FE1 Exam Thread (Mod Warning: NO ADS)

JCJCJC

tony28 wrote: »

someone else asked is 50% a pass, not only is it i think its the best kind of pass

Well said - this is a pass/fail exam, it's a hurdle, not a target. Anything above 50 represents wasted effort. When Nicky Lauda was F1 Champion driving for Ferrari, his philosophy was to win all his races going as slowly as possible, a millisecond in front of the next car was plenty. Same idea works here.

JC

Jev/N

dumbyearbook wrote: »

I think Constitutional, EU, and Tort are the harder ones so I'd give one or two of them a shot first to get them out of the way? I'd much prefer to be facing the 5 you have above if I knew I had one or more of these 3 done first.

Got my 8th passed yesterday happy out. Congrats to all those who've passed.

I'd agree with those three being the hardest but I wouldn't take any of the hard ones the first time around.

Personally, I think taking the easiest the first time is the best option. Your only goals then should be to get used to the format and approach to take and to get 3+ in the bag, rather than trying to get the harder ones out of the way.

I've seen many people try that method and get badly burned by having a dodgy paper of one of the easier ones (which can happen, no matter how much study/topics covered) and end up passing 2 or less, with it all being in vain.

I took 4 + 4 in two sittings taking the easy ones first and, luckily, never failed any.

JCJCJC

Hogzy wrote: »

Passed my first 3. Cannot believe i passed EU and failed Constitutional for the 2nd time. I thought if it were to pass anything it would be constitutional. 45% definitely deserves a recheck. Im shocked i failed it and passed the others.

Folks, I have 5 left to do.
Constitutional
Property
Tort
Equity
Company

Can i do 3 and then 2. What subjects would you recommend doing together? Ill defo be doing Constitutional again unless i pass on recheck. I am thinking of doing Property, Tory and equity and constitutional. Or would i be better doing 3 and then 2?

Hey Hogzy, delighted you got your three anyway, the game is on for you now. As far as I know, you can do 3 and two, I'm currently mulling over similar options. The choice is bust your ass between now and March, or take it a bit easier but maybe at the cost of a lost year in terms of starting an apprenticeship and doing the PPC. I'm kind-of thinking of a four-one strategy, so that if I drop any of the four in March I can re-attempt in the autumn.
Equity and property are reasonably complimentary - proprietary estoppel is cropping up in property so it would be worthwhile studying it for both. EU is my bug-bear, I am really beginning to hate it.

JC

dumbyearbook

Jev/N wrote: »

I'd agree with those three being the hardest but I wouldn't take any of the hard ones the first time around.

Personally, I think taking the easiest the first time is the best option. Your only goals then should be to get used to the format and approach to take and to get 3+ in the bag, rather than trying to get the harder ones out of the way.

I've seen many people try that method and get badly burned by having a dodgy paper of one of the easier ones (which can happen, no matter how much study/topics covered) and end up passing 2 or less, with it all being in vain.

I took 4 + 4 in two sittings taking the easy ones first and, luckily, never failed any.

You had some run on the second sitting so - Con. EU, Tort and Co. all in one go was it?

I still think splitting them up is the best bet I got 3+4 in this way though not sure how the new timetable works with all of this as I had my last run pre the changes.

Jev/N

dumbyearbook wrote: »

You had some run on the second sitting so - Con. EU, Tort and Co. all in one go was it?

I still think splitting them up is the best bet I got 3+4 in this way though not sure how the new timetable works with all of this as I had my last run pre the changes.

Haha, yeah it was fun alright! Did Cons, Tort, EU and Criminal for the second lot.

One handy thing was that they all had 1+ day gap between them, albeit unintentional on my part!

I think that the most important thing for these exams is learning time management and tactics in how to answer the questions efficiently. Breadth, as opposed to depth, of knowledge is also key. I felt that taking the easist ones first ensured these factors wouldn't mess up my chances of passing

Really depends on your own opinion though and whatever you feel comfortable with.

ilovelamp2000

tony28 wrote: »

Anyone in dublin 4 area still not got their results?its extremely frustrating and ive been to the local office but they have only got 20% of their post in-why cant the law society do this online. On another point anyone who is thinking of throwing the towel in dont, on my first two attempts i kept getting two out of four, on my third i went full time for all eight and ended up getting 7, only advice is start early and cover everything and someone else asked is 50% a pass, not only is it i think its the best kind of pass

I'm in South County Dublin and I haven't got my results either. Took the bother of going to the depot today to make sure the letter wasn't sitting there and it wasn't.

Maybe good things come to those who wait ......

dynamokev

heylila wrote: »

Congrats to everyone who got good results during the week Have a quick question, am going sitting the first of the exams in march...not working at the moment so am thinking of sitting 5 instead of 4. Just wondering do people think this is a bit too ambitious? Don't want to pay for 5 and only end up sitting four! Have a law degree and LLM if that makes any difference so am not new to law. Was thinking of sitting Criminal, Contract, Company, Equity and Property if anyone had thoughts/advice on this it would be great or would I be better sticking to four? Thanks guys!

Hey if you think you are up to studying 5, then I would say go for it. However FE1s are a different style exam and studying style I feel than any other exams I've done previously ... so I felt testing the water with four and ensuring I got four was the best policy for me. Just be sure if you do a 5th subject that the extra subject will not jeopardise your chances in any of the other four, then go for it.

As regards the picking of subjects:

People will say on here what subjects they found easy and difficult. But you must remember that is all subjective.

For example I have met as many people say tort is the easiest of the 8 and then equally as many say it was the toughest of the 8. Also I found company the easiest of the ones I did, however others say it was their nightmare subject. My advice for someone sitting your first set, is do the 4/5 you liked most in college or had most of an interest in. They will be the ones that will be easiest to start you into the process of the long days and weeks in the library ahead.


My second bit of advice is couple you personal favourites with the timetable.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/education/hbs/FE1%20dates.pdf

I found the hardest thing about the last sitting was having exams one day after another. The exam week is so physically and emotionally draining that it was extremely tough to come home from one exam, clear you're mind completely of everything you've learned for that and then re-fill it with another subject that you may not have looked at for over a week. I would say whatever about having exams back to back because thats almost inevitable, but ensure you don't pick a combination of 3 exams in a row as you will just be completely burnt out by the time the third exam arrives.

My final bit of advice is ensure you know something about everything and not everything about something. For example say with Contract, the way the exam paper mixes three to four topics in a problem question means you need to know every chapter, maybe not in unbelievable depth but still have a knowledge of all the main principles.

Hope this is of some benefit and good luck with starting out on the FE1 road!

JCJCJC

dynamokev wrote: »

For example say with Contract, the way the exam paper mixes three to four topics in a problem question means you need to know every chapter, maybe not in unbelievable depth but still have a knowledge of all the main principles.

I can't agree totally with that analysis of Contract. Each problem question on the March and Oct 2010 papers is exactly bang-on the fact pattern of a specific case. If you know the specific case you are home and dry - all you need mention is the topic it is famous for, eg Sowell v Potter = mistake as to identity, Thorner v Major - proprietary estoppel, Bannerman v White = term/representation/breach, Dakota v Wyeth - formation, and so on
I have just got a comfortable 63 in Contract on that approach, having failed in March with a less-focussed approach and no analysis. I did the essay on damages per Prof Robt. Clarke's own article, nothing else, that was my 5th question.

Know your cases. The examiner even gives loud clues about which case she wants - in the problem on Sowell v Potter, one of the character's names was Potter and she changed her name by deed poll per the original S v P.
So your answer, if you recognise the case. is "this fact pattern is identical in all material respects to JC v Hogzy. In that case, the significant issue was...and the Supreme Court found... " and you can't go wrong.

It's much easier to get the case right than to apply general principles and hope you call it right. Remember in Dakota the HC went one way and the SC went the other way, so it can be too close to call.

If you know the case law, there is a potential four strong questions there for you, after that, pick the essay subjects that are compact and that come easy to you, you only need one.

Incidentally Sowell v Potter [1939] doesn't even warrant a mention in some textbooks, I was reading an article by Keith Spence BL (also a GCD lecturer) and he had the info on it. I would love if somebody here who has Clark on Contract would check to see if the case is in the examiner's own book.

Damages in Contract is something you should know anyway, and be aware of the complete contrast between tort and contract. That makes it a cross-over study area which can only help you in two subjects.

JC

blathblath

Hey everyone, congrats to those who jumped the hurdle and to those who didn't....go again! I am a year and a half sitting these bad boys and finally have 7. It is no doubt an endurance test more than anything else, first time round I passed equity and property and have had to sit equity every time since until now! I was getting so frustrated and I guess at the start of repeating it I took it for granted! Every exam is difficult and unless you don't have the material in your head at the ready and also are really alert on the day I really don't think you can pass! My biggest mistake to date has been freaking out the night before (regardless of how much work I have done) and then not getting sleep before the exam! It has really slowed things down for me....even this time round I had tort on Monday and company on Tuesday and although the work for company had been done I failed purely as a result of exhaustion! My plan to ensure my place in PPC1 is to ensure EVERYTHING for company has been looked at,covered and previous exam questions attempted and if I require a sleeping tablet the night before so be it! Sleep is really a necessity that I to date have sacrificed and I really advise everyone to have enough work done so as to ensure you can grab 8 hours the night before.

to99

Those who have now passed:

Care to share tips that you have that worked. E.G memory techniques. things you did differently this time around etc

Jamie-b

Passed! Now have all 8 in the bag woowoo! To those who fail- just keep going! I had a couple of repeats along the way and managed to pass other papers that I just waffled first time. There seems to be little rhyme or reason to the marking.

My tips would be:
1) Always know the bankers inside out. There are certain topics in every subject that are always going to come up
2) Read past papers and sample answers- the same questions appear year in year out - sometimes they don't even change the names in the problem question. This way you will not miss a sneaky issue
3) Time management- i completely identifed the wrong issue in one question and since that meant I was marked on the other four I failed. You need to attempt 5- even with four good questions you most likely will fail

blathblath

Because there is so much to cover and it takes so long to make notes - do not kid yourself into thinking you have studied so hard because you have a folder full of notes....you actually have to have learnt the notes! Make sure you give yourself enough time to actually learn and don't be faced with a folder full of notes the night before that you'll never get around to learning....

Hogzy

blathblath wrote: »

Because there is so much to cover and it takes so long to make notes - do not kid yourself into thinking you have studied so hard because you have a folder full of notes....you actually have to have learnt the notes! Make sure you give yourself enough time to actually learn and don't be faced with a folder full of notes the night before that you'll never get around to learning....

THIS!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^

I had tonnes of notes for my first attempt thenking that i knew the material. I didnt know a thing. I dedicated 2 full weeks to learning stuff off and it worked wonders this time round. These 2 weeks were the difference between passing and failing for me.

blathblath

Hogzy wrote: »

THIS!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^

I had tonnes of notes for my first attempt thenking that i knew the material. I didnt know a thing. I dedicated 2 full weeks to learning stuff off and it worked wonders this time round. These 2 weeks were the difference between passing and failing for me.

Me too Hogzy! I was kidding myself for the last sitting....I thought the hours I put in and the fact I understood everything would get me through...however, I slightly overlooked the fact I wasn't actually learning anything! For me personally that is the difference between 45% and 55%!

JCJCJC

to99 wrote: »

Those who have now passed:

Care to share tips that you have that worked. E.G memory techniques. things you did differently this time around etc

I suppose each subject is slightly different because each examiner will have their own style, preferences and question patterns. See what I posted earlier about my own approach to contract.
On memory techniques, you'll get a few ideas from Tony Buzan's book on mind maps if you can lay hands on it. A few things that work for me:
1) get the information into your head in different ways - reading, debating, articles, textbooks, web researching etc.
2) Mnemonics - where the first letter gives you a clue -
'Dangerous killer had sex with five women'
has always helped me remember Donoghue v Stephenson, Kirby v Burke & Holloway, Hedley Byrne, Securities Trust etc, Finlay v Hegarty, Wall v Murtagh,
And that's the answer to 'trace the development of the tort of negligence in Irish Law'.
3) Any sort of a rhyme, no matter how smutty or offensive!!, will help you -
There was an old man called Mulhall
Who left his poor widow shag-all
She cried 'on the night'
There was no line of sight"
So she took the whole lot after all.

Mulhall v Mulhall is the case on witnessing wills.

4)Make little graphic doodles and diagrams in your notes. I had one with three little ships - the Eurymedon, The New York Star and the Mahkutai.

Try a few techniques, and exploit whatever works for you. Reduce your notes to the bare minimum - maybe two hand-written pages on each topic, which would be as little as twenty pages on each subject. Even if you get someone who hasn't a bulls about law to ask you questions on those pages, it helps because it copies and pastes the information into different areas of your brain. When you are under huge stress in your exam, all those areas will be needed.

Just my two cents, we are all different so what works for one person may not work for another.

JC

browsergal

JCJCJC wrote: »

3) Try a few techniques, and exploit whatever works for you. Reduce your notes to the bare minimum - maybe two hand-written pages on each topic, which would be as little as twenty pages on each subject. Even if you get someone who hasn't a bulls about law to ask you questions on those pages, it helps because it copies and pastes the information into different areas of your brain. When you are under huge stress in your exam, all those areas will be needed.

Just my two cents, we are all different so what works for one person may not work for another.

JC

I reduced my notes and then typed them up on powerpoint and then printed off 4 slides per page. The typed words were easier to recall than my handwriting and reading the points out load as if I was giving a presentation helped some points to stick. I really did find such a process helped me greatly but I guess each to their own ....

ananas

I've passed the first four- Property, Equity, Contract and EU. My advice for passing would be not to write reams of notes for every topic or to re write the manuals. Try and condense every topic down to four pages and just do bullet points. Whatever you do don't treat it like final year becuase it's a completely different kettle of fish to pass the FE1s. Definitely leave yourself 2 weeks to just learn. You will need it. I didn't leave myself with a lot of learning time and it was so stressful. Not looking forward to the next four, tort and constitutional- eep :eek:

pansoul

Some good advice above.
I'd just reiterate how important it is not to be complacent just because you've made notes on a topic. Having done 5 last time and thus having been determined to simply plough through all the material, when I'd finished making notes on a topic there was great relief - "yes, I've made 15 pages of notes, time to move on."

Realistically though, it isn't. I'd merely constructed the necessary solid base, which you must then craft into a more succinct and digestible form. The temptation is to 'close the book' on a topic without fully learning - but I think the best time to learn is when you've covered the topic in detail first-off. So just try to be patient instead of racing through things.

JCJCJC

dynamokev wrote: »

I would say whatever about having exams back to back because thats almost inevitable, but ensure you don't pick a combination of 3 exams in a row as you will just be completely burnt out by the time the third exam arrives.

Good advice, I have found them very draining too, more severe than college exams. I suppose it's because there is more riding on them, and in college at least you have the peer support of your buddies all around you. The way it's looking for me, I'll have at least three days in a row in the Spring, and have to stay away from home in Dublin with it, so I'll be driving home on autopilot after that.

law86

Congratulations to everyone who has progressed this time around. I'm Dublin based, still no results. Anyone else in the same boat?

tony28

yes im in the same boat ,been round in the sorting office and no luck

law86

Maybe we've won spot prizes.

ilovelamp2000

law86 wrote: »

Congratulations to everyone who has progressed this time around. I'm Dublin based, still no results. Anyone else in the same boat?

Yeah.

Been to the sorting office three times this week, yesterday at lunchtime they said the postman had just left with the post. Nobody on my road has seen him this week.

My results are probably sitting in some postman's car / house / whatever.

Finally finshed

Well, I really thought I would never get here....but I have! Had 7 of the 8 exams since 2008 and attempted EU 4 times...I think as time went on it got worse ( and to top it all off if i hadnt passed this time round, i would be out of an apprenticeship) So on the fouth sitting I finally passed! I dont know about you but I found as the years went on the paper just got harder! I am so thrilled I passed and still dont really believe that i have actually no more FE1's to study for!

The way my family and friends are reacting, is like I have won the Lotto! Its great but I am stil yet to go out and celebrate...this bloody snow is such a hindrance!

Anyway...I better get to the point...to everyone studying for these blasted exams....just keep at it..you will get there in the end. Roll on September 2011....I think i will be one of the oldest students in there....but what the hell!

bob_lob_law

Slightly off topic but can you sign on and do these bad boys?

Paul1979

yes you can, i got full jobseekers whilst doing FE1...
make sure u get it now as u wont get a scratch from them once you start PPC1

dinobeano

do we still have to pass an irish exam?

Hogzy

dinobeano wrote: »

do we still have to pass an irish exam?

Not unless your primary degree comes from a college outside Ireland i think. I didnt have to do an Irish exam anyway. I was born here, did my Leaving Cert here and went to college here.

coolbananas

Hey guys
I'm looking for some advice, I've 5 exams passed so far with 3 to go. My plan is to hopefully sit one exam next time around as I'm currently doing an LLB and have a dissertation to write. My question is which one would you pick: Tort, EU or Constitutional?
Thanks in advance for your replies:)

JCJCJC

coolbananas wrote: »

Hey guys
I'm looking for some advice, I've 5 exams passed so far with 3 to go. My plan is to hopefully sit one exam next time around as I'm currently doing an LLB and have a dissertation to write. My question is which one would you pick: Tort, EU or Constitutional?
Thanks in advance for your replies:)

Pick your weakest, so that you can give it all the time you have, and you then have a fall-back strategy of doing all three in the Autumn if it goes ass-ways for you. That's what I would do. I would also say do the GCD one-day intensive revision course on that one subject, they are great (no shares/relations/ vested interest etc, just my own experience). Their Tort lecturer makes a good guess at the hot topics and his hit rate is high.
Alternatively, if your diss is on a relevant topic, you are going to be an expert in that area and that would make a good chunk of the exam easier for you.