Should Irish be mandatory for Leaving cert?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Had this conversation with friends recently, pretty surprised that they want it kept mandatory.

They didn't provide any logical reasoning - just that we should do it because it's our native language, that it would die if this was changed. I don't understand this because it's not alive aside from in gaeltacht regions & how does 2 years of study make any odds to whether it is or not.

What do people think?

Enemy Of Fate

Absolutely not.It should be abolished right NOW, and should never be forced upon people ever again.......Thankfully though I don't have to do Irish!Hurrah!!

Captain Smiggy

I think we should use the system used in england and northern Ireland. Nothing is mandatory for the A-levels. They also have a far wider choice, upper and lower 6th being more like college.....but sure f*ck it, while we're stuck here, i say change it, yeah. That way, everybody wins. People who want to do it will do better because the teacher'll only have people who want to do it, and people who hate it'll have something else to do. A lot of the problem is the curriculum itself. I'd do it even if it was optional, but it really is just a throwback at this stage. If it's mandatory because of the whole "culture" thing, then why isn't irish history?

Tar.Aldarion

Should be abolished imo.

Haven't a Clue

It shouldn't be abolished, no, but the way it's taught needs to be changed dramatically. Students should somehow be given a love for the language so they're willing to learn it. Instead, after 13/14 of learning Irish, students are coming out nothing near to being fluent.

Tar.Aldarion

I got a c1 in honours with barely a word of Irish. Nobody liked it, nobody speaks it(pretty much) Better off learning a language you can use instead of learning one for nostalgia.

Haven't a Clue

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I got a c1 in honours with barely a word of Irish. Nobody liked it, nobody speaks it(pretty much) Better off learning a language you can use instead of learning one for nostalgia.

There's money in being **** hot at Irish now though with Irish being an official EU language. If you become and interpreter or a translator, you'll make a nice bit of money for yourself.

Captain Smiggy

I learn it because i love it, but i do also use it. It's not just gaeltacht areas. I recently found out my neighbour has fluent irish, and whenever hes down now we often have great wee chats. I disagree with the whole "just for nostalgia" thing....I'm not gonna start with a load of "800 years, our language, brits, yada yada yada" Bollocks, but i honestly do it for the love of it. It is a very interesting language, structurally, and i think thats reason enough to study it. If you were to write all subjects off for "nostalgia" where would history be?

ImDave

I think it should be abolished. All the same, they give marks away like peanuts. I am fairly bad at Irish to say the least. I done my LC last year, and I dont think my oral went to well, wrote about ten lines for the essay nd I didnt have a clue when it came to the stories/poems, but I still got an Ordinary B3! Thats not to say its a great result, but it shows that due to the debate on this topic, their is most likely pressure to keep the average grade up.

JC 2K3

I don't see why it shouldn't be mandatory.

It's no more pointless than English and to a certain extent Maths.

They could make nothing mandatory, but I don't personally agree with allowing students to specialise at such an early age. It's a good thing to have all students doing three common subjects.

Basically it means that, in theory, every student should come out of 6th year reasonably proficient in 2 languages and mathematics.

The situation of Irish at LC level isn't great right now as people generally go into 5th year with nowhere near the standard required, which is something which needs to be remedied.

They're currently working to improve the teaching methods at primary level and I doubt it will be long before the syllabus of JC Irish is changed(there's talk of making the optional JC oral Irish exam worth 40% instead of 20% and perhaps making it mandatory, something which I agree with).

As for the arguments that say it shouldn't be mandatory and people should be given the option of learning another language instead, well it's not going to happen. It's our native language and it's more popular than it's been in a long time. If it could survive being mandatory through the 70s and 80s when Irish was absolutely despised by a much larger amount of people than today, then it's not going to be made optional at a time when Irish people are actually proud of their culture and WANT to learn Irish.

I doubt there'll be many more complaints about it 10 years from now.

If you think it's in decline and no one speaks it you're wrong.

Corruptedmorals

I love it! Managed to get really fluent at the gaeltacht. I think it should be kept mandatory, it's a sad state of affairs when we don't learn our own language. Trying for an A2..woo.

tolosenc

Should it be mandatory? Yes. End of.

It wasn't me!

No, it should not be mandatory. Why should it?

Enemy Of Fate

obl wrote:

Should it be mandatory? Yes. End of.

You'll notice the only people who EVER say Irish should be mandatory are people who like/are good at it.No-one who does poorly/hates Irish ever says it should be mandatory, but there are a few intelligent people (although they are few and far between), who like/are good at Irish, but who realise it shouldn't be mandatory.But they are a rare bunch.

timmywex

let it be optional,, no one uses it and it fecks up so many leaving certs in terms of points, let them do something else, japenese would be more useful

eZe^

Instead of making it optional I think they should make an effort at teaching us the language properly.

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

You'll notice the only people who EVER say Irish should be mandatory are people who like/are good at it.No-one who does poorly/hates Irish ever says it should be mandatory, but there are a few intelligent people (although they are few and far between), who like/are good at Irish, but who realise it shouldn't be mandatory.But they are a rare bunch.

You'll also notice that there's a group of people who depise Irish for absolutely no logical reason.

Anyway, like I said before. If Irish becomes optional, then so should English and Maths. However, that would be a step in the wrong direction IMO.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

You'll also notice that there's a group of people who depise Irish for absolutely no logical reason.

Anyway, like I said before. If Irish becomes optional, then so should English and Maths. However, that would be a step in the wrong direction IMO.

No logical reason huh?Right.......Because its not like if you fail Irish in the leaving cert you're completely ****ed when it comes to getting into a university....Yeah thats not it at all.

Lucas10101

It shouldn't be made compulsory because it's part and parcel of Irelands culture, that alone should make it compulsory whether people like it or not.

Personally, I hate Irish but still think this way.

Fobia

I think it should be optional. As should maths and english, in response to JC2k3's comments. At the end of the day, regardless of reasons for being for/against a subject being mandatory, if a student does not like a subject, they're never going to become in any way decent at it, and will use it very little (if at all) after leaving school.

Also, students disliking a subject but being forced to do it means classes are full of people who hate the subject, and thus bring down the level (especially in schools lacking a streaming system) of the class as a whole. Of course, you'll get lots of people dropping down to pass, but wouldn't it be better they did a different subject they could handle the honours level at? Even if you just want to "Pass the pass irish", most schools will still force you to attend one class a day, this adds up to many hours, which could be devotted to a new subject, or even a subject the student already takes.

I think students should do Irish, English and maths and another language, but I don't think they should have to.

Lucas10101

I think that's a very narrow view.

If people don't like a subject it should be made optional? Maybe the structure could be altered to make the subject a little bit more engaging for students, but for the purposes of culture, keep it.

colm-ccfc84

It should certainly not be mandatory. If people want to chose it that is their perogative, but forcing such a 'subject' upon everyone is grotesque.

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

No logical reason huh?Right.......Because its not like if you fail Irish in the leaving cert you're completely ****ed when it comes to getting into a university....Yeah thats not it at all.

Trinity, for one, don't require Irish(or English, for that matter, AFAIK).

In any case, if you can't pass OL Irish, you're probably not smart enough or too lazy to be going into University in the first place.

Fobia wrote:

I think it should be optional. As should maths and english, in response to JC2k3's comments. At the end of the day, regardless of reasons for being for/against a subject being mandatory, if a student does not like a subject, they're never going to become in any way decent at it, and will use it very little (if at all) after leaving school.

Well then it becomes a matter of revising primary school and JC teaching methods.

And no one uses ANY subject they do at LC level after the LC unless they go on to study it further, and even then, waht they learned at LC level is rarely much help.

Fobia wrote:

Also, students disliking a subject but being forced to do it means classes are full of people who hate the subject, and thus bring down the level (especially in schools lacking a streaming system) of the class as a whole. Of course, you'll get lots of people dropping down to pass, but wouldn't it be better they did a different subject they could handle the honours level at? Even if you just want to "Pass the pass irish", most schools will still force you to attend one class a day, this adds up to many hours, which could be devotted to a new subject, or even a subject the student already takes.

It's a valid point, but again, such a problem could be avoided with better teaching methods at primary and JC level.

I mean, in many cases, students never hear spoken Irish from first year until a few weeks before the oral in 6th year.

tolosenc

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

No logical reason huh?Right.......Because its not like if you fail Irish in the leaving cert you're completely ****ed when it comes to getting into a university....Yeah thats not it at all.

If you can't meet the expected level of education, then you can't move on. Pretty simple. What was that proverb about bad workmen and their tools?

And Colm, I REALLY don't thin that people are arguing whether or not it is a subject. That's been pretty much established. The inverted commas should go on the verb in that sentence.

cson

The way the paper is as it stands is not conducive to attracting students to study at higher level. Paper 2 is all cold hard rote learning as is the essay on paper 1. Thats almost 50% of the exam that needs to be learned off by heart by most people.

The new changes will do it good, 40% for the oral is a great idea.

As for it being a dying language...... have you noticed the latest fashion is to send young Sorcha or Fionn to a gaelscoil?

tolosenc

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

You'll notice the only people who EVER say Irish should be mandatory are people who like/are good at it.No-one who does poorly/hates Irish ever says it should be mandatory, but there are a few intelligent people (although they are few and far between), who like/are good at Irish, but who realise it shouldn't be mandatory.But they are a rare bunch.

I reject those points.

I know a guy who will be lucky to scrape an Ordinary C3 in a few weeks time, and he's mad for the language.
I like Irish and speak it fluently. I, along with most other similar people, think it is the most deserving of mandatory status of the 3 core subjects.

Fobia

Lucas10101 wrote:

I think that's a very narrow view.

If people don't like a subject it should be made optional? Maybe the structure could be altered to make the subject a little bit more engaging for students, but for the purposes of culture, keep it.

For the purposes of culture I think it's a little irrelevent - whether irish is growing or in decline I really don't think it's because irish is mandatory.

JC2k3 wrote:

Trinity, for one, don't require Irish(or English, for that matter, AFAIK).

In any case, if you can't pass OL Irish, you're probably not smart enough or too lazy to be going into University in the first place.

To the first point, yes, but Trinity isn't exactly the only college people want to go to..
To the second, well, some people really are that dire I'm afraid. Luckily I'm not one of them, but I do know someone who's very mathematical (whizzing through engineering now) but only managed to scrape a D3 in ordinary level irish.

JC2K3 wrote:

It's a valid point, but again, such a problem could be avoided with better teaching methods at primary and JC level.

Certainly, but that's not the arguement here? I mean I'm sure more people would do higher level maths if it were taught better also, but while it's a good point, I don't think it's a good enough point to justify a subject being mandetory. But that's just my opinion.

Nephew

English is completely necessary so every school leaver can read and write to a proficient level for economic & social reasons, regardless of what the constitution says we are an English speaking nation.

Nearly four years after leaving school I have never had to use a word of Irish, on the other hand I have been to Germany a few times and I wish the German I learned was of a more advanced level. I had to do Irish, English, French & German for my JC, I had to drop either French of German for the LC. Why couldn't I drop Irish? Its such an irrelevant language which is of no benefit after school for 99.9% of people. For the LC, I had 6 classes of Irish a week compared to 4 for German, it doesn't make any sense.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

In any case, if you can't pass OL Irish, you're probably not smart enough or too lazy to be going into University in the first place.

But see thats just stupid.What if someone doesn't feel like wasting time learning Irish, and instead spends the time studying other subjects.So the LC comes around they do quite well (400+) but fail pass Irish.So you're saying that just because that student can't pass Irish, they're not smart enough toget into college?See its just mad.

obl wrote:

If you can't meet the expected level of education, then you can't move on. Pretty simple. What was that proverb about bad workmen and their tools?

But see the whole point is that it SHOULDN'T be part of the expected level of education.I mean its not something important like being able to add, its just a ****ing useless language that only 2% of the population uses on a regular basis.**** sake learning Farsi would be more beneficial than learning Irish.At least its still used.The only language subject available in the LC thats less useful than Irish is Latin......and even then Irish doesn't beat it by a large margin.

genericgoon

Yes to keep it at LC but no to ppl losing out in college choice if they might happen to suck at irish or wanted to specialise in subjects they might actually use on their course. Personally, my irish isnt great but its passable at HL but there are ppl in my class who really fear failing OL but who could get enough points from other subjects but because FL isnt universally accepted have to risk OL. Some people just suck at irish.It is very different form any other common language tbh.

JC 2K3

Fobia wrote:

To the first point, yes, but Trinity isn't exactly the only college people want to go to..
To the second, well, some people really are that dire I'm afraid. Luckily I'm not one of them, but I do know someone who's very mathematical (whizzing through engineering now) but only managed to scrape a D3 in ordinary level irish.

The LC should force a student to learn things their weak at I think though. Contributes to a broad education and all that.

Nephew wrote:

English is completely necessary so every school leaver can read and write to a proficient level for economic & social reasons, regardless of what the constitution says we are an English speaking nation.

There's a difference between English and LC English.

You learn enough English by 6th class to be able to function just fine in the real world.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

But see thats just stupid.What if someone doesn't feel like wasting time learning Irish, and instead spends the time studying other subjects.So the LC comes around they do quite well (400+) but fail pass Irish.So you're saying that just because that student can't pass Irish, they're not smart enough toget into college?See its just mad.

But see the whole point is that it SHOULDN'T be part of the expected level of education.I mean its not something important like being able to add, its just a ****ing useless language that only 2% of the population uses on a regular basis.**** sake learning Farsi would be more beneficial than learning Irish.At least its still used.The only language subject available in the LC thats less useful than Irish is Latin......and even then Irish doesn't beat it by a large margin.

Well seeing as they have to pass it, it's not a waste of time learning it....

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

But see the whole point is that it SHOULDN'T be part of the expected level of education.I mean its not something important like being able to add, its just a ****ing useless language that only 2% of the population uses on a regular basis.**** sake learning Farsi would be more beneficial than learning Irish.At least its still used.The only language subject available in the LC thats less useful than Irish is Latin......and even then Irish doesn't beat it by a large margin.

No LC subject is really useful though.

You unlearn most of the simplified LC Physics and Chemistry should you pursue them in college, you don't need to be very proficient in Europeon Languages to do well in them at LC level(well to get a B at least, but let's face it, A1 students are fluent in foreign languages learned to be fluent abroad or in a Euro Languages course, not in class or by studying), unless you're doing a degree in them, Languages, as well as "rote learning subjects" like History are pointless too.

In fact, the LC is mainly "learning stuff for the sake of learning stuff".

Why not just have Irish mandatory for the sake of promoting our native language? It's only "forced" upon us until we're 18.

cson

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

wasting time learning Irish

Indicative of your attitude as a whole really. You're offering up no new arguments other than the blunt and narrow minded "its useless in real life" rhetoric.

As for not being able to pass OL Irish, grow up, at 17 most students with a bit of application, work and extra help even could pass OL Irish.

Fobia

cson wrote:

As for not being able to pass OL Irish, grow up, at 17 most students with a bit of application, work and extra help even could pass OL Irish.

Certainly, but why should they? Are they going to contribute to this cause the irish lovers are fighting for? Are they going to help save the irish language in any way?

I think you know the answers to those, however, what if they got 5 extra physics classes a week? Would they not be much better physics students? I'd imagine they would. (obviously not specifically physics, any subject of their choice)

SamHamilton

Irish isn't just about learning it for the sake of learning, nor are most Leaving Cert. subjects, although it may seem that way. Personally I despise L.C. Irish but I feel that, through my study of it, I've gained invaluable skills. It's the same with subjects like History and Biology, say. Everyone knows it's just about memorizing information and then regurgitating it on the day but, believe it or not, this is extremely important! Knowledge retention is integral to almost any job and while you might not need to know all you have learned in school when you are doing your future jobs, you will definately need to be able to retain huge amounts of information. The L.C. prepares you for this, though obviously it's neither fun nor student-friendly!

With Irish as well, while some people learn off answers - something I am entirely against but fair enough, each to their own and all that - if one was to study the subject as it is meant to be studied, they would gain great analytical skills through the literature, the grammar etc.

Also, Irish is a subject that isn't terribly difficult to pass. A student in my class came to Ireland three years ago, without a word of Irish, and is now doing honours Irish for the L.C. Yes there is a huge amount of work involved if you are not particularly proficient in the language, but pass Irish (and I think there's foundation as well) is very doable, for anyone.

Plus, French is needed for the majority of third level colleges, universities, and although most of use won't be speaking French everyday, the fact that it is a requirement shows the importance placed on the skills gained from learning a language.

But see thats just stupid.What if someone doesn't feel like wasting time learning Irish, and instead spends the time studying other subjects.So the LC comes around they do quite well (400+) but fail pass Irish.So you're saying that just because that student can't pass Irish, they're not smart enough toget into college?See its just mad.

If someone wants their course bad enough they will put the time in and concentrate on their weaker subjects. I got a D in Art at Christmas and then found a course I wanted to do with high enough points so I worked and got a B in the mocks. I think it's fair that someone who really wants their course and works for it gets it before the person who expects to be rewarded for being lazy and immature and refusing to work at the subject they're in risk of failing.


So, I think Irish should be mandatory. By studying Irish you gain valuable skills, it's quite an easy subject to pass and hard work does = better grades and points.

Enemy Of Fate

JC 2K3 wrote:

Why not just have Irish mandatory for the sake of promoting our native language? It's only "forced" upon us until we're 18.

Its not so much the fact that its mandatory that bothers me.Its the fact that its NEEDED to get into 3 rd level education.That SHOULD be abolished, and theres not really any great reason for it being there.At the very least universities should accept a pass in foundation level Irish (they accept a pass in foundation level maths, so why not Irish?), and thats at the very least.

cson wrote:

Indicative of your attitude as a whole really. You're offering up no new arguments other than the blunt and narrow minded "its useless in real life" rhetoric.

And you're offering no other arguments than ''its part of our culture, people should just do it, its not that hard anyways''.It may be part of our history and culture, but that doesn't mean we should still have to do it.Hey Ireland used to a poor, backwards argriculturial country that was ruled by the British empire.Does that mean we should all go out, be farmers, earn next to nothing for hours of back-breaking work and then walk past the RIC barracks on the way back from harvesting hay?No.It doesn't.

cson wrote:

As for not being able to pass OL Irish, grow up, at 17 most students with a bit of application, work and extra help even could pass OL Irish.

BUT THATS NOT THE ****ING POINT!!!The time spent learning on Irish could be spent on another subject, that would benefit from the extra work.Why should it be wasted on Irish, which will never be used after the LC?And don't say ''well most LC subjects won't be used after the LC'', because while that is partially true some of them well be (especially if you plan on carrying them onto third level).

Corruptedmorals

Relax, getting a bit too heated there.

The Irish course HAS been changed, next year, 1st years will be learning a lot more through spoken irish..oral worth a lot more blahh..won't be examined in the LC until 2012 though.

JC 2K3

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

Its not so much the fact that its mandatory that bothers me.Its the fact that its NEEDED to get into 3 rd level education.That SHOULD be abolished, and theres not really any great reason for it being there.At the very least universities should accept a pass in foundation level Irish (they accept a pass in foundation level maths, so why not Irish?), and thats at the very least.

That's up to the universities themselves to decide. They obviously consider Irish a valuable asset.

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

BUT THATS NOT THE ****ING POINT!!!The time spent learning on Irish could be spent on another subject, that would benefit from the extra work.Why should it be wasted on Irish, which will never be used after the LC?And don't say ''well most LC subjects won't be used after the LC'', because while that is partially true some of them well be (especially if you plan on carrying them onto third level).

As I said above. What you learn in the LC is not much use in college. Even if you do pursue a subject at university level, the standard is so much higher that what you learned for the LC is generally negligible

Perhaps they should give more exemptions to particularly weak students, but that's the only concession I can really give to that point tbh.

Tomlowe

I'm 18 and i'm going to pass Ordinary Level Irish, that is to say, I have attained (and even exceeded) the level that this system of compulsory gaeilge demands of me. If someone tried to speak it to me at any level outside of a school environment, i wouldn't have a clue what they were going on about. Now can anyone tell me what the positive result of me being forced to spend (by my calculation of 4 hours a week, 30 weeks a year for 14 years) 1,680 hours, or ten weeks of my young life attaining this standard is? Hell, i'd be pissed off just to hear that the government was spending money to do it, but to compel people to do it against their will? its just bizarre

Nehpets

Irish shouldn't be compulsory.

"It's no more pointless than English and to a certain extent Maths."

Well as suggested on this forum before, English should be split into English and English Literature. (Like in England I think). The latter should be optional.

Maths is far more valuable than Irish. Most college courses will have some type of maths. You need maths for all trades. Maths can come in handy anywhere. It also teaches logic and problem solving.

It's our native language and it's more popular than it's been in a long time.

Our native language but the the primary language in use in the country. Many people will never use Irish after the leaving cert. (They can't or they don't want to.)

It seems a lot of people don't want to learn it too. Why should those people HAVE to because some people enjoy it?

I love it! Managed to get really fluent at the gaeltacht. I think it should be kept mandatory

Why? Not everyone enjoys it..

Instead of making it optional I think they should make an effort at teaching us the language properly.

Or they could do both?

You'll also notice that there's a group of people who depise Irish for absolutely no logical reason.

They don't have to like Irish even if they do have to do it. Logic isn't exactly needed when liking or disliking something. Also a lot despise it because they find it hard and they are not givin the option of not doing it. I think that makes sense.

If people don't like a subject it should be made optional? Maybe the structure could be altered to make the subject a little bit more engaging for students, but for the purposes of culture, keep it.

I think so. Altering the structure might help a few people but not everyone. Some people just don't like languages and some might just not like Irish. I don't think "for the purposes of culture" arguement stands.

The LC should force a student to learn things their weak at I think though. Contributes to a broad education and all that.

In that case, the subjects given to the student should be the exact opposite to what they want. That would be a stupid challenge.

You learn enough English by 6th class to be able to function just fine in the real world.

Unfortunately not everyone does. People come on here and can't type structured sentences right...

It's only "forced" upon us until we're 18.

What if you are 19 doing the leaving?

Indicative of your attitude as a whole really. You're offering up no new arguments other than the blunt and narrow minded "its useless in real life" rhetoric.

No one has countered his arguement. The only arguement that Irish should be compulsory is - "I like it", and - "for our culture/native language". Oh I forgot the most persauding one - "because it should be".

Personally I despise L.C. Irish but I feel that, through my study of it, I've gained invaluable skills. It's the same with subjects like History and Biology, say.

Funnily enough, neither of those subjects are forced upon us. I think that says something.

if one was to study the subject as it is meant to be studied, they would gain great analytical skills through the literature, the grammar etc.................the fact that it is a requirement shows the importance placed on the skills gained from learning a language.

Yes, a language can teach valuable skills. It doesn't have to be Irish.

radioactiveman

Yes it should be mandatory. It's our language, we should be proud of it - end of story!
It's not like the english we speak isn't influenced by it. And learning any language will help you to learn other languages. There are actually quite a lot of similarities between Irish and european languages. It's completely underestimated in my opinion.
The way it's taught definitely needs to be changed though. If people can finish their leaving speaking better french or german then we need to get real and face up to the fact that most kids have a very poor level of Irish.

When you consider that most people's grammar is nearly 100% irish it shouldn't be such an ordeal. Some people just need to replace english words with irish vocab and they'd be away.....:D (case in point)

yurmothrintites

Everyone has different views as we can see. I feel it should remain a compulsary subject as it is our native language and a reminder of Ireland's culture and past.
The language is already dying out at a phenomenal rate and we need to preserve it in our schools. In my year alone there are 4 pass classes and 2 honours with 12-13 people in the honours classes and 20-23 pupils per pass class. Irish should definately remain mandatory in my opinion.

JC 2K3

Nehpets wrote:

Yes, a language can teach valuable skills. It doesn't have to be Irish.

But why not?

As an Irish nation I believe we should be pushing for Irish to be the second language learned by our youth. Yes, we do need a big change in how it's taught, but that's happening.

Other bilingual countries like Belgium or the Netherlands function just fine.

I'd personally hate for Ireland to turn into an entirely multicultural, globalised, soulless country. Having a native language is core to having a cultural identity and right now compulsory Irish for the Leaving is one of the main ways of ensuring that our people speak at least some Irish.

cson

Enemy Of Fate wrote:

Absolutely not.It should be abolished right NOW, and should never be forced upon people ever again.......Thankfully though I don't have to do Irish!Hurrah!!

What the hell is your argument about if you don't even do the subject?! Are you fighting the 'powah', is that it?

And in my esteemed opinion not actually doing the subject would disqualify you from having any credible opinion on it being abolished.

Nehpets

radioactiveman wrote:

Yes it should be mandatory. It's our language, we should be proud of it - end of story!

Bull****.

Everyone has different views as we can see. I feel it should remain a compulsary subject

That certainly seems fair.

The language is already dying out at a phenomenal rate and we need to preserve it in our schools.

Actually it has already been pointed out that Irish is thriving at the moment. Gaelscoils (think that's what they're called) are very popular now. I think they're a great idea btw.

In my year alone there are 4 pass classes and 2 honours with 12-13 people in the honours classes and 20-23 pupils per pass class. Irish should definately remain mandatory in my opinion.

Why? Do you like seeing those people suffer? (Slight exaggeration haha)

I'd personally hate for Ireland to turn into an entirely multicultural, globalised, soulless country. Having a native language is core to having a cultural identity and right now compulsory Irish for the Leaving is one of the main ways of ensuring that our people speak at least some Irish.

Our culture can change, for good or for bad. Right now it seems like it's changing to a more violent one rather than anything else. The culture doesn't have to remain a prehistoric one.

btw, I agree with it being taught in primary school and possibly up to JC but after that I think people should have the choice.

lilmissprincess

Students should have the choice definitely. If a student is interested in a subject enough to pick it for their Leaving Cert, they'll pay attention in it and classes will be more focused, meaning more gets taught. The fact that a thrid language is needed for most Uni's leave a gap if irish is taken out but this could easily be filled by another language.

cson

My thoughts are this;

It should be taught in primary school but not with the emphasis it currently is. I remember having to learn grammar in national school which was utterly ridiculous at 8 years of age. Let the kids watch an hour of TG4 a day and they might actually be interested in learning it.

It should be compulsory at post primary level up to Junior Cert. However there should be more reforms to integrate a more modern feeling to the paper. The Leaving Cert syllabus being reformed to 40% for the oral is a good move but the paper 2 should also be looked at and reformed. The amount of work/rote learning required there is crazy. Perhaps introducing an audio-visual element may make Irish more 'user friendly'.

Finally, 3 subjects should definitely be compulsory for the LC, Maths, English and another language (Irish, French, German etc) which you should be able to choose.

JC 2K3

Nehpets wrote:

Our culture can change, for good or for bad. Right now it seems like it's changing to a more violent one rather than anything else. The culture doesn't have to remain a prehistoric one.

The culture isn't changing, it's simply being eliminated. Look at the state of the UK right now. Do we want that?

Governments can enforce certain things for the sake of preserving culture and it's worth it. Hell even for the sake of every Irish man and woman being able to collectively bitch about having to learn it it's worth it. A nation needs a common cultural identity.

Donald-Duck

cson wrote:

My thoughts are this;

It should be taught in primary school but not with the emphasis it currently is. I remember having to learn grammar in national school which was utterly ridiculous at 8 years of age. Let the kids watch an hour of TG4 a day and they might actually be interested in learning it.

Exactly, from about 2nd or 3rd class I had already decided I hated Irish.

Nehpets

JC 2K3 wrote:

The culture isn't changing, it's simply being eliminated. Look at the state of the UK right now. Do we want that?

Governments can enforce certain things for the sake of preserving culture and it's worth it. Hell even for the sake of every Irish man and woman being able to collectively bitch about having to learn it it's worth it. A nation needs a common cultural identity.

Well Irish IS complusory now and you say our culture is being eliminated? You also said (correct me if I am wrong) that Irish is very popular now.

So basically that proves that Irish isn't helping perserve our culture - so what difference would it make by making it an optional subject for LC level.

I agree with cson's post just above.

cson

I think Enda Kenny wanted to 'de-compulsorise' Irish...... Not gonna happen now

Any changes in changing its compulsory status are likely going to take a long time by which time a lot of people arguing here won't give a ****e whether its compulsory or not.

insafehands

Why not have a poll? Why not? Why? I just don't get it...

And no, it shouldn't.