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Passport needed to go to UK from 2009?

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    #62
    jlang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭jlang


    I've no real problem with an ID card - apart from the obvious not wanting to carry it when swimming or jogging, etc. My wallet has a blood donor card, drug payment scheme card, [SIZE=-1]European Health Insurance Card, driving license, RSI number card and more and if one card can replace the need for all that, I'm for it. [/SIZE]Although I presume there'd be a charge to get or renew or replace it, and that would be not nice.


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    #63
    extragon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭extragon


    In France - where I've lived for years - every citizen has an ID card but there's no legal requirement to carry it. If you're stopped by the police you can be brought in, to verify your identity, that's all. Never heard of it happening, except to rioters. I've long ago stopped carrying my passport, but wish I had something to fit in my wallet, for travel in the EU, - instead of a book of useless pages for stamping visas.

    re. the CTA. If this goes ahead, Ireland, as a small territory surrounded by passport controls will be a bit like Albania, and an anomaly in Europe. Alternatively, Ireland could hand over control of visa policy etc. to the UK - and stay within the e border. Joining Schengen would be less of an assault on sovereignty IMO. Even Iceland has joined, and Malta is due to. It is not just about practicalities, it's about politics, how Ireland is viewed in other countries, and how it wishes to view its self.


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    #64
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Even Iceland has joined, and Malta is due to. It is not just about practicalities, it's about politics, how Ireland is viewed in other countries, and how it wishes to view its self.

    All very fine, but in Ireland the northern part of the country is under the control of the UK. As it views itself, persons in this part of the country are members of the Irish nation and there is no wish to impose passport controls within Ireland, so politics doesn't suit it. Practicalities don't suit either as Schengen is largely about the free movement across land borders, something that would not be advanced by Ireland joining Schengen without the UK.


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    #65
    extragon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭extragon


    I agree about the border, but I think Ireland could have a policy in favour of joining Schengen, when possible. There is politics behind the deliberate distancing by the government from the European norm. ( Didn't Lenehan say something in the Dail about Ireland being in "fortress Britain and Ireland.")

    A policy in favour of Schengen could encourage interesting political developments in NI. There are some countries, in Asia, for example that have different visa policies for different provinces, and internal passport controls. China and Hong Kong, obviously, also, I think, Malaysia. Why couldn't NI join Schengen, at some point in the future, without the rest of the UK?


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    #66
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Irish govt. ID requirement since 1997 is just that I thought - an ID requirement. I've flown to the UK on my driving licence before; and it only applies to air travel anyway; I mostly go by boat - last 'passport' check I had was an Irish Rail lad asking me "You Irish?" "Yeah" in Rosslare!


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    #67
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    MYOB wrote: »
    last 'passport' check I had was an Irish Rail lad asking me "You Irish?" "Yeah" in Rosslare!

    Why was an Irish Rail employee asking if you were Irish...?


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    #68
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    Dub13 wrote: »
    Why was an Irish Rail employee asking if you were Irish...?

    Because if you are not Irish or British, you do need to have a passport to travel between ROI and UK. Obviously this is not enforced along the border, and probably isn't checked a great deal on other routes either.


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    #69
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    Richard wrote: »
    Because if you are not Irish or British, you do need to have a passport to travel between ROI and UK. Obviously this is not enforced along the border, and probably isn't checked a great deal on other routes either.

    I am well aware of that,I am asking why an Irish Rail employee doing what seems to be a Police/Customs job.


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    #70
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dub13 wrote: »
    I am well aware of that,I am asking why an Irish Rail employee doing what seems to be a Police/Customs job.

    Because Irish Rail own the port (it was Rosslare), and the only person in the "big plastic tubey thing" that comes off the boat at that time happened to be an Irish Rail staff member. And I don't necessarily look "Irish", being Lurch-like and having (dyed, admittedly) blond hair he could have thought I was Finnish or something :p


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    #71
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    I was aware Irish Rail own the port but had no idea they ever did any kind of checks on people coming in or out of the country.


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    #72
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Personally I have no problems with an ID card, BUT being compelled by law to have it with me at all times NO!

    I would have it to prove identity when necessary, i.e at taking driving tests (topical;)) banks or whatever when opening a new account or membership, instead of a passport etc. I don't like the idea of needing it with it me at all times (unless it combines as a cash card :cool:)

    Why would you need an ID card to do a driving test?
    last week ( anyway) you needed to show a valid provisional driving license for the category in which you wanted to be tested.

    How do people manage to open bank accounts at the minute with no ID card?

    extragon, your post implies in France you can be arrested for not carrying the ID card. This is a very serious impingement on a citizens liberty.


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    #73
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dub13 wrote: »
    I was aware Irish Rail own the port but had no idea they ever did any kind of checks on people coming in or out of the country.

    I'd guess it was some jobsworth having a sudden sense of civic duty, tbh. He couldn't do anything if I said no other than see if he could run faster than me to find a copper/customs officer...

    Come to think of it, Stena let me on the other end with a ticket without my full name on it (had been printed as just my surname for some reason), I think that'll be banned under new regs too..


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    #74
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Why would you need an ID card to do a driving test?
    last week ( anyway) you needed to show a valid provisional driving license for the category in which you wanted to be tested.

    Provisional license is ID.
    Carawaystick wrote: »
    How do people manage to open bank accounts at the minute with no ID card?

    With extreme difficulty ;) I'm not even sure if it is possible anymore to get a bank account without some form of ID. You'd probably have to apply for a passport first.
    Carawaystick wrote: »
    extragon, your post implies in France you can be arrested for not carrying the ID card. This is a very serious impingement on a citizens liberty.

    Yup, apparently you can be arrested for vagrancy if you don't have it with you. Apparently it was brought in as an anti-vagabond law. I suppose if we wanted to "do something about" our traveller population, then the ID cards would come in handy.


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Why would you need an ID card to do a driving test?
    last week ( anyway) you needed to show a valid provisional driving license for the category in which you wanted to be tested.

    .


    My license is nearly 30 years old. ;) (no photo)


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    #76
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Stark wrote: »
    Provisional license is ID.



    With extreme difficulty ;) I'm not even sure if it is possible anymore to get a bank account without some form of ID. You'd probably have to apply for a passport first.



    Yup, apparently you can be arrested for vagrancy if you don't have it with you. Apparently it was brought in as an anti-vagabond law. I suppose if we wanted to "do something about" our traveller population, then the ID cards would come in handy.

    yep, we could have "one way" id cards ...that let you out the country but not back in.......


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    #77
    c4cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭c4cat


    Well if you enter the UK from mainland EU or from outside the EU now your passport is scanned and an image is recorded. So If one wants to get into the UK without going through any passport control, Then fly into Dub with a conex flight to UK on ryanair with a internet priority check and go boarding pass which you print off yourself at home

    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    According to today's Irish Times (Oct 24) Irish citizens will need a passport to enter the UK from 2009 as they are implementing an electronic border control system from that date. The common travel area will cease between the two countries. The Irish government has also decided to implement a similar system at some stage. However the RoI/NI border will remain as it is due to the supposed impossibility of policing such schemes on it.

    See here aswell:

    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/1024/1193158824220.html


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    #78
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    Hold on.
    Are they are also saying that someone in Northern Ireland will need a full bona fide passport to travel to another part of the UK and vice versa?

    The unionists will love that!!!

    Ian Paisley obviously has the same interpretation of what was being said in the media as myself.
    Quote is taken from a letter he wrote to PM Brown as reported in today's Irish Times
    "I would ask for reassurance from you that the [ British] government will not bring forward any legislation which would require citizens from one part of the United Kingdom to present a passport in order to travel to another part of the UK," he told Mr Brown

    Source and full article: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/1108/1194222854490.html


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The way things are going it's only a matter of time before a passport is needed to use any form of public transport that crosses from one place to another via a sea/air crossing.

    Physical boundaries are much easier to manage than political ones.


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