07 VW Passat 1.9TDI v SAAB 93 1.8

smcgiff

Whippet,

Going by what you want I don't think you'd even get the basic spec 93SS for €35k. You'd definitely have to get the 1.8 litre (without the turbo) and I can tell you now not to bother test driving it. Because the SAAB you've in mind would have to be a turbo.

BTW, it should be pointed out that the 93 is faster and better handling than the 9000.

Your killing yourself by having to buy new. Go down even one year and you'd get the SAAB or other car you want. You'd still have one year warranty.

That's my 2 cents.

whippet

unfortunatly .. it has to be a new car, not even a 6month old would do !!! long, long story !!

Biro

whippet wrote:

I would love to drive the Alfa, but for 35K you would be looking at a 1.6 entry level and that doesn't ignite the fire like the 2L etc.

I might sound vague but hopefully after annoying all the dealers and driving some of the motors I will have a better idea.

The entry level Alfa is a 1.8 and is at 32,550. It's worth a trip to one to see what you can haggle on a straight deal.

Gerry

whippet wrote:

I do have a hankering for the SAAB and this probably has something to do with a childhood love for the 900 Turbo, I will probably be really dissapointed taking the test drive. I do like the look of the current 9-3 mind you.

The 9-3 is quite different to a vectra at this stage. Yes, it uses the same gm platform, but its a pretty good car. The turbodiesel is definitely better than the 1.9 in the passat. It looks sharp ( though not as nice as a decent 9-5 ), and handles well.
However, its nothing like a 900 turbo. If you buy one with a saab engine, it may share a handful of components with an old 900, like some of the bolts maybe. Thats it. If you want a 900 turbo, step back 1 or 2 years on your "new" car purchase, and buy a 900 turbo as well with what you've saved.
Sorry, just spotted that it has to be a new car, is this due to it being a company car, or is your wife insisting on an 07?

smcgiff

Biro wrote:

The entry level Alfa is a 1.8 and is at 32,550. It's worth a trip to one to see what you can haggle on a straight deal.

I'd much much much much more prefer an Alfa to a Passat.

whippet

Gerry wrote:

Sorry, just spotted that it has to be a new car, is this due to it being a company car, or is your wife insisting on an 07?

it's something along the lines of a company car .. it will be my own car but it has to be a new motor.

bazz26

Lex Luthor wrote:

I heard also that the new Passat is having teething problems.

The thing is though that new models may have teething problems which the manufacturer should sort out within about 12 months of the car being released.

The current Passat is on the market almost 2 years now and there is no sign of these problems going away. My uncle only has his 2007 1.6 litre Comfortline three and half weeks and it has already been back to the dealer for a false ECU error code.

While I understand cars are complex machinery and there is alot going in them these days plus some faults can only be detected out in the general public but it seems some car makers seem to let their customers find basic faults for them.

Sorry for going a bit OT.

Borzoi

Donie75 wrote:

I know a guy who got a new Saab 93 delivered recently. It was a base model with nice alloys and half leather and I think it cost around €38k.

Sounds expensive, I bought mine in March 06.

1.9 TDi 120BHP, Linear (so entry level), Metallic paint €35,500 Cash

And I like it a lot

Lex Luthor

If you're not choosy about a petrol or diesel then go for the Alfa...mind you in 5yrs time you will wish you went for something that held its value a lot better.
I felt the same about when I bought the 156, 7yrs ago. Thought I'd keep it for 4-5yrs aonly to be told 2yrs ago when I was thinking about selling it that I'd lose my house on it. Kind of wished I got something that held its value a bit more, but that idea popped into my head for just 2 seconds and then I said to myself that I was driving a nicer car than most saloons out there.
I think with cash you would get a 1.8 Sportivo for 34k.

ps I'm still driving the Alfa

Donie75

The Highline Passat comes with Half Leather, Half Alcantara(suede) seats. I think it's available in Cream, Black or grey.
It also comes with electrically adjustable Heated Seats.

Here's the full list from the VW website...

16” ‘adelaide’ Alloy Wheels With, 215/55 R16 Tyres
2 Cup Holders, Front
Auto Dimming Rear View Mirror & Rain Sensors
Burr Walnut Dash Inlays
Center Arm Rest Front, With Storage Box
Chrome Protective Strips Side & Rear
Chrome-plated Radiator Grill Frame
Chrome-plated Strips On Side Windows
Climatronic 2-zone Air-conditioning
Coming Home & Leaving Home Lights
Cruise Control
Decorative Inserts “black Point” Centre Console
Driver, Passenger & Side Airbags
Electric 6-way Driver Seat
Electric Parking Brake
Electrically Adjustable And Heated Door Mirrors
Esp With Edl & Asr
Front & Rear Electric Windows
Front & Rear Floor Mats
Head Curtain Airbags
Head Restraints & 3 Point Seat Belts On All Seats
Isofix Preparation For 2 Child Seats In Rear
Leather Steering Wheel (3-spoke)
Leather/alcantara Sports Seats (heated In Front)
Lumbar Support & Height Adjustment In Front Seats
On-board Computer
Passenger Airbag Deactivation Switch
Radio “rcd 300” With Single Cd Player & 8 Speakers
Rear Centre Armrest
Remote Central Locking With “press & Drive” System
Servotronic Power-steering
© Volkswagen Ireland 2007|Copyright|Terms & Conditions|PrivacyVOLKSWAGEN AG| Site built by Webzone.ie

unkel

At least test drive the 159!

The €34k 159 Turismo has alloys, aircon, CD. Leather is a reasonable €2k. Xenons €700. Tick a few more boxes and I'm sure the dealer will let you have it for €35k cash

The cheapest Accord is €35k and contrary to popular belief, has a fairly basic spec. You get alloys, but only disappointing 15" ones that look way too small in those huge arches. No leather or Xenons, but surely the dealer will throw that in

Is €35k the absolute maximum? You're starting to get into BMW 3-series territory there. €36k for the entry level with similar enough spec as above, but no alloys, seems good value. And it is slightly slower than above (think 0-100km/h in 11s rather than 10s - none of these are fast cars, none are slow)

bazz26

To be honest if it were my own money I would not buy a brand new Alfa 159. Nothing to do with the car itself but the depreciation is shocking on them like most Alfa Romeos. Unless you plan to keep the car for a long time or someone else is paying for it then it will be financial suicide to buy a new one imo. A 2 or 3 year old one will only be worth a fraction of the new price.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

The cheapest Accord is €35k and contrary to popular belief, has a fairly basic spec. You get alloys, but only disappointing 15" ones that look way too small in those huge arches. No leather or Xenons, but surely the dealer will throw that in

The Accord is still better value and equipped than the so called "premium" basic Audi A4 with it's 8 valve engine and manual rear wind up windows. Plus the Accord has an extra year's warranty.

Also a basic 3 Series without the optional extras has around the same standard equipment as the Accord.

Really depends what you want and expect from your money.

whippet

I will test the Alfa alright .. but it would have to be amazing to tempt me.

On another note .. the missus was watching a rerun of Top Gear on UKTV Gold and the Golf GTI really too her fancy. Looking at the prices we probably could stretch to the 5 door GTI .. but what is the difference between the Standard and the DSG model? I must say the GTI is tickling my fancy !!

Hopefully this weekend I will test the 9-3, Passat and the GTI !! so on monday I should have much better idea!!

Ice_Box

First official info if the new Mondeo is out now.

http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_news/10734_Geneva_debut_for_dramatic_new_Ford_Mondeo.php

bazz26

whippet wrote:

I will test the Alfa alright .. but it would have to be amazing to tempt me.

On another note .. the missus was watching a rerun of Top Gear on UKTV Gold and the Golf GTI really too her fancy. Looking at the prices we probably could stretch to the 5 door GTI .. but what is the difference between the Standard and the DSG model? I must say the GTI is tickling my fancy !!

Hopefully this weekend I will test the 9-3, Passat and the GTI !! so on monday I should have much better idea!!

The DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) allows you to change gears either manually or automatically using a double clutch system which makes changing gears alot faster than a standard gearbox.

The motoring press and people who have driven the DSG in general have nothing but high praise for it.

Biro

bazz26 wrote:

To be honest if it were my own money I would not buy a brand new Alfa 159. Nothing to do with the car itself but the depreciation is shocking on them like most Alfa Romeos. Unless you plan to keep the car for a long time or someone else is paying for it then it will be financial suicide to buy a new one imo. A 2 or 3 year old one will only be worth a fraction of the new price.

My reason for recommending it was in favour of a Saab 93. I really think it's a better buy. You get the same diesel engine in both, and the saab is depreciating to the same level almost as the 156 used to. I'm fairly confident that the 159 won't depreciate near as heavily as the 156. Look at the Alfa GT. My mate was looking at buying one, but the earliest ones ('04) are still very big money considering everyone says "Alfa's depreciate a lot". The GT is holding its value well given the price bracket.
The 159 will definately be more sellable and worth more in 5 years than the current 93, which is very old looking now and is due for replacement at the end of this year, which will have an even bigger effect on it. Aside from all that, the Alfa looks far better than the 93 (and everything else that was mentioned in this thread), and is cheaper for what you get too.

While I'm not knocking the 93, it's a fine car, I do think that at this stage in its life it would be a poor decision to buy one over a 159.
You really should just test drive the 159, Passat and GTi and leave the saab.

Biro

(I think the missus is wearing the trousers in this one!! Maybe she doesn't like the alfa... You sure your username shouldn't have a "d" at the end of it rather than a "t"?!?)

whippet

not at all !! there will be an addition to the family hopefully in the next year or so .. so this obviously affects the thinking!! she likes her motors as much as me ... she really wants the Alfa Berea or GT but with only 3 doors not practical !!

bazz26

Biro wrote:

My reason for recommending it was in favour of a Saab 93. I really think it's a better buy. You get the same diesel engine in both, and the saab is depreciating to the same level almost as the 156 used to. I'm fairly confident that the 159 won't depreciate near as heavily as the 156. Look at the Alfa GT. My mate was looking at buying one, but the earliest ones ('04) are still very big money considering everyone says "Alfa's depreciate a lot". The GT is holding its value well given the price bracket.
The 159 will definately be more sellable and worth more in 5 years than the current 93, which is very old looking now and is due for replacement at the end of this year, which will have an even bigger effect on it. Aside from all that, the Alfa looks far better than the 93 (and everything else that was mentioned in this thread), and is cheaper for what you get too.

While I'm not knocking the 93, it's a fine car, I do think that at this stage in its life it would be a poor decision to buy one over a 159.
You really should just test drive the 159, Passat and GTi and leave the saab.

I hear what you are saying but I think the fact that the GT is a coupe in a niche market helps it keep it's value alot better.

In fairness the 159 is a 4 door saloon, granted not a run of the mill sales rep one but I still think it will depreciate fairly quick due to the bad image Alfa Romeo carries within the motor trade and public. Also they do not seem to be as popular as the 156 was when it was launched.

If I was making a car only decision I would buy the 159 over the 9-3 everyday of the week. But if it were a financial decision I would not buy either car new to be honest.

So I think the OP needs to decide if his decision is being based on buying a nice car that he will be happy with and to hell with depreciation or to buy an ok car that you will get some of your money back on in a couple of years time.

The OP mentioned the Golf GTi so maybe that could be a nice compromise between nice car to drive and still have a good resale value come selling time.

Actually just as I think of it has the OP looked at the Skoda Octavia vRS in petrol or diesel form? The petrol vRS has the same 200bhp 2.0 TFSi engine found in the Golf GTi. The diesel vRS has a 170bhp 2.0 TDi engine. Both versions come in below your €35k budget. Might be worth a look.

Biro

bazz26 wrote:

I hear what you are saying but I think the fact that the GT is a coupe in a niche market helps it keep it's value alot better.

In fairness the 159 is a 4 door saloon, granted not a run of the mill sales rep one but I still think it will depreciate fairly quick due to the bad image Alfa Romeo carries within the motor trade and public. Also they do not seem to be as popular as the 156 was when it was launched.

If I was making a car only decision I would buy the 159 over the 9-3 everyday of the week. But if it were a financial decision I would not buy either car new to be honest.

So I think the OP needs to decide if his decision is being based on buying a nice car that he will be happy with and to hell with depreciation or to buy an ok car that you will get some of your money back on in a couple of years time.

The OP mentioned the Golf GTi so maybe that could be a nice compromise between nice car to drive and still have a good resale value come selling time.

Actually just as I think of it has the OP looked at the Skoda Octavia vRS in petrol or diesel form? The petrol vRS has the same 200bhp 2.0 TFSi engine found in the Golf GTi. The diesel vRS has a 170bhp 2.0 TDi engine. Both versions come in below your €35k budget. Might be worth a look.

True, the saloon probably won't hold it's value as much as the GT. And I'd agree, if I was concerned about depreciation then I would buy neither a 159 or 93... but seeing as the OP was seriosuly considering the 93, I hence recommended the Alfa!
Good point about the vRS too, both are well spec'd and good cars. Also, might be worth looking at the Seat Leon also, for the same 2 engines.

Lex Luthor

bazz26 wrote:

Actually just as I think of it has the OP looked at the Skoda Octavia vRS in petrol or diesel form? The petrol vRS has the same 200bhp 2.0 TFSi engine found in the Golf GTi. The diesel vRS has a 170bhp 2.0 TDi engine. Both versions come in below your €35k budget. Might be worth a look.

You beat me to it bazz....I was driving home yesterday and it popped into my head.

whippet

I have booked a test drive for saturday for the GTI and I am really excited by it. The DSG box is an additional €1900 .. so it will be going well over the budget .. but I think I could live with that !!

I don't like the Scoda, as I mentioned earlier, despite all the positive review etc .. the Leon would be a contender but I do like the look of the golf and it is igniting a childish desire in me at the moment !!

at the moment its:

1) GTI (non-DSG)
2) GTI DSG (if it really is worth it)
3) SAAB 9-3 1.8 Linear
4) Passat 1.9TDI HighLine
5) Accord
6) Leon 2.0T

.... I feel like a kid waiting for christmas with the Smyths catalogue !!

smcgiff

Whippet, as a 2.0t SAAB 93 driver (and disagreeing with other commentators above) the choice from the above (including the 1.8 linnear) is a no brainer.

The Golf GTI. 0-62 in 7.2s. In fact I didn't realise you could get it for that kind of money. :eek:

Rock on!

Lex Luthor

afaik, the current golf is due a replacement next year....it has been pulled in a year due to poor sales from what I remember

whippet

Lex Luthor wrote:

afaik, the current golf is due a replacement next year....it has been pulled in a year due to poor sales from what I remember

Where did you hear about this?

I thought the GTI was a great seller .. there is plenty on the road .. the UK is full of them and I have not read a bad review yet?

the GTI (non-dsg) 5 door with metalic paint is list about €37k ... with a bit of haggling and being in a position to place a firm order while haggling .. I should get a decent discount that would cover the cost of full leather !! fingers crossed.

Biro

Don't bother wasting time with the rest. Just go to the VW dealer and testdrive the GTI, and go to the Seat dealer and testdrive the Leon Cupra (more power than the GTI, but not as sharp handling).
Mark VI golf is being released sooner than expected not because of poor sales of the mk V, but because of it costing too much money and taking too long to manufacture because of the complex independant rear suspension.
It's a money thing!
Do test drive the Leon though, and let us know which you prefer and why.

PaulieC

The Golf is being replaced in mid-to-late 2008 on the continent, which means it will be here in early 2009. The reason for the relatively short shelf life is the cost of production which is too high. The replacement will cost less to produce per unit. It will look similar (big shock there!!)

bazz26

whippet wrote:

Where did you hear about this?

I thought the GTI was a great seller .. there is plenty on the road .. the UK is full of them and I have not read a bad review yet?

the GTI (non-dsg) 5 door with metalic paint is list about €37k ... with a bit of haggling and being in a position to place a firm order while haggling .. I should get a decent discount that would cover the cost of full leather !! fingers crossed.

Read this: http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/16/autobild-has-info-on-2008-vw-golf-mk-vi/

VW are also launching a 30th Anniversary edition of the current MKV Golf GTi with 220/230bhp in the next couple of months.

Biro

bazz26 wrote:

Read this: http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/16/autobild-has-info-on-2008-vw-golf-mk-vi/

VW are also launching a 30th Anniversary edition of the current MKV Golf GTi with 220/230bhp in the next couple of months.

Thats already out, and I've read two reports on it, and both said that it's worse than the standard one, the power increase is not really enough to make a difference, and the suspension is lower and the handling and ride suffers as a result, whereas the standard one was fine the way it was. They also didn't like the revised grille!