Another school shooting in the USA

Orange69

indough wrote: »

No it isn't rubbish. Refer to the posts of Manic Moran if you doubt me, he knows more on the subject than you ever will.

Have you ever actually fired a hand gun? be honest... The destructive power of a 9mm handgun is shocking, particularly at short range...

Tbh i don't believe you have a clue what you are on about... A "school shooter" armed with a knife might injure maybe one or two people before getting said knife shoved where the sun don't shine.. With a gun a person can easily kill dozens..

Reku

indough wrote: »

A knife to a blood-vital can disable a person in 10-60 seconds. A bullet to a non-nervous center vital area can disable a person from blood loss in a time range between 1 and 10 minutes. Blood loss from a knife attack will occur at a faster rate than that from a gunshot wound, especially if the knife is pulled out from the wound. Thats why if you're ever stabbed either intentionally or accidentally its important not to remove the blade if possible, as it seals the wound somewhat.

Biggest load of BS I've ever seen on these forums or anywhere else for that matter, a shot to the jugular will bleed just as profusely as a cut/stab. Throw in the variety of ammo (e.g. hollow point, shotgun, etc...) and you can easily match knives/swords for extremely lethal bleeds.

*Edit: Been trying to figure out how you could make such a daft comment and have managed to think of one way in which knives may fare better for causing a bleed out, if wielding a double edged knife (or even a decent sized, in terms of width of the blade, not length/thickness, single edged one) and keeping the blade perpendicular to your wrist, such that it enters the body with the flat forming a horizontal line you have increased odds of getting an artery since most of these run through the body in a vertical direction. Problem is that the grips on most knives are designed such that you would hold them with the blade running such that the stab wound would be a vertical one. As such there are only a few places where you've really great odds of hitting an artery (e.g. shoulder) and you can't actually get at the heart or lungs without tilting the blade to get through the ribcage.
Shot to the head however can stop the heart in 5 seconds... think I'd comfortably still go with the gun if I wanted to make a ambush style killing on someone.

Vegeta wrote: »

Actually no your just plain wrong there

I'm just letting you know what was in the sunday paper 2 weeks ago.

farohar wrote: »

But it will be a damned bit harder since according to articles in the Sunday times yesterday, many of the illegal guns are stolen from legal owners and as such are shotguns (230,000 people have licenced shotguns in Ireland) and rifles, others are probably modified replica guns, originating in Germany and then purchased from illegal sources in Britain. As such most of these are not designed for dealing with people in body armour (as per that shootout I refered to earlier in the thread).
At 230K people in the country holding licenced shotguns we already have too many firearms, as that's 1 in every 17 people (last year's census gave a population of 4,239,848) owning a legally obtained shotgun, throw in the rifles, handguns and illegal arms and I wouldn't be surprised if the number rose to 1 in every 10 people!:eek:

Manic Moran

Orange69 wrote: »

The destructive power of a 9mm handgun is shocking, particularly at short range...

Many Americans believe that if the calibre doesn't start with a '4', it's a wussy calibre. Possible exception given to .357 Magnum.

NTM

Orange69

Manic Moran wrote: »

Many Americans believe that if the calibre doesn't start with a '4', it's a wussy calibre. Possible exception given to .357 Magnum.

NTM

I know, but i didn't want to compare large caliber guns with knives as indough would have more ammo, as it were, for his ludicrous arguments..

When shooting in the US i would always rent a .357 Magnum revolver.. Really nice gun, very accurate too.. Its a pity we cant enjoy guns over here...

Manic Moran

Orange69 wrote: »

When shooting in the US i would always rent a .357 Magnum revolver.. Really nice gun, very accurate too.. Its a pity we cant enjoy guns over here...

Eh? A .357 Magnum's legal to own in Ireland. Hop over to the Shooting forum. Don't like the grip much myself, I prefer the semi-auto (at which point you might as well look at other calibres), but that might just be because I'm used to pistols which have an enforced straight grip.

NTM

Rovi

Manic Moran wrote: »

Eh? A .357 Magnum's legal to own in Ireland. Hop over to the Shooting forum. Don't like the grip much myself, I prefer the semi-auto (at which point you might as well look at other calibres), but that might just be because I'm used to pistols which have an enforced straight grip.

NTM

I find that my S&W 617 points like a dream, but it has the contoured Hogue grips on it. A few of the lads have 686's in .38/.357 with the same grip and I find them to be equally comfortable and easy to shoot.
I used a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Mag in Las Vegas recently, and I found it to be not so handy (still fun though! ); the Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt was nothing short of gorgeous, I can see why Cowboy Action is so popular.

MM, you owe it to yourself to get a wheelgun, they're just classy in their own special way.
There are lots of people making all sorts of aftermarket grips for revolvers, there's bound to be some combination of gun/grip that suits you.

Manic Moran

I'm afraid that there are several semi-autos on my purchase list (and one or two shotguns) which are much higher up on the priority scale.

At my current income/expenditure rate, my 'wish list' is going to last me a couple of years yet. At which point, probably, more good stuff will come out.

That said, have you seen this clip? Twelve shots from a six-shooter in three seconds. I can't shoot any of my semis that fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3fgduPdH_Y

NTM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

why do you want so many guns? it's not like you're going to be able to go 'round shooting people.

Rovi

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm afraid that there are several semi-autos on my purchase list (and one or two shotguns) which are much higher up on the priority scale.

At my current income/expenditure rate, my 'wish list' is going to last me a couple of years yet. At which point, probably, more good stuff will come out.

That said, have you seen this clip? Twelve shots from a six-shooter in three seconds. I can't shoot any of my semis that fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3fgduPdH_Y

NTM

Before I look, I'm going to guess: Jerry Miculek
Am I correct?

Go buy those guns and enjoy your freedoms, you can see the situation we're in over here. :rolleyes:


edited to add:
Yeah, I was right!

Manic Moran

Mordeth wrote: »

why do you want so many guns? it's not like you're going to be able to go 'round shooting people.

And I can't drive more than one car at once, but I own two. Why do people collect anything? (And my SIG is primarily for shooting people)

NTM

Terry

Mordeth wrote: »

why do you want so many guns? it's not like you're going to be able to go 'round shooting people.

Just in case the British invade. Duh.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I think they're more worried about the mexicans now

Manic Moran

Going back to "respect the blade", in Amsterdam on Sunday a chap walked into a police station and set about attacking the local constabulary (who are all armed) with a knife.

One cop was stabbed three times, once in the chest, twice in the back, perforating a pulmonary artery and a lung. The next cop was stabbed five times, including an artery in the head and the wind pipe.

Bilal Bajaka was then shot and killed. (Starting a bunch of riots over the next two days from his local community. Sometimes you just can't shoot someone without annoying people...)

NTM

Dave!

Did the officers die?

Manic Moran

Nope, apparently he used a small knife. They were listed as 'critical' when the reports came out, but as far as I know are recovering.

NTM

Dave!

That's good to hear.

Reku

So basically guy ambushed police with a knife but they were able to draw their guns and kill him while he failed to kill any of them.

This whole thing of guns being so useless if the attacker is within 21ft (6.4m) of you would also mean that in most circumstances in Ireland the police carrying firearms would be pointless since most stores/rooms are smaller than this and it'd only be on a deserted street that they are likely to have this kind of forewarning (assuming the potential attacker makes clear their intentions from such a distance, e.g. by throwing a bottle).

Manic Moran

farohar wrote: »

So basically guy ambushed police with a knife but they were able to draw their guns and kill him while he failed to kill any of them.

There are similar situations with respect to shooting incidents as well (Let's say he used a .22 rimfire instead). I think the operative point is that the guy had sufficient time to stab two cops, who presumably have some CQB training, eight times between them before getting shot. That they happened to survive is somewhat incidental and could just as easily have gone the other way. The location of the attack may also have contributed to their survival rate. You can't get a much faster response than being attacked in a police station, except being attacked at a hospital.

NTM

Terry

Manic Moran wrote: »

There are similar situations with respect to shooting incidents as well (Let's say he used a .22 rimfire instead). I think the operative point is that the guy had sufficient time to stab two cops, who presumably have some CQB training, eight times between them before getting shot. That they happened to survive is somewhat incidental and could just as easily have gone the other way. The location of the attack may also have contributed to their survival rate. You can't get a much faster response than being attacked in a police station, except being attacked at a hospital.

NTM

So, like Farohar said, guns are no use to cops in this situation.
Why arm them at all then?

Manic Moran

What if they're in a different situation?

I'm not saying guns are useless. I'm just addressing the fallacy earlier that knives are useless when the other guy has a gun.

NTM

leninbenjamin

Manic Moran wrote: »

What if they're in a different situation?

I'm not saying guns are useless. I'm just addressing the fallacy earlier that knives are useless when the other guy has a gun.

NTM

well... it really comes down to one simple premise doesn't it? a weapon is only as good as it's user. I've kinda found this debate a bit pointless meself...