Fee Paying Schools

FakeRedHead

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that you have so little faith in your child and feel he needs this 'extra help'.

It's not a lack of faith in him. He's five and had autism when he was born. He's now in what is termed 'recovery' from nearly all of his symptoms and at typical level academically but he still has an aversion to large numbers and noise.

Plus he learns better in a small group than a larger one.

There are all sorts of reasons why people choose a private school and classes with smaller numbers. I don't think we should beat parents with a stick for considering all the options and trying to choose the best fit for their child.

It's not about the 'private' element for many of us.
If my local public school had smaller classes he'd be there and I'd have an extra €3,000 per year shoe money.

Gizmodeon

No

I would send my kid to the Institute in a second!
I loved that school

nearly all of the people I knew in private schools were middle class kids
people will find a way to pay if they can,
but I do think it's unfair that not everyone can go to a private school
But I think that to make change is to actually do something about it
My first school was a local school
if there was something about a local school that needed fixing up or more books were needed, we'd fundraise it. Going the long route with politicians is a long term plan, but if you have a problem now, sort it out yourself.
otherwise blaming the "unfairness" of the situation will get you nowhere.
It's such a typical Irish thing, to complain but not lift a finger for the cause

FunkZ

No

When I have kids and the money I wouldn't mind sending them somewhere fee paying for fifth and sixth year.

HollyB

No

GDM wrote: »

I was just asking because I know a couple of guys who went to Clongowes and the only reason they got in (thier words not mine) is because their fathers and grandfathers were past pupils.

Don't those schools have a huge demand for places? I know that some private schools give priority to children of their alumni.

beanyb wrote: »

It is easier to get into private schools if you have some sort of connection to it. But it's not the only way in. You just need to apply for the school a good few years in advance of when your child will be going to it. Dont wait until the kid is in 6th class, because then you pretty much have no chance.

Not unless he or she is attending a feeder primary school. Putting names down at birth seems to be the best bet - although I have read about some parents picking a name and putting their embryo on a waiting list as soon as they find out the sex.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

If your kid needed an operation and another kid needed an operation, would you object to the other kid getting the surgery before your kid because they had the money to pay for private health care and you couldn't afford it?

Thankfully, I have health insurance, so when I've had surgery, it's been through private clinics and hospitals, but in the above scenario, my problem would be with poor public health provision, in which case I could hardly blame somebody who can opt for a private hospital for choosing to do so.

illiop

i go to a fee paying school and...well..teaching and facility wise it's pretty rubbish. The only reson i'd send my kids there is becaues it's a bording school and i'm glad i went to a bording school 'cause it made me more independent.
And it's not all posh...in fact there is about 3 people in my year i'd think of a posh. most people are actually farmers and stuff... my mother told me i wouldn't be going there only my great uncle died and left her money so she could pay off her mortgage. so it's not just for rich people

BigEejit

No

If I recall correctly the Irish government wanted to introduce school scoring in Ireland, but the teachers unions went mental .... did that ever happen? if not, how do people know if a particular school with similar facilities to others is getting better results?

In the UK, private schools are almost all superior to their state school counterparts. Due to the school scoring system over here the best state schools are all easily identified, this of course means that they are heavily oversubscribed (my sister for instance signed up her new born son for her local primary school because it was very popular due to good results)

I lived in SE London and the only school we could get our daughter into had poor results, not really bad, but a good bit below the better schools in the area (none of which would take her due to them being full, by the way the best results in the area were ALL private). Other than resigning myself to the likelyhood of my child not attaining what she is capable of, (as opposed to what her teachers and school facilities were capable of) my choices were either pay quite a lot of cash for a private place or move to a different area. We elected to move to a different area where the majority of the schools were getting much better results and managed to get our daughter into one of the best where she has really shone.

If I had no choice about moving and my choice was to leave my daughter attend a school with poor results or go private I would have put my daughter into a private school.

BigEejit

No

I am not going to name names, but a lot of posters in this thread appear to be making statements that portray them as people who are not parents. I would say that if you dont have kids you would not be able to understand a parents desire get the best education possible for their kids. Whether that is trying to get their kids into the best school they can, or just get them into a school without any chavs/scobes/knackers* to try to keep them on the straight and narrow.




* delete as applicable

JC 2K3

Undecided

But how do you know what the actual benefits of a private school is? Other kids' results mean nothing. Don't you agree that it's very likely that parents willing to pay so much money for a private school are also much more likely to be parents who will encourage their children in their education and expect a high standard of results from them? Are teachers and facilities etc. really that important to a child's education? Is it the fact that a school has these better teachers and better facilities responsible for the better results they produce? Or is it just that they are statistically more likely to have only children whose parents care more about their education and expect more from them, while children with less caring parents drag down the results of public schools? And as a member of society rather than a parent, can you not see that it is bad for society to have this societal rift between different classes of children?

Sangre

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Is it the fact that a school has these better teachers and better facilities responsible for the better results they produce?

Eh...the very definition of a 'better' teacher is one who is better at getting results from their students.

Davidius

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Sangre wrote: »

Eh...the very definition of a 'better' teacher is one who is better at getting results from their students.

If results is used in the context of grades then: lol, no. Just no.

BigEejit

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But how do you know what the actual benefits of a private school is? Other kids' results mean nothing.

What? You can assume that if a schools students have had very good results (or if they have been improving) for the last 3, 5 or more years then that streak will continue and your child will get an education that will allow them to get good exam results and go on to further education. How else do you suggest a parent is going to select the best school for their children? I'd really like to see an answer to that ..... do you suggest that we send our kids to the first school we see and hope for the best?

Don't you agree that it's very likely that parents willing to pay so much money for a private school are also much more likely to be parents who will encourage their children in their education and expect a high standard of results from them?

I would hope so, not all parents are equipped to help a child, or even have the time to do so, but the fact that they will pay a lot for their childs education shows that they want their child to succeed in life.

Are teachers and facilities etc. really that important to a child's education? Is it the fact that a school has these better teachers and better facilities responsible for the better results they produce?

Yes, without a doubt having the right teachers with the right tools will massively increase the likelyhood of a child getting good results. I went to a Christian Brothers where all but two of the teachers were marking time waiting for their pensions. The didnt give a damn, and it reflected in the students results (C's and D's mostly ordinary level). The two who did show an interest and cared had fantastic results (A's and B's maths/physics and english most doing higher level)

Or is it just that they are statistically more likely to have only children whose parents care more about their education and expect more from them, while children with less caring parents drag down the results of public schools?

Obviously people who spend large amounts of money on something expect a return. Children usually know that this money has been spent with the expectation that they will have good results (i.e. the return). State schools will have a proportion of people who will push their children to achieve and some who will not help their kids at all. This proportion is affected by many things, but having good teachers who get good results will naturally attract parents who want their children to achieve good results.

And as a member of society rather than a parent, can you not see that it is bad for society to have this societal rift between different classes of children?

Society can kiss my ass if it means that my child has to sit in a school where only 10% of students go on to third level education.

BigEejit

No

Davidius wrote: »

If results is used in the context of grades then: lol, no. Just no.

Explain yourself. If teachers get their students to get good results that is exactly what parents want. If you get some teachers that get good results (i.e. their students get good grades) in a school together then that school will attract parents who want their child to get good enough results to go on to third level.

JC 2K3

Undecided

Results aren't everything......

And it's extremely easy to get into third level. No one needs a private school to get into a good course.

Sonnenblumen

No

illiop wrote: »

i go to a fee paying school and...well..teaching and facility wise it's pretty rubbish. The only reson i'd send my kids there is becaues it's a bording school and i'm glad i went to a bording school 'cause it made me more independent.
And it's not all posh...in fact there is about 3 people in my year i'd think of a posh. most people are actually farmers and stuff... my mother told me i wouldn't be going there only my great uncle died and left her money so she could pay off her mortgage. so it's not just for rich people

Tip : Pay more attention during English classes!

BigEejit

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Results aren't everything......

And it's extremely easy to get into third level. No one needs a private school to get into a good course.

I'm not talking about the likes of arts degrees, I am talking about financial, medical and other professional qualifications that require far more than average results.

Sonnenblumen

No

Terry wrote: »

A guy who used to live behind me went to Clongowes.
He deals coke now.
I think he's trying to get enough money together to buy some class.

Reminds me of all those miserable '2 a penny' drink heads that keep telling everyone what's wrong with the world, but do nothing right about their own miserable sorry states.

Sangre

Davidius wrote: »

If results is used in the context of grades then: lol, no. Just no.

Not exclusively no but if you ignore their importance then you're living in a dream world.

Anyway, often by encouraging a student to love a subject and the learning process the results will improve anyway. I've never heard of a great teacher who was known for lowering the grades of his class.....like I mean LOL.

From what I've heard the likes of Clongowes and Blackrock are fierce selective and it helps a huge amount if you have a judge or barrister as a parent. Again from anecdotal evidence if you have money you can get into most of the rest no bother. I'm open to correction though.

A load of nonsene. What does actually help is having siblings in the school of having a parent/uncle who is an alumnus/

HollyB

No

BigEejit wrote: »

I would say that if you dont have kids you would not be able to understand a parents desire get the best education possible for their kids. Whether that is trying to get their kids into the best school they can, or just get them into a school without any chavs/scobes/knackers* to try to keep them on the straight and narrow.

I don't have children, but I think it would all be part of the same thing. It is a parent's responsibility to do what they think is best for their child, and in terms of securing them a good education, it's more than a question of just good teachers - although that is important. The environment of the school is also important, and the pupils at that school are a big part of that. There's no sense in pretending otherwise.

JC 2K3

Undecided

BigEejit wrote: »

I'm not talking about the likes of arts degrees, I am talking about financial, medical and other professional qualifications that require far more than average results.

I wasn't necessarily talking about arts degrees either, though it's rather snobbish of you to dismiss arts degrees like that.

Have a look at some prospecti for colleges and look at the points for the courses. Medicine, Law and a couple of others are fairly unique for having such high points, you'll get into most other things for under 500 points, and many good degrees(and yes I do mean GOOD degrees, points have NO bearing on how good a course is) are only 300-400 points.

greenkittie

No

In teaching, like any other job, there are good places to work and bad places to work. My parents are teachers and they have informed me that private schools are the better schools to work at. There is more competition to get jobs in these schools and only the better trained, higher achieving teachers will manage to get these jobs.

That, Dudess, is why private schools have better teachers.

Lizzykins

Undecided

greenkittie wrote: »

In teaching, like any other job, there are good places to work and bad places to work. My parents are teachers and they have informed me that private schools are the better schools to work at. There is more competition to get jobs in these schools and only the better trained, higher achieving teachers will manage to get these jobs.

That, Dudess, is why private schools have better teachers.

I don't believe that at ALL. A friend of mine went to a private school and according to her half the teachers weren't qualified at all! Quite a number were old dears-mothers of pupils-who had fallen on hard times and the nuns were trying to give them a break!

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Yeah, wouldn't there be more competition for public sector jobs given the security?

Sorry greenkittie but I don't buy that either. Why would private schools be the better places to work? Yes, I'm sure Blackrock College would be a better place to work than Jobstown Community School (because no doubt somebody will trot that one out) but then again, anywhere would be better than Jobstown Community School. And those are the ultimate two extremes. There's a vast variety of schools in between. Just like teachers wouldn't be enamoured with teaching in a school with a lot of scumbag pupils, I doubt they'd be falling over themselves to get into a school with a lot of spoilt, brazen brats either. My mate's mum used to teach in a private girls' school in Cork and was broken from a particular set of nasty bitches in there who I'm sure were a minority - well-off child does not mean spoilt brat, my family's well-off - but private schools do have that elitist element.

Slutmonkey57b

No

Lizzykins wrote: »

I don't believe that at ALL. A friend of mine went to a private school and according to her half the teachers weren't qualified at all! Quite a number were old dears-mothers of pupils-who had fallen on hard times and the nuns were trying to give them a break!

The nuns did plenty of other reprehensible stuff over the years that wasn't in the interests of parents, pupils, or schools. I'd hardly use them as an example. In fact, I doubt I'd use any private school in Ireland as an example.

damnyanks

No

I went to a fee paying school. 1 grand a year and was given brilliant sports facilities. It's not that much as its tax deductable. It was one of those "rugby schools" needless to say I met numerous people in life who have attended these schools and under on circumstance was anyone under the blief that it was for better results. Just better facilities.

Always found people from certain areas had a big chip on their shoulder about schools like the one I went too. Who cares

aliqueenb

No

yep yep i would but are there any irish speaking private schools i would prefer that....purely for the connections made by being in the private school, sad but what can you do!

Fad

thelastangryman wrote: »

Thats true the government does pay most of the teachers wages. The school may add on a bonus. Environment and working conditions? Explain please.

eh no not really, in my experience (first hand) rich kids are some of the most arrogant and badly behaved people i have had the misfortune to come into contact with

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Some rich kids.

aliqueenb

No

Dudess wrote: »

Some rich kids.

well said lol

Fad

Dudess wrote: »

Some rich kids.

apologies, but i meant MOST rich kids.
(obviously there are exceptions)


bear in mind that not everyone falls into that bracket, around a third come from a nice middle class backround, and theyre quite pleasant

Sam Spade

damnyanks wrote: »

I went to a fee paying school. 1 grand a year and was given brilliant sports facilities. It's not that much as its tax deductable.

What decade was that then............