If you were manager of Dublin Bus...

AlekSmart

Well the current state of play as of the end of Feb 2007 is that Bus Atha Cliath have had several meetings with the DAA to register its total disagreement with this crack.

Having had a somewhat tepid response out at Collinstown,BAC have also raised the matter with the Dept of Transport and outlined in the strongest possible terms its Total disagreement with the reloccation and charging proposals.

Of course the DAA,being a new "independent" Authority,therefore has complete autonomy over it`s new realm.
This nifty piece of footwork allows Ministers and the likes to wash their hands and proclaim (Loudly) their reluctance to "Interfere" with the "Independence" of the new Authority...Blah di Blah Blah etc etc ad nauseum.

Time for Spade Calling sez Alek, If this sorry crockload of garbage is the best New,Improved Airport Infrastructural Policy this "Authority" can come up with then it should be challenged by BAC on the grounds that the DAA are acting against the Greater Public Good,which is therefore outside its remit and posibly illegal.

It should also be pointed out (Forcibly if the Authority will not listen to reason) that any action on the DAA`s part to relocate mainstream Bus Routes further away from the terminal building could well be construed as being in contravention of Public Transport Disability Access leglislation as it imposes additional restrictions on Public Transport users availing of any Disabled Access vehicles operated on those BAC routes serving the Airport.

The net effect of this DAA "policy" could well mean BAC being forced to introduce an Airport Access Surcharge on passengers using any of its services transiting the Airport.

No doubt diplomacy is currently active on this topic,but my guess is that the DAA will do it`s damndest to stake its claim and push this through with some form of Irish Fudge in the form of Departmental rebate or somesuch as a compromise.

However hopefully the North County Public Transport users will get wind of it now and start to ask questions of the usual political suspects as they come a-knockin.

Simple Answer : Call in The DAA Chief Executive and Board and tell them in NO uncertain terms to BIN this nonsense or find themselves some appropriate Fàs Literature !!! :mad:

At a time when Dublin and indeed Ireland is struggling to make up so much lost ground in Public Transport terms the very LAST thing we need is for a bunch of Lunaticks dressed up in Authorative clothing to foist their crackpot ideas on those who are FORCED to work in,use or travel through their showcase Airport........

To paraphrase Hermann Goering......"Whenever I hear the words Competitive Tender I reach for my Luger !!" :eek:

Metrobest

AlekSmart wrote:

Sadly the Australian ability to call a spade a spade,and in BIG LETTERS,is currently not on our menu.
Dublin Bus and it`s Shareholder are fixated with making everything as fuzzy and flexible as possible in some high liberal minded attempt to cater for ALL of the Community.
This,of course results in the company actually catering for very few at all.

Some senior official buried deep within Kildare St would take offence at the notion of BIG,CLEAR signage and the notion of a route number such as 666 might just prove a digit too far.

Next time you`re in town MetroB have a close look at the Expresso`services and note just how many Drivers make PERSONAL efforts to display their own signage outlining the Minimum Far/Limited Stop element of their journey.

Then perhaps an enquiring mind might also ask why the Company specify a state-of-the-art digital on-bus destination system and flatly refuse to display Information upon it..?

MetroB....If You get an opportunity pleae post a few Pics of the 333 so that I can have them blown-up,mounted upon a mobile advertising truck and driven up and down Kildare St every day until some dopey 2nd deputy assistant secretary (temporary) bothers to look out of their office window !! :eek:

Yes, Alex, communication in Australia is always very direct. Especially the road signs! Instead of just a boring "bus" at bus stops, the stops feature a matchstick man physically climbing onto a bus. Quite funny really.

And at the back of each bus there is a sign with a big arrow ordering cars to give way to buses. The picture of the car has one matchstick head, while the picture of the bus has five!

The 333 is a bendy bus - Dublin bus has similar models in its fleet. Emblazoned along the side of the bus is "pre pay only" and along the top "buy before you ride for a faster trip" . The destination board screams "pre pay only" in BIG letters. I have never seen anyone try to pay cash on this route and that's simply down to the clear communication - and that's something Dublin Bus could implement at the drop of a hat if it had the right people managing it.

Dublin Bus's drivers are the frontline staff who I am certain have loads of useful ideas that would improve the service, yet the management is somehow unable to utilise this talent effectively. Why?

Are there such things as weekly meetings where the drivers give feedback on issues they've encountered? I hope there is.

Calina

Metrobest wrote:

Are there such things as weekly meetings where the drivers give feedback on issues they've encountered? I hope there is.

In general, whilst I would see such thing as a good idea, I'm willing to bet that in practice they will not work if a) drivers don't see the feedback being acted upon and b) drivers don't get the credit for any subsequent improvements.

AlekSmart

Whilst there are internal Fora where staff can toss around ideas/suggestions these have not matched the initial hopes many had for some results.

Its achingly mind numbing to hear and see perfectly sensible ideas being put forward and then entering into the "System".
Once this happens the treacle effect begins and quite often the original proposer simply gives up on it.

Part of the problem is that nobody appears to be in charge,either of BAC`s own infrastructure or more importantly of the City`s complimentary infrastructure.

Layer upon layer of Managers,Assistant Deputy Managers,Admin Managers,Risk Managers,and Manager Managers all conspire to view suggestions from below-stairs as a direct threat to their own positions of authority.

This entrenched attitude usually manifests itself by the initial response being to offer opinions as to why any given suggestion will NOT work rather than engaging in a positive form of encouraging the process.

For example,Today (Tues) we have a large crew of working men replacing the pedestrian lights at Whitebeam Rd/Clonskeagh Rd.
This location is one place where a very small (2 metre) realignment and repositioning of the said Traffic Signals would free up an additional Inside lane to allow City Bound No11 Route Buses to avoid the often extraordinary delays caused by Car Traffic turning right onto Beaver Row to access Donnybrook and Ballsbridge.

The daily chaos has been self-evident here for the past two years and it`s worsening every week.
Part of the fall out from the constant delay has been a significant fall in passenger numbers at morning peak due to the unsustainable delays which the route encounters,particularly on the stretch from Bird Ave to Beaver Row.

Suggestion after Suggestion has gone in from Drivers and the net effect is.......A Brand New set of Traffic Signals including Poles and complete rewiring installed in EXACTLY the same location...not a millimetre of improvement...not even a nod towards the improvement which could have been made to the daily commute of literally thousands of commuters.

I would have expected any half-competent Traffic Engineer to spot the problem and make a small attempt to address it.....But I am obviously not well qualified enough to make any such judgement.
Mine is not to reason why...mine is but to do or die !

So the moral of the story is....If the Professionals don`t give a Toss,why should the Lower Orders..??

Now there must be a committee of some sort needing a new member......

markpb

AlekSmart wrote:

I would have expected any half-competent Traffic Engineer to spot the problem and make a small attempt to address it.....But I am obviously not well qualified enough to make any such judgement.
Mine is not to reason why...mine is but to do or die !

Slightly OT but on an related note, DCC are spending a huge sum of money upgrading the road outside my house to add two new (bus) lanes by cutting away the verge and footpath. It's a big job and it'll make a big difference but...

The main problem on the road currently is the M1 flyover and they're planning on doing nothing about it. The bus lane will start (as per all useless bus lanes in Dublin) 100m either side of it and since the traffic is blocked on the roundabout itself, all the bus lanes in the world will make no difference.

It's such a simple thing that any traffic engineer on location during rush hour should spot in an instant but they've no intention of fixing it.

shltter

My experience is that even something that should be straightforward like dealing with a car that is constantly parked at a bus stop is impossible to get dealt with .
Absolutely nothing happens.

Gardai wont come clampers wont come the car stays parked at the bus stop.
Managers are completely impotent to such an extent that they do not even want to hear ideas because they can not do anything about them or they make them look bad for not thinking of it sooner.

Unfortunately in this country we have to wait for someone to be killed or nearly killed before we do anything.

markpb

shltter wrote:

My experience is that even something that should be straightforward like dealing with a car that is constantly parked at a bus stop is impossible to get dealt with.

This happened just last week. Bus tried to pull in on Talbot st but couldn't because of a car parked in the bus bay. Garda standing right beside it didn't say anything. Driver sighed, let his passengers alight into the middle of the road and drove on.

Heart

Thanks Alex, those proposals seem interesting.

A 30 minute 746 service would be fantastic, however if the current DAA discussion here comes into play it could be a while before we see it!

Also, maybe some earlier/later service (before 6am/after 11.30pm) would also be a great move...

H

AlekSmart

Quote [Markpb] "

This happened just last week. Bus tried to pull in on Talbot st but couldn't because of a car parked in the bus bay. Garda standing right beside it didn't say anything. Driver sighed, let his passengers alight into the middle of the road and drove on. [End]

Markpb,you raise a VERY important point here and one which perhaps should be borne in mind by those who percieve DB drivers in a certain poor light.

The Driver of that bus may well sigh as he is in an absolutely NO-WIN situation.
The ILLEGALLY parked car and The DISINTERESTED Garda combine to ensure that this Driver is forced to assume a Wellington Quay stance.
By stopping (Illegally) out on the middle of the road to facilitate pasengers the Driver is leaving himself open to having observations recorded by plain clothes driving monitors or by any company managerial official

These observations may then be used to have that Driver called in to be interviewed by his manager and perhaps even to have a disciplinary charge laid against him.

Presently Dublin Bus`s Senior Management is quick to assure the media that SAFETY is it`s Number one priority etc etc.
Yet in situations such as Markpb describes that corporate concern evaporates and it`s left to the driver to exercise his "Discretion",which of course is then comprehensively second guessed by a desk jockey at a later date.

This all too commonplace type of scenario is responsible for what I believe to be a serious morale problem within the company and one which requires a strong Management committment to address.

As Shllter remarks..its not until there are fatalities that some grudging action is taken,and then only after the Driver has been dealt with first. :mad:

The entire thrust now is to avoid responsibility at all costs by building up a mountain of paperwork and to ensure that the corporate responsibility trail does not end up at ones specific desk......as for addressing the core problem....well...that`s not my department,sorry !!!

AlekSmart

Heart....
Just to update the original point.
The current DAA proposals have to be put alongside the attempts to upgrade the 746 in order to adequately portray the absolute chaos which Irish Public Transport Policy currently is in.
What is the point of increasing frequency when its simply going to increase the cost to the operator ?
The very fact that the DAA are emboldened to float such a stupid proposal indicates just how tenuous their grasp of the meaning of "Integration" really is.

One of the most disheartening aspects of the Belarmine/Aikens Village area developments is the amount of Car Park spaces provided in them.
Essentially this means that ANY Public Transport provision is only playing second fiddle and ALWAYS playing catch-up.
It now seems that the 46B will NOT be terminating in Belarmine but will be heading to Glenamuck instead,possibly into or adjacent to the new Retail Park.
Routing details are sketchy but suffice to say change is a-comin !!

shltter

markpb wrote:

This happened just last week. Bus tried to pull in on Talbot st but couldn't because of a car parked in the bus bay. Garda standing right beside it didn't say anything. Driver sighed, let his passengers alight into the middle of the road and drove on.

I'm not even talking about cars parked at bus stops for a few minutes I'm talking about the same cars parked at the same bus stops for months and despite the fact that Gardai are called everyday they never come. These are bus stops with the Kassell kerbing on wheelchair accessible routes. The issue has been raised with the various levels of management in DB who in turn raise it with the various levels of management in the Gardai but still no one has managed to actually get a Garda to actually respond.

Basically it appears to me that the Gardai have taken the opinion that parking violations are now the responsibility of the clampers and they have washed their hands of the problem meanwhile the clampers are content to take the easy pickings of the city centre expired traffic meters rather than deal with the people who block the buses in bus lanes and bus stops all over this city.


As Alek has said everbody is content to leave it to the drivers discretion safe in the knowledge that if anything goes wrong the driver will carry the can and if its not the driver then as in the Navan bus crash no individual is held to account instead the company is prosecuted not the individuals who make the decisions so they can sit safe behind the desk knowing that inaction or indeed action will doubtful ever lead to these people being held to account personally unlike the driver who can be second guessed and dragged before the courts no problem.

This is the reason why middle doors were never used properly in this city and why commuters trying to alight had to fight with commuters trying to enter for access to the only doors that could be opened and rather than deal with the problem no lets continue to allow people to park their car on top of a bus stop because it is 10 feet closer to their house and buy buses with one door so the fact that the issue is not being dealt with is not as obvious.

Victor

AlekSmart wrote:

It should also be pointed out (Forcibly if the Authority will not listen to reason) that any action on the DAA`s part to relocate mainstream Bus Routes further away from the terminal building could well be construed as being in contravention of Public Transport Disability Access leglislation as it imposes additional restrictions on Public Transport users availing of any Disabled Access vehicles operated on those BAC routes serving the Airport.

There is a suggestion that 747/748 be allowed keep its spot as those buses are wheelchair accessible.

However, I think the T2 planning permission shows even those being put beyond the short-term car park.

markpb

shltter wrote:

I'm not even talking about cars parked at bus stops for a few minutes I'm talking about the same cars parked at the same bus stops for months

Point taken but I was using it as an example of how the gardai don't care, even when they're right beside the incident. Extremely lax.

Basically it appears to me that the Gardai have taken the opinion that parking violations are now the responsibility of the clampers and they have washed their hands of the problem meanwhile the clampers are content to take the easy pickings of the city centre expired traffic meters rather than deal with the people who block the buses in bus lanes and bus stops all over this city.

I think this is the crux of the matter. I'm a bit of a parking nazi when it comes to bicycle and bus lanes but the Gardai openly say it's not their responsibility and to ring the clampers. The clampers never come out when it's outside the city centre. I could ring them about the same car parked in the same place every night of the week for 2-3 weeks before they do anything about it.

I presume this means DCC either don't care (very likely) or don't have a proper contract with the clampers?

Victor

markpb wrote:

I presume this means DCC either don't care (very likely) or don't have a proper contract with the clampers?

Cases are prioritised.

Metrobest

Some pics of Sydney's Prepay-only bus service, and if I were manager of Dublin Bus I'd be laying on this sort of service, not buying dozens of ridiculous double deckers with no rear doors!

I've also attached a picture of one of the pedestrian tunnels that link into sydney's railway stations. This one links the bus plaza at Sydney's central station with the train platforms (300 metres by tunnel).

mickoneill30

I think an easyish fix for that would be to increase the cash fares so that the difference between the cash and a prepaid ticket was greater. I used to live in Sydney. The fares aren't that cheap http://www.131500.com.au/ticketandfares/fares/bus_single.asp (about €3.4 for the longest trip)
It's more of an incentive to get people to prepay.

Metrobest

You're right that single trip tickets on Sydney Buses are by and large dearer than Dublin Bus although factors to be taken into account are the greater level of suburban sprawl in Sydney:

Buses go as far as 2 hours away, to a beautiful beach familiar to us all as the location of TV soap Home and Away. At Eur 3.40, that's a good deal in my book.

Now here's the thing about tickets. Dublin Bus decided to take away its best discounted ticket, the one that would have made thousands of commuters switch from prepay. That ticket was the 10 journey ticket, and it was a wonderful ticket. Sydney Buses still has such a heavily discounted ticket, named TravelTen, and this obviously aids the switch from cash to prepay.

Indeed, every bus in Sydney is festooned with posters promoting TravelTen. The message is "faster journey for everyone, cheaper journey for you." That's a message I bet Dublin commuters would take to heart.