Passport needed to go to UK from 2009?

Mayo Exile

According to today's Irish Times (Oct 24) Irish citizens will need a passport to enter the UK from 2009 as they are implementing an electronic border control system from that date. The common travel area will cease between the two countries. The Irish government has also decided to implement a similar system at some stage. However the RoI/NI border will remain as it is due to the supposed impossibility of policing such schemes on it.

See here aswell:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/1024/1193158824220.html

Bluetonic

Really is a nothing story.

Gillo

Don't you need a passport to fly with most airlines anyway, so it's not really a big deal.

GerardKeating

Mayo Exile wrote: »

According to today's Irish Times (Oct 24) Irish citizens will need a passport to enter the UK from 2009 as they are implementing an electronic border control system from that date. The common travel area will cease between the two countries. The Irish government has also decided to implement a similar system at some stage. However the RoI/NI border will remain as it is due to the supposed impossibility of policing such schemes on it.

See here aswell:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/1024/1193158824220.html

With the ending of the common travel area, maybe they will go "Schengen" on us...

Navan Junction

Ah well

munchkin_utd

Hold on.
Are they are also saying that someone in Northern Ireland will need a full bona fide passport to travel to another part of the UK and vice versa?

From the article

The British e-border system will automatically require all air and sea passengers to be in possession of a valid passport to facilitate a journey within the Common Travel Area.

To get from NI to GB you must travel by air or ferry so a passport could be required.
The unionists will love that!!!

Dub13

gillo wrote: »

Don't you need a passport to fly with most airlines anyway, so it's not really a big deal.

Yes BUT...there are other ramification's,have you ever arrived into Gatwick Airport and seen the Q for passport controll...?it was great to head for the lane for flights from Ireland/other UK airports.This could save you a couple of hours.

steve-o

I think the media have got it wrong. My interpretation is this: The concept of a common travel area will remain, but with integrated border systems. I think the passport thing is because in most airports and ferryports it's too difficult/costly to separate arriving common area passengers from others. All air and sea passengers will need passports: that includes flights from Dublin to Shannon, Glasgow to London.

ardmacha

Are they are also saying that someone in Northern Ireland will need a full bona fide passport to travel to another part of the UK and vice versa?

I doubt if anyone is saying this. There was some talk of ID cards in Britain and they could bring in a requirement to have this particular form of photo ID when flying or travelling by boat. This ID would suffice for travel to Ireland also.

The concept of a common travel area will remain, but with integrated border systems.

There isn't much left of the common travel area if Irish and UK citizens have to have the same ID as everyone else. What would make the common travel area meaningful was if people from countries requiring visas had a common visa for the two jurisdictions, albeit they had to produce this visa when travelling from Britain to Ireland.

Stark

gillo wrote: »

Don't you need a passport to fly with most airlines anyway, so it's not really a big deal.

Aer Lingus and Ryanair both let you travel on a driver's license. Aer Arann lets you travel on several different forms of student ID.

Also you don't need passport if you take the ferry.

Victor

munchkin_utd wrote: »

To get from NI to GB you must travel by air or ferry so a passport could be required. The unionists will love that!!!

It has happened before, I think in the 1930s and during the war years.

grahamo

Mayo Exile wrote: »

According to today's Irish Times (Oct 24) Irish citizens will need a passport to enter the UK from 2009 as they are implementing an electronic border control system from that date. The common travel area will cease between the two countries. The Irish government has also decided to implement a similar system at some stage. However the RoI/NI border will remain as it is due to the supposed impossibility of policing such schemes on it.

See here aswell:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/1024/1193158824220.html

This should open the way for Ireland to join the Schengen area. If we join this we won't need passports to enter many western European countries so it won't be all bad!

grahamo

grahamo wrote: »

This should open the way for Ireland to join the Schengen area. If we join this we won't need passports to enter many western European countries so it won't be all bad!

If we joined Schengen and the UK didn't,then every road crossing from NI would be forced to have a passport control.

For political reasons that will never be allowed to happen.
The UK don't want to join schengen because it would mean ceding certain border control intracasies to the E.U and the Euro sceptics will never allow that.
Ergo We won't be joining schengen any time soon.

Steviemak

From what I gather all people in the UK will be required to carry an identity card (if resident longer than six months). Otherwise, a passport is needed. Does this mean that we will also be required to carry a passport in the north. Not for border control but as a means of identifying yourself if stopped by police etc.

ardmacha

I'd say the proposed identity card will be a can of worms for residents of the North, especially if it is going to declare your nationality. Leaving well enough alone might be the simplest thing, if no card was needed in the 6 counties through all of the troubles it should not be needed now. However, if this gets going there will have be to be some of Irish ID card.

BendiBus

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes BUT...there are other ramification's,have you ever arrived into Gatwick Airport and seen the Q for passport controll...?it was great to head for the lane for flights from Ireland/other UK airports.This could save you a couple of hours.

****! Never thought of that. I've seen some nightmare queues at passport control in Gatwick. The special exit for ROI passengers is very handy indeed.

Zoney

Bertie's statement about it as reported on Irish Times breaking news made it sound like there'd be passport control at the Northern Ireland border...

From the Irish Times story:

The ending of the Common Travel Area between Ireland and Britain will result in tighter Border controls between the Republic and Northern Ireland the Taoiseach told the Dail this morning.

Asked about the implications of this system for travel between the Republic and the North, Mr Ahern said "we will need further Border security controls".

Can't see that going down well, and it won't just be die-hard Republicans up in arms about it. Why should we lose the current level of freedom just because the UK is turning into a police state and the government here wishes to follow suit? If passport control wasn't needed at the border during the Troubles, why is it needed now just cause there are some other terrorists possibly crossing the border that pose less of a threat to either state than the IRA ever did?

EDIT:

Besides, if this is true and there will be passport control at the NI border, why can the Republic not now go ahead and join Schengen even if UK remains out?

Stark

Is there much advantage to us joining Schengen? I mean we've no land links with Europe, very few ferry links and the fascist security thespians at the airports will require passports anyway.

BendiBus

BendiBus wrote: »

****! Never thought of that. I've seen some nightmare queues at passport control in Gatwick. The special exit for ROI passengers is very handy indeed.

Theres a simple answer to that.
Put UK immigration control at Irish ports and airports to pre clear passengers for entry to GB.
There would have to be enough of them to keep the queues to a minimum given the traffic.
I'd say at least a 100 would do the job in Dublin airport for example.Theres job creation for ya.

Navan Junction

There is no way they'll put border checkpoints back on the border, don't worry about it. It just means you'll flash your passport when you arrive in Britain. There will be no implications for Ireland (other than if you happen to think you are still in Britain and are trying to make your way across the sea mistakenly thinking it is an internal trip).

I would have no problems flashing my Irish passport whilst visiting Britain - I always bring it with me anyway - realistically would you want to go abroad without it anyway?

Stark

It's not the flashing the passport that bothers people; it's the hours of potential queuing to flash the passport that bothers people.

Navan Junction

Stark wrote: »

It's not the flashing the passport that bothers people; it's the hours of potential queuing to flash the passport that bothers people.

Fair enough, but it's never really been an issue with me in all of the places I've gone to other than Britain - Spain, France, Holland, Italy, Belgium, Germany.

Never had any hassles - flashed it and straight through

You could always register for Iris .

Navan Junction

Cool - there ya go. No problems.

Zoney

OK, a clarification from the Taoiseach reported on breakingnews.ie

From the story:

Tighter passport controls between Ireland and the UK will not apply to the Republic's border with the North, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern confirmed today.

However, unionist representatives are concerned the introduction of a new electronic border control system for Britain could force citizens in the North to use a passport to travel from one part of the UK to another.

So, looks like an All-Ireland border control and a GB border control. "Concerned"? That is almost certainly understating it - surely due to Unionist/Northern concerns, this is no more workable than border controls on the NI border would be due to Irish concerns? Not to mention that it seems dodgy for any State to require its citizens to have a passport to travel between one part of it to another.

Navan Junction

It may actually be a positive development.

Zoney wrote: »

Not to mention that it seems dodgy for any State to require its citizens to have a passport to travel between one part of it to another.

Not really. It's not a visa, it's a requirment to show your passport.

It seems that the whole thing merely reflects a redefinition of their borders to a degree.

At the end of the day, geographically Britain is an island so organising their border on that basis makes sense.

It's a bold step, and they should be congratulated

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

parsi

Navan Junction wrote: »

Fair enough, but it's never really been an issue with me in all of the places I've gone to other than Britain - Spain, France, Holland, Italy, Belgium, Germany.

Never had any hassles - flashed it and straight through

Are you seriously saying that you've never been in a queue for passport control ?

In fairness there's a bloody queue in Dublin and that's coming from Cork !

Navan Junction

But isn't the common travel zone treaty up for renewal?

They already share information and have an agreed visa policy so what Lenihan said isn't really a change

Navan Junction

parsi wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that you've never been in a queue for passport control ?

In fairness there's a bloody queue in Dublin and that's coming from Cork !

Of course I have, and it has mainly been in Dublin.

But the queues move quickly, not like the departure queue in Dublin

The only bad queue I remember was in the US of A

fricatus

To me, it sounds like the whole idea wasn't particularly well thought through. It's like they said "let's secure Bwitain's borders to stop the tewwowists!" and ploughed ahead with this e-borders nonsense, before someone piped up "eh, what about Eyeh-land?"

If they're going to require passports for entry into the UK, then they have to check them at the NI-ROI border. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, someone (let's say a terrorist) could drive up the M1 from Dublin to Belfast International and fly over to Heathrow (on Aer Lingus ). Bingo! They're in the UK, without a passport check!

The other alternatives are:
- to require passports from people travelling from NI to GB (I can see the unionists loving that one: "But I'm Breddish!" - "Yeah, awright mate, show's yer pawsport, yeah?")
- to cooperate closely with the Irish authorities on maintaining the Common Travel Area, which would mean accepting our border controls on trust, as we would accept theirs. This seems like the only workable option (short of them "giving back the six").