish custom and not a British one, he would of been proud of that if he was still alive today.

then start an Irish custom, but remember many of those that died it for more than money.

and as for me, like I said earlier it is to remember those who died or were injured, I said nothing about nationality. Sure the money goes to the british legion, but I think the gesture of rememberence is the important thing.

Gobán Saor

Fratton Fred wrote: »

BTW, Calling the Falklands the Malvinas just makes you look like a wind up merchant.

Really?
During the conflict, the Irish Times had a policy of referring to the place as the Falklands/Malvinas. Took a bit of flak for it too from certain types.

Gobán Saor

And in fact, this still seems to be the paper's policy.

From 1999, http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/1999/0311/99031100066.html

Prince Charles was at the centre of a dispute last night after comments he made about the Falklands/Malvinas islands during his visit to Argentina

and from a 2005 obituary of Pope John Paul II: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2005/0402/breaking62.html

1982 May-June: Pastoral visits to Britain and Argentina during which he attempts to mediate in the conflict over the Falklands (Malvinas).

Erin Go Brath

Fratton Fred wrote: »

then start an Irish custom, but remember many of those that died it for more than money.

We should start an Irish custom. Finding something we all agree on is proving difficult though, especially with boards users

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Sure the money goes to the british legion, but I think the gesture of rememberence is the important thing.

So we'd be putting money towards the British Royal legion, hardly a major incentive to go out running to buy a poppy now is it. How does that help Irelands war dead family/relatives in any way.

Don't get me wrong, I think its right English people should wear the poppy to commemorate their war dead. It makes absolutely no sense for Irish people to wear one though.

LordSutch

Tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & World War II, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year.

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the Poppy, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the massive loss of Irish life in the two World Wars! No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my Poppy 'thats for sure' not that I have ever encountered any abuse or negative comments.

But what I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (35 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is still lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died in the PoppY fields of Flanders, then at least please try & recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War alone.

Thirty Five Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

gurramok

ArthurF wrote: »

Tens of thousands of Irish men died in the Great War & World War II, and for this reason alone I think it a fitting tribute to remember those tens of thousands of Irishmen who died by wearing a PoppY on or around the 11th/November every year.

It really rattles me when 'some' Irish people start going-on about why Irish people shouldnt wear the Poppy, in many instances its pure ignorance on their part as to the origin/ financing/ significance of Remembrance Day, which is saddening really when you think about the massive loss of Irish life in the two World Wars! No amount of abuse will ever stop me wearing my Poppy 'thats for sure' not that I have ever encountered any abuse or negative comments.

But what I find really strange is that when the figures are mentioned (35 Thousand Irish dead in WWI alone) some Irish people dont even bat an eyelid, some then go on to abuse their memory, most refuse to wear a PoppY whilst not being aware that their very own Great Grandad is still lying in a field in France................

Wear the PoppY to rember those who died, & even if you dont give a toss about the English/ Scots/ Welsh & Ulstermen who died in the PoppY fields of Flanders, then at least please try & recognise the memory of those Tens of thousands of Irish men from the South who perished in the Great War alone.

Thirty Five Thousand Irish Dead is no Joke.

Its not my duty as an Irishman to remember British soldiers who fell in our War Of Independence, the Falklands War and the Iraq war through the wearing of a poppy.

My own grandad was on that field you mention also and survived, his comrades died for Ireland's freedom through the promise of Home Rule which never materialised.

July 11th is already used to remember Irish soldiers who fell, we don't need a British custom to remember British soldiers here in Ireland.

Ireland left the British empire donkeys years ago.

LordSutch

gurramok wrote: »

Its not my duty as an Irishman to remember British soldiers who fell in our War Of Independence, the Falklands War and the Iraq war through the wearing of a poppy.

My own grandad was on that field you mention also and survived, his comrades died for Ireland's freedom through the promise of Home Rule which never materialised.

July 11th is already used to remember Irish soldiers who fell, we don't need a British custom to remember British soldiers here in Ireland.

Ireland left the British empire donkeys years ago.

Home Rule was on the cusp of being intruduced when the Great War broke out in 1916 as you well know, only to be rudely interrupted by War & the continuing political drama in Ireland including the rising in which approximately (120 men died) we then threw out the baby out with the bathwater (Memory lapse~What War?~We now hate Poppies) interesting to note though, that there were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of Northern Ireland in that decade, and it was only in the followng decades that we then decided to forget that WWI ever happened, or that Thirty Fife Thousand Irish men died on the PoppY fields of Flanders!

Its all there in the History books Mr gurramok, if you have the time to check it out!

On the 11th Hour, of the 11th Day, of the 11th Month, we will Remember them.

Even if you dont.

McArmalite

ArthurF wrote: »

Home Rule was on the cusp of being intruduced when the Great War broke out in 1916 as you well know, only to be rudely interrupted by War & the continuing political drama in Ireland including the rising in which approximately (120 men died) we then threw out the baby out with the bathwater (Memory lapse~What War?~We now hate Poppies) interesting to note though, that there were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of Northern Ireland in that decade, and it was only in the followng decades that we then decided to forget that WWI ever happened, or that Thirty Fife Thousand Irish men died on the PoppY fields of Flanders!

Its all there in the History books Mr gurramok, if you have the time to check it out!

On the 11th Hour, of the 11th Day, of the 11th Month, we will Remember them.

Even if you dont.

Not trying to be a smart ass, but you've made a few assertions I'd disagree with.

" Home Rule was on the cusp of being intruduced when the Great War broke out in 1916 " The Great War broke out in 1914. As for Home Rule been on the cusp of being introduced, do'nt buy it, we all know about the promises and tricks of Perfidious Albion :mad: .

The British Army reported casualties of 116 dead, 368 wounded and 9 missing. 16 policemen died and 29 were wounded. Irish casualties were 318 dead and 2,217 wounded. The Volunteers and ICA recorded 64 killed in action. . " Its all there in the History books Mr ArthurF, if you have the time to check it out! " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_rising#Casualties

"interesting to note though, that there were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of Northern Ireland in that decade". Not trying to beat you down, but I'd be a bit skeptical of that. Many people in Dublin were not exactly fans of the british army, for just and obvious reasons, might have been risking a black eye and a bursted nose I wonder. But if you can produce a link or whatever to prove that were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of the Six Counties I'll acccept being corrected.

Funny thing is, I have only seen about 4 poppy's in Dublin this year. Other years I seen more ?? And in all my time, I cannot recall seeing anyone in the rest of the country wearing one. ( I'm not saying that nobody wears it down the country, but I cann't recall seeing one - honest).

brianthebard

I'd say Arthur is right about the amount of poppies sold Armalite, mainly because of the huge furore that always happened because of them. there was indeed many a black eye, and a full blown riot in Stephen's green on at least one occaison. People would hide a razor blade behind their poppy so that those who would try and rip it off would get a nasty shock. If memory serves correctly, people who wore poppies were normally aligned with Cumann na Gaedheal and anti poppites were SF/dev supporters. All of this was part of a WWI and fascism module I did. Its interesting to think that people are still divided along those lines of moderates and *ahem* less moderates, both in politics and on the poppy, in Irish to this day.

McArmalite

brianthebard wrote: »

I'd say Arthur is right about the amount of poppies sold Armalite, mainly because of the huge furore that always happened because of them. there was indeed many a black eye, and a full blown riot in Stephen's green on at least one occaison. People would hide a razor blade behind their poppy so that those who would try and rip it off would get a nasty shock. If memory serves correctly, people who wore poppies were normally aligned with Cumann na Gaedheal and anti poppites were SF/dev supporters. All of this was part of a WWI and fascism module I did. Its interesting to think that people are still divided along those lines of moderates and *ahem* less moderates, both in politics and on the poppy, in Irish to this day.

" People would hide a razor blade behind their poppy so that those who would try and rip it off would get a nasty shock. " A bit of a foolish thing to do I'd say. Might provoke a serious bashing, I know that would be my reaction. A fella once cut the side of my lip when he punched me with a ring on, I still have a small scar. But all I'll say is, he'll never forget me or the bashing I gave him......... . Fellas who try the scare/shock tatic by been Mr. Nasty Bast@rd has 2 consquences (A) It works (B) It does'nt, and instead it provokes an absoulute battering.

As for Cumann na Gaedheal wearing poppy's, have'nt seen a picture of say Cosgrave or Richard Mulcahy, Kevin O'Higgins etc wearing one. If they did I'll stand corrected. And anyone concur with me about poppy's mainly only been worn in Dublin ?

brianthebard

You can't treat picture/popular media evidence as conclusive, not in that period at any rate. How many original pictures have you seen of those people in any case? In any case I didn't say the party wore them, I was trying to say that they were used as another way of putting oneself one side or the other of the civil war issue.

LordSutch

McArmalite wrote: »

Not trying to be a smart ass, but you've made a few assertions I'd disagree with.

" Home Rule was on the cusp of being intruduced when the Great War broke out in 1916 " The Great War broke out in 1914. As for Home Rule been on the cusp of being introduced, do'nt buy it, we all know about the promises and tricks of Perfidious Albion :mad: .

Irish casualties were 318 dead Its all there in the History books Mr ArthurF, if you have the time to check it out! " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_rising#Casualties

"interesting to note though, that there were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of Northern Ireland in that decade". Not trying to beat you down, but I'd be a bit skeptical of that. Many people in Dublin were not exactly fans of the british army, for just and obvious reasons, might have been risking a black eye and a bursted nose I wonder. But if you can produce a link or whatever to prove that were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of the Six Counties I'll acccept being corrected.

Funny thing is, I have only seen about 4 poppy's in Dublin this year. Other years I seen more ?? And in all my time, I cannot recall seeing anyone in the rest of the country wearing one. ( I'm not saying that nobody wears it down the country, but I cann't recall seeing one - honest).

Irish casualties were indeed 318, and of that 318 120 were IRA!
Irish casualties in the Great War (also 1916) were upward of 35.000

As regards the wearing of the Poppy, alas it has been discouraged in the South for about six decades (until recently) but most attending C of I Churches this Sunday 11th/ will be wearing one, as will most people attending the annual Rembrance Day Service in St Patrricks Cathedral at 3:15when the President lays a Poppy wreath.

brianthebard has reiterated what I heard from my Grandmother regarding the climate in Dublin several decades ago re those wishing to remember their Loved ones by wearing a Poppy, and those who stopped them wearing them.

McArmalite

brianthebard wrote: »

You can't treat picture/popular media evidence as conclusive, not in that period at any rate. How many original pictures have you seen of those people in any case? In any case I didn't say the party wore them, I was trying to say that they were used as another way of putting oneself one side or the other of the civil war issue.

Fair enough, still can'nt imagine the poppy been too populiar in Dublin all the same. If someone can produce hard evidence to the contrary, fine. Was'nt there almost a riot outside Trinity when the butchers apron was flown from a building one time ? Appartently a young UCD student called Charlie Haughey was invovled . Would'nt say wearing a poppy would go down to well either.

LordSutch

You must take into account Macarmalite that Irish idenity & allegiances went through a massive change between 1900 & 1922ish from Ireland being Part of the United Kingdom & with Union Jacks flying in Grafton Street & Poppies being worn by the majority, to Union Jacks being hated and the Poppy virtually disappearing off the streets of every Southern Town! and all this happened within the space of twenty-thirty odd years.

By the way, there are several pictures hanging in my local doctors surgery taken from Queen Victoria's last visit in 1900 (I think) when DunLaoghaire Pier was packed with Union Jacks, as are the Pictures from Blackrock and the City Centre for her arrival.

Union Jack one century ~ Tricolour now, and what next? if the North leaves the UK maybe another flag will emerge?

Sadly much of our history has been re-written, or subtly altered.

gurramok

ArthurF wrote: »

Home Rule was on the cusp of being intruduced when the Great War broke out in 1916 as you well know, only to be rudely interrupted by War & the continuing political drama in Ireland including the rising in which approximately (120 men died) we then threw out the baby out with the bathwater (Memory lapse~What War?~We now hate Poppies) interesting to note though, that there were more Poppies sold on the streets of Dublin in the 1920's than in the whole of Northern Ireland in that decade, and it was only in the followng decades that we then decided to forget that WWI ever happened, or that Thirty Fife Thousand Irish men died on the PoppY fields of Flanders!

Its all there in the History books Mr gurramok, if you have the time to check it out!

On the 11th Hour, of the 11th Day, of the 11th Month, we will Remember them.

Even if you dont.

Oh yes, home rule was 'suppose' to be introduced back then, i know my history

Only after about a 45 year wait and a bribe of providing manpower for the Briitish army in WW1 with the encouragement of Redmond.

Maybe there were more poppys sold in Dublin than the north, that does not prove much.
If it was true, it suggests that people at the time used poppys as a way of remembering the needless slaughter, the people were certainly not singing the British Anthem nor waving union jacks enthusiastically en masse.

Sad thing was that the use of a poppy had been hijacked by the British for political ends to this day hence poppy is not appropiate in modern independent Ireland

ArthurF wrote:

You must take into account Macarmalite that Irish idenity & allegiances went through a massive change between 1900 & 1922ish from Ireland being Part of the United Kingdom & with Union Jacks flying in Grafton Street & Poppies being worn by the majority, to Union Jacks being hated and the Poppy virtually disappearing off the streets of every Southern Town! and all this happened within the space of twenty-thirty odd years.

By the way, there are several pictures hanging in my local doctors surgery taken from Queen Victoria's last visit in 1900 (I think) when DunLaoghaire Pier was packed with Union Jacks, as are the Pictures from Blackrock and the City Centre for her arrival.

Union Jack one century ~ Tricolour now, and what next? if the North leaves the UK maybe another flag will emerge?

Sadly much of our history has been re-written, or subtly altered.

Poppys been worn by the majority?...we'll need proof to back that one up.

For your information regarding urban areas in those pics, there was a unionist minority(10% of population) upto the early 20s here which embraced the Union with flag waving as part of their British culture.

This minority dwindled due to their loss in the War of Independence, some went up north, others back to Britain.

Irish identity never changed, the politics changed from moderate nationalistic(Irish party) to militant nationalistic(Sinn Fein) in that period.

And yes, some of our history has been shamefully tried to be re-written by certain scholars like Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards for their own means.

LordSutch

Are you now answering on McArmalite's behalf?

If I had of been alive back then I would have been a Redmondite for sure!

gurramok

ArthurF wrote: »

Are you now answering on McArmalite's behalf?

Nope, i'm sure McArmalite can answer in his own way

ArthurF wrote: »

If I had of been alive back then I would have been a Redmondite for sure!

That view sounds a bit at odds as Unionists were opposed to Home Rule in pre-independence days(remember Carson!) and Redmond was the ardent supporter of Home Rule!

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it commemorates those that died or were injured in those conflicts. as I have said before most of the people that die in conflicts are ordinary people and wearing a poppy is a public way of remembering those ordinary joes that died. if people do not want to wear a poppy then that is fine, but I and a great many other people do and we want to wear them with pride. A great many Irish people have selective memories when it comes to British conflicts.

when you get some half wit spouting off a load of incorrect, sensationalist political crap about the poppy, then it is an insult to the memories of those who gave their lives.

The poppy "commemorates those that died or were injured in those conflicts." Not true by a fraction. The poppy only commerates british forces deaths and injuries, many of which were deservedly inflicted by the resistance forces in Malay, Cyprus etc. It does'nt commerate the countless innocent victims of british wars of oppresion and annexation. The problem is, it is "half wits" ( I'm repeating myself, but to think I was banned for a week for using the word 'plonker' ) like yourself who " spouting off a load of incorrect, sensationalist political crap...who have selective memories when it comes to British conflicts". . " it is an insult to the memories of those " many, many innocent victims of british mass terrorism.

gurramok wrote: »

Nope, i'm sure McArmalite can answer in his own way

That view sounds a bit at odds as Unionists were opposed to Home Rule in pre-independence days(remember Carson!) and Redmond was the ardent supporter of Home Rule!

" i'm sure McArmalite can answer in his own way " Indeed, gurramok, indeed . As well as been opposed to Home Rule, (and in more recent times the changing of anything to do with the RUC right down to the changing of the cap badge !!! ), the unionists were also against the Act of Union as the unionist Ascendancy which dominated the Irish Parliament of the time, opposed seeding power to London. So much for unionist 'loyalty' and 'britishness'.

McArmalite

ArthurF wrote: »

You must take into account Macarmalite that Irish idenity & allegiances went through a massive change between 1900 & 1922ish from Ireland being Part of the United Kingdom & with Union Jacks flying in Grafton Street & Poppies being worn by the majority, to Union Jacks being hated and the Poppy virtually disappearing off the streets of every Southern Town! and all this happened within the space of twenty-thirty odd years.

By the way, there are several pictures hanging in my local doctors surgery taken from Queen Victoria's last visit in 1900 (I think) when DunLaoghaire Pier was packed with Union Jacks, as are the Pictures from Blackrock and the City Centre for her arrival.

Union Jack one century ~ Tricolour now, and what next? if the North leaves the UK maybe another flag will emerge?

Sadly much of our history has been re-written, or subtly altered.

Fair enough Arthur, but I'm still skeptical regarding the wearing of the poppy. As gurramok writes " If it was true, it suggests that people at the time used poppys as a way of remembering the needless slaughter, the people were certainly not singing the British Anthem nor waving union jacks enthusiastically en masse."
As for the presence of the butchers apron in Blackrock and the city centre, well at least 10% of the population of Dublin were unionists ( mainly Protestant, but by no means a sizeable no. of Catholics also ). For example, in the 1918 election Rathmines returned a unionist, Rathmines in those days was the area for the wealthy and not the culchie/student flat land it is today. But as for the presence of many butchers aprons in Blackrock, the city centre etc, well most of them were the houses and business of the pro british wealthy. Doubt if their were too many of them flying from the houses of the poorer areas.

LordSutch

They wore it to remember their Loved ones who never came home.

I wear my Poppy today to remember my grandad who also never came home to Dublin from WWI, thats all.

McArmalite

ArthurF wrote: »

They wore it to remember their Loved ones who never came home.

I wear my Poppy today to remember my grandad who also never came home to Dublin from WWI, thats all.

Fair enough Arthur, there's no doubt about it that most people who wore it ( seen 3 in town, Dublin, yesterday ) do so to rememeber a loved one and for no other agenda.

I remember reading Tom McGuirk in the Sunday Business Post a year or two ago suggesting the wearing of a green poppy for Irish people who wish to remember their fallen relatives and not the some of the conflicts that are unfortunately associated with the poppy and the money donated to the innocent civilians suffering in ongoing conflicts around the world. A good idea I think ?

brianthebard

gurramok wrote: »

Maybe there were more poppys sold in Dublin than the north, that does not prove much.
If it was true, it suggests that people at the time used poppys as a way of remembering the needless slaughter, the people were certainly not singing the British Anthem nor waving union jacks enthusiastically en masse.

Eh that was the point that we were making all along, its good to see you've finally realise it.

brianthebard

McArmalite wrote: »

Fair enough, still can'nt imagine the poppy been too populiar in Dublin all the same. If someone can produce hard evidence to the contrary, fine. Was'nt there almost a riot outside Trinity when the butchers apron was flown from a building one time ? Appartently a young UCD student called Charlie Haughey was invovled . Would'nt say wearing a poppy would go down to well either.

I've already said that it was a lecturer that told us this fact, so I don't have a text to back it up, but I'm sure Dr. DeMenezes of NUIM would be happy to tell what text you can find it in.

LordSutch

If some people feel ill at ease with wearing the Poppy (because it remembers British & Irish War dead at the same time) then maybe a New Symbol 'unique' to the Republic of Ireland would be an idea?

But surely somebody have come up with a uniquely 'Irish' symbol by now?

It is after all, nearly 90 years since those Tens of Thousands of Irish men were slaughtered on the Poppy fields of Flanders.

Acid_Violet

Ok, so many things about this are factually incorrect.

The poppy ISN'T worn the world over, it's worn THE COMMONWEALTH over.

It's in memory of

Royal British Legion Website wrote:

those who have given their lives for the freedom we enjoy

Implicitly, british and commonwealth soldiers.

The problem I have with the poppy is that;

It doesn't commemorate all victims of war. It doesn't commemorate all who died on the central powers side. If you commemorate only some who died in war and not others, what does that denote?

It commemorates british and commonwelath soldiers who have died in wars since World War One. This includes all conflicts in which they were involved such as;

33m died in India as a result of Britain’s destruction of its economy, which caused widespread famine. At the height of this ‘famine’, British controlled India exported a record 320,000 tonnes of wheat and officials were ordered to “discourage relief works in any way possible”. As late as the 1950s, the British army was committing massive atrocities in the colonies of the empire.

In Kenya more than 100,000 native Kikuyu people died in concentration camps. The soldiers were told they could shoot anyone, “provided they were black”. In one day 1,090 suspected rebels were hanged.

It is part of the glorification of war; 'the glorious dead' written on the cenotaph, the list of the dead called 'the roll of honour'. Come on!

Acid_Violet

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

That is absolutely ridicolus! That is a totally negative standpoint.
Its a symbol of triumph over adversity.

So we should wear it because it's a symbol of military triumphalism?

The artificial poppy continues to flourish as the symbol of remembrance in the week leading up to the official commemorations on November 11. Today, millions of Canadians wear the bright red emblem to remember and honour the many thousands of their fellow Canadians who have died in war.

Tribalism much?

Mrs. MacGyver

No Acid Violet that is not what i meant at all

Acid_Violet

Do tell me so what you meant by it.