Love Ulster loyalist parade again: Yes or No?

gurramok

Ruen wrote:

Article 2 of the Constitution Of Ireland

They reject to be part of the Irish nation, do you not respect that?

They want to be part of another nation, UK.

marco murphy

They reject to be part of the Irish nation, do you not respect that?

They want to be part of another nation, UK.

I want to be part of Russia.
Will you respect that?

PeakOutput

they have the choice to CLAIM and receive citizenship if they WANT to. If they do not claim it they are not citizens.

Ruen

gurramok wrote:

They reject to be part of the Irish nation, do you not respect that?

They want to be part of another nation, UK.

I respect our Constitution which says it's a birthright, and there's alot of people in NI who dont want to be part of another nation so maybe you should consider that.

Ruen

PeakOutput wrote:

they have the choice to CLAIM and receive citizenship if they WANT to. If they do not claim it they are not citizens.

You dont have to CLAIM a BIRTHRIGHT! I've never CLAIMED citizenship but I have it:rolleyes:

PeakOutput

Ruen wrote:

I respect our Constitution which says it's a birthright, and there's alot of people in NI who dont want to be part of another nation so maybe you should consider that.

they have the choice..........also it is OUR constitution not theirs (in their opinion)

PeakOutput

Ruen wrote:

You dont have to CLAIM a BIRTHRIGHT! I've never CLAIMED citizenship but I have it:rolleyes:

as you can see from the paragraph quoted it is also a birthright for anyone else who qualifies for citizinship..............if you are born in america to an american parent and an irish parent you have to NOTIFY the irish government and CLAIM citizinship or else you will be just like any other foreigner coming for a visit

see here http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cultures/irish-faq/part08/section-3.html

Ruen

PeakOutput wrote:

as you can see from the paragraph quoted it is also a birthright for anyone else who qualifies for citizinship..............if you are born in america to an american parent and an irish parent you have to NOTIFY the irish government and CLAIM citizinship or else you will be just like any other foreigner coming for a visit

see here http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cultures/irish-faq/part08/section-3.html

That's great but if you're BORN on this ISLAND to at least ONE irish parent you just have it and DONT need to CLAIM it.

PeakOutput

i have re-read the link and think i misunderstood it one sec.

ok this is how i understand it.

our constitution recognizes them as citizens so they can apply for passports if they want

they do not recognise our constiution as they do not want anything to do with our country(accept to march wherever they want)

as they do not recognise our constitution as theirs they do not recognise that they are irish citizens.........this is their choice

a5y

gurramok wrote:

Curious as to what the opinion of boardsies to this, would you accept/reject/don't care about this parade of Orange marchers along with 'victims' through the city of Dublin especially after last years serious riot?

I'm a bit confused by a lot of this, but then again I've never lived in up north.

If people in Northern Ireland consider themselves to be British in nationality then do they also show solidarity to Britain by marching in Scotland, Wales and England in response to some of the recent terror attacks in Britain in recent times?

(I'm not trying to lay flamebait, frankly I think RTÉ and the newspapers have done such a patchy job covering what life in Northern Ireland is actually like that if such solidary marches were happened I would not be surprised if they weren't covered on the news. I really just want to know if they are done or not.)

For the record I say let them march, I'm all for both freedom of expression and IRL trolling and the march would be either one or the other or both.

Victor

gurramok wrote:

They reject to be part of the Irish nation, do you not respect that?

They want to be part of another nation, UK.

Actually, some Loyalists do claim their Irish citizenship, whether born North or South of the border.

gurramok

Ruen wrote:

I respect our Constitution which says it's a birthright, and there's alot of people in NI who dont want to be part of another nation so maybe you should consider that.

Your getting mixed up there.

Most people of the nationalist/republican persuasion see it as their birthright to be part of the Irish nation(republic).
Most people of the unionist/loyalist persuasion see it as their birthright to be part of the British nation(HM UK).

I respect both parties right to be part of whichever nation they choose.

Problem with your point is that most of those of the unionist/loyalist persuasion do not want to be associated with us as they identify with the UK and British nationality, we have got to respect that and not force our Irish nationality on them hence they are foreign citizens most who would be marching despite being probably born and rared in the northern state on this island.

(call them British Irish like British Welsh if ya like but not part of the Irish nationality of the republic)

Victor wrote:

Actually, some Loyalists do claim their Irish citizenship, whether born North or South of the border.

A very small tiny minority Vic, is Paisley one of them?

Ruen

gurramok wrote:

Your getting mixed up there.

Most people of the nationalist/republican persuasion see it as their birthright to be part of the Irish nation(republic).
Most people of the unionist/loyalist persuasion see it as their birthright to be part of the British nation(HM UK).

I respect both parties right to be part of whichever nation they choose.

Problem with your point is that most of those of the unionist/loyalist persuasion do not want to be associated with us as they identify with the UK and British nationality, we have got to respect that and not force our Irish nationality on them hence they are foreign citizens most who would be marching despite being probably born and rared in the northern state on this island.

(call them British Irish like British Welsh if ya like but not part of the Irish nationality of the republic)


A very small tiny minority Vic, is Paisley one of them?

Well gurramok unless you go ahead and ask each and every person who wants to march then we wont know what they want to be and even if they say they want to be British they can change their mind for a day and there's nothing anybody can do about it so you'll just have to get over it.

PeakOutput

Ruen wrote:

Well gurramok unless you go ahead and ask each and every person who wants to march then we wont know what they want to be and even if they say they want to be British they can change their mind for a day and there's nothing anybody can do about it so you'll just have to get over it.

well if we all "just got over it" we would still be singing god save the queen now wouldnt we

the point i think we are trying to make and that you have just illustrated is that whey are trying to have their cake and eat it (never understood that saying but you know what i mean).

the fact of the matter is loyalists do not consider themselves irish...........if we voted tomorrow we could have the constitution changed to give irish citizinship as a birthright to every european country does this all of a sudden make every european irish??? no it does not.

my problem is not the march itself it is the people who are making up the march and their sneaky bigotted anti irish pro violence views. i feel very sorry for the families of the victims of this violence as they are going to be lumped under the same banners as these people if and when the march takes place

marco murphy

my problem is not the march itself it is the people who are making up the march and their sneaky bigotted anti irish pro violence views. i feel very sorry for the families of the victims of this violence as they are going to be lumped under the same banners as these people if and when the march takes place

As long as people remember that Frazer does not represent victims.

Ruen

PeakOutput wrote:

well if we all "just got over it" we would still be singing god save the queen now wouldnt we

the point i think we are trying to make and that you have just illustrated is that whey are trying to have their cake and eat it (never understood that saying but you know what i mean).

the fact of the matter is loyalists do not consider themselves irish...........if we voted tomorrow we could have the constitution changed to give irish citizinship as a birthright to every european country does this all of a sudden make every european irish??? no it does not.

I meant get over the fact that they're going to march and are entitled to do so whether they want to be British or not. A bit off topic now but anyhow, the fact is if we ever have a united Ireland we'll have to accept these people along the way because whether we like it or not it's their home too.
If they're born here they're going to be from this country whether they want to be or not it's not something they can choose, loyalists do consider themselves irish, I've said this before but I'll say it again, they hardly consider themselves welsh do they?

marco murphy

A bit off topic now but anyhow, the fact is if we ever have a united Ireland we'll have to accept these people along the way because whether we like it or not it's their home too.

I agree totally. But I really think they should revise their sectarianism first.

wyndham

Yes, i love a good riot & could do with some new schuhs.;)

Ruen

Poblachtach wrote:

I agree totally. But I really think they should revise their sectarianism first.

Definitely, there's no place for it in todays society, it's completely unacceptable.

Martyr

Ruen wrote:

...loyalists do consider themselves irish, I've said this before but I'll say it again, they hardly consider themselves welsh do they?

any loyalist i've ever spoken to always considered themselves british first.
or even ulster scotish..never irish.
Truth is, they don't know who they are, and they have no true culture.

i even argued with old friends from protestant faith who wouldn't admit to being irish, even though they were born and living on the island of ireland their entire life.

perhaps they feel alienated..but i think irish catholics have accomodated them pretty damn well, considering the history of abuse by the british.

THIS IS IRELAND, i'm sick of some people feeling guilty for objecting to orange parades..do they not understand the whole point of these parades?
even some people feel guilty for flying an irish tricolour incase it offends some orange man..

orange parades are UTTERLY sectarian, and only serve to stir up hatred for irish people and our culture.

as somebody already said, if they love ulster so much, let them march there.

Yeah, i'm in ulster, but i guess donegal isn't part of the republic :rolleyes:
nor is cavan or monaghan

Reku

PeakOutput wrote:

as far as i remember the orange men were only a small part of the parade last year but it was that small part that caused the problem.........

i have no problem with a love ulster parade with no orangemen............in principle i dont want the orange order marching in dublin but not enough to go and cause trouble about it...............the furthest id go is probably to bring my "william of orange was a catholic" poster which is actually true apparently

They may have been a small part but they were certainly the loudest with their drums.:mad:
Hell no is my view, bad enough the Orange men have been allowed to set up one of their halls in Cavan (NOT ONE OF THE 6 COUNTIES!), tell them all to get with the times and forget the past.:mad:
Wish we could blow a huge rift between NI and the Republic, tell them to sod off and keep their Northern Ireland & Orange Order marches/events in NI, have nothing more to do with them...

Guess I'm going to have to make sure not to arrange to meet anyone in town that day since the same crap is likely to happen again, every thug and hooligan using it as an excuse to act up...:(

darkman2

Im sure all of you are going to burst out laughing when you read this:D

Newsletter
Queen 'could lead victims' parade'



The victims rally planned for Dublin is likely to be staged on a weekend at the end of September – provided it doesn't clash with the Queen's visit to the Republic.
And even then one of the organisers has suggested Her Majesty could lead the parade through the streets of Dublin.

Negotiations with the Garda had “reached a critical phase”, according to spokes- man Willie Frazer, who has been assured security will be tight.

He said it was hoped the parade would be a spectacle to be enjoyed by everyone but that safety would be the primary concern.

“Assurances were given that there would be a sufficient police presence to face down any rioters and that numbers and all eventualities would be planned for,” he said.

Mr Frazer, who claimed relatives of a garda murdered by the IRA would be taking part in the rally, said there had been a political shift in the Republic.

“The people of the Republic have clearly electorally rejected militant republicanism, now their state must seize the opportunity and act on that democratic mandate to destroy the cancer of republican terrorism,” he said.

“Our presence in Dublin will force the terrorist elements of republicanism to break cover and to take to the streets.

“We have exposed them for what they are and now the Irish state must seize the opportunity to smash them once and for all.”

Mr Frazer said the dates forwarded to the Garda for the march were Saturdays towards the end of September – “and the only reason for further negotiations is the potential for a Royal visit”.

He added: “Perhaps the best way forward is for the Queen to head this parade, thereby allowing the people of Dublin to show their respect for not only the Queen but also her citizens who died at the hands of our enemies.”
Last Updated: 10 July 2007 11:37 PM

Since when was the Queen visiting?

Unpossible

“Perhaps the best way forward is for the Queen to head this parade, thereby allowing the people of Dublin to show their respect for not only the Queen but also her citizens who died at the hands of our enemies.”

looks like complete fantasy, as far as I know the Queen has pretty strict security and I doubt they would allow her to get into a potentially dangerous situation.

Can you imagine the headlines though? Queen killed by shoe hurlled at the parade by a young man named as "Deco". When questioned about the incident Deco replied:
"I didn't even mean it, I had just taken the shoes from the smashed window when I noticed they were both lefties, so I threw them away."

Defence for Mr Deco made the statement: "Dispite his 20 convictions for assault Deco is not a violent man, he is from a broken home and was drunk."

edit:

Since when was the Queen visiting?

I thought it was next year, but that article suggests september

Tchocky

Average Joe wrote:

any loyalist i've ever spoken to always considered themselves british first.
or even ulster scotish..never irish.
Truth is, they don't know who they are, and they have no true culture.

Why the hell would they consider themselves Irish anyway?
No true culture. I was tempted to answer this bit in Irish, but mine is ****e.

THIS IS IRELAND, i'm sick of some people feeling guilty for objecting to orange parades..do they not understand the whole point of these parades?
even some people feel guilty for flying an irish tricolour incase it offends some orange man..

Really? (the second bit)
I'd like to think we're mature enough to let these eejits march around Dublin for a few hours. I fear that many are not.

Feral Mutant

Our presence in Dublin will force the terrorist elements of republicanism to break cover and to take to the streets.

Skangers are terrorists now?

Orange69

I would let the orange men march in dublin, it would be a perfect way to humiliate them and point out their bigotry and general stupidity...

Just combine their parade into an overall larger parade involving an outrageous gay pride performance (invite the germans), a "small dogs of ireland" parade, Brazilian dancers, stoner parade etc..

It would be hilarious..

Hagar

Queen to lead the parade? I thought Freddie Mercury was dead?

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote:

Queen to lead the parade? I thought Freddie Mercury was dead?

I think there is more chance of Freddie Mercury leading the parade than the Queen they would like:rolleyes:

darkman2

Im a bit disturb about two things here:


Firstly is the British Queen due to visit at around the same time these clowns want to march? - If thats the case I would say the march should be stopped right now.


Secondly - Mr Frazer has admitted his real agenda - or am I mistaken - that he wants to bring violent republicans onto the streets?

Erin Go Brath

darkman2 wrote:

Im a bit disturb about two things here:


Firstly is the British Queen due to visit at around the same time these clowns want to march? - If thats the case I would say the march should be stopped right now.

What about the corgis? Some skanger is gonna run off with them, and sell them on ebay. If the Queen is going to be wearing her crown, some yob is defo going to take that too. That'll fetch a few bob on ebay aswell, or moore street. "Get yeser bananas, 3 for a euro, and royal crown", 50 quid at least for that yoke, probably get the ton for it i'd say.

darkman2 wrote:

Secondly - Mr Frazer has admitted his real agenda - or am I mistaken - that he wants to bring violent republicans onto the streets?

Mr Frazers intentions are not honourable. :eek: Don't think thats newsflash of the century.