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Passport needed to go to UK from 2009?

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    #32
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #33
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    The Auld N54 would introduce problems if there was to be real immigration/passport control at the border. I heard some hairy stories of the Air corps choppering in cops to do checks back in the day - no way by road without going through one of the 6 counties...

    For us to join schengen would mean every single person in Ireland would have to carry ID when in public all the time and a complete change to the presumption of innocence, where you could be criminally punished for not having ID. No further steps to a gestapo country please EC NO 1546/2006 is bad enough.


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    #34
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    I'd welcome a seperate border control for the whole island, and it would make a lot of sense.

    The border isn't going to be re-erected as in the past. You'd have people taking pops at it and it would be a complete waste of money with no return as it wouldn't even have historic protectionist customs function.

    If there is an all-Ireland border, then Ireland can stay ID-card free indefinately, without having to worry about policies in other countries, ie Britain in particular.

    It could also reduce the need for shared information between both countries in some instances.

    Similarly, overtime it could also bring some order to many problems, and might help enforce the seperateness of the entire island internationally, something which would help in agriculture as an example.

    Skip forward a few steps and it could allow, or at least give the six counties that space needed to reduce corporation tax without "regional precedent" argument used in Britain.

    That could also facilitate longer term a change in taxation rates on fuel which facilitate the border fuel smuggling industry.

    I say go for it, Gordon - it's worth a flash of the passport when visiting from Ireland.


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    #35
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    Navan Junction wrote: »
    It seems that the whole thing merely reflects a redefinition of their borders to a degree.

    I'm not sure the Unionist population of NI would agree with your use of the word 'merely' :eek:

    And your points in the post immediately above, while all true, and generally supported by unionists, would, if associated with the 'mere' redefinition of borders, be seen as a rather slippery slope.


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    #36
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    BendiBus wrote: »
    a rather slippery slope.

    Hmmm, maybe. But in reality, the current set-up is a bit of a mess anyway.

    Flag waving aside, the reality is that geographically and in many other respects north and south are two parts of a single whole.

    We work better together than against each other. And this island would function better as a unit in these areas than trying to work against a natural border that could scarcely be better defined in a geographic sense anywhere else in the world.

    Unionists know that, but with a few recent exceptions rarely admit it in public. As the song goes, we are entirely surrounded by water. And that is a geographic reality which is more compelling than any geographic labels that are dreamt up to hide that fact.

    We need not just to live with it but to use this island's real border to the entire island's advantage. And realistically that is something that all communities here can recognise, though it may be problematic on an emotional level for some


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    #37
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    And as if by magic,just to show Mr Lenihan just how nonsensical all of this stuff is without Full and Proper implimentation procedures,who should show up last Monday on Sir Thomas Grey`s statue opposite Easons of O Connell St....Yes...You`ve guesssed it......The core elements of the "Original (and best) M50 Roundabout Roma Troupe" :)

    Obviously fresh in and jet lagged from the journey,there was a great amount of Halooing,waving and much flashing of Golden smiles from the Street`s Early Shift Roma Ladies as the returnees bade all and sundry a hearty welcome....

    Bio Metrics and Iris Recognition my brown backside sez Ioan and Maria Eleana o Mhùirichu..... :) :eek: :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #38
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Feck, I knew I should have said I was J Bourne when last using Rail and Sail back from London, probably missed my last chance... for which I at least have no recall of showing my passport or any ID.

    The Labour leader put out a good question/statement in the Dail: will it be the case where you can go to GB by ferry vie NI without a passport, but you'll need one when going direct from Dublin to Holyhead?
    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Really is a nothing story.

    :confused:
    Navan Junction wrote: »
    I would have no problems flashing my Irish passport whilst visiting Britain - I always bring it with me anyway - realistically would you want to go abroad without it anyway?

    It's highly likely it won't be a matter or flashing it, but rather having it scanned.
    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Funny that, I was watching the Bert on the Dail report program on RTE last night and he said pretty much what the Irish Times did in their front page story.
    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    The change is you'll need a passport while currently you don't (airline requirements aside).


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    #39
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,126 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Bit of a pain, I have never used my passport for travelling by air or ferry between Britain & Ireland. I have always used my photographic driving licence. I did not renew my passport 3 years ago as I do not go on holiday outside of Britain & Ireland. I will now have to give the Government the money to get one and keep renewing it.

    Big change that


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    #40
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #41
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,126 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Obviously not very good at enforcing it then as I have never been asked to produce my passport when travelling between Britain & Ireland :confused:


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    #42
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #43
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    monument wrote: »
    It's highly likely it won't be a matter or flashing it, but rather having it scanned.

    OK, a flash of the scanner!

    :)


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    #44
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    Madam, - The main front-page report in your edition of October 24th suggests that it has been possible to travel between Britain and Ireland without any identity document since 1922. Your political editor has obviously not tried to enter the State from Great Britain through Dublin or Cork airports in the past ten years. All passengers arriving at those airports from Britain, although they may sometimes start in a channel designated "Arrivals from United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Channel Islands" end up at passport control and are asked for a passport in the same way as any other international arrival.

    On several occasions I have protested the existence of the Common Travel Area, only to be told that it is now Irish Government policy to check the identity of everyone arriving at those airports on an "international" flight. You will be aware that arrivals at British airports from Ireland are treated as "domestic" and that there is no systematic identity check or passport control. There are occasional checks by the police, not immigration officials, under the Terrorism Act, on the identity of individuals arriving from Northern Ireland and the Republic.

    In answer to a parliamentary question in the House of Commons on March 21st this year, I was told by the then Minister of State for the Home Office, Liam Byrne, that the Irish Government informed the UK Government on June 28th, 1997 that immigration checks on passengers arriving from the UK would take place at Irish airports from that date.

    The Common Travel Area for air passengers arriving in Ireland has been dead for 10 years. I regret the passing of that historic bond between our two nations. Is it beyond the electronic wit of man to use the opportunity of the collection of airline passenger data under the new "e-borders" regime to again return to the free movement of people between the two nations? - Yours, etc,

    ROBERT WALTER MP,

    House of Commons,

    London SW.

    ****

    Madam, - The ending of the Common Travel Area between Ireland and Britain, which has existed since the foundation of the State in 1922, will mean very little change to a situation which has existed de facto for many years at British and Irish airports. I cannot remember the last time I wasn't asked for my passport at the point of departure in Britain and again at subsequent arrival in Dublin. - Yours, etc,

    PATRICK O'BYRNE,

    Shandon Crescent,

    Phibsborough,

    Dublin 7.


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    #45
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,126 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Those 2 letters do not tally with my experience and I have travelled loads of times over the last 10 years.

    I think the 2nd letter is referring to the fact the he had no ID other than his passport when checking in for his flight!!


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    #46
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    I think that MP is also forgetting about exclsuion orders which the British government was fond of serving at one time


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    #47
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #48
    a bientot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭a bientot


    Important dates: 6 November (Bruxelles) and 21 December (Schengen Day for Nine)
    Here below info on government minister's contribution to the issue on RTE's SaturdayView today...
    Poor an t-Uasal O Cuiv attempted to reassure the Irish population that even though their passports would be scanned before entering the Great Britain part of the U.K. thus, de facto, requesting permission to enter.... no one (no Irish person?) would be refused permission to enter G.B. having sought permission before leaving Ireland on a carrier to G.B.
    This right was sacrosanct, apparently. How strange.
    Schengen rejects to-Spain individual departures at Dublin airport regularly........

    This proves the point on why people have to produce passports for government border police in the first place. How can one be given/refused permission if one has not requested permission to do so in the first place.....

    There was some waffle on ‘the most unique land border in the world’..........no one mentioned Cyprus nor the huge border at the edge of eastern Schengen......nor the huge border around Switzerland until it joins Schengen in October 2008 while maintaining customs and excise controls, of course.
    An t-Uasal O Cuiv also failed to mention that the state has maintained ownership of the land where the old customs posts were so they can be used as Schengen (or the unimaginable alternative) Immigration posts.

    Possibly due to time restrictions (that crazy driving license issue........) Schengen, per se, did not get a mention from the minister...

    If we were in Schengen we'd be in 27 countries while still being in Ireland.
    Just think of that.......the alternative should be no no no.


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    #49
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    a bientot wrote: »
    If we were in Schengen we'd be in 27 countries while still being in Ireland.
    Just think of that.......the alternative should be no no no.
    I'd agree with that - I could see this country becoming a gangsta's hide-away, similar to that which has happened with sex-offenders that relocated here from the UK, if we became part of Schengen.

    Now if we had a pourous border where attempts at monotoring who was moving here was impossible, then fair enough.

    But we do have a natural border in our coastline and a border which is actually manageable.

    And if the six-county area comes in on it, then it really is feasible


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    #50
    jlang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭jlang


    Just for kicks, I've always made a point of only showing my boarding card at Dublin passport control when arriving from Britain. I've always had my passport in my pocket as I used it to check in earlier. Never had any issue. Similar when going the other way.


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    #51
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    If we are to believe that, then it's good news - a CTA that works like Schengen wouldn't force us through "passport control" on the way back from Britain.


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    #52
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Standing in passport control in Schiphol airport recently ,jeee what an expierence .You need a compass and a map finding your way around that place ....i just about made my flight


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    #53
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i got no prob with carrying a passport when travelling.....i do now...if im going by ferry and I get asked for id they always relax visibly when i give them my passport....i'm not up to no good, why should i worry about identifying myself?Happy to carry id 24/7 if necessary (do any way (driving license) if it slows up the skangers a bit...


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    #54
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    corktina wrote:
    Happy to carry id 24/7 if necessary (do any way (driving license) if it slows up the skangers a bit...

    So you're happy to be prosecuted if you leave the house and forget your wallet/jacket/purse/whatever you keep your ID in? And how on earth is an ID card meant to "slow up skangers"?


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    #55
    Navan Junction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    corktina wrote: »
    i got no prob with carrying a passport when travelling.....i do now...if im going by ferry and I get asked for id they always relax visibly when i give them my passport....i'm not up to no good, why should i worry about identifying myself?Happy to carry id 24/7 if necessary (do any way (driving license) if it slows up the skangers a bit...
    Hmmm. I'd be more than happy to show my passport leaving and arriving into the country but I'd be dead against ID cards.

    But why should I have to worry about carrying ID if I'm out for a run or a cycle, walking the dog or even nipping down to the shops for a pint of milk?

    Have an island-wide common travel area, end the one by all means between Britain and Ireland, but ID cards forget about.

    I'd see ending the CTA as one way of avoiding having pressure foisted on us to bring them in.

    After all it isn't this state that needs them.


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    #56
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Stark wrote: »
    So you're happy to be prosecuted if you leave the house and forget your wallet/jacket/purse/whatever you keep your ID in? And how on earth is an ID card meant to "slow up skangers"?


    by making it less easy for ne'er-do-wells to pass through borders, or idetifying wrond do-ers on the streets......obvious really isnt it?

    Not happy no, but responsible for my own failing....

    actually , the worry of forgetting to carry your card would be simply obviated by have an electronic implant soon after birth. If you aint doing no wrong, why would it worry you?


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    #57
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    corktina wrote: »
    actually , the worry of forgetting to carry your card would be simply obviated by have an electronic implant soon after birth. If you aint doing no wrong, why would it worry you?

    Are you serious....?:eek:

    You trust our/any Government enough to let them chip everybody at birth...?


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    #58
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    corktina wrote: »
    by making it less easy for ne'er-do-wells to pass through borders,

    Oh yeah, I know how to stop skangers from drinking behind my house, I'll check their passports when they go shopping for beer in Sainsbury's in Newry! That'll sort them out.
    corktina wrote: »
    or idetifying wrond do-ers on the streets......obvious really isnt it?

    So the ID cards will have "wrongdoer" written on them?
    corktina wrote: »
    Not happy no, but responsible for my own failing....

    Well you can have an ID card if you want. Like Navan Junction, I'd like to be able to go for a run, cycle or whatever without carrying a card with me, thank you very much.
    corktina wrote: »
    actually , the worry of forgetting to carry your card would be simply obviated by have an electronic implant soon after birth. If you aint doing no wrong, why would it worry you?

    There's a cancer risk from implanted RFID devices.

    And what Dub13 said.


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    #59
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    surely though the only people who would nt want to
    id themselves would be the ones with something to hide.If it helped bring down the crime rate,wouldnt it be making a better life for everyone, just at the small cost of carrying a card with you? COuld be very useful when on your run and someone mistakes you for a fleeing burglar or something.....

    No I'm not very serious about it at all, just dont have any valid reason not to carry id if im asked to...


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    #60
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    corktina wrote:
    If it helped bring down the crime rate,wouldnt it be making a better life for everyone

    I can't see how it would help bring down the crime rate or benefit people's quality of life in any way.
    corktina wrote:
    just at the small cost of carrying a card with you?

    I'd rather not be liable to be prosecuted just because I need to put out the rubbish and can't find my kennkart.
    corktina wrote:
    COuld be very useful when on your run and someone mistakes you for a fleeing burglar or something.....

    What land of fiction are you living in? :confused:


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Personally I have no problems with an ID card, BUT being compelled by law to have it with me at all times NO!

    I would have it to prove identity when necessary, i.e at taking driving tests (topical;)) banks or whatever when opening a new account or membership, instead of a passport etc. I don't like the idea of needing it with it me at all times (unless it combines as a cash card :cool:)


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