Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

TheClubMan

They got my parents to sign the letter of consent first without showing them both the plans and site layout. They told them they would show them the plans after the architect was finished drawing them up. They then proceeded to submit the plans to the CoCo. without my parents seeing them. The first time that they seen them was when I downloaded them from online and questioned as to why there was twice as much land taken up in the layout. This was the first time that they seen and became aware of the issue. My sibling is now saying that this is what was 'discussed' but that is not the case. My parents are thinking of just going along with it now to do away with the unnecessary stress..

muffler

I can understand the stress involved for your parents and it's really up to the parties involved to find a solution or compromise while retaining a good family relationship. Unfortunately this is a domestic issue and not really a planning issue.

TheClubMan

The Temporary Development Contribution Waiver Scheme applies for 1 year to all permitted residential development that commences on site between 25 April 2023 and 31 December 2024, and is completed not later than 31 December 2026.

Does anyone know if this waiver is being extended beyond 31 December 2024?

 

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122699089#Comment_122699089

Nope it's not

Calahonda52

The sibling and co are proper (….)

3 acres is above the one acre below which development land issues don't arise,

anyway the map showing the new boundaries has not yet been signed off: your parents will need to sign this.

They could also object to the application, as could you, or file an affidavit for deception and coercion.

Bring it on!

gooseman12

Hi All,

Question/Concern on a planning outcome.

The context is Mr & Mrs Jones got planning and built a house a number of years ago.

A sibling, Mr smith is now applying for planning in the next door field. The sibling relationship is not to best lets say, communication would be minimal.

The planning gets refused on the basis of too much natural destruction and ditch removal in order to create an entrance.

The council also highlight that in pre planning discussions the council recommended that Mr Smith should be either applying to build in the Jones back garden and infill the site or will have to share the Jones entrance in order to obtain permission in the field next door.

The topics of the pre planning has now come as a bit of a surprise to the Jones who were unaware anything pertaining to their property was under discussion. It feels like there were many assumptions drawn in these discussions and the Jones feel quite blindsided that all this is now published up on the planning site.

It also backs them into a corner regarding the refusal as although the refusal is not directly their fault, it does clearly state that the council want a solution involving their property.

The Jones consider this outcome quite unfair considering this is the first they are hearing about any of this and how such assumptions could be made pertaining to their property without their knowledge or consent.

Any opinions or direction would be appreciated. Obviously the sibling relationship part of the problem but the Jones also do feel let down by the council who published all this information.

muffler

Just to be clear, the council isn't looking for a solution. The applicant Smith is the one looking for a solution. The council may have made a suggestion about sharing the entrance or building in Jones back garden at the pre-planning meeting but such suggestion would have been based on the information given to them by Smith.

Was false information provided by Smith? Was Jones publicly identified in the info posted online? Did Jones not inspect the application by Smith while it was being processed? Did Jones make an observation on the application?

A lot of info required but if Jones feels they have been compromised in any way the first step would be to request minutes of the pre-planning meeting under a FOI request and if necessary contact a solicitor. But as always the best option is for both parties to sit down together and discuss the issue in an amicable way.

gooseman12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725906#Comment_122725906

Thanks for the response Muffler.

I totally appreciate your opening statement regarding the solution, the council and the applicant.

To paraphrase what is written in the planners report: at pre-planning it was advised that the infill site to the west of the applicants sisters house would be the best option to consider…..In the event that this was not an option a key consideration for the adjacent site would be to access via the applicants sisters entrance to the west.

I guess we dont really know based on that whom gave whom information, but like you said above it can only be assumed that Smith provided some info on this.

I don't believe any false info was provided by Smith in the application, there was no mention whatsoever to anything relating to the Jones or their property in the application so there was nothing to concern the Jones or make an observation regarding.

All of the pre-planning discussion info and mentions of the Jones is revealed in the planners report.

Regarding the Jones being publicly identified, and this is one of their more serious gripes with all this, the planners report normally opens by referencing recent nearby planning applications and Mr Jones and Mrs Smith (as she applied on her maiden name at the time) get listed at this point as a recent application directly to the west of the site. Then in my paraphrased section above it refers to the applicants sister to the west of the site multiple times. It doesn't take a genius to put that 2 and 2 together.

Thanks regarding your suggestions, i fear the sitting down amicably may be further away than ever after all this but we shall see.

booooonzo

search not working so i will ask here

does the wording

"Application must be lodged within 2 weeks of publication of newspaper notice."

included the last day of the 2 weeks? eg newspaper notice is wed jan 22nd and application made on the feb the 5th

Mine was rejected but i'm not sure it should have been, ill prob just readvertised as its easier but just curious

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155868#Comment_123155868

It was correctly invalidated. It should have been lodged no later than Feb 4th being the 14th day after publication.

booooonzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156255#Comment_123156255

I would of said Feb 4th is 13 days after publication .

ie:

Jan 22nd Publication day

Jan 23rd 1st day after publication

Jan 24th 2nd day

………

Feb 4th 13th day

however the specific wording is

"Application must be lodged within 2 weeks of publication of newspaper notice."

If it was for instance "Application must be lodged within 1 day of publication of newspaper notice."

I would take that as Jan 23rd which would make sense

so by that logic within 2 weeks would be Feb the 5th

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123157134#Comment_123157134

Putting it very simply … the day of publication is classed as the first day. I've been in this business for over 40 years so Im sure I know what Im talking about at this stage.

booooonzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123157180#Comment_123157180

Just because its always been that way doesn't make it right. :)

I was just curious, it seems illogical and poorly worded imo and seems to go against most legal definitions but thanks for your input. I'm not doubting your experience.

muffler

I'll let you into a secret but dont tell anyone else! In my local authority area we used to get away with submitting valid planning applications on what is now the "15th" day but all that stopped about 25 years ago. I cant recall if it was as a result of a direction from the Dept Environment in Dublin or a determination by An Bord Pleanala but we (planning agents) all received letters from the local planning dept advising that the 2 week period ended exactly on 14 days and that included the publication day.

The planners or the admin staff couldnt have cared less about which day applications were submitted but once an order came down from somewhere further up the food chain then they had to enforce that. So I do understand what you are saying as I practiced that myself for long enough.

worlds goodest teecher

Hi,

I have a planning issue which I would like to get advise on.

I live in a small costal village in the NW. There is a small shed to the rear which I wanted add to and create a short-term letting property. I wanted to do things by the book and emailed the council. This is the response that I received:

"Thank you for your email. The use of an existing outbuilding as a short-term letting would require planning permission (there is no exemption based on the size of the outbuilding). This would be a material change of use of this building.

In most cases, this would not be a type of development that would be supported. It would be contrary to the general pattern of development in the area, would likely result in unacceptable loss of amenity to existing neighbours and also set an undesirable precedent for similar types of development."

I have no problem applying for planning but reading this is looks like they will refuse.

The thing is that there are at least 4 short-term letting properties within 100m of my house. My neighbour to my right has no issue and to my left is a holiday property.

I can't figure from the planners email if it is a definite no. I can guarantee that none of the other properties have planning.

Any thoughts?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340332#Comment_123340332

the planners email is as definitive as youre going to get at this stage. its undesirable from a planing point of view.

most probably also the reason none of your air bnb neighbours have gotten planing permission.

we cannot give advice here which amounts to breaking the law, but if you go ahead with this without planning permission you are then in the same boat as your neighbours.

worlds goodest teecher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340351#Comment_123340351

No, none of them would have planning.

Yeah I know that we would be in the same place, it's just that we would have a target on our head because we brought it up. We have an extension for which planning is granted and will start within the coming months.

worlds goodest teecher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340351#Comment_123340351

I have had several people read that emails, coming up with different conclusions as to what is being said. The architect of the extension read the email and said that there would be no hope.

mickdw

Never going to get planning for a short term let however you may well get planning to turn that out building into detached isolation unit if that would be any benefit.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340332#Comment_123340332

As pointed out above by syd you wont get anything more definitive than that. It would defeat the purpose of making a planning application if they could simply say yes or no to a query made on the phone or by email/letter. In fact the planners cannot give you a definitive answer without having a full set of plans and maps and written details in front of them which in other words is a full planning application.

Their response does hint at a refusal if you were to go down the planning route. The forum charter prevents anyone from advising you to break the law so all I can say is keep up with the neighbours!

rayjdav

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123340332#Comment_123340332

Is it the type of site whereby the garage could be applied for under a granny flat type development, whereby it will be interlinked to the existing, yet separate?? Depending on the proximity of the shed to the house, clever design could get you over the line??? That is if you want to go down the correct channels otherwise as above ^^^

BorneTobyWilde

Are all the airbnb's , or the majority done with no planning, as they are here there and everywhere in every nook and cranny of people's property.

And how do they get away with letting things that aren't even buildings, could be a bus, a plane, a trailer, a helicopter, a boat , a Silo, so many different things on Airbnb that are rented out..

worlds goodest teecher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123342284#Comment_123342284

I understand that giving definite answer would be unacceptable. Thanks

worlds goodest teecher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123343814#Comment_123343814

That could do. My mother in-law passed away 10 days ago, and worst comes to worst it would work well for my elderly father-in-law.

To use it as a granny flat, is it just a case of having the house and new property physically connected in some why?

worlds goodest teecher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123344092#Comment_123344092

Planner told me a couple of days ago that based on his search there are no applications approved/denied in the area. As I mentioned before, there are at least 4 running within 100m of my home.

TheClubMan

Scenario:

Jane has been granted planning permission to build her primary residence on a 1.5 acre site gifted to her by her mother. As the site being gifted is over the 1 acre limit parent to child exemption, will Sarah's mother have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the full 1.5 acres or just .5 acres of the site?

Also, the site has full planning permission, in a scenic, high demand area near good road infrastructure. An auctioneer put a figure of €65K on the site (undervalued) so Jane can avail of the first home scheme. If the site is transferred to Jane from her mother at the undervalued sum of €65K, what are the penalties for undervaluing the site upon transfer and which parties are liable?

ronivek

Our house already has a porch; albeit without walls or a door but with a roof and tiled floor with a brick pillar supporting the roof at one corner.

This porch is >2 square meters and so my question is: can this porch be enclosed without requiring planning or is it likely to require planning?

newhouse2

Applying for permission for new rural house and the council says that if the density is too high(and it is) then you can get an exemption by being engaged in agriculture. We have a herd number and let the field where the site is to another farmer for tillage. Does this count as engaged in agriculture?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123392773#Comment_123392773

If it doesn't breach a condition of a planning permission, not attached to a protected structure and is under 2 m2 then there shouldn't be an issue. However the best advice, as always, is to check with your local planning department by way of a Section 5 application.

muffler

The herd number and map of the farm from Land Registry should suffice.

The above is a reply to newhose2.