Rememberance day

Gobán Saor

Seems to me that the poppy is a symbol which honours veterans of the British Armed forces and the causes they fought for. It is the official symbol of the Royal British Legion and, while it does have a presence outside the UK, it is by and large confined to Commonwealth nations such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. But it is mainly a British thing and commemorates British veterans and British participation in various wars of various shades of morality and justice. Which is all fine and dandy if you're British - I can see exactly why the British people have taken to the poppy and wear it with pride. However, the British Armed forces have also been involved in some pretty nasty behaviour over the years, not least in the suppression of independence wars in Ireland, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Kenya, Malaysia, India, Aden to name but a few. Therefore it is impossible, with any degree of realism, to separate the poppy from its connection with British imperialism. If you live in a country that did suffer from heavy-handed and brutal British imperialism (as Ireland did) I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a generally negative attitude towards the poppy. This is not a simple negative stereotype - it is a reasoned and rational reaction.

We live in a free country with freedom of expression for all. So by all means let those British people living here (like the OP) wear their poppies and commemorate their war dead. I don't see any particular reason for Irish people to commemorate the British war dead. By all means let us commemorate our own war dead, we don't need green poppies or tricolor poppies, we have the perfect symbol already - the Easter lily.

europerson

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Whats wrong with the shamrock idea anyway?

Most people wear shamrock at St. Patrick's Day. it would be like having plum pudding at Christmas and Easter!

Gobán Saor wrote: »

It is the official symbol of the Royal British Legion

Several symbols have different roles: the shamrock represents a load of different things: we don't relate St. Patrick with the Irish Cricket Union, and so on.

We live in a free country with freedom of expression for all. So by all means let those British people living here (like the OP) wear their poppies and commemorate their war dead. I don't see any particular reason for Irish people to commemorate the British war dead.

The poppy commemorates not only British war dead.

By all means let us commemorate our own war dead, we don't need green poppies or tricolor poppies, we have the perfect symbol already - the Easter lily.

I think that's a more loaded symbol than the poppy.

SpitfireIV

Gobán Saor wrote: »

I don't see any particular reason for Irish people to commemorate the British war dead.

But again, its peoples own prefrence, those who choose to wear it, will do so. Its not just British war dead that the poppy commemorates, its all the lives lost, a solomn reminder of war and those who paid the ultimate price.

I, personally, and many I know (who are not ashamed....god forbid, of putting there Irish identity to question) would have no problem what so ever wearing a poppy, and why not, lots of Irish people were brave enough to go off and join the battle, lots never to come home, so what right have we got now, to say that there should be a seperate one just for this group, or that the poppy shouldnt be a symbol for them too. I'm sure the thousands that left to fight didnt think to themselves 'jaysus, you know what, I'd better not go, because in a couple of years Ireland will have some degree of freedom and we'll be labeled as traitors', they did perhaps what they felt was right at the time, and no matter how much of an understanding we today might 'think' we have of them times, we dont know what ran through the heads of those individuals....hindsight is a wonderful thing

Its just a poppy guys

Shutuplaura

I've two granduncles who fought in WWI, one of whom was killed in 1917 and one of whom, after sevice on the Somme and by family legend also in Gallipoli came home to fight with the IRA and was killed by the Iish Army in 1923. I've also an uncle who is very muchalive who joined the British Amyto see the world in the 1960's and later after leaving it became a strong republican in response to the events of 68-69 in the north. I'd imagine that i have some close family connections to the issue. For what its worth I do think that the poppy definately did have strong pro-militaristic connutations from the way it was promoted between by the British Legion in the past. Perhaps its moving away from that as 21st century western society becomes more questioning of why we get involved in foreign wars. There is an altenative though, a white poppy which serves to remember the fallen of the first world war and presumably all wars since but also carries a added implication of hope for the end to future wars. Personally if I was given to wearing any symbols to remember the military tradition of my family which encompases two strands of Irish military tradition I would choose this. That said, I've nothing against the red poppy becasue it has almost completely lost any of the implicit support for militarism it once carried. My uncle, the strong republican ex British army one, sees no contradiction himself in wearing the red poppy on remembeance day and a lily on easter sunday so I say good luck to the OP and to the members of Fine Gael who will be selling them on our streets in the next few weeks!

Dr Strange

I think it comes down to what each individual country has developed as part of their "rememberance day". I don't wear a poppy but that is mainly due because we use the heather (also known as 'Erika') on our war graves (German).
True, we don't wear it but it is nontheless the flower used for all German War Graves as per German War Graves Commission. Also we have pins we can get from the Commission to wear.
I am sure if Ireland had their own version of what symbol to wear on these days it would be easier for most people to choose this instead of wearing nothing.

Erin Go Brath

Gobán Saor wrote: »

Seems to me that the poppy is a symbol which honours veterans of the British Armed forces and the causes they fought for. It is the official symbol of the Royal British Legion and, while it does have a presence outside the UK, it is by and large confined to Commonwealth nations such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. But it is mainly a British thing and commemorates British veterans and British participation in various wars of various shades of morality and justice. Which is all fine and dandy if you're British - I can see exactly why the British people have taken to the poppy and wear it with pride. However, the British Armed forces have also been involved in some pretty nasty behaviour over the years, not least in the suppression of independence wars in Ireland, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Kenya, Malaysia, India, Aden to name but a few. Therefore it is impossible, with any degree of realism, to separate the poppy from its connection with British imperialism. If you live in a country that did suffer from heavy-handed and brutal British imperialism (as Ireland did) I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a generally negative attitude towards the poppy. This is not a simple negative stereotype - it is a reasoned and rational reaction.

We live in a free country with freedom of expression for all. So by all means let those British people living here (like the OP) wear their poppies and commemorate their war dead. I don't see any particular reason for Irish people to commemorate the British war dead. By all means let us commemorate our own war dead, we don't need green poppies or tricolor poppies, we have the perfect symbol already - the Easter lily.

Excellent post! The Easter lily would be a good symbol, and less contentious than the poppy for Irish people to wear.

brianthebard

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

@croppyboy, mrs mcgyver, europerson


I should have put it clearer. The poppy is a symbol of Britains war efforts, which obviously includes the black and tans in the WoI. Now I know its a bit of a subjective one, some people see absolutely no problem, but many do. I for one, while I have respect for Irelands War dead would certainly never wear the poppy to commemorate them. I believe their should be an Irish symbol, like the shamrock etc which should be incorporated as the symbol to represent our dead in these wars.

No its not, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Erin Go Brath

brianthebard wrote: »

No its not, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Do explain it then, oh wise one. Or is an arrogant put down just enough for you? :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Excellent post! The Easter lily would be a good symbol, and less contentious than the poppy for Irish people to wear.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74759

The proceeds of the sale of the Easter Lilies should go
to the Republican political prisoners fund and that is
through CABHAIR who support Republican prisoners
and their dependents.

“Instead of wearing an Easter Lily as a fashion statement,
I would appeal to women to wear it with pride and in
solidarity with the Republican prisoners. In short, wearing
an Easter Lily should honour all those who gave their lives
and freedom for national self-determination.”

less of an issue for those that wish to support republican prisoners I take it.

Mrs. MacGyver

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74759



less of an issue for those that wish to support republican prisoners I take it.

But wouldn't that be tantamount to supporting paramilitaries then?

Fratton Fred

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

But wouldn't that be tantamount to supporting paramilitaries then?

I think it is, although I'm sure some would argue otherwise.

at the end of the day, all anyone wants to do is remember all those who died in conflict, it's a shame it gets so political.

I will be wearing my poppy as to me it is a mark of respect to all those who have given their lives. I find it hard to believe anyone who has visited the graves in France, Belgium (And one I have visited in Thailand) can get so hung up about it. I will also try and get to Glencree on the 18th as well.

McArmalite

Gobán Saor wrote: »

Seems to me that the poppy is a symbol which honours veterans of the British Armed forces and the causes they fought for. It is the official symbol of the Royal British Legion and, while it does have a presence outside the UK, it is by and large confined to Commonwealth nations such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. But it is mainly a British thing and commemorates British veterans and British participation in various wars of various shades of morality and justice. Which is all fine and dandy if you're British - I can see exactly why the British people have taken to the poppy and wear it with pride. However, the British Armed forces have also been involved in some pretty nasty behaviour over the years, not least in the suppression of independence wars in Ireland, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Kenya, Malaysia, India, Aden to name but a few. Therefore it is impossible, with any degree of realism, to separate the poppy from its connection with British imperialism. If you live in a country that did suffer from heavy-handed and brutal British imperialism (as Ireland did) I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a generally negative attitude towards the poppy. This is not a simple negative stereotype - it is a reasoned and rational reaction.

We live in a free country with freedom of expression for all. So by all means let those British people living here (like the OP) wear their poppies and commemorate their war dead. I don't see any particular reason for Irish people to commemorate the British war dead. By all means let us commemorate our own war dead, we don't need green poppies or tricolor poppies, we have the perfect symbol already - the Easter lily.

Great posting. Another thing is how WW2 especially is portrayed as "the great crusade to save mankind" thing. Now I'm not trying to debase the individuals who fought against the Nazi's, fascist Italy and Japan, not in any way. But I'm talking about the governments and senior military. Here is a good article on the so called " good" war. http://www.socialistworker.org/2005-1/530/530_08_Dresden.shtml

And as for WW1, again not belittling the individual rank and file, but as Snickers once remarked, if WW1 was about the freedom of small nations, how come Britain, France and Italy had bigger empires at the end of it than at the beginning ??

This is not just negativity for the sake of dragging something down, (a trait that symbolizes stickie ism), but just reasoned and rational observation and questioning.

cp251

This is not just negativity for the sake of dragging something down, (a trait that symbolizes stickie ism), but just reasoned and rational observation and questioning

'Reasoned and rational observation'? Your absurist and irrational and responses to everything Fratton Fred and others is the polar opposite of rational debate. Rational debate is when you counter the other man's opinion with a reasoned and rational observation not:

"The trouble is, there are many people in Ireland who" can still vividly remember the british army murdering, maiming and assaulting thousands of Irish nationalists between 1969 and 1994 in the occupied counties

None of that is rational, it's a propagandist diatribe.

Don't you understand that most people on this forum think you are a bit of joke and take almost nothing you say seriously? I say this to you because you are obviously intelligent but gratingly immature and woefully ill informed about almost everything you write.

As for citing the socialistworker, oh dear. Not exactly a beacon of truth and rational thought.

If you ever actually calm down, you might be able to contribute usefully to a debate but at the moment you're like a drunk at the back of the bus. Everyone smiles at your antics but wishes you would get off at the next stop.

cp251

As for poppies. Quite simply they are sold as a fundraiser to help raise money for old soldiers. That includes a lot of Irishmen. Buy one if you wish, wear it if you wish. It's up to you. It's not a symbol of British oppression whatever that is. It just demonstrates you care about their welfare. Nothing more, nothing less.
I never bought one, but I was never approached or saw one being sold. I tend not to buy or wear charity badges of any sort anyway.

Gobán Saor

cp251 wrote: »

As for poppies. Quite simply they are sold as a fundraiser to help raise money for old soldiers......... It's not a symbol of British oppression whatever that is.......

With respect, I think that's a little naive. Pop over to the Royal British Legion website and you will see that the poppy honours not only British Armed Forces members but also the causes they fought for. In fact, the whole "pitch" made for the poppy appeal is that it is precisely because of what they fought for that the ex-servicemen now deserve to be supported. So, to support the poppy appeal is to implicitly support all the many wars that the British Army has fought over the last century. As an Irishman I don't support all those wars. Especially the imperialist ones fought against countries like Ireland.

Those who wish to express support for the British campaigns in Ireland, Palestine, Kenya, Suez, Malaysia, Cyprus, India and assorted small nations are free to disagree and wear their poppies with pride:D:D

Erin Go Brath

So we're still no further to a symbol we can all agree on then.
The poppy, the easter lily, the shamrock all seem to be disagreeable to some for different reasons.
Anyone brave enough to suggest another symbol?

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

So we're still no further to a symbol we can all agree on then.
The poppy, the easter lily, the shamrock all seem to be disagreeable to some for different reasons.
Anyone brave enough to suggest another symbol?

the White Poppy appears to be theone that is least offensive as it is as much a peace symbol as it is anything else. The Poppy (The Red one anyway) is recognised widely (Yes, I know mainly in the commonweath, but as the people that came up with the idea were originally American and French, we can presume it is acceptable in those countries as well) so it keeps the theme of recognition alive but is different enough to be, well, different.

Mick86

europerson wrote: »

I really fail to see how.

Suerly you've seen all those Black and Tan patrols roaring around the country. Whooping and a hollerin', stampedin' the women and raping the cattle.

The Poppy's fine by me. Canadians used to wear a Forget me Not I think.

Dr Strange

Mick86 wrote: »

Suerly you've seen all those Black and Tan patrols roaring around the country. Whooping and a hollerin', stampedin' the women and raping the cattle.

The Poppy's fine by me. Canadians used to wear a Forget me Not I think.

The 'forget-me-not' is quite interesting. It is used on German graves as well but also has a special meaning to German freemasons during WWII. They were declared an illegal organisation by the German government during that time and in order to recognise each other they started to wear the 'forget-me-not' instead of the widely known compass and square.

Now freemasons all over the world know the 'forget-me-not' and you can even get them stylised as enamel pins from the Grand Lodge in Molesworth street in Dublin.

Tenger

Posted this in the Irish in WWII thread:


"Sorry getting off topic-I feel something should change in relation to how Ireland treats its history of Irishmen fighting in the British Army. look at the press coverage for that woman from the west who was killed in Afghanistan recently.

To that end I have decided to wear the Red Poppy with my uniform at work for the next month. Keep in mind I am from a Nationalist family from along the Armagh-Monaghan border so am aware of how ppl can interpret this. however I am working in Dublin so the possiblity of being beaten by iron bars like that guy up home 10 days ago is pretty much non-existent.

Today was the second day and some guy (Southern county dublin accent,maybe wicklow)asked me quite pointedly "Why are you wearing a poppy" as if it was wrong. I replied "because my grandfather fought and died in WWII" (the other grandfather than the LDF one)

I am not doing it to glorify the achievements of the British Army but to acknowledge that Irishmen have fought and died in wars that were not Irelands wars. Should I paint the second poppy I bought green and wear it instead? Don't like the politics of the White Poppy,unfortunately I do believe military action can be justified."

Would a green poppy with a shamrock in the centre convey what several ppl here want to show without being mis-interpreted as glorifying the British army/empire/political causes?

Mick86

Preusse wrote: »

The 'forget-me-not' is quite interesting....Now freemasons all over the world know the 'forget-me-not' and you can even get them stylised as enamel pins from the Grand Lodge in Molesworth street in Dublin.

It's actually teh Newfoundlanders that adopted the Forget me no. I bought a lapel pin a few years ago in Delville Wood museum depicting a Poppy and a bunch of Forget me nots.

The Forget-me-not are traditionally worn by Newfoundlanders on July 1st in remembrance of those Newfoundlanders that died during the First World War. July 1 was chosen because of the high number of casualties suffered by the Royal Newfoundland Regiment on 1 July 1916 during the Battle of the Somme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forget-me-not

Bramble wrote: »

Would a green poppy with a shamrock in the centre convey what several ppl here want to show without being mis-interpreted as glorifying the British army/empire/political causes?

I think the symbolism of the poppy is in it's colour, blood sacrifice and all that. The people that object to Irishmen who served in the British army will object no matter what the symbol so changing the colour is pointless, in my opinion.

LordSutch

Wear the PoppY with Pride I say.

I wear a PoppY with pride every year in Dublin (on or around) the 11th, & have done so ever since moving back home ten years ago from England.

Admittedly its not so easy to contribute or receive a PoppY here in the Republic , but you do see PoppY sellers from time to time in Dublin this time of year, & ususlly when you least expect it, on a street corner in the City Centre, or in a doorway Dun Laoghaire or Bray!

Tens of thousands, yes (Tens of thousands) of Irish men from North & South perished in the Great War (flanders PoppY fields) and tens of thousands of irish men also died in World War II, and I can see no reason whatsoever not to remember them, along with our English, Scottish, & Welsh cousins! (I did say tens of thousands of Irish dead, didnt I.)

So I will always wear my PoppY with pride

On the 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month, we will remember them.

Snickers Man

DJ_Spider wrote: »

But as I served in the British Army for 12 years and saw some of my comrades killed in action, I want to wear one. (A red one!)

Thank you, thank you, thank you. For uttering from the horse's mouth, as it were, that the poppy is to commemorate ALL servicemen in the British Army and not just those who fought in two world wars.

DJ_Spider wrote: »

some people might have personal reasons for not liking someone from a particular country. But this is now 2007 and many of the past differances between countries have been resolved or at least diminished.

I have no problem with "The English" but then I'm not, have never been and never will be a Shinner (or a Stickie).

It is entirely appropriate for British people to wear the poppy to commemorate those who died in their country's service. But for the Irish to do so, to commemorate glorious actions in Cyprus, Aden, Malaya, Iraq, Northern Ireland, the Falklands etc is utterly preposterous.

And as I've said before, if you want to commemorate those who defeated Nazism, wear a hammer and sickle in your lapel. It was the Soviet Union who did the overwhelming majority of the fighting.

brianthebard

cp251 wrote: »

As for poppies. Quite simply they are sold as a fundraiser to help raise money for old soldiers. That includes a lot of Irishmen. Buy one if you wish, wear it if you wish. It's up to you. It's not a symbol of British oppression whatever that is. It just demonstrates you care about their welfare. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree. We should wear the poppy not because its some sort of symbol of British imperialism, but in spite of imperialism. It was not the imperialists who fought these wars, but ordinary working men who often had no other choice.

Fratton Fred

brianthebard wrote: »

I agree. We should wear the poppy not because its some sort of symbol of British imperialism, but in spite of imperialism. It was not the imperialists who fought these wars, but ordinary working men who often had no other choice.

which is the reason I am wearing one.

99% of people killed in wars are ordinary people, the majority of whom had no choice in the matter. Those are the people I wish to remember.

Fratton Fred

Snickers Man wrote: »

I have no problem with "The English" but then I'm not, have never been and never will be a Shinner (or a Stickie).

It is entirely appropriate for British people to wear the poppy to commemorate those who died in their country's service. But for the Irish to do so, to commemorate glorious actions in Cyprus, Aden, Malaya, Iraq, Northern Ireland, the Falklands etc is utterly preposterous.

And as I've said before, if you want to commemorate those who defeated Nazism, wear a hammer and sickle in your lapel. It was the Soviet Union who did the overwhelming majority of the fighting.

If tens of thousands of Irishmen were killed or injured fighting for the Russian army and the Russian army looks afther their memory then great, but they weren't they died fighting (Generally speaking) in the British Army.

It is not the conflict that is recognised, it is the service. There are soldiers injured in Afghanistan fighting under UN mandate, the soldiers in Iraq are now there under UN mandate. The Falklands was a justifiable conflict from a British perspective. What about the Balkans, or Korea?

The Army was sent to northern Ireland to initially protect Catholics and there are many examples of where they have done this.

Cyprus, Aden, Malaya?? many young conscripts were sent to those countries oing their national service, because you don't agree with the conflicts should their memory be forgotten? is their courage to be ignored because it doesn't fit in with today's politically correct world?

Tenger

ArthurF wrote: »

Tens of thousands, yes (Tens of thousands) of Irish men from North & South perished in the Great War (flanders PoppY fields) and tens of thousands of irish men also died in World War II,

So I will always wear my PoppY with pride

Great example is the 16th (Irish) Div which fought alongside the 36th (Ulster) Div from the Somme 1916 onwards. All towns in the North have memorials to the 36th but how many in the republic have memorials to the 16th. Both divisions had pretty much equal casualties and were destroyed as fighting forces in Spring 1918 but the 16th has been all but forgotten by the Irish Republic.

Snickers Man wrote: »

And as I've said before, if you want to commemorate those who defeated Nazism, wear a hammer and sickle in your lapel. It was the Soviet Union who did the overwhelming majority of the fighting.

Agree with this point of view. I would class Britain and the US as 'being on the winning side' in WWII rather than outright victors.

Maybe all those ppl with the 'Peoples Republic of Cork' shirts are doing as you say!!!!

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It is not the commemoration that is recognised, it is the service.
............................ many young conscripts were sent to those countries doing their national service, because you don't agree with the conflicts should their memory be forgotten? is their courage to be ignored because it doesn't fit in with today's politically correct world?

The wearing of the poppy only glorifies the British Empire if you think that. I think it commemorates lots of young men who lost their lives fighting around the world.
Indeed it was an Irish soldier who was the last British soldier executed for mutiny. Cpl Daly of the 88th Connaught Rangers stationed in India refused to follow orders after hearing about what was happening at home in 1920. He led others Irish troops but they were all captured and imprisoned. he died for his principles but the same guy might have been villified if he returned home about the same time.

McArmalite

cp251 wrote: »

'Reasoned and rational observation'? Your absurist and irrational and responses to everything Fratton Fred and others is the polar opposite of rational debate. Rational debate is when you counter the other man's opinion with a reasoned and rational observation not:

None of that is rational, it's a propagandist diatribe.

Don't you understand that most people on this forum think you are a bit of joke and take almost nothing you say seriously? I say this to you because you are obviously intelligent but gratingly immature and woefully ill informed about almost everything you write.

As for citing the socialistworker, oh dear. Not exactly a beacon of truth and rational thought.

If you ever actually calm down, you might be able to contribute usefully to a debate but at the moment you're like a drunk at the back of the bus. Everyone smiles at your antics but wishes you would get off at the next stop.

This could never be a ruse to get McArm into trouble could it ? . Gas thing is, if I wrote it I'd be banned immediately.:D " gratingly immature and woefully ill informed .... you're like a drunk at the back of the bus. " ( I actually got banned for a week for using the word 'plonker' on a post.:) - serious. For the record pal, I've received several pm's from people basically saying " good on ya McArm for sticking it up to the sleeven's on the board".

" Rational debate is when you counter the other man's opinion with a reasoned and rational observation". And then he goes on to rant -
" gratingly immature and woefully ill informed... like a drunk". Well done, very reasoned and very rational Einstein.

Your the genius who posted on the military forum " No, our 'neutrality' is protected by the closeness of the British on one side and the Americans on the other. They are our real defence forces. " back on the 06-08-2007. Jayus, have you got the slightest fraction of national self respect - or are you even Irish at all. No one might ever suspect your the unionist from the 'mainland' would they ??

As for " it's a propagandist diatribe " regarding the actions of the british forces to thousands of nationalists between 1969 - 1994, sadly it was too true. What the hell do you think went on for 2 and a half decades, but clearly all you want to see is the actions of the IRA and nothing else. I suppose we'll get the sort of " british army, kinder than the salvation army " reply.

But sure your the fella who also posts " British oppression whatever that is. " Says it all about your mentality doesn't it. What the hell do you think happened in India 1945 - 1948, Palestine 1945 - 1948, Mayala 1948 - 1960, Korea 1950 - 1953, Kenya, 1955 - 1959, Cyprus 1952 - 1960 , Aden 1955 - 1967, Suez 1956, the Six Counties 1969 - 1994, Malvinas 1982, Afghanistan and Iraq at present. Obviously you swallow and perpetrate the line of britian acting humanely and at all times impartially as a peace keeping colonial policeman with their unique sense of fairplay etc, etc , and then you call me " woefully ill informed " ??

Where do you learn your history from - the Kevin Meyers column, Errol Flynn movies, the Irish RM etc, etc

(BTW, ol' Fred is more than capable of sticking up for himself ).

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

What the hell do you think happened in India 1945 - 1948, Palestine 1945 - 1948, Mayala 1948 - 1960, Korea 1950 - 1953, Kenya, 1955 - 1959, Cyprus 1952 - 1960 , Aden 1955 - 1967, Suez 1956, the Six Counties 1969 - 1994, Malvinas 1982, Afghanistan and Iraq at present.

I've aasked you this before, do you know? why don't you try actually putting some thought into your posts rather than just wheeling off a load of unsubstantiated propoganda.

BTW, Calling the Falklands the Malvinas just makes you look like a wind up merchant.

gurramok

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've aasked you this before, do you know? why don't you try actually putting some thought into your posts rather than just wheeling off a load of unsubstantiated propoganda.

Ain't he right though that the poppy commemorates all those in the British conflicts he mentions in the lists?

Your welcome to remember them yourself as you identify with it, but try not to force that tradition onto an Irish way of life hence we need an Irish way to remember those conned by Redmond that fell in WW1 plus other wars whoever side they fought for.