'No Satellite Dish' rule in Apartment Building - Advice?

Apogee

nephster wrote: »

So, does anyone in Dublin sell squish or digiglobe type dishes? Or is it the Internet as per usual? Wouldn't mind paying a bit over the Internet price for peace of mind, a flat twin lnb dish (Neovia NEO-VH200) looks to be about £180 delivered, but I don't think anyone actually sells the things in this country!

Satworld in Kimmage sell flat panel dishes.
http://www.satworld.ie/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=28

Personally speaking, I think it's a terrible waste of money to spend €100 or €200 on something that won't perform much better than your current Lidl dish. Have you considered trying to hide or camouflage your Lidl dish? In particular, mounting it horizontally on its back and throw a piece of tarpaulin over the balcony railings?



I'd suggest sitting tight until you get a warning letter before shelling out cash.

benifa wrote: »

Some others here, too.

The DIGITAL SATELLITE PIPE ANTENNA is interesting. Says "performance compares favourably with dishes of 50cm" - might be a nice option, if you're in Dublin I believe 50cm is fine.

Unfortunately, pipe antennas are rubbish. They never perform like what's claimed.

nephster

Thanks guys. Sitting tight is clearly the best option but I like to plan for the worst in advance

Crikey, some euro markup on those flat dishes, but at least they are available. Ebay seems a better bet however.

Sky are interested in putting in communal dishes but due to the size of our development (height, corridor lengths etc apparently) they are looking for *30 grand* to run a fibre-optic system or some such nonsense.

The current dish is tiny, but does a sterling job of picking up Astra even in rain. I'm using it with a pc card and BBC HD is stunning, and can stream that to other PCs in the apartment so finally have TV in my bedroom.

Think I'm going to give the dish a coat of grey paint at least and see if it will receive from behind the balcony glass. At the mo it's clamped to the balcony rail peeking over it.

bk

nephster wrote: »

Sky are interested in putting in communal dishes but due to the size of our development (height, corridor lengths etc apparently) they are looking for *30 grand* to run a fibre-optic system or some such nonsense.

In fairness fibre optic based systems are expensive.

I live in a development with Smart and Sky were able to install a normal communal sat system for free as the building is low

Apogee

nephster wrote: »

Think I'm going to give the dish a coat of grey paint at least and see if it will receive from behind the balcony glass. At the mo it's clamped to the balcony rail peeking over it.

It can be mounted some distance behind the glass and then the geometry of the dish will allow it to see over the glass railing. This will also make it less visible to nosey neighbours.



Alternatively, if you place it directly behind the glass, the dish will be forced to view through the glass - this isn't as good as above, as the glass will attenuate (reduce) the incoming signal and you will probably lose some or all of the channels.

nephster

Well guys, the ****ers just cut my dish down. As you can imagine I'm not exactly over the moon.

Propellerhead

Call the Gardai and report trespass, damage to your property and theft.

Tony

+1

Propellerhead wrote: »

Call the Gardai and report trespass, damage to your property and theft.

markpb

Propellerhead wrote: »

Call the Gardai and report trespass, damage to your property and theft.

If the dish was attached to the outside wall or sitting in the balcony, no trespass has been committed since the management company own both of those. In any event, trespass without intention of personal harm is a civil matter so the Gardai have no powers and won't respond.

They also know that most apartment have rules about satellite dishes and they don't want to get involved in a civil matter so they'll take your call and most likely do nothing about it.

Tony

Theft is not a civil matter?

markpb

Tony wrote: »

Theft is not a civil matter?

If you stick a satellite dish to my house and I remove it, is it theft? Similarly, if an apartment resident puts a dish on the company's wall and the company remove it, is it theft?

pa990

IT IS theft if the owner is permanently or temporally deprived of their property

faceman

markpb wrote: »

If you stick a satellite dish to my house and I remove it, is it theft? Similarly, if an apartment resident puts a dish on the company's wall and the company remove it, is it theft?

Yeah but the the dish wasnt attached to your wall. It was attached the dwelling in which the poster lived.

Just because its in a contract, doesnt mean it can stand up in court. Its never been tested and I cant see a judge upholding it.

The poster who had the dish removed, you said it was cut down? Was it damaged?

Tony

I doubt if that particular scanario has ever happened or been tested in court, lets stick to the real world for the purposes of this discussion.

markpb wrote: »

If you stick a satellite dish to my house and I remove it, is it theft?

nephster

faceman wrote: »

Yeah but the the dish wasnt attached to your wall. It was attached the dwelling in which the poster lived.

Just because its in a contract, doesnt mean it can stand up in court. Its never been tested and I cant see a judge upholding it.

The poster who had the dish removed, you said it was cut down? Was it damaged?

It was attached by a temporary clamp to a balcony railing. They just undid the screw, snipped (rather than unscrewed) the cables and took it.

If I say "where is it?" they will no doubt charge me for having had to remove it.

I would love to contest this in a legal setting, but where to start? And could I afford it??

Tony

nephster wrote: »

but where to start? And could I afford it??

Start with the Gardai see what they say

corban

i've tested it, gardai have no powers. its purely a civil matter. as long as advance notice of removal is given and the dish is available for collection after removal.

as a result of contracts signed by the owners, in relation to civil matters: there is no trespass where balconies are concerned because they are only leased from the management company i.e 99 year lease or something similar... and as said previously no theft if the item is made available for collection afterwards.

going after criminal damage for snipping wires would be just ridiculous and expensive...

the only answer is to negotiate a communal dish with management co...

nephster

Sky have been in talks with our management co, but want 30K to install a system.

Tony

Is there something unusual about your building as they normally install for free when theres some customers to be had.

markpb

Tony wrote: »

Is there something unusual about your building as they normally install for free when theres some customers to be had.

Communal dishes are very hard to install when the building is not pre-cabled (as most apartment complexes aren't). If there are cables running through the building, they are usually owned by UPC or someone else and can't be used for Sky. We priced it for our (large) estate and they quoted us in excess of €100,000 for installation.

Tony

I'm aware they are hard to install believe me, having said that sky have been providing free installs for apartment blocks in Dublin and elsewhere I would imagine in Ireland

markpb wrote: »

Communal dishes are very hard to install when the building is not pre-cabled (as most apartment complexes aren't). If there are cables running through the building, they are usually owned by UPC or someone else and can't be used for Sky. We priced it for our (large) estate and they quoted us in excess of €100,000 for installation.

markpb

Tony wrote: »

I'm aware they are hard to install believe me, having said that sky have been providing free installs for apartment blocks in Dublin and elsewhere I would imagine in Ireland

They have been advertising it but I've never met any apartment owner who has been able to avail of it. When I spoke to them, they said their cheap & cheerful method was to string cables all around the outside of the block and drill holes into each apartment as necessary. That wouldn't work for some design of apartments and the alternatives are expensive.

gibo_ie

markpb wrote: »

They have been advertising it but I've never met any apartment owner who has been able to avail of it. When I spoke to them, they said their cheap & cheerful method was to string cables all around the outside of the block and drill holes into each apartment as necessary. That wouldn't work for some design of apartments and the alternatives are expensive.

We had major issues with Sky conway and Danninger in our building claiming we could not use the cabling as they owned it and not the apartment owner.
After many long months/years arguing we put up some dishes on the roof (thanks tony) and created our own shared system (still using some of the cables but pulling the main runs ourselves). This got us out of a hole and used stacker/destacker to get Sky+.

NOW sky offer to install dishes and cable from the outside of the building as long as 4+ apartments sign up to it. The cost (for us) is €1220 in total and is due to be installed shortly. The builder cannot stop this as they do now own the building structure, the managment company do (which is every owner (and there amy eb cases like ours where directors hold 100 votes etc..)) but in the current environment keep hassling your managing AGENTS to get this done.

Cost breakdown - this is for 5 storey building with 78 apartments:

14 Special Height Equipment
15 Cherrypicker @ €100 per day €300
16
17 Bonding
18 150 per block x 2 €600
19
20 Fixtures and Fittings
21 cage & slabs x 2 €320
22
23 Total Cost €1,220

From http://www.skyinyourapartment.ie/ which is officially endorsed by BSKYB and carried out through a network of installers.
Good Luck.
M

Tony

Yes could well be the buildings they did for free were of the easier variety.

markpb wrote: »

They have been advertising it but I've never met any apartment owner who has been able to avail of it. When I spoke to them, they said their cheap & cheerful method was to string cables all around the outside of the block and drill holes into each apartment as necessary. That wouldn't work for some design of apartments and the alternatives are expensive.

bk

markpb wrote: »

They have been advertising it but I've never met any apartment owner who has been able to avail of it. When I spoke to them, they said their cheap & cheerful method was to string cables all around the outside of the block and drill holes into each apartment as necessary. That wouldn't work for some design of apartments and the alternatives are expensive.

Well then you have just meet one (well strictly not, lots of my neighbours have got it in).

It didn't cost us anything, Sky did it for free. But you are right, it just involved putting shared dish on roof and dropping cable to each apartment along the outside wall and then drilling into apartment. Fortunately our apartment building has a sort of external cladding stone, so the cables could mostly be hidden behind the cladding.

Tony

Could any saving be made by using the existing dish?

gibo_ie wrote: »

20 Fixtures and Fittings
21 cage & slabs x 2 €320
22
23 Total Cost €1,220

From http://www.skyinyourapartment.ie/ which is officially endorsed by BSKYB and carried out through a network of installers.
Good Luck.
M

djt0607

spockety wrote: »

This is standard Management Company horse ****, no offence.

Did you even read the EU directive linked to above? Management companies are in breach of EU laws on freedom and movement of goods and services if they attempt to restrict a citizens right to receive satellite television. It's as simple as that.

A blanket "no satellite dishes" rule in lease agreements of complex 'house rules' is illegal and should be ignored.

A communal dish install costing 50,000? Is that sheckels or guineas?

The management company are not restricting your right to receive satellite television; they are restricting you from mounting a dish on THEIR PROPERTY. It is this which you have NO RIGHTS to.

If you want to mount a dish on a wall, buy yourself a property. Then you wont have to ask anyone if you can do it; until then, you should abide by the rules of management.

bk

djt0607 wrote: »

The management company are not restricting your right to receive satellite television; they are restricting you from mounting a dish on THEIR PROPERTY. It is this which you have NO RIGHTS to.

If you want to mount a dish on a wall, buy yourself a property. Then you wont have to ask anyone if you can do it; until then, you should abide by the rules of management.

Actually while IANAL, I believe a case was heard on this very issue in Germany and the German court found that it was infringing on the persons rights to reasonable access to sat TV and therefore any such provision in the contract was null and void *

I don't think it has ever been challenged in Irish court, but if it is, given the precedence set by the German court it would likely go the same way here.

Also don't forget that as an owner of the property, you are also a member of the management company and if you get the support of neighbours, you can go tell the management agency to take a running jump (or even have them replaced).

* A lot of people seem to be under the impression that just because something is in a contract and you signed it, that it is now the law. This is not true, a contract can't over-ride any other legally held right or decision made by a court. That is why you can't just agree to give your first born child away in a contract, it breaks multiple other per-existing laws.

faceman

djt0607 wrote: »

The management company are not restricting your right to receive satellite television; they are restricting you from mounting a dish on THEIR PROPERTY. It is this which you have NO RIGHTS to.

They are removing the consumer's choice. Fluff it up whatever way they want, but that is what they are doing. Creating an artificial monopoly.

wil

djt0607 wrote: »

The management company are not restricting your right to receive satellite television; they are restricting you from mounting a dish on THEIR PROPERTY. It is this which you have NO RIGHTS to. <snippity>

This again.:eek:

Next we are going to hear that if someone takes a contract out on you, you no longer have a right to life.:eek::rolleyes:

As said above (and way way back) signing a contract does not override your inalienable right to freedom of services as declared by the EU.

And your balconey is for your exclusive use, it is not a communal area.

hopalong_ie

Hi,

It's all well and good looking at this from an "Irish" i want Sky/Freeview context but what happens when this common sky dish is installed and then a Polish or further a field tenant pips up and says "Hey, i want Polsat etc". What then, you cannot deny them the right to Sat either so in fairness it can quickly become a game of count the dishes.

We have a no dish rule in our complex. Two small four unit buildings. Faced with red brick on all sides. Last year we made an exception to allow Sat if the dishes were places on the ground. One 60cm Polsat dish went in and a 1m dish for someone further afield. One year on as a result we have two broken air bricks, a damaged window frame due to cables being pulled in and white cable takes on the building. Both tenants have disappeared and as a development who manages its own devolopement without an agent, a series of expensive repairs which now have to be undertaken.

As a result of this we have reinstated the no dish rule as favoured by 7 of 8 owners. Also can someone clarify if only one dish is allowed under each planning application does multiple dishes on a building not violate planning.

If you do not own the building and even if you look on it as others have i.e. that you own 1/8th of the building via the managment company then there is still in our case 7 people saying we do not want the dish on our 7/8th of the brick etc....

Was the EU ruling not relating to a city in Belgium have a sat tax of €50 euro or something simular. As i said it is easier to have a not dish rule as even a communial system is not enough these days what with 10% of the population being non nationals and most of these are not English speaking Sky subscribers...

There are similar developments, being of the same design as our dev close by that are covered in sat dishes, cables are literally strung across the bulding and in one case they actually drilled through two window frames to share one dish and i mean they actually drilled through the pvc frame... the developements look run down to say the least...

@Tony, didn't relise a communial system could but i assume this would be a 1m dish, not something you want to hang off a building the size of a large four bed detached house and in our case else where on site would require a lot of cable and digging to do.