Love Ulster loyalist parade again: Yes or No?

gurramok

On Rte website, its reported that the Love Ulster organiser of last years parade is seeking permission for another parade from the gardai for a parade next month in Dublin. (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0620/dublin.html?rss)

Curious as to what the opinion of boardsies to this, would you accept/reject/don't care about this parade of Orange marchers along with 'victims' through the city of Dublin especially after last years serious riot?

PeakOutput

gurramok wrote:

On Rte website, its reported that the Love Ulster organiser of last years parade is seeking permission for another parade from the gardai for a parade next month in Dublin.

Curious as to what the opinion of boardsies to this, would you accept/reject/don't care about this parade of Orange marchers along with 'victims' through the city of Dublin especially after last years serious riot?

as far as i remember the orange men were only a small part of the parade last year but it was that small part that caused the problem.........

i have no problem with a love ulster parade with no orangemen............in principle i dont want the orange order marching in dublin but not enough to go and cause trouble about it...............the furthest id go is probably to bring my "william of orange was a catholic" poster which is actually true apparently

DarkJager

Pretty stupid idea considering they weren't shown much "love" the last time they came to the Republic. I see no point in this parade other than to stir the proverbial ****. The request should be rejected outright. Let them march through ****ing Ulster if they love it so much.

Binomate

Yes, let them back. They're irl trolls. I admire that.

gurramok

PeakOutput wrote:

as far as i remember the orange men were only a small part of the parade last year but it was that small part that caused the problem.........

i have no problem with a love ulster parade with no orangemen............in principle i dont want the orange order marching in dublin but not enough to go and cause trouble about it...............the furthest id go is probably to bring my "william of orange was a catholic" poster which is actually true apparently

Yes, i agree here.
I voted Yes, for a march without Orange involvement like marching bands, i don't want a sectarian march through our city.

Any other group which is not sectarian, like a victims group is welcome.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Unbelieveable

I don't like this at all. Like they're trying to make a point that we're somehow responsible for Republicans killing their friends & family.

You don't see friends & family of 9/11 victims marching in Damascus.

I'm not a provo by the way - if anything I'm an Irish Unionist.

PeakOutput

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

You don't see friends & family of osama bin laden marching in new york.

fixed

DarkJager

You don't see victims of the UVF marching through Ulster in some self important fashion, so why should we allow this??

PeakOutput

i dont understand the objection to victims marching anywere to be honest.........

the problem is not the victims its the orange order or any group of its nature

Time Magazine

Any citizen group has the right to march peacefully. People who seek a United Ireland, like me, want the people of the North to be citizens.

What sort of message are we sending out to unionists if we even hesitate to let them march?

PeakOutput

Ibid wrote:

What sort of message are we sending out to unionists if we even hesitate to let them march?

the message would be something along the lines of...........we have no problem with you marching in commomoration of the victims but you cannot bring down a group solely to antagonise our population
(which weather you like it or not it does)

i have no problem with unionists as a group i just dont see why they would even want to have a unionist march in a country they want nothing to do with ACCEPT for the sole reason of causing trouble

Dave D

Did you see what happend last time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXTfM0DVDCQ

Bottle_of_Smoke

PeakOutput wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle_of_Smoke
You don't see friends & family of osama bin laden marching in new york.



fixed


fixed

Should be against boards rules to quote people like that! For a second I thought I'd actually typed that unthinkingly!

I assume you're referring to UVF members being part of the march?

Zambia

Folks what better sign of A changing Ireland than allowing the bandsmen to simply march though Dublin.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Zambia232 wrote:

Folks what better sign of A changing Ireland than allowing the bandsmen to simply march though Dublin.

We don't have a problem with it, we just know what would happen

Zambia

Oh and if I remeber right in the last riot , there was no huge effort to get to the Orange marchers ....but the sports shops no amount of Gardai could protect them

PeakOutput

Zambia232 wrote:

Folks what better sign of A changing Ireland than allowing the bandsmen to simply march though Dublin.

we do not live in an ideal world............which for me would include everyone watching to turn their back on the orange men and being silent...........its never gonna happen........

You can blame whoever or whatever you want but their presence will cause trouble and that should not be allowed happen

smoke; i do not assume the family and friends of osama are members of any terrorist organisation, do you???

MAYPOP

No. It is deliberatly provocative, and serves no purpose in my opinion.

Zambia

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

We don't have a problem with it, we just know what would happen

Last time was a how not to plan a contentious parade the Head garda involved should have been displayed ass first on the spire.

With a decent organisation it should be no bother...

PeakOutput

Zambia232 wrote:

Oh and if I remeber right in the last riot , there was no huge effort to get to the Orange marchers ....but the sports shops no amount of Gardai could protect them

i was there(work very close by nothing sinister) and it was about 5 people breaking into the shops and looting..........................the funniest thing was a sinn fein protester running from the peaceful protest to a looter shouting "this is a peaceful protest" a knocking the looter the **** out............i left for the train at that stage

Bottle_of_Smoke

PeakOutput wrote:

smoke; i do not assume the family and friends of osama are members of any terrorist organisation, do you???

Family, no

Friends, more than likely

What did you actually mean then?

PeakOutput

Zambia232 wrote:

With a decent organisation it should be no bother...

the gardai didnt cause the riots they just dealt with them fairly badly..........you have to fix the problem not treat the symptoms...........the problem was the orange men(not citizens of our country) aggravating citizens of our country(granted un desirable citizens of country)

darkman2

Happy days - the muppet show is coming back:rolleyes: You know they are just doing this for a reaction........

Zambia

PeakOutput wrote:

we do not live in an ideal world............which for me would include everyone watching to turn their back on the orange men and being silent...........its never gonna happen........

I would say dont go ... but your option is your right to do so.

5starpool

I don't see why anyone bothers to march for anything tbh, but I don't care if they do really. Let them do it I say.

dermo88

Please, please come back.

Have the Gardai in riot gear.

And the Gardai can get revenge on Anto, Deco and the RA-heads. At least the Gardai and Army will be prepared for their antics this time.

Its just a walking excuse to get rid of our own scum. At least the Orange Order have a return ticket.

PeakOutput

Zambia232 wrote:

I would say dont go ... but your option is your right to do so.

I can almost guarantee you i wont be there either way unless like last time i have to be in town anyway im not the protesting, peacefull or otherwise, type so i will leave them to it...........

Zambia

PeakOutput wrote:

the gardai didnt cause the riots they just dealt with them fairly badly..........you have to fix the problem not treat the symptoms...........the problem was the orange men(not citizens of our country) aggravating citizens of our country(granted un desirable citizens of country)

True but i dont remember the Gardai having to deal with the orange men. Plus if you take offence by the mere presence of an Orangeman you really need to get out more.

PeakOutput

Zambia232 wrote:

True but i dont remember the Gardai having to deal with the orange men. Plus if you take offence by the mere presence of an Orangeman you really need to get out more.

Its not that i take offence as much as i think they are a bad organisation created to celebrate a not so glorious event/person that is irrelevant to todays society but is kept going because it gets a reactionary responce wherever it goes.

gandalf

TBH the problem last time were the Celtic Jersey wearing weekend republicans who saw it as an opportunity to cause trouble. Also what genius in the Gardai allowed a march on a Street that was effectively a building site.

I think it should be allowed but this time with adequate policing with proper planning.

BTW if we all dressed up with bowler hats and marched with them I'd say this would be the last time they ask for a March

gurramok

dermo88 wrote:

Please, please come back.

Have the Gardai in riot gear.

And the Gardai can get revenge on Anto, Deco and the RA-heads. At least the Gardai and Army will be prepared for their antics this time.

Its just a walking excuse to get rid of our own scum. At least the Orange Order have a return ticket.

Your naive to think the Garda are rather good at policing, anyone living in no-go areas will disagree with you

They won't go around cracking heads because

1-Garda ombudsman will be watching them like a hawk as a test of their policing
2-These ain't mayday student type protesters, they'll draw in the local skanger hardman population in huge numbers looking for a fight and the gardai ain't very pushy when dealing with those types for fear of injury despite their Robocop gear
3-They will do their best to contain any trouble if they organise their policing strategy properly, its what they do best.

ctc_celtic

in an ideal Ireland, the government would say 'yes please come'
but no one else would bother to come or protest,
there would be no fuss, no one in Dublin would give a hoot about it and there would be no press coverage.

if there were no complaints or no publicity, i bet you they would not come again.

But unfortunately this is the real world.

cooperguy

Would they let a "Love the Republic" parade in the north without a protest? I dont think so. They are only trying to aggravate people and they shouldnt be allowed.

Zambia

cooperguy wrote:

Would they let a "Love the Republic" parade in the north without a protest? I dont think so. They are only trying to aggravate people and they shouldnt be allowed.

Try Paddys day , it would be fine

KdjaCL

PeakOutput wrote:

as far as i remember the orange men were only a small part of the parade last year but it was that small part that caused the problem.........

You remember wrong it was a well organised sinn fein/ira/scumbag effort that caused all of the trouble. Wheelie bins full of bottles and bricks mysteriously appearing in back streets the night before.
Every scumbag in dublin encouraged to go in and wreck the place.

Worked tbh.


let them do what they want but get the MayDay gardai on duty and let them sot out the scumbags.


kdjac

kdjac

Dave!

Zambia232 wrote:

Oh and if I remeber right in the last riot , there was no huge effort to get to the Orange marchers ....but the sports shops no amount of Gardai could protect them

What you mean there was no effort to get to the orange marchers? They were chucking bricks and fireworks at them before they could even leave the starting point. If the riot squad wasn't between the 2 groups then you can rest assured that the Loyalists would have gotten a hiding.

I don't think the parade will be granted this time, because the Gardaí know what will happen.

I think the Loyalists should be allowed to march, and we should be allowed to turn up and protest peacefully (ideally turn our backs and remain silent), because it is clearly intended to antagonise Republicans (and chuckies....). They knew what response they would receive last time, that's why they did it -- show how victimised they are.

KdjaCL wrote:

You remember wrong it was a well organised sinn fein/ira/scumbag effort that caused all of the trouble. Wheelie bins full of bottles and bricks mysteriously appearing in back streets the night before.

Yeah, cos Sinn Féin gained so much politically from organising a riot... The perfect strategy: try to show ourselves as democrats -- and then remind everybody of our violent history. Unless you mean RSF.

And you can rest assured that no preperation was necessary: O'Connell Street was a building site while the parade was supposed to be taking place. Whoever let them go down that route is a f*cking moron.

Wertz

Big fat NO from me....the Queen is welcome on her state visit or whatever and any ulsterman is welcome south of the border, but leave your damn regalia and rhetoric at home

PeakOutput

KdjaCL wrote:

You remember wrong it was a well organised sinn fein/ira/scumbag effort that caused all of the trouble. Wheelie bins full of bottles and bricks mysteriously appearing in back streets the night before.
Every scumbag in dublin encouraged to go in and wreck the place.

Worked tbh.


let them do what they want but get the MayDay gardai on duty and let them sot out the scumbags.

half of what you say is true the other half is pure crap

the cause of the trouble was the fact that the orange order were marching down oconnel street im not using it as an excuse but it was the cause

i dont automatically link sinn fein to the scumbags just like i dont automatically link the orange order to terrorists.............when i was there the sinn fein members were peacefully placed behind a barrier at the end of oconnel street blocking the way as far as i could see..............

the trouble makers were indeed the celtic shirt wearing scummers BUT i blame the orange order equally for imo deliberately provoking them

Victor

How about organising it for 9am Sunday? Little chance of the scumbag element being up then.

Zambia

Victor wrote:

How about organising it for 9am Sunday? Little chance of the scumbag element being up then.

Thats a good Idea

Marathon Man

How about a 'Love Ireland' or 'Love Leinster' parade through Belfast city?

ejmaztec

Just the place to get back to Dutch roots.....

http://www.iowagreatlakes.com/_communities/_orangecity/index.asp

There was alot of rubbish printed about the march in the media last time. They had alot to answer for the violence on the day.

There were no Orange men in the march, at least none dressed in the sash and bowlers.

On the face of it, it was a march organised by families to protest against the killing of their family and friends. But it was organised by Willie Fraizer a bigot and **** stirrer of the highest degree.

That said its a free country. Let them march let them make their point let them go home. I find it funny indeed ultra republicans are against this march. There is zero possibility of a united ireland without acceptance of all traditions on this island.
Banning marches because you don't agree with their point of view is not a sign of a healthy democracy.

lostexpectation

does anybody still not know what they were thinking at all, having the march go past a building site? I mean ok the rioters rioted but don't make it easy for them, the gardai ****ed up

but the most impressive thing they did that day was to put a line of riot cops in their gear across oconnell and took the **** for 20 minutes to give time for the ulster bigots to go around to the dail and play their tunes !

they outsmarted the rioters in that way.

but will everybody note 5 minutes into the video, the group of sinn fein activist sat down in the road... they sat down and went limp to be dragged off, quite tame really...

I still don't think this march should go ahead. it'll be much harder to stop, why doesn't the garda./gov just say a polite no to love ulster, they banned marches before.

see the guy pictured chucking the wheelbarrow only just got convicted.

gurramok

ronoc wrote:

There was alot of rubbish printed about the march in the media last time. They had alot to answer for the violence on the day.

There were no Orange men in the march, at least none dressed in the sash and bowlers.
.

There were 6 bands at that parade, all in sprightly red uniforms with unique hats on their heads.
See here http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=HvzRObOkpOU , wait till it reaches 1m:15sec to see one band and you'll find the media were right.
The bands even 'marched' outside the dail that day as a symbolic protest after when they couldn't march there directly from Parnell St..

gurramok

gurramok wrote:

There were 6 bands at that parade, all in sprightly red uniforms with unique hats on their heads.
See here http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=HvzRObOkpOU , wait till it reaches 1m:15sec to see one band and you'll find the media were right.
The bands even 'marched' outside the dail that day as a symbolic protest after when they couldn't march there directly from Parnell St..

A band.. They aren’t Orangemen my friend. Maybe you should avoid St patricks day if bands offend you.

I notice you conveniently avoided my other points

gurramok

ronoc wrote:

A band.. They aren’t Orangemen my friend. Maybe you should avoid St patricks day if bands offend you.

I notice you conveniently avoided my other points

What are they then?...They escape from the Gate Theatre? ..Enlighten me

Other points, lose the triumphant sectarian bands, Willie Frazier is indeed a bigoted loyalist.

PeakOutput

gurramok wrote:

What are they then?...They escape from the Gate Theatre? ..Enlighten me

Other points, lose the triumphant sectarian bands, Willie Frazier is indeed a bigoted loyalist.

the band in that video arent orange men but you can see the orange order flag in the background beside the union jack in the first 20secs or so

they were there with their sash's on and their flag raised even if they were in armani suits they should not be let march representing their biggoted organisation simple as............i have no problem with the rest of the march going ahead

MooseJam

no right to march

Savman

I voted No. Let them use the Port Tunnel.

Flukey

Yes, despite last year's riot in Dublin which arose out of Willie Frazer's Love Ulster march, he wants to march in Dublin again. Again he is trying to use the excuse of seeing is Dublin a tolerant city, knowing full well that a small group of thugs may cause trouble, thugs who are not representative of the people of Dublin. Today the Love Ulster people are to meet with the Garda Síochána to investigate the possibility of doing it all again. There is of course a chance he may end up lost in Cork today, as he still thinks Dublin is in the south of Ireland. In relation to marching and geography it begs the question: "Will he ever learn?"