07 VW Passat 1.9TDI v SAAB 93 1.8

whippet

I have about 35K and before I start the trawl of dealers and test driving .. I have been toying about between a Passat or a SAAB 93 .. I would like to know you opinions before I go test driving in the next week or so !!

Also any other suggestions for a mid range saloon max €35-35K.

... please no 'How about a skoda' posts .. i just don't like them !!

what_car

ok.. my thoughts...

saab= glorified opel,, high depreciation, and pricey too i think..

vw passat, nice car, depreciation high too, see second hand prices on carzone... only2 yr warranty,,, i hear the button handbrake is a pain...


volvo s40 - dont go ther! trust me


leaves the avensis 2.0 D4D Luna ( top spec)

has cruise control, 6 speed gearbox, auto lights, chromatic mirror, auto wipers, full electric windows, electric heated and retractable wing mirrors.. climate control...etc etc

its not the best looking car, but very very very reliable, easy on fuel, i am averaging over 50 mpg , and i calculated this a few times using the fill tank method,,, per tank. its a nice roomy car quite roomy actually.. the 6 speed gearbox is nice... i rekon it will be a good seller second hand also, the diesel avensis seem to hold their value, check it out on carzone.

oh yea, toyota have 3 year warranty!

just my thoughts...if ur a cash buyer you would have change for a nice family holiday out of the 35 k if u went for the avensis luna diesel.

bazz26

whippet wrote:

I have about 35K and before I start the trawl of dealers and test driving .. I have been toying about between a Passat or a SAAB 93 .. I would like to know you opinions before I go test driving in the next week or so !!

Also any other suggestions for a mid range saloon max €35-35K.

... please no 'How about a skoda' posts .. i just don't like them !!

The 1.9 TDi engine in the Passat only has 105bhp. It is a bit noisy, course and sluggish in the Passat, really is showing its age. The 2.0 TDi is light years ahead of it but expensive. Just a warning though about the new Passat, there are lots of niggly problems with them that VW cannot seem to sort out despite being on the market almost 2 years now. Engine stalling for no reason, false ECU error codes appearing and the electronic handbrake sticking.

Regarding the Saab 9-3 as others have said it is based on the Opel Vectra platform and some traditional Saab drivers have been disappointed with the car in general. On the plus side the new 1.9 TiD engine which is made by Fiat is highly regarding by the motoring world. Not sure how reliable the rest of the car is or how the resale value works out on the diesel model.

Others to think about are as already mentioned Toyota Avensis 2.0 or 2.2 D4-D. Also maybe a 2006 Honda Accord 2.2 diesel may fall within your budget if you don't have to have a new car. There is also a new Ford Mondeo around the corner which will be available in 1.8 and 2.0 TDCi. Not sure if it will hold it's value well if traditional Mondeo depreciation is anything to go by. Another one to look at is the Mazda 6 2.0 TD which has dropped in price recently, downside is that the 6 is due to be replaced by a new model towards the end of the year.

TomMc

Forget the VW or Saab - Go for a properly engineered car and one that w'ont let you down.

If a petrol suits your needs and it must be brand new, then something like this

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=592489

The Estate would be a better all round option though, for both practical use and better residual values.

whippet

I was thinking of the 2.0L TDI passat but it is a bit pricy and by the time you get a decent spec it would be out of budget, likewise with the JTD SAAB .. but I reckon the SAAB would have a better standard spec.

I really don't like the avensis ... I know it is a great car and all that but lookswise it doesn't do it for me and after a week I would be bored with it.

the Accord is a good option coming in at about 35K on carzone .. I think that will be on the list for a test drive.

bazz .. you say that 93 owners in general haven't been happy with the car .. what are their main complaints?

whippet

TomMc wrote:

Forget the VW or Saab - Go for a properly engineered car and one that w'ont let you down.

If a petrol suits your needs and it must be brand new, then something like this

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=592489

The Estate would be a better all round option though, for both practical use and better residual values.

I do like the legacy but they are very very very thirsty !!!

TomMc

I would not call low to mid 30's MPG very thirsty. Remember it's the 2.0L Legacy not the 2.5 or 3.0 we are talking about. Servicing costs are not bad either.

FWIW ... My wife has one (2.0L Legacy) and I enjoy driving it more than my 535d.

Ice_Box

Prius perhaps? Very cool car imo

Lex Luthor

If its your own money, I would suggest the Avensis 2.0D4D luna
if its a company car and skies you limit as far as choice, then
http://cbg.ie/newcars/Alfa_Romeo/159/Saloon/Turismo_1.9_JTD_120_bhp.aspx

whippet

it is my own money ... unusual circumstances therefor has to be a new model .. the head would tell me a Toyota but my missus wouldn't agree .. she does like her cars also and wouldn't agree to an avensis .. the passat is as boring as she would agree to.

she could be tempted to an alfa if it was the GT but not the 157, plus for 35 your options would be limited with regards engine and spec.

The Accord is sounding good

Biro

whippet wrote:

it is my own money ... unusual circumstances therefor has to be a new model .. the head would tell me a Toyota but my missus wouldn't agree .. she does like her cars also and wouldn't agree to an avensis .. the passat is as boring as she would agree to.

she could be tempted to an alfa if it was the GT but not the 157, plus for 35 your options would be limited with regards engine and spec.

The Accord is sounding good

Accord would be the best choice.
The Alfa 159 (not 157) is in both my opinion and anyone I've spoken to who's seen one in the metal is the best looking saloon on the market. I drive a Saab 93 and was very disappointed, especially with the interior. It's around the same price as the 159, and seems to depreciate very heavily. Seeing as the 159 has the same engine for the same price, and I also reckon it'll depreciate less than the 93, then I reckon it's a far better buy. You really should go test drive one anyway. They look least impressive in silver.
The avensis has a small number of known problems, but can be sorted within warranty. The passat and avensis would be the two best in the class for depreciation. The 2.0tdi passat is the one to go for, if budget allows.

whippet

I do like the Alfa but again .. when you are buying at the entry level of a marque you will be getting entry level spec !!

The missus has just suggested an MX5 .. it would be great fun for the first week and then the practicallity would kill me !!

The accord does seem like a good choice .. what is the base spec like?

Biro

whippet wrote:

I do like the Alfa but again .. when you are buying at the entry level of a marque you will be getting entry level spec !!

The missus has just suggested an MX5 .. it would be great fun for the first week and then the practicallity would kill me !!

The accord does seem like a good choice .. what is the base spec like?

Are you planning new or a year or two old? And diesel or petrol? The diesel only sold in this country in the executive spec, which basically has the works. Leather and electric seats, dual zone climate, all that jazz (no pun intended!!). It's very dear as a result brand new, €43k.
I wouldn't worry about entry level spec, as you won't get your money back on it. Just think of a few essentials that you want in the car, then see if those are met by the entry spec. The entry spec Accord should be fairly good anyway, and for 35k in the 2 litre petrol you should be able to get a spec or two up from basic.
If you think the MX5 is an option, then you may aswell throw in the RX8 into the equation. 4 seats, reasonable boot and 4 doors!!

Lex Luthor

I've been driving a 156 for 7 yrs and would never really think about a Toyota, but their interiors are not as drab as they used to be.

I had a good look around the Avensis last week and the top spec is a nice motor inside. The cabin is surprisingly better than I expected.

The Accord would also be a good choice. I doubt you'll get the diesel for your budget though new

Mr. Pseudonym

I do like the legacy but they are very very very thirsty !!!

I drive an 04 2l legacy and I am getting avg. 37mpg out of it...and I can have a heavy foot at times!

Also with the legacy think of all the "extras" you get as standard... aircon, alloys, sunroof.

Mr. Pseudonym

I do like the legacy but they are very very very thirsty !!!

I drive an 04 2l legacy and I am getting avg. 37mpg out of it...and I can have a heavy foot at times!

Also with the legacy think of all the "extras" you get as standard... aircon, alloys, sunroof...not to mention the AWD!

Lex Luthor

whippet, what do you want? a diesel or petrol? Your 2 choices are different, ones a diesel, ones a petrol.

bazz26

whippet wrote:

bazz .. you say that 93 owners in general haven't been happy with the car .. what are their main complaints?

My boss at work was a total Saab head, he had been driving 900s, 9000s, etc for years and then bought a 2004 9-3. He absolutely hates it, he says it just doesn't feel or drive like the Saabs of old. One of the things that drew him to the brand was the uniqueness of the brand, he loved the turbo models of the 80s and early 90s, he reckons the 9-3 and 9-5 just do what others do these days, nothing special anymore. He has totally gone off the marque now that it is under GM corporate ownership and will not be buying another one. He knows of other owners who are equally disappointed.

whippet

with regards to diesel or petrol .. it doesn't really matter but I would prefer diesel .. however this tends to limit your options on the spec.

Apart from earlier SAAB lovers not liking the car as it has gone from it's roots of the old 900 Turbo etc ... what is the build quality like?

My mileage will not be too high but with the prospect of kids on the horizon it needs to be practical.

I would love an RX8 but a little too steep !!

smcgiff

Hello Whippet,

I’ve been driving a 2.0t Saab 9-3 for the last year (changing from an A6 1.8T) – I haven’t looked back since. And as for someone saying the Saab is just an Opel, then that says more about their gullibility in believing in a soundbyte than anything else. The cars share the same platform – that’s all.

Take the car for a test drive, although to get the best out of a Saab you should really get a turbo version. For €35k you could get a couple of years old Aero – a monster of a car. I wouldn’t buy Saab new unless you intend keeping it a minimum of five years.

bazz26

whippet wrote:

I would love an RX8 but a little too steep !!

New they are outside your €35k budget but if you are open to a fairly new one then you have options:

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=599577

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=584007

Only downside is poor mpg and the need for an oil top up a bit more regularly than your standard motor. The pros outway the cons here imo.

The 230bhp version is the one to go for but the basic 190bhp version is no snail either.

whippet

for reasons I won't go into the car has to be new!! so the RX8 is out of the question.

on reliability stakes what is the SAAB like, I've heard alot about the passat and I know a few people who have them.

I will take the 9-3 and the Accord for a spin in the next week and let you know how I find it, I have driven the passat before and I quite liked it, it might look somewhat boring but I really liked the interior space and driving position.

As for the legacy, the missus won't have it .. she really hates the look !!

smcgiff

I’ve only had my SAAB a year, and no problems. Hoever, AFAIK the 93 is due a face lift in 2007. I’d hate to buy a car only for it to become “old” within a year.

The new Passat is supposed to be going through problems. VW in general doesn’t have a great reputation. This is surprising, but not as surprising at how long it’s taking for this information to filter into the zeitgeist.

Taking the cars for a test drive is a good idea!

You can get a lot of cars for €35k - Good luck.

TomMc

whippet wrote:

As for the legacy, the missus won't have it .. she really hates the look !!

Women, hey !

My nearest & dearest thinks our Scooby Estate is a beauty - and she has great taste - she married me after all !!!:D



You wll find that lighter colours suit them best:cool:

http://www.subaru.ie/IMGIE/WWW/subaru_ie.nsf/LiveByRef/SDUE-69ALMW?OpenDocument

Lex Luthor

Mine is the same when it comes to Subarus....she dont like the look of them either. But at least she doesn't choose my car

I heard also that the new Passat is having teething problems. I think the Saab will cost you a lot in depreciation and as some already have said, they are not the car they used to be.

You never answered my question....do you want petrol or diesel?

rebel.ranter

You now have me really intrigued as to why it has to be new!
There are some really really nice 2nd hand cars for the money with all the toys. But needs must!
From your posts it's seems like you have a slight hankering for a SAAB.
The Toyota is the one to buy with your sensible head on. The Alfa is the one you buy with your heart (or companies money!). Everything else is in between.
If you are not doing that many miles why go for a diesel? They are more noisy & less powerful for the same amount of road tax. Pus Diesels are normally poorly specced in this country because of VRT (by this I mean the Diesel is always more expensive so to cut the costs back they minimise on the options to keep the prices down).
The only thing I find about Hondas is that while they are new they look ultra modern. However once they are a few years old they date very quickly.
If you are trying to decide on pertol or diesel purely from a cost point of view work out your average yearly mileage (which you probably already know), then look at the MPG figures for your cars, take the price or Petrol & Diesel proces from your local garage & do the sums.

Biro

The other thing that has me intrigued is how the OP seems very scared about buying any car thats the base model or entry level spec.
Why don't you list the "extras" that you have to have, and the ones you'd like to have and we'll see then what fits the bill.

whippet

right ... where do I start ....

Petrol or diesel ... I suppose it does not really matter .. but I have driven a 1.6L passat and found it very sluggish .. the next step is the 1.9TDI.

I do have a hankering for the SAAB and this probably has something to do with a childhood love for the 900 Turbo, I will probably be really dissapointed taking the test drive. I do like the look of the current 9-3 mind you.

With regards to spec levels, I want Climate control, at least half leather, decent looking alloys, and as many toys to play with as possible.

A guy I know has the 1.9TDI passat with the half leather, winter pack and integrated phone etc .. which I think came in at about €35K. a good spec for the money IMO.

Auto v Manual does not really bother me, auto would be nice but by no means essential … reliability would be obviously important as I wouldn’t be anywhere near a DIY mechanic. Depreciation isn’t as big as concern as most considering I will be holding on to this car for at least five years.

The astetics of the car are important, I just couldn't live with a bland jap design (I know the passat falls into this bracket but I do like the looks of it) .. I do share the opinion that hondas don't seem to age to well lookswise, but the Accord at the moment is a nice looking card.

I would love to drive the Alfa, but for 35K you would be looking at a 1.6 entry level and that doesn't ignite the fire like the 2L etc.

I might sound vague but hopefully after annoying all the dealers and driving some of the motors I will have a better idea.

whippet

Biro wrote:

The other thing that has me intrigued is how the OP seems very scared about buying any car thats the base model or entry level spec.
Why don't you list the "extras" that you have to have, and the ones you'd like to have and we'll see then what fits the bill.

it is not so much being scared of the entry spec .. it is more to do with being out of budget.

if the entry list is €35k, which is my budget then anything extra will put me over!!

Donie75

I'm looking at buying a Passat 1.9tdi Highline with the Le Mans sport pack, metallic paint, multifunction steering wheel and Ipod dock. On a straight deal with no trade in I'm getting quotes just under €35k. The Le Mans pack includes 17 inch Le Mans alloys, Sports suspension, fog lights and rear tinted windows. A few friens have the new Passat and none have had any problems.
I know a guy who got a new Saab 93 delivered recently. It was a base model with nice alloys and half leather and I think it cost around €38k.

whippet

that is a nice spec alright .. are they cloth or leather seats?

smcgiff

Whippet,

Going by what you want I don't think you'd even get the basic spec 93SS for €35k. You'd definitely have to get the 1.8 litre (without the turbo) and I can tell you now not to bother test driving it. Because the SAAB you've in mind would have to be a turbo.

BTW, it should be pointed out that the 93 is faster and better handling than the 9000.

Your killing yourself by having to buy new. Go down even one year and you'd get the SAAB or other car you want. You'd still have one year warranty.

That's my 2 cents.

whippet

unfortunatly .. it has to be a new car, not even a 6month old would do !!! long, long story !!

Biro

whippet wrote:

I would love to drive the Alfa, but for 35K you would be looking at a 1.6 entry level and that doesn't ignite the fire like the 2L etc.

I might sound vague but hopefully after annoying all the dealers and driving some of the motors I will have a better idea.

The entry level Alfa is a 1.8 and is at 32,550. It's worth a trip to one to see what you can haggle on a straight deal.

Gerry

whippet wrote:

I do have a hankering for the SAAB and this probably has something to do with a childhood love for the 900 Turbo, I will probably be really dissapointed taking the test drive. I do like the look of the current 9-3 mind you.

The 9-3 is quite different to a vectra at this stage. Yes, it uses the same gm platform, but its a pretty good car. The turbodiesel is definitely better than the 1.9 in the passat. It looks sharp ( though not as nice as a decent 9-5 ), and handles well.
However, its nothing like a 900 turbo. If you buy one with a saab engine, it may share a handful of components with an old 900, like some of the bolts maybe. Thats it. If you want a 900 turbo, step back 1 or 2 years on your "new" car purchase, and buy a 900 turbo as well with what you've saved.
Sorry, just spotted that it has to be a new car, is this due to it being a company car, or is your wife insisting on an 07?

smcgiff

Biro wrote:

The entry level Alfa is a 1.8 and is at 32,550. It's worth a trip to one to see what you can haggle on a straight deal.

I'd much much much much more prefer an Alfa to a Passat.

whippet

Gerry wrote:

Sorry, just spotted that it has to be a new car, is this due to it being a company car, or is your wife insisting on an 07?

it's something along the lines of a company car .. it will be my own car but it has to be a new motor.

bazz26

Lex Luthor wrote:

I heard also that the new Passat is having teething problems.

The thing is though that new models may have teething problems which the manufacturer should sort out within about 12 months of the car being released.

The current Passat is on the market almost 2 years now and there is no sign of these problems going away. My uncle only has his 2007 1.6 litre Comfortline three and half weeks and it has already been back to the dealer for a false ECU error code.

While I understand cars are complex machinery and there is alot going in them these days plus some faults can only be detected out in the general public but it seems some car makers seem to let their customers find basic faults for them.

Sorry for going a bit OT.

Borzoi

Donie75 wrote:

I know a guy who got a new Saab 93 delivered recently. It was a base model with nice alloys and half leather and I think it cost around €38k.

Sounds expensive, I bought mine in March 06.

1.9 TDi 120BHP, Linear (so entry level), Metallic paint €35,500 Cash

And I like it a lot

Lex Luthor

If you're not choosy about a petrol or diesel then go for the Alfa...mind you in 5yrs time you will wish you went for something that held its value a lot better.
I felt the same about when I bought the 156, 7yrs ago. Thought I'd keep it for 4-5yrs aonly to be told 2yrs ago when I was thinking about selling it that I'd lose my house on it. Kind of wished I got something that held its value a bit more, but that idea popped into my head for just 2 seconds and then I said to myself that I was driving a nicer car than most saloons out there.
I think with cash you would get a 1.8 Sportivo for 34k.

ps I'm still driving the Alfa

Donie75

The Highline Passat comes with Half Leather, Half Alcantara(suede) seats. I think it's available in Cream, Black or grey.
It also comes with electrically adjustable Heated Seats.

Here's the full list from the VW website...

16” ‘adelaide’ Alloy Wheels With, 215/55 R16 Tyres
2 Cup Holders, Front
Auto Dimming Rear View Mirror & Rain Sensors
Burr Walnut Dash Inlays
Center Arm Rest Front, With Storage Box
Chrome Protective Strips Side & Rear
Chrome-plated Radiator Grill Frame
Chrome-plated Strips On Side Windows
Climatronic 2-zone Air-conditioning
Coming Home & Leaving Home Lights
Cruise Control
Decorative Inserts “black Point” Centre Console
Driver, Passenger & Side Airbags
Electric 6-way Driver Seat
Electric Parking Brake
Electrically Adjustable And Heated Door Mirrors
Esp With Edl & Asr
Front & Rear Electric Windows
Front & Rear Floor Mats
Head Curtain Airbags
Head Restraints & 3 Point Seat Belts On All Seats
Isofix Preparation For 2 Child Seats In Rear
Leather Steering Wheel (3-spoke)
Leather/alcantara Sports Seats (heated In Front)
Lumbar Support & Height Adjustment In Front Seats
On-board Computer
Passenger Airbag Deactivation Switch
Radio “rcd 300” With Single Cd Player & 8 Speakers
Rear Centre Armrest
Remote Central Locking With “press & Drive” System
Servotronic Power-steering
© Volkswagen Ireland 2007|Copyright|Terms & Conditions|PrivacyVOLKSWAGEN AG| Site built by Webzone.ie

unkel

At least test drive the 159!

The €34k 159 Turismo has alloys, aircon, CD. Leather is a reasonable €2k. Xenons €700. Tick a few more boxes and I'm sure the dealer will let you have it for €35k cash

The cheapest Accord is €35k and contrary to popular belief, has a fairly basic spec. You get alloys, but only disappointing 15" ones that look way too small in those huge arches. No leather or Xenons, but surely the dealer will throw that in

Is €35k the absolute maximum? You're starting to get into BMW 3-series territory there. €36k for the entry level with similar enough spec as above, but no alloys, seems good value. And it is slightly slower than above (think 0-100km/h in 11s rather than 10s - none of these are fast cars, none are slow)

bazz26

To be honest if it were my own money I would not buy a brand new Alfa 159. Nothing to do with the car itself but the depreciation is shocking on them like most Alfa Romeos. Unless you plan to keep the car for a long time or someone else is paying for it then it will be financial suicide to buy a new one imo. A 2 or 3 year old one will only be worth a fraction of the new price.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

The cheapest Accord is €35k and contrary to popular belief, has a fairly basic spec. You get alloys, but only disappointing 15" ones that look way too small in those huge arches. No leather or Xenons, but surely the dealer will throw that in

The Accord is still better value and equipped than the so called "premium" basic Audi A4 with it's 8 valve engine and manual rear wind up windows. Plus the Accord has an extra year's warranty.

Also a basic 3 Series without the optional extras has around the same standard equipment as the Accord.

Really depends what you want and expect from your money.

whippet

I will test the Alfa alright .. but it would have to be amazing to tempt me.

On another note .. the missus was watching a rerun of Top Gear on UKTV Gold and the Golf GTI really too her fancy. Looking at the prices we probably could stretch to the 5 door GTI .. but what is the difference between the Standard and the DSG model? I must say the GTI is tickling my fancy !!

Hopefully this weekend I will test the 9-3, Passat and the GTI !! so on monday I should have much better idea!!

Ice_Box

First official info if the new Mondeo is out now.

http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_news/10734_Geneva_debut_for_dramatic_new_Ford_Mondeo.php

bazz26

whippet wrote:

I will test the Alfa alright .. but it would have to be amazing to tempt me.

On another note .. the missus was watching a rerun of Top Gear on UKTV Gold and the Golf GTI really too her fancy. Looking at the prices we probably could stretch to the 5 door GTI .. but what is the difference between the Standard and the DSG model? I must say the GTI is tickling my fancy !!

Hopefully this weekend I will test the 9-3, Passat and the GTI !! so on monday I should have much better idea!!

The DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) allows you to change gears either manually or automatically using a double clutch system which makes changing gears alot faster than a standard gearbox.

The motoring press and people who have driven the DSG in general have nothing but high praise for it.

Biro

bazz26 wrote:

To be honest if it were my own money I would not buy a brand new Alfa 159. Nothing to do with the car itself but the depreciation is shocking on them like most Alfa Romeos. Unless you plan to keep the car for a long time or someone else is paying for it then it will be financial suicide to buy a new one imo. A 2 or 3 year old one will only be worth a fraction of the new price.

My reason for recommending it was in favour of a Saab 93. I really think it's a better buy. You get the same diesel engine in both, and the saab is depreciating to the same level almost as the 156 used to. I'm fairly confident that the 159 won't depreciate near as heavily as the 156. Look at the Alfa GT. My mate was looking at buying one, but the earliest ones ('04) are still very big money considering everyone says "Alfa's depreciate a lot". The GT is holding its value well given the price bracket.
The 159 will definately be more sellable and worth more in 5 years than the current 93, which is very old looking now and is due for replacement at the end of this year, which will have an even bigger effect on it. Aside from all that, the Alfa looks far better than the 93 (and everything else that was mentioned in this thread), and is cheaper for what you get too.

While I'm not knocking the 93, it's a fine car, I do think that at this stage in its life it would be a poor decision to buy one over a 159.
You really should just test drive the 159, Passat and GTi and leave the saab.

Biro

(I think the missus is wearing the trousers in this one!! Maybe she doesn't like the alfa... You sure your username shouldn't have a "d" at the end of it rather than a "t"?!?)

whippet

not at all !! there will be an addition to the family hopefully in the next year or so .. so this obviously affects the thinking!! she likes her motors as much as me ... she really wants the Alfa Berea or GT but with only 3 doors not practical !!

bazz26

Biro wrote:

My reason for recommending it was in favour of a Saab 93. I really think it's a better buy. You get the same diesel engine in both, and the saab is depreciating to the same level almost as the 156 used to. I'm fairly confident that the 159 won't depreciate near as heavily as the 156. Look at the Alfa GT. My mate was looking at buying one, but the earliest ones ('04) are still very big money considering everyone says "Alfa's depreciate a lot". The GT is holding its value well given the price bracket.
The 159 will definately be more sellable and worth more in 5 years than the current 93, which is very old looking now and is due for replacement at the end of this year, which will have an even bigger effect on it. Aside from all that, the Alfa looks far better than the 93 (and everything else that was mentioned in this thread), and is cheaper for what you get too.

While I'm not knocking the 93, it's a fine car, I do think that at this stage in its life it would be a poor decision to buy one over a 159.
You really should just test drive the 159, Passat and GTi and leave the saab.

I hear what you are saying but I think the fact that the GT is a coupe in a niche market helps it keep it's value alot better.

In fairness the 159 is a 4 door saloon, granted not a run of the mill sales rep one but I still think it will depreciate fairly quick due to the bad image Alfa Romeo carries within the motor trade and public. Also they do not seem to be as popular as the 156 was when it was launched.

If I was making a car only decision I would buy the 159 over the 9-3 everyday of the week. But if it were a financial decision I would not buy either car new to be honest.

So I think the OP needs to decide if his decision is being based on buying a nice car that he will be happy with and to hell with depreciation or to buy an ok car that you will get some of your money back on in a couple of years time.

The OP mentioned the Golf GTi so maybe that could be a nice compromise between nice car to drive and still have a good resale value come selling time.

Actually just as I think of it has the OP looked at the Skoda Octavia vRS in petrol or diesel form? The petrol vRS has the same 200bhp 2.0 TFSi engine found in the Golf GTi. The diesel vRS has a 170bhp 2.0 TDi engine. Both versions come in below your €35k budget. Might be worth a look.