Rememberance day

DJ_Spider

I know this is probably opening a can of worms, as have read the recent thread debating weather to wear a red ot white popy, why we wear one etc. But as I served in the British Army for 12 years and saw some of my comrades killed in action, I want to wear one. (A red one!)

I now have moved to Dublin and have found most people are very friendly towards me as an Englishman. In fact in 18 months I have only had 3 people who had a problem with the English. I would like to ask, without anyone being sarcastic, abusive, or saying feck off back to England, don't support the English etc, like in the previous thread, is there anywhere in Dublin City I can buy a poppy?

Sorry for being a bit of a prude, and I know the internet is all for free speech, but we all have feelings, and also some people might have personal reasons for not liking someone from a particular country. But this is now 2007 and many of the past differances between countries have been resolved or at least diminished.

And hey, let's be careful out there! (Wasn't that said on Hill St Blues or something?!)

DJ Spider

Shutuplaura

Should this be in politics rather than history?

Re the poppy, the British legion has offices in the city - Frederick St near Trinity (of course!) so why not contact them? I heard that this year people are going to be selling them on the streets but I really don't know if i'd believe it.

super_furry

There were several guys selling them on Grafton Street and the bottom of Nasau Street last year - I bought one in memory of my Grandad.

Erin Go Brath

DJ_Spider wrote: »

I now have moved to Dublin and have found most people are very friendly towards me as an Englishman. In fact in 18 months I have only had 3 people who had a problem with the English. I would like to ask, without anyone being sarcastic, abusive, or saying feck off back to England, don't support the English etc, like in the previous thread, is there anywhere in Dublin City I can buy a poppy?

Sorry for being a bit of a prude, and I know the internet is all for free speech, but we all have feelings, and also some people might have personal reasons for not liking someone from a particular country. But this is now 2007 and many of the past differances between countries have been resolved or at least diminished.

Whats with the negative stereotypes Its the 21st century, Ireland is a multicultural secular state these days. What were you expecting a load of angry people with pitchforks waiting for you when you came over or something. :rolleyes: Lad, nobody gives a ****e whether you're from England.
If I go to England will they all be wearing top hats, and saying things like "how the devil are you, old boy"?

As for poppies, no we've none over here. You can feck off back to England to get them.

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Whats with the negative stereotypes Its the 21st century, Ireland is a multicultural secular state these days. What were you expecting a load of angry people with pitchforks waiting for you when you came over or something. :rolleyes: Lad, nobody gives a ****e whether you're from England.
If I go to England will they all be wearing top hats, and saying things like "how the devil are you, old boy"?

As for poppies, no we've none over here. You can feck off back to England to get them.

Lets give this thread 48 hours and see if any of those negative stereotypes show up shall we:D

I tried last year and I was told that Grafton Street would be the best bet, although I also understand a lot of the Church of Ireland churches sell them as well.

europerson

Your local Church of Ireland church is probably the best bet for getting a poppy.

Erin Go Brath

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lets give this thread 48 hours and see if any of those negative stereotypes show up shall we:D

Ah sure theres too much fun to be had.

DJ_Spider wrote:

is there anywhere in Dublin City I can buy a poppy?

Did you try the Sinn Fein shop off Parnell Street? IIRC they keep poppies between the "Come out ye Black and Tans" CDs, and the "I still hate Thatcher" t-shirts. Worth a try!

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Did you try the Sinn Fein shop off Parnell Street? IIRC they keep poppies between the "Come out ye Black and Tans" CDs, and the "I still hate Thatcher" t-shirts. Worth a try!

Actually, I'm sure McArmalite will know, he is the expert on all things English

McArmalite

.

Erin Go Brath

Shutuplaura wrote: »

I heard that this year people are going to be selling them on the streets but I really don't know if i'd believe it.

In daylight hours. :eek:
McArm get the weapons out, we're taking to the streets to stop this sham before it gets started. :cool:

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

In daylight hours. :eek:
McArm get the weapons out, we're taking to the streets to stop this sham before it gets started. :cool:

pitchforks at dawn:D

Erin Go Brath

Fratton Fred wrote: »

pitchforks at dawn:D

So you're going to be collecting your poppy that day then..........brave man.
Watch out for McArm, the FCA trained rooftop sniper. I know how ye English boys love a good ambush.

Fratton Fred

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

So you're going to be collecting your poppy that day then..........brave man.
Watch out for McArm, the FCA trained rooftop sniper. I know how ye English boys love a good ambush.

snipers I can handle, it's those damn ninjas that scare me;)

Mrs. MacGyver

europerson wrote: »

Your local Church of Ireland church is probably the best bet for getting a poppy.

Yes they do but only on Rememberance Sunday (well my one in Cork does anyway). I haven't seen them on sale arond Dublin City Centre at the moment. I wear one in memory of my Granduncle. No one has ever said anything to me. It's a mark of respect to those who died in past wars.

Goldenquick

It's a mark of respect to those who died in past wars. ^5's .

I wear mine with pride when I can get one, but indeed there is the old country ways of "what are ya wearin' that for, shure n it's only for the English wans to be wearing", :rolleyes:

McArmalite

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

So you're going to be collecting your poppy that day then..........brave man.
Watch out for McArm, the FCA trained rooftop sniper. I know how ye English boys love a good ambush.

. The Armalite is ready to rock and roll.

Fratton Fred

Mrs. MacGyver wrote: »

Yes they do but only on Rememberance Sunday (well my one in Cork does anyway). I haven't seen them on sale arond Dublin City Centre at the moment. I wear one in memory of my Granduncle. No one has ever said anything to me. It's a mark of respect to those who died in past wars.

the Poppy is worn the world over as a mark of respect, the trouble is, there are many people in Ireland who don't know there is a world outside of Irelands struggle under British rule.

FiSe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the Poppy is worn the world over as a mark of respect, the trouble is, there are many people in Ireland who don't know there is a world outside of Irelands struggle under British rule.

Think it's more UK/Commonwealth affair.

Havin' said that, I will definately look for one. Got one last year and would like to get one this year as well. Will not wear it though...

ScottishDanny

the FCA trained rooftop sniper.

Is he the one who gets to shout BANG!

I remember reading once that the poppies are made in Germany - theres irony for you!

I'd wear a white poppy if they were available. A way of showing respect for the dead without glorifying the B.E.

McArmalite

" the Poppy is worn the world over as a mark of respect " Is it worn in by your average in the street American, Dane, Belgian, Brazilian, Mongolian etc.... you said all over the world ??

"The trouble is, there are many people in Ireland who" can still vividly remember the british army murdering, maiming and assaulting thousands of Irish nationalists between 1969 and 1994 in the occupied counties. Did it ever occur to you that many Irish people would have a damn good reason for opposing the wearing of a poppy ?? It is'nt surprising that the families and communities that suffered under the terrorism of the british forces for 25 years might have anything but respect for the british army. I wonder will many people be wearing them in the middle east as a mark of respect for the british lads bringing peace to Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. But maybe it's because the middle eastern countries that have been victim's of british justice have, like the Irish, a different view of your conceited british opinion on everything.

After all, there is a world outside "the nation that still pumps itself up on the conceit that it fought the might of Nazi Germany alone" you know Fred.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

" the Poppy is worn the world over as a mark of respect " Is it worn in by your average in the street American, Dane, Belgian, Brazilian, Mongolian etc.... you said all over the world ??

"The trouble is, there are many people in Ireland who" can still vividly remember the british army murdering, maiming and assaulting thousands of Irish nationalists between 1969 and 1994 in the occupied counties. Did it ever occur to you that many Irish people would have a damn good reason for opposing the wearing of a poppy ?? It is'nt surprising that the families and communities that suffered under the terrorism of the british forces for 25 years might have anything but respect for the british army. I wonder will many people be wearing them in the middle east as a mark of respect for the british lads bringing peace to Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. But maybe it's because the middle eastern countries that have been victim's of british justice have, like the Irish, a different view of your conceited british opinion on everything.

After all, there is a world outside "the nation that still pumps itself up on the conceit that it fought the might of Nazi Germany alone" you know Fred.

I do like it when you prove a point for me.

Reliable as ever.

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I do like it when you prove a point for me.

Reliable as ever.

Glad to set you straight - as usual . Your the one who introduced the " negative stereotypes "..... " there are many people in Ireland who don't know there is a world outside of Irelands struggle under British rule".

Erin Go Brath

Goldenquick wrote: »

It's a mark of respect to those who died in past wars. ^5's .

I wear mine with pride when I can get one, but indeed there is the old country ways of "what are ya wearin' that for, shure n it's only for the English wans to be wearing", :rolleyes:

Old country ways, wtf Wish I was young and trendy like you.
Wearing the poppy is showing support for the black and tans, and that ilk. Hardly surprising its contentious, considering all thats gone before.

Remember Irelands war dead by all means, but there should be another symbol besides the poppy. The shamrock I think someone suggested before. That'd be a nice symbol to represent Irelands fallen in the World Wars.

SpitfireIV

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Wearing the poppy is showing support for the black and tans, and that ilk.

An example of the 'old country ways' Goldenquick is referring to I think :rolleyes:

If ye dont like the poppy, or the idea of it, then dont wear or buy one, simple as. But let those who choose to wear one and remember the many who fell in the world wars do so, its there business, there prefrence, there choice and not a thing wrong with it either.

Mrs. MacGyver

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Old country ways, wtf Wish I was young and trendy like you.
Wearing the poppy is showing support for the black and tans, and that ilk. Hardly surprising its contentious, considering all thats gone before.

Remember Irelands war dead by all means, but there should be another symbol besides the poppy. The shamrock I think someone suggested before. That'd be a nice symbol to represent Irelands fallen in the World Wars.

That is absolutely ridicolus! That is a totally negative standpoint.
Its a symbol of triumph over adversity.The poppies are worn because in World War One the Western Front contained in the soil thousands of poppy seeds, all lying dormant. They would have lain there for years more, but the battles being fought there churned up the soil so much that the poppies bloomed like never before. The most famous bloom of poppies in the war was in Ypres, a town in Flanders, Belgium, which was crucial to the Allied defence. There were three battles there, but it was the second, which was calamitous to the allies since it heralded the first use of the new chlorine gas the Germans were experimenting with, which brought forth the poppies in greatest abundance, and inspired the Canadian soldier, Major John McCrae, to write his most famous poem. This, in turn, inspired the British Legion to adopt the poppy as their emblem.

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

John McCrae (1872 - 1918)
The American Moira Michael from Georgia, was the first person to wear a poppy in remembrance. In reply to McCrae's poem, she wrote a poem entitled 'We shall keep the faith' which includes the lines:

And now the Torch and Poppy Red
We wear in honor of our dead.
She bought some poppies, wore one, and sold the others, raising money for ex-servicemen. Her colleague, French YMCA Secretary Madame Guerin, took up the idea and made artificial poppies for war orphans. It caught on.

In November 1921, the British Legion and Austrian Returned Sailor's and Soldier's League sold them for the first time.

Below is a hyperlink as to how the Poppy apeal can help modern victims of war.
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2007/10/28/saved-by-the-poppy-98487-20020045/

See the folowing from the Canadian War Museum's Website:
The Poppy, Symbol of Remembrance

The first Remembrance Day poppyThe adoption of the poppy as a symbol of remembrance has international origins. The first person to use it this way was Moina Michael, a member of the staff of the American Overseas YMCA in the last year of the war. Michael read McCrae's poem and was so moved that she composed one of her own in response. She recalled later: "In a high moment of white resolve, I pledged to keep the faith and always to wear a red poppy of Flanders Fields as a sign of remembrance and the emblem of 'keeping the faith with all who died.'"

Consequently, she led a successful campaign to have the American Legion recognize the poppy as the official symbol of remembrance in April 1920. At the same time, Madame Anne Guerin, of France, inspired both by McCrae's poem and by Moina Michael's example, also became a vigorous advocate of the poppy as the symbol of remembrance for war dead. Her own organization, the American and French Children's League, sold cloth copies of the flower to help raise money to re-establish war-devastated areas in Europe.

In 1921, Guerin travelled to Britain and Canada on behalf of the poppy and convinced both the recently formed British Legion and the Canadian Great War Veterans Association (a predecessor of the Canadian Legion) to adopt the poppy as their symbol of remembrance as well. The first 'Poppy Day' in both countries occurred on 11 November 1921. The Returned Soldiers League in Australia adopted the poppy as its symbol of remembrance the same year.

For the first year, these artificial poppies were bought from Guerin's organization in France. By 1922, however, the various countries had started manufacturing them at home. In Canada, they were made by Vetcraft shops, run by the Department of Soldiers Civil Re-establishment and staffed by disabled soldiers. After its formation in 1925, the Canadian Legion (known as the Royal Canadian Legion since 1959) has run the poppy campaign in Canada.

An early edition of the Legion's magazine, The Legionary, explained the significance of buying poppies made by Vetcraft, as opposed to commercially available copies, as follows: "The disabled veterans in Vetcraft and Red Cross workshops are creating true memorials, while a poppy replica produced under ordinary commercial competitive conditions is nothing more nor less than an artificial flower."

The artificial poppy continues to flourish as the symbol of remembrance in the week leading up to the official commemorations on November 11. Today, millions of Canadians wear the bright red emblem to remember and honour the many thousands of their fellow Canadians who have died in war.

europerson

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Wearing the poppy is showing support for the black and tans

I really fail to see how.

Dr Strange

As the thread is titled Rememberance Day I thought I just let those who are interested know that the German National Day of Mourning (Volkstrauertag) falls this year on Sunday, 18th of November.

A wreath-laying ceremony for the victims (all sides, military or civilian) of both World Wars will be held on that day at the German Military Cemetery in Glencree, Co. Wicklow. It wil start in the Glencree Centre for Reconciliation, which is just across the road from the cemetery, in the church with an ecumenical service followed by wreath-laying ceremony at the Hall of Memory on the cemetery. The German Embassy organises this event every year together with the Glencree Centre for Reconciliation. The German War Graves Commission also takes part and lays a wreath as well as the British Legion and any private or public person who choose to do so.

A talk will follow the ceremony in the Centre.

The whole event starts at 11.30 am and usually takes approximately 2-3 hours.

For more information on the cemetery and events you can always contact me.

Best,

Preusse

Erin Go Brath

@croppyboy, mrs mcgyver, europerson


I should have put it clearer. The poppy is a symbol of Britains war efforts, which obviously includes the black and tans in the WoI. Now I know its a bit of a subjective one, some people see absolutely no problem, but many do. I for one, while I have respect for Irelands War dead would certainly never wear the poppy to commemorate them. I believe their should be an Irish symbol, like the shamrock etc which should be incorporated as the symbol to represent our dead in these wars.

FiSe

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

@croppyboy, mrs mcgyver, europerson


I should have put it clearer. The poppy is a symbol of Britains war efforts, which obviously includes the black and tans in the WoI. Now I know its a bit of a subjective one, some people see absolutely no problem, but many do. I for one, while I have respect for Irelands War dead would certainly never wear the poppy to commemorate them. I believe their should be an Irish symbol, like the shamrock etc which should be incorporated as the symbol to represent our dead in these wars.

Ireland was part of the UK during first war - and some time after, I think, but I might be wrong...

But some good points here, we have tricolour, so there's no stopping to wear it and to hang the flags high, let's say during month of May?
How that would be for the nation, wonder?

And what about poppy with tricolour?

europerson

I personally don't see the poppy as a British symbol. I don't know if people know why the poppy is used as a symbol of remembrance. After WWI, the barren battlefields, particularly around Flanders, were covered with poppies. Poppies grow where soil has been disturbed: we can still see that nowadays, when poppies grow alongside major road developments, for example. In that way, a symbol of "the battlefield" doesn't give off a British vibe: it's just a way of remembering all those who died. Of course, people tend to attach a sense of patriotism to that, as is the case during and after any war.

Erin Go Brath

We got a lot of poppy lovers in here I see.

I like the poem mrs mcgyver, and I can see the nature of its use as a symbol. Despite that its still going to be a contentious symbol because of it being associated with them lot. I know theres quite a few people who wouldn't wear it for said reason. Is it not a better idea to have a symbol that everyone can agree on? Whats wrong with the shamrock idea anyway? Any other ideas of a happy compromise? A green poppy if such a thing existed would be ok I guess if yous are that keen on the poppy. Dying poppies green for Irish War Commemorations, might take off. :cool: