Fee Paying Schools

ninty9er · 18-01-2008 1:25am

Undecided

Lizzykins wrote: »

If I had millions I wouldn't send my kids to private school in a fit. I read that indo article and it said some of the private schools like Gonzaga and Blackrock College are over subscribed and the rest are actively looking for kids.
My kids go to a community school in South Dublin. It has an Astroturf pitch and the most up to date equipment and facilities you can ask for. And as far as I know the max in each class is 30 or so. In practical classes it's much less.
As someone else said"how will the private school kids cope in the real world when shock horror they have to mix with the rest of us!
those.
And don't think the results are any great shakes either. If you are not bookish to some extent they don't offer practical subjects like Tech Graphics or Woodwork.

Totally agree. Never in a month of Sundays would I send any child, let alone my own if/when I have them to a fee paying school. I went to a Christian Brothers School, Our "voluntary contribution" was €150 per pupil or €250 per family, if you couldn't afford it, you didn't pay it (that was the VPs take, the principal was less lenient:D:D)

We had a €300,000 sand based full sized pitch, 2 tech drawing rooms, a music room, a lab for each of the 3 main sciences, an IT room with up-to-date computers(by the time I left, was a disaster when I started)

The only class of over 22 that I was in for the Leaving was Maths until the end of 5th year at which stage the pass classes started filling up.

The average points for my cohort was just below 530, and that's including in the average people who only did the Leaving to have a better chance of getting into a FÁS scheme or apprenticeship. These are real people too, they may be scumbags in part, but most of them are just ordinary decent people starting out in working class suburbs just like the current generation of Barristers etc... did.

Private schools are a complete and utter waste of money, they deliver results only by molesting life itself for people. The local one here REQUIRES all 6th year students to be on the premises on Saturday, for which there is a surcharge and after Easter they are REQUIRED to be on the premises on Sundays. The proprietor and his son are both barred from a number of nightclubs for having "removed" students who should have been at home studying on a Saturday night.

The likes of Blackrock, Rockwell are more "whole person education" based from what I've heard of them, but it still doesn't justify them.

cson · 18-01-2008 1:35am

Undecided

Is this thread still going?! :eek:

To be honest, I take a very simple view of things; The vast majority of Irish people have become very wealthy in recent years. The reason I think that many people spend money to send their kids to private schools is that they are of the rationale that "I'm spending X amount of money so it must be good". i.e. Money = Quality. Which is far removed from reality in most cases.

Sonnenblumen · 18-01-2008 1:50am

No

ninty9er wrote: »

Totally agree. Never in a month of Sundays would I send any child, let alone my own if/when I have them to a fee paying school. I went to a Christian Brothers School, Our "voluntary contribution" was €150 per pupil or €250 per family, if you couldn't afford it, you didn't pay it (that was the VPs take, the principal was less lenient:D:D)

We had a €300,000 sand based full sized pitch, 2 tech drawing rooms, a music room, a lab for each of the 3 main sciences, an IT room with up-to-date computers(by the time I left, was a disaster when I started)

The only class of over 22 that I was in for the Leaving was Maths until the end of 5th year at which stage the pass classes started filling up.

The average points for my cohort was just below 530, and that's including in the average people who only did the Leaving to have a better chance of getting into a FÁS scheme or apprenticeship. These are real people too, they may be scumbags in part, but most of them are just ordinary decent people starting out in working class suburbs just like the current generation of Barristers etc... did.

Private schools are a complete and utter waste of money, they deliver results only by molesting life itself for people. The local one here REQUIRES all 6th year students to be on the premises on Saturday, for which there is a surcharge and after Easter they are REQUIRED to be on the premises on Sundays. The proprietor and his son are both barred from a number of nightclubs for having "removed" students who should have been at home studying on a Saturday night.

The likes of Blackrock, Rockwell are more "whole person education" based from what I've heard of them, but it still doesn't justify them.

What's this new FF lecturing us on whats good and whats wasteful. Like your predecessors and certainly most certainly exemplified by the incumbents, when it comes to narrow thinking, molesting life etc etc it will be most difficult to surpass FF ideology. There is no justification for moiral bankruptcy, and you prove well the point, that even with money some will never know better. You're entitled to your opinion and much like your political aspirations, under scrutiny it will be found wanton.

cson · 18-01-2008 2:01am

Undecided

Are you Endaaaa
Are you Endaaaa
Are you Enda Kenny in disguise

mloc · 18-01-2008 3:14am

No

sigh. so many generalisations, its so sad.

do you really think whether a school is fee paying or not really impacts on a childs education that much? go to any college and after a year or two you'll notice, for the majority, what school you went to matters little.

cson · 18-01-2008 3:24am

Undecided

And thus ends our question and answer session with mloc.

Sonnenblumen · 20-01-2008 11:05pm

No

cson wrote: »

And thus ends our question and answer session with mloc.

You've been left behind.

HollyB · 23-01-2008 6:16pm

No

themont85 wrote: »

This goes for everything not just education. It is a parents right to get the best education for their child, just like it would be if their child was sick and needed better health care.

Exactly. It's the state's job to provide quality health care to everybody and an education to every child, but some people prefer to send their children to private schools, and to take out private health insurance to supplement those services - if your kid needed an operation, and you had health insurance, would you object to them going private and getting the surgery they needed faster?

Overheal · 23-01-2008 6:42pm

Hedge Schools FTW

Id be against if if the Catholic school I went to tried to drive their religion down my throat. But they didnt. It was just a school. And a good one. Voluntary payment is fine by me. And I would not complain about the govt paying any teacher: for the vast majority they all do a bang up job and tolerate a lot more than the average person.

EdgarAllenPoo · 01-02-2008 2:48pm

No

This thread is way too big for me to re read the whole thing but can someone tell me this - is there any way for a child to get into a fee paying school if their family hasn't been going to the school for generations and if so which schools are open to these students?

BlitzKrieg · 01-02-2008 3:00pm

No

s there any way for a child to get into a fee paying school if their family hasn't been going to the school for generations and if so which schools are open to these students?

???

I think that is an exagerated assumption

I went to a private school and neither of my parents or siblings went to it.

EdgarAllenPoo · 01-02-2008 3:10pm

No

I was just asking because I know a couple of guys who went to Clongowes and the only reason they got in (thier words not mine) is because their fathers and grandfathers were past pupils.

BlitzKrieg · 01-02-2008 3:16pm

No

Well I went to Columba's and all I had to do was an entry test and interview and I got accepted.

Maybe these guys you know are pretty much braindead meatheads and got in because of family regardless of their test results. I knew some people in my school who were like that.

Doesnt mean you cant get in because you have no family history with the school, just means you can get in if you do and you're an idiot?

beanyb · 01-02-2008 3:22pm

It is easier to get into private schools if you have some sort of connection to it. But it's not the only way in. You just need to apply for the school a good few years in advance of when your child will be going to it. Dont wait until the kid is in 6th class, because then you pretty much have no chance.

Lizzykins · 01-02-2008 4:25pm

Undecided

From what I've heard the likes of Clongowes and Blackrock are fierce selective and it helps a huge amount if you have a judge or barrister as a parent. Again from anecdotal evidence if you have money you can get into most of the rest no bother. I'm open to correction though.

Maximilian · 01-02-2008 5:56pm

Well I went to Blackrock and my parents were neither of those. Suggesting that there is some kind of elitest criterion is frankly ridiculous. What swung it for me when I entered the school was having a cousin already studying there.

Preference is actually given to kids of former students. I believe that at the moment, even that is no guarantee, such is the demand.

Oh and in order to stave off the impending apocolypse, Yore Ma*

*Does not actually refer to anyone's Ma. Provided for survival of Planet Earth Purposes only. Terms and condition may apply.

SerialComplaint · 01-02-2008 10:20pm

GDM wrote: »

I was just asking because I know a couple of guys who went to Clongowes and the only reason they got in (thier words not mine) is because their fathers and grandfathers were past pupils.

All schools (public & private) have an enrolment policy, and will provide details of this policy on request. In some cases, this policy will refer to family connections. Get the policy of the schools that you are interested in, and you will see where you stand.

Killaqueen!!! · 01-02-2008 10:57pm

Undecided

I go to a fee paying school and I certainly won't be sending my children there. Generally fee paying schools produce better LC results. You can't argue with the facts. But I'd like to think that it's down to the students and with a lot of hard work (or little work, depending on the student) I'm sure my children would be able to do just fine in the LC.

The reason I wouldn't send my children to a private school is the attitude. Posh, spoilt, snobby..these words all come to mind and it's not just namecalling. It's true. These students just cry to daddy and they get everything paid for. Anyone who wears a tracksuit is a 'skobe'. Even other fee paying schools like Tempelogue are considered 'poor' by these people. When I say these people I mean my classmates. I hope that when they leave school they'll realise they're out in the big bad world and mummy and daddy buy them success there.

As for facilities etc. the community school down the road from me has better sports facilities, better sports options (our school is a rugby/hockey one) and also more subject choices.

Terry · 01-02-2008 11:29pm

Undecided

A guy who used to live behind me went to Clongowes.
He deals coke now.
I think he's trying to get enough money together to buy some class.

FakeRedHead · 02-02-2008 12:09am

The local non-fee paying school has 30 in each primary class.

In my son's fee-paying school it's limited to 15.

That's why he's there and I'm paying my €3,000 per year.

Sure the teachers have the same training in both schools.

But he gets twice as much teaching in the fee-paying one.

Dudess · 02-02-2008 12:11am

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

"Twice as much teaching"? Are his classes two hours long or something?

FakeRedHead · 02-02-2008 12:16am

Maybe I should have explained the maths....

30 students as opposed to 15....

30 divided by 15 = 2.

Half as many pupils= twice as much time to spend with each.

Dudess · 02-02-2008 12:35am

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Yep. I wanted to go to one of the three main girls' schools in Cork city centre - two public, one private, whichever one was up to me. Choosing the private school would have been fine. I chose one of the public schools because it had the best facilities.

Anyway, I understood the maths part. The point though: do teachers really have one-on-one sessions with every single pupil?

Terry · 02-02-2008 12:47am

Undecided

FakeRedHead wrote: »

Maybe I should have explained the maths....

30 students as opposed to 15....

30 divided by 15 = 2.

Half as many pupils= twice as much time to spend with each.

Dudess is a mod here because she can differetiate between bull**** and proper posts.

She has proven herself to be a worthy contributor and is highly deserving of the task awarded to her.

If you do not like her moderating, then take it to feedback.
This is not the place for it.

As for your post regarding numbers, your child will not get twice as much attention.
You child's tests will just be marked twice as quickly and the homework looked over twice as quickly.

Other than that, a 40 minute class is a 40 minute class where everyone is taught at the same pace.

Dudess · 02-02-2008 12:54am

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

But I was in small classes for the elective subjects in leaving cert, and while it was pleasant and more personable, looking back, it still doesn't strike me as being a more effective environment than that of a 30-strong class.

I find it difficult to understand why so many people have selected "yes" in the poll. I also don't understand why a significant number have selected "no". Surely it depends on the individual school - private or public? I'm surprised there aren't more "undecideds". Instead, there are actually slightly more "Atari Jaguars" :rolleyes:

BlitzKrieg · 02-02-2008 12:56am

No

Anyway, I understood the maths part. The point though: do teachers really have one-on-one sessions with every single pupil?

Pretty much depends on the teacher and the pupil.

Is the teacher willing to give that extra time. completely up to them, doesnt matter if its private or public.

buuuut, my school did pay the teachers to perform tasks outside the classroom, so they are around alot more so it was much more easier to grab a few minutes of their time and get to know them on a more personal basis.

buuuuuuut even more that really depended on the student and honestly most teenagers wouldnt make the effort private or public.

So maybe the question people should be asking not if private school suits my child...does my child suit private school. I was very anti social in public school I had difficulty taking up activities after classes ended, I'd go home and spend the rest of the day at the tv or computer. Private school I guess forced me to open up and now I dont even have a tv in my apartment, and most people have met me, know I am very open and socialable.

And even though I went to a private school I wouldnt send my kid...the school has been driven into the ground since I left and all the elements that benefited me are no longer there.
So i'll wait until I actually have a kid and see what he/she says.

AckwelFoley · 02-02-2008 1:02am

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous that the State helps pay the salaries of teachers in these schools

Rich ppl pay taxes too, and are entitled to the same benefits.

Toto Wolfcastle · 02-02-2008 1:20am

FakeRedHead wrote: »

A pleasant environment (from a smaller class) is an advantage in schools, I think.

Smaller numbers in second level classes arise more from the number of elective subjects offered than the private/public status of a school.

With smaller numbers a teacher would see a child's work more often. There's only so many hours a teacher is prepared to spend on corrections, essay reading etc. In a class of 30 their work might be taken up once a week....in a class of 15 maybe twice.

Don't agree. I have classes of around 28 and a class of about 18. All these classes get equal treatment. When I set homework I make sure I check every one's, otherwise what is the point? In my class of 18 I have students who don't listen, who don't make an effort. I have the same in my classes of about 28. It depends on the student.

The school I went to was a public school but we had the best of facilities, fantastic teachers, and similar results (a lot of the time better) in terms of exam results to private schools.

I know people who went to private schools who are fantastic people, who worked hard in school and who went on to do very well.

I also know people, including a cousin of mine, who went to a private school and who are obnoxious, ignorant people who rely on daddy's money to get them through life.

If and when I have children, I will allow them to have a say in choosing the secondary school they go to, just like my parents did with me. I chose the well established school over the brand new one in my area because it was right for me. Just like people should choose public or private depending on what suits the student.

SerialComplaint · 02-02-2008 11:07am

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

Generally fee paying schools produce better LC results. You can't argue with the facts. But I'd like to think that it's down to the students and with a lot of hard work (or little work, depending on the student) I'm sure my children would be able to do just fine in the LC.

The fact that fee-paying schools have better LC results does not mean that fee-paying schools cause better LC results. There are so many other variables around parenting style, availability of PCs, education standard of parents, access to books, access to grinds etc etc.

JC 2K3 · 02-02-2008 11:09am

Undecided

HollyB wrote: »

Exactly. It's the state's job to provide quality health care to everybody and an education to every child, but some people prefer to send their children to private schools, and to take out private health insurance to supplement those services - if your kid needed an operation, and you had health insurance, would you object to them going private and getting the surgery they needed faster?

If your kid needed an operation and another kid needed an operation, would you object to the other kid getting the surgery before your kid because they had the money to pay for private health care and you couldn't afford it?

FakeRedHead wrote: »

The local non-fee paying school has 30 in each primary class.

In my son's fee-paying school it's limited to 15.

That's why he's there and I'm paying my €3,000 per year.

Sure the teachers have the same training in both schools.

But he gets twice as much teaching in the fee-paying one.

I'm sorry to hear that you have so little faith in your child and feel he needs this 'extra help'.

Fee Paying Schools

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