Roma children taken into care today

TequilaMockingBird

Apparantly the Roma families on that roundabout in Dublin have had three children taken into care. Tried to get a link...bl**dy Vista...
Not trying to start any anti-Roma type thing here. Personally I think no children in this day and age should be living like that, and its good to see something being done about it. The parents need to be taught how to care for their children properly it seems. Very sad.

Duggy747

Well, that's a secure staple that'll allow them to stay. I love this country and the weakness of it. I didn't know we fixed our own homeless, poverty, child abuse so quickly overnight! If it was a bunch of homeless people on that roundabout the Gardaí would be sent around pretty nippy to clear 'em out. Just another day in silly Ireland.

Slow Motion

sueme wrote:

Apparantly the Roma families on that roundabout in Dublin have had three children taken into care. Tried to get a link...bl**dy Vista...
Not trying to start any anti-Roma type thing here. Personally I think no children in this day and age should be living like that, and its good to see something being done about it. The parents need to be taught how to care for their children properly it seems. Very sad.

I've already put the link in the other thread PC Madness.....

Kintarō Hattori

Duggy747 wrote:

Well, that's a secure staple that'll allow them to stay. I love this country and the weakness of it. I didn't know we fixed our own homeless, poverty, child abuse so quickly overnight! If it was a bunch of homeless people on that roundabout the Gardaí would be sent around pretty nippy to clear 'em out. Just another day in silly Ireland.

I suspect that would be the case alright. Plus the kids would be taken into state care.

ambman

every single one of them should be put on the boat and shipped out of here ASAP. these people make our travellers look like first class people.

TequilaMockingBird

Just spotted it Slow Motion

Slow Motion

sueme wrote:

Just spotted it Slow Motion

No bother I was getting tired of ranting in that thread, maybe I'll start here .......:p

film_gonzo

Duggy747 wrote:

Well, that's a secure staple that'll allow them to stay. I love this country and the weakness of it. I didn't know we fixed our own homeless, poverty, child abuse so quickly overnight! If it was a bunch of homeless people on that roundabout the Gardaí would be sent around pretty nippy to clear 'em out. Just another day in silly Ireland.

So what you're saying is that the government should make sure ALL the Irish children should be safe before we go worrying about children of other nationalities living in this country. Because y'know one child's safety and well being is not equal to anothers obviously.

Just because we still have problems in sections of Irish life shouldn't mean that we turn a blind eye to the well being of other nationalities (and especially children) living in our country.

Duggy747

film_gonzo wrote:

So what you're saying is that the government should make sure ALL the Irish children should be safe before we go worrying about children of other nationalities living in this country. Because y'know one child's safety and well being is not equal to anothers obviously.

Just because we still have problems in sections of Irish life shouldn't mean that we turn a blind eye to the well being of other nationalities (and especially children) living in our country.

Obviously I don't mean flush the kids down the toilet. By taking the kids into the care then the related families will be taken care of which will, more than likely, inevitably lead to the housing of the rest of these people. Just because you bring children with you while you CHOOSE to live in squalled conditions shouldn't be a free gold ticket into this country.

Max_Damage

ambman wrote:

every single one of them should be put on the boat and shipped out of here ASAP.

Agreed.

Slow Motion

film_gonzo wrote:

So what you're saying is that the government should make sure ALL the Irish children should be safe before we go worrying about children of other nationalities living in this country. Because y'know one child's safety and well being is not equal to anothers obviously.

Just because we still have problems in sections of Irish life shouldn't mean that we turn a blind eye to the well being of other nationalities (and especially children) living in our country.

You're being intentionally disengenious (sp?) The point here is that we should sort out our own problems before we import others ! Charity begins at home. And yes I will look after my own kids (if I had them ) before I will worry about my neighbours, and anyone who says they wouldn't is talking $hite !

Gran Hermano

Word on the street is that a Garda in Santry station told his colleague
he fancied a Roma takeaway and before they knew what was happening
there was a misguided convoy on the way to the roundabout.

Saint_Mel

ambman wrote:

every single one of them should be put on the boat and shipped out of here ASAP. these people make our travellers look like first class people.

It said on the news yesterday that the government offered them all free flights
home but they refused saying that their current conditions were far better than
what they would have if they returned home!

Mizu_Ger

RTE News did a report from the roundabout a few days ago. At one point only the men were there and when asked where the women were they said that they went off to get food. This was followed by some shots of the kids begging off cars stopped at traffic lights. I am not surprised that they are living in those conditions if the men won't get up off their arses and get some kind of work (or do anything at all). Also, one of the kids there was only 6 weeks old. Why do people in such poverty continue to have children? (I am not advocating a Nazi style extermintion by saying that, it just seems that common sense has gone out the window).

fly_agaric

film_gonzo wrote:

Because y'know one child's safety and well being is not equal to anothers obviously.

I agree. Parents who buy expensive toys and sweets for their own kids while other children around the world (or possibly even here at home) are deprived of necessities are a bunch of selfish pigs! They should have given that money to Trocaire or SvdeP.

Countries that deign to look after citizens (incl. children) ahead of foriegners either outside or just arrived in the state are similarly selfish and corrupt! :mad:

film_gonzo wrote:

Just because we still have problems in sections of Irish life shouldn't mean that we turn a blind eye to the well being of other nationalities (and especially children) living in our country.

Very true. And the Irish homeless are not a trendy cause. They don't even have any et-nic dress or do stuff like play accordions on the streets or anything like that.:mad:

Slow Motion

fly_agaric wrote:

Parents who buy expensive toys and sweets for their own kids while other children around the world (or possibly even here at home) are deprived of necessities are a bunch of selfish pigs! They should have given that money to Trocaire or SvdeP!

Countries that deign to look after citizens ahead of foriegners either outside or just arrived in the state are similarly selfish and corrupt! :mad:

What are you talking about ! People are selfish for doing their best for their kids ?

The state is corrupt for prioritising the welfare of it's tax paying citizens over foreign indigents ?

Get a grip ! :rolleyes:

fly_agaric

Slow Motion wrote:

What are you talking about ! People are selfish for doing their best for their kids ?

The state is corrupt for prioritising the welfare of it's tax paying citizens over foreign indigents ?

Get a grip ! :rolleyes:

Sorry, was being a little sarcastic.:)

Slow Motion

fly_agaric wrote:

Sorry, was being a little sarcastic.:)

Sorry ! Damn me and my rush to be offended !

super_furry

Shame the same doesn't happen with our own travelling community. If the average settle person was to raise their children in similar conditions, they'd be taken off them and put into care.

flogen

Duggy747 wrote:

Obviously I don't mean flush the kids down the toilet. By taking the kids into the care then the related families will be taken care of which will, more than likely, inevitably lead to the housing of the rest of these people. Just because you bring children with you while you CHOOSE to live in squalled conditions shouldn't be a free gold ticket into this country.

You obviously know nothing about the processes involving state care for kids if you think that.

Here are the facts of this case:
These Roma are, as members of the EU, free to travel to Ireland and can stay here as long as they want.
They are not entitled to work because they do not have any work permits.
They are not entitled to claim asylum because they are from the EU.
They are not entitled to claim state welfare because they are here as tourists.
It is not illegal to beg, so they cannot be arrested for that.
Even if they could be and were deported as a result nothing can stop them from coming back to Ireland on the next flight.

In other words, the state cannot deport them so they have a choice - ignore them and let the innocent kids suffer or take the kids into care and make sure they're safe.

What do you think is better?

And having the kids in care is not a pre-requisite for giving welfare to the rest of the Roma; their parents gave up any rights they had when they failed to give their kids proper care.

When any bad parent has their child taken from them they don't get anything. Also, after the Citizenship referendum, people who come here and have kids don't get automatic citizenship (although I think their child does, so the child can stay but they can't).

As far as I'm aware it would actually be illegal for the State to give the Roma welfare and would require a change in either Irish or EU law (or maybe even both).

Duggy747

That's the plain truth, the charities will help the close families reunite with their children eventually leading to adequete housing. Where do you think other Roma's live in this country, other roundabouts? We can't deport them because of EU law unless they broke the law. They knew that coming into this country they were not allowed work permits (unless self-employed) but yet they still came. The men are sitting at the camps twiddling their thumbs waiting for cash to be plopped into their pockets. All around the country these Roma's are usually situated in pretty decent (usually 3 bedroom) semi-detached houses. This is one example the government should take care of carefully or else these people will whip out their mobiles and ring a cousin of a cousin of a brother's uncle to which we'll have more situations like this.

They travelled through several countries and the best they got is a roundabout at Ballymun? Which I find quite odd that they don't have a relative in the UK, somewhere else, or here. Though that could be a possibility to why they're here in the first place. The educational aspects of a Roma child are incredibly low here as a lot of times they are put into mental handicap schools.

In the end the children will be snapped up by the HSE for obvious reasons and then those at the roundabout (probably most) will then be looked after, I bet you anything on that.

Papad

One senior Romanian embassy official told the Irish Independent: "We are very embarrassed that some of our citizens have been involved in aggressive begging on the streets of Dublin.

"They seem to be under the impression that if they stay here long enough they will be given special allowances.

"But the law is clear and there are many others watching developments elsewhere. If concessions are made in Ireland, a large influx of others will arrive." (And this, from the Romanian official).

Duggy747

That's exactly it! Unfortunately though our hands are tied and there's fúck all we can do down to our own laws.........................laws that the Roma's should've have known (and probably have known before they came). And now through emotional blackmail they are looking to be plonked with cash, which they will eventually get from bleeding hearts charities!

Agamemnon

flogen wrote:

Here are the facts of this case:
These Roma are, as members of the EU, free to travel to Ireland and can stay here as long as they want.
They are not entitled to work because they do not have any work permits.
They are not entitled to claim asylum because they are from the EU.
They are not entitled to claim state welfare because they are here as tourists.
It is not illegal to beg, so they cannot be arrested for that.
Even if they could be and were deported as a result nothing can stop them from coming back to Ireland on the next flight.

Why did they come here in the first place if they knew they wouldn't get work permits or welfare? Because they saw a wealthy country where begging is legal and euro signs flashed up in their eyes.

skywalker

Duggy747 wrote:

Where do you think other Roma's live in this country, other roundabouts? We can't deport them because of EU law unless they broke the law.

Presumably its not exactly legal to just set up camp in a roundabout though? Its a danger to themselves and others at the very least. They can be moved on at least surely.

flogen

Duggy747 wrote:

That's the plain truth, the charities will help the close families reunite with their children eventually leading to adequete housing. Where do you think other Roma's live in this country, other roundabouts?

I don't know where the rest of them live but just because they're not at roundabouts doesn't mean they're living comfortably.

We can't deport them because of EU law unless they broke the law. They knew that coming into this country they were not allowed work permits (unless self-employed) but yet they still came.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't - it doesn't change the fact that they're here.

The men are sitting at the camps twiddling their thumbs waiting for cash to be plopped into their pockets. All around the country these Roma's are usually situated in pretty decent (usually 3 bedroom) semi-detached houses.

Can you back that up? If they "usually" get these decent houses, how come this huge family didn't?

This is one example the government should take care of carefully or else these people will whip out their mobiles and ring a cousin of a cousin of a brother's uncle to which we'll have more situations like this.

I agree - as far as I'm concerned their (the State and State bodies') tactics to date are fine. They're fulfilling their obligation of looking after children in potentially life-threatening situations but they're obeying Irish and EU law as regards the rest.

They travelled through several countries and the best they got is a roundabout at Ballymun? Which I find quite odd that they don't have a relative in the UK, somewhere else, or here. Though that could be a possibility to why they're here in the first place.

I don't really understand your point here. It's not so hard to believe that this is the best they could do, as finding a patch of land to set up camp is pretty much what comes naturally to a group of travelers like these.

The educational aspects of a Roma child are incredibly low here as a lot of times they are put into mental handicap schools.

I was under the impression that they were often left out of the educational system all together. How they would be put into "metal handicap schools" boggles my mind.

In the end the children will be snapped up by the HSE for obvious reasons and then those at the roundabout (probably most) will then be looked after, I bet you anything on that.

By whom? The state, as you've said yourself, cannot do anything to help them and if Pavee Point etc. could afford to house them I'm pretty sure they would have done it already.

Charities are already giving them food and access to showers etc. and that's their business (and in many cases remit). If you don't like it, just mark them off your Christmas donations list.

Slow Motion

Maybe they thought the roundabout was magic !

Zebedi told them

flogen

agamemnon wrote:

Why did they come here in the first place if they knew they wouldn't get work permits or welfare? Because they saw a wealthy country where begging is legal and euro signs flashed up in their eyes.

Well you're assuming that they were well versed in Irish law, firstly.

So assuming that they knew they couldn't work and couldn't claim welfare, do you think they came here just to make a living from begging? Or do you think they expect the state to break or change the law?

lightening

If I was a mod I would lock this thread with Flogen getting the last word in, he is one of the only people speaking sense, one of the only people who seems to know something about what he is talking about, the rest of the kneejerk "Ireland for the Irish" Bull is tiring and repetitive.

Slow Motion

lightening wrote:

If I was a mod I would lock this thread with Flogen getting the last word in, he is one of the only people speaking sense, one of the only people who seems to know something about what he is talking about, the rest of the kneejerk "Ireland for the Irish" Bull is tiring and repetitive.

Fortunately your not ! Did you actually read the whole thread ? This is not about Ireland for the Irish, so less of the sweeping generalisations, it is about a specific group of people and a specific situation, maybe you should take your blinkers off and read it again (assuming you did the first time) !

TequilaMockingBird

Should I bring my Autistic child to Romainia or Bulgaria for treatment as we are all equal? Because there isn't enough money for her to be treated here. Fact.