Affordable Houses are crap

Kinetic^

Calina wrote:

I'm a bit disappointed by some of the elitism

I'm going to presume you're talking about some of the people that won't live in the property that they're being offered.

BingoWings

Calina wrote:

On the subject of if you can't afford to live in Dublin, then move somewhere else or get two jobs or whatever. Those, I think, are the words of someone who does not expect to have to do either. The truth is no city can function effectively on people who do the elite jobs only. Some people have to sweep the streets and I imagine that you'd baulk at paying them the 80K a year required to buy a tiny apartment. We - collectively - are not well served by creating an economy where a) 16% of the properties are unoccupied b) one bedroomed apartments are out of the reach of anyone earning less than double the average salary forcing a massive amount of commuting and the corresponding environmental cost c) local communities are fragmented by long distance commuting and or a large amount of empty property.

Agreed.

A scheme for key workers (teachers, police force, nurses etc) should be introduced - possibly with a higher priority than those in the lottery affordable housing schemes.

KingKenny7

Cantab

Do you have a problem with people buying (lack of buying but more trying to buying) houses.
You seem to be popularising a renting population.
My point of view is that, people should be allowed to buy a house at a price that is acceptable to the popualtion. What you are advacating is that the people who own two + houses make their money in rent and buy more, while the average person is trying to buy cant and is stuck renting, throwning money down the drain, having his rent increased every year, being told to move out after his lease, and when they reach the retirment age, go do the council and get a granny flat coz they have no additional money for rent.

There is a fact here, where the're shared ownership before?? No why was that? Becasause greedy builders, and greedy speculators with their ever so greedy friends in government we're too busy ripping of companies, then they seen a market for the people.

Wasnt it the case you only got 3 times your salary in a mortage, now its up to 10 (if lucky) mainly 6-7 times. I heard of bad inflation,but that takes the biscut.

The shared ownership/affordbale housing is the government buying houses to keep the market up. Our country is messed up, and suddenly we will all feel it badly

bill_ashmount

BingoWings wrote:

A scheme for key workers (teachers, police force, nurses etc) should be introduced - possibly with a higher priority than those in the lottery affordable housing schemes.

Why??????

msscarlet

Have been on affordable homes list since August 2004. Two girls that I know have got a letter this week advertising for affordable homes at 3 developments at Dublin 13. One development is Beaupark. I didn't receive letter will call DCC tomoro to ask why????

The first time I got entered in a draw with Dublin City Council was as a result of a newsletter sent MAY 2006. Beaupark was not advertised on the Affordable Homes Newsletter in May 2006.


I rang Dublin City Council on a regular basis from August 2004 until Jan 2006, When I applied for affordable housing the application form stated that points are awarded based on length of time spent on panel, income, residency in Dubln among other factors. In Feb 2006 I was told they had changed the scheme it no longer mattered how long I spent on Council list as they had changed the scheme. They said that a newsletter will be out advertising available properties in May 2006. And that I would have 3 chances in the draw. Was furious about new scheme.

I think they are in breach of contract as the scheme that I paid to enter was now dissolved and replaced with something that was of far less benefit to me. Old scheme the longer you were on list the more likely you would be offered an affordable home. New scheme you could be on a list for 1 month and be offered a home.



How did some people know about Beaupark back in early 2006 ? Were they council officials or their friends or families.
Check out this website people are talking about moving into their properties securing shared ownership loans etc. Seems to be affordable housing that they are talking about.

See this post http://www.beaupark.com/viewtopic.php?t=484&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0



Same thing happened with Northern Cross!

A post holder has stated that he was offered affordable homes at Northern Cross a few weeks ago. Yet Northern Cross was advertised on November Newsletter the draw for the November News letter is between 19th Feb and 28th Feb. Rang Council Today they said lucky applicants will be informed by letter later this week.

WHY ARE SOME PEOPLE BEEN EXCLUDED FROM DRAWS???????????????????????
These are the two areas that I have found out about there are probably loads more.

Victor

BingoWings wrote:

Agreed. A scheme for key workers (teachers, police force, nurses etc) should be introduced - possibly with a higher priority than those in the lottery affordable housing schemes.

I reapeat the question of "why?", but also note that gardai are paid a rent allowance, whether they are renting or not.

And why should a nurse, with job security and better access to a mortgage get anything over and above a shop or factory worker?

msscarlet

Have to agree why should nurse or garda get priorty? They can avail of overtime get extra shift allowances, garda get rent allowances, boot allowance, uniform allowance,etc. The gardas get boots free, uniform free so the extra money is for cleaning their boots and unifrom. The rest of us have to dress for work but we don't get a uniform or money for washing our work clothes.
While we need Nurses and Guards, We also need Bus Drivers, Shop workers, Dustbin men, Tradesman, Bank Officials, Deliveriy Drivers, Bakers, Butchers, Barbers, Hairdressers, Doctors, Opticians and every other sort of occupation to cater for all our needs on a daily basis.

Think it should be on a first come first served basis.
Only fair and tranparent way of doing things.
At least if you knew you were 422nd on list you could guestimate how long it would take to get apartment. Current lottery with DCC there is no guarantee that you will ever be offered an apartment.

chump

Victor wrote:

I reapeat the question of "why?", but also note that gardai are paid a rent allowance, whether they are renting or not.

And why should a nurse, with job security and better access to a mortgage get anything over and above a shop or factory worker?

KEY WORKERS?

*shakes fist* *shakes head* *shakes hips*

chump

msscarlet wrote:

Think it should be on a first come first served basis.
Only fair and tranparent way of doing things.
At least if you knew you were 422nd on list you could guestimate how long it would take to get apartment. Current lottery with DCC there is no guarantee that you will ever be offered an apartment.

This just shows how flawed the whole thing is.

If the majority of people who apply for affordable housing don't get it, because the luck of the draw - what happens them?

Well, they get along and survive.

So - where was the need for them to be on the list in the first place?
Same goes for the "random" people who got it.

Affordable housing, of any form or shape, should be for those in serious NEED.

And IMO the vassssst majority of people who 'get lucky' in the scheme could have gotten on just fine without any assistance.

Cantab.

Victor wrote:

I reapeat the question of "why?", but also note that gardai are paid a rent allowance, whether they are renting or not.

And why should a nurse, with job security and better access to a mortgage get anything over and above a shop or factory worker?

I'd say a garda/nurse would be eligible for at least 10% more of a mortgage - or equivalently, a 10% pay rise.

I'd imagine if you were working as a software engineer in the private sector, you'd have to work damn hard to earn an extra 10%. Oh and as for overtime? Overtime? It's taken you how long to write that piece of code I assigned to you yesterday? Well, just try justifying your programming ineptitude to your boss.

Cantab.

KingKenny7 wrote:

Cantab

Do you have a problem with people buying (lack of buying but more trying to buying) houses.

No, as long as they pay for them themselves. No problem at all. Just don't expect me to pay for it, especially when a lot of the people getting affordable housing probably earn decent wages that affords them a life of luxury.

KingKenny7 wrote:

You seem to be popularising a renting population.

I have no idea know what you mean by this.

KingKenny7 wrote:

My point of view is that, people should be allowed to buy a house at a price that is acceptable to the popualtion.

Ok, let's get it all clearly out in the open here: when you say "should be allowed to buy a house", does that mean, by implication, that citizens have a right to buy a house?

When you say "acceptable to the population", do you mean some form of government pricing control? Are you a socialist?

KingKenny7 wrote:

What you are advacating is that the people who own two + houses make their money in rent and buy more, while the average person is trying to buy cant and is stuck renting, throwning money down the drain, having his rent increased every year, being told to move out after his lease, and when they reach the retirment age, go do the council and get a granny flat coz they have no additional money for rent.

Firstly, I say fair play to those who have stuck their necks out and leveraged themselves to the hilt so that they can acquire property. If they've made money on the back of a booming economy, then fair dues to them. They took a risk, put their money where their mouth was and won.

As for the average Joe "stuck renting", well he's not "throwing his money down the drain" - he's paying for a service - you do know the difference between paying for a product and paying for a service, don't you? And besides, average Joe is probably saving himself a fortune by living in leafy Dublin 6 and putting his money into a savings account. And if the dishwasher should break down, well, the landlord's number is over the fireplace and loves hearing from his tenants when he's busy having his lunch/walking his kids in the park.

KingKenny7 wrote:

There is a fact here, where the're shared ownership before?? No why was that? Becasause greedy builders, and greedy speculators with their ever so greedy friends in government we're too busy ripping of companies, then they seen a market for the people.

Ya, ya, ya. That's Ireland for you. I discovered this about a year ago. You gotta just play your hand and accept that life's tough. I can see your point though that certain sections of society finding it tougher because of poor planning, corrupt zoning, dodgy contracts, favourtism, etc. The corruption at government level affects real people and there is a consequence to what has been going on. That said, I don't see how I, as an individual, can change all this, it's easier to go along the path of least resistance and get on with your own life.

KingKenny7 wrote:

Wasnt it the case you only got 3 times your salary in a mortage, now its up to 10 (if lucky) mainly 6-7 times. I heard of bad inflation,but that takes the biscut.

The shared ownership/affordbale housing is the government buying houses to keep the market up. Our country is messed up, and suddenly we will all feel it badly

Yup. I am fearful about the short/medium term future of Ireland. But as we write, the boyos are all off playing golf in Portugal, laughing themselves all the way to the bank.

BingoWings

Victor wrote:

I reapeat the question of "why?", but also note that gardai are paid a rent allowance, whether they are renting or not.

And why should a nurse, with job security and better access to a mortgage get anything over and above a shop or factory worker?

Key Workers are not just Nurses and Gardai, but a broad number of people working the social services sector, like Teachers, social workers, Heath care assistants, Support workers, Cleaners etc etc.

Without these people working in say Dublin, the city would be in trouble. There are plenty of positions outside Dublin where these people could get paid the same salary, but there needs to be an incentive to keep these people working in the city. The UK uses social housing in London as a way to keep these generally low - medium salaried people in the city and its worked.

Imagine Dublin city, with a population of over 1.5 million and only 100 nurses or 50 teachers to educate all the kids?

A nurse spends 4 years + college and on job training, comparing them to a factory worker or a shop assistant isn't comparing like with like...

Calina

BingoWings wrote:

A nurse spends 4 years + college and on job training, comparing them to a factory worker or a shop assistant isn't comparing like with like...

That isn't a reason, per se.

I'm not arguing against the idea of keeping a mixed society - don't get me wrong. But I spent six years in university and I'm not a socially critical person. I just run a computer system.

The problem is most people crave stability in their lives. That is why so many Irish people want to buy property, even if they can't afford it. Rental doesn't give them that stability. If you bring about a situation where critically important workers such as nurses, doctors, teachers and gardai can't find that stability in the city, but can find it somewhere else, then you'll wind up with a dearth of nurses, doctors, teachers, guards, bus drivers, street cleaners.

What it boils down to is this: how much importance does society attach to work which is absolutely necessary to the good functioning of that society, and how much it compensates those who provide that work. I'd be of the opinion, for example, that some good A&E nurses are a bit more important to society as a whole, yet they get paid considerably less than bank management, for example.

What seems to escape discussion here, of course, is the minor difficulty that property prices as they stand in Dublin are at the higher end of a boom/bust cycle. Given that there is ample indication that we are heading for a bust over the mid term (since these things don't play out overnight), the question I would be asking is why we are supporting anyone to buy property now. But I suppose that's too much of a hard question to answer.

abi2007

Cantab,
I think you've forgotten about those that at time of the property boom were too young to buy a house and are now finished college ect. on good wages but still can't afford to buy in there local area cause of people who have invested in a second house. In my local area a one bed apartment cost 1000euro a month to rent, probally less than the owner's mortgage. madness. From your negetive attitude I would say you are either a developer or you have a second property. must be getting greedy now, don't want to share the wealth.....
you must not forget that you are not singly handed paying for the affodable housing scheme and a very small amount of your hard earned wages goes towards the scheme. So get over it.

texas star

I have been lucky enough to have got pulled out of the draw for DCC, for a 3 bedroom house in Finglas in a new development and Im single. As far as people saying the building arent up to scrath, bull****. The building have to meet EC regulations. I think the scheme is a brilliant one and without it I would never have been able to buy in Dublin ever. As for a paying over 35/30 yrs Im doing it over 25. I completly agree with CherieAmour on all points. I know no one in the DCC so its bull**** about brown envelopes. I feel sorry for you Cantab, becuase your seem like such a begrudger, and I do hope you get the house you really want

abi2007

congrats on the house texas star!

texas star

Thank you so much Abbi2007, Im so excited.:)

squarecon

You are right Cantab ths is not Russia we are living in but a democratic society with free trade to a european market of 350m people.

Brooklyn74

Congratulations Texas Star! I also was pulled out in the draw, for a 2 bedroom apartment in the city centre. It suits me perfectly as I have no desire ever to live in the suburbs, no intention of having children, no hang-ups about living in an apartment instead of a house. I would never have a snowball's chance in hell of owning a place like this without the affordable housing scheme.

The scheme is far from perfect (I'm finding out just how far every day!) and obviously changes need to be made but for me, it's working out wonderfully!

texas star

Congrates too you to Brookly74. Im exactly the same would never have been able to afford a place in Dublin. Are you really excited i am? Now I have to start saving and cut out my beering sessions :eek: .again congrats