Engagement Ring - FACTS, not fiction

Tom123

I suppose it is a matter of opinion but what do people think is better

1. Go for a large diamond with poorer colour and clarity.
2. Go for a smaller diamond with the best colour and clarity.

Is the difference between IF, VVS1-2, VS1-2, noticeable to the naked eye.

LashingLady

Hi Tom,

As a woman who is slightly obsessed with diamonds, I would say that for me the ranking of the 3 c's is: 1. Cut 2. Colour 3. Carat then 4. clarity

Based on my experience looking at diamonds when I was shopping for my e-ring and also doing online research before that, inclusions are not visible to the naked eye in clarities right down to SI1 and "eye-clean" SI2.

I think there are some who think that the higher clarity enhances the look of the diamond as there's less chance that light return will be affected by inclusions and blemishes....

But I think a lot of people agree that it's a good cut which is most important to the look and sparkle of the diamond, regardless of the clarity.

I think colour is kinda personal. I have a G diamond which looks perfectly white to me. When I was buying it I also looked at a H, which I really noticed the difference. I think there are some people who wouldn't see the difference, and also some who would find G not white enough!! You would just have to look around....

In the end of the day, you need to look at the different combos of clarity and colour diamonds and get out looking at diamonds to find the right one for you. I would defo compromise on clarity to get a bigger, well-cut stone rather than be caught up with a flawless diamond!

keyes

Tom123 wrote: »

I suppose it is a matter of opinion but what do people think is better

1. Go for a large diamond with poorer colour and clarity.
2. Go for a smaller diamond with the best colour and clarity.

Is the difference between IF, VVS1-2, VS1-2, noticeable to the naked eye.

i would think for long term happiness with the stone, option 2 is better, provided that the stone isn't tiny!

to tell the difference between flawless and vvs you'll need a microscope, and some training. the reason some people go for flawless is not because anyone else will know, but because they will know. VS will be eye-clean, as will some SI1s. some SI2s have eye-visible inclusions, some don't. it's down to the nature, position, size, number and relief of the inclusion(s).

Also, and at the risk of opening a can of worms, the certing laboratory has a hand in it too. some labs are more generous with their grading than others. it's worthwhile asking to only view stones with good certificates.

generally people will see colour first - the difference between a D and a H, for example, is amazing. colour is always worth having, the diamond will always look beautiful. it's the one thing, more so than any of the other 3 c's, that makes a diamond beautiful. when a stone appears to have amazing sparkle, i find it's always a high colour. clarity has only a small part to play in it. and carat is just the weight of the stone, it has nothing to do with quality.

....mind you, when a girl gets engaged, i bet that the question she gets asked by her friends most often is "how many carats?", not "what's the colour?"...

lashinglady makes a good point about a well-cut diamond, though that's something the shop should have already done for you- a reputable shop won't go around offering poorly-cut diamonds.

ChocolateOrange

I completely agree with Keyes. My stone is E and the sparkle on it is fantastic.

threeleggedhors

I bought an engagment ring from a reputable jewellers. I had a few other jewellers look at and all said the sapphire in the ring was a very good quality rock. However, 3 years after buying it the missus had it cleaned professionally and after we noticed what appeared to be a scratch on the surface. Sent it back to be examined and it turns out it was an impurity in the ring. Why did cleaning it bring it to the surface? Why didn't anyone notice it before in the stone? The guy who cleaned says he's never seen it happen before and showed it to some colleagues who've never known it to happen. Since then it's been replaced with another sapphire. Oh women, very expensive ye are !!!!

keyes

threeleggedhors wrote: »

Sent it back to be examined and it turns out it was an impurity in the ring. Why did cleaning it bring it to the surface?

PM sent.

Tom123

I got a quote for a ring from a jeweler and was wondering if it is competitive.

Solitaire dmd shoulders C1.01 S0.38 D SI1 €8,500
I think this ring is perfect but was wondering if anyone has any idea how much it would cost to change to a 1.25 or 1.5 C?
Would it be better to reduce the colour to E or F to get a larger stone? And how much would this cost.

Thanks for all the help

keyes

Tom123 wrote: »

I got a quote for a ring from a jeweler and was wondering if it is competitive.

Solitaire dmd shoulders C1.01 S0.38 D SI1 €8,500
I think this ring is perfect but was wondering if anyone has any idea how much it would cost to change to a 1.25 or 1.5 C?
Would it be better to reduce the colour to E or F to get a larger stone? And how much would this cost.

Thanks for all the help

could get pricey to up the size to 1.5 - you'd probably be talking about doubling the price of a 1ct.

and i'd rather the brightness of a D any day of the week

as far as price goes, that's your call- weigh up the safety and convenience of dealing with someone local, who can attend to any problems you may have (resizing, maintenance, tightening claws, updating insurance valuations, etc) with going online for a major purchase of an item about which you know very little.

if you haggle a bit, plus with the weakness of the dollar, most shops won't be far off internet prices (when you factor in a setting too!)

Tom123

keyes wrote: »

could get pricey to up the size to 1.5 - you'd probably be talking about doubling the price of a 1ct.

and i'd rather the brightness of a D any day of the week

as far as price goes, that's your call- weigh up the safety and convenience of dealing with someone local, who can attend to any problems you may have (resizing, maintenance, tightening claws, updating insurance valuations, etc) with going online for a major purchase of an item about which you know very little.

if you haggle a bit, plus with the weakness of the dollar, most shops won't be far off internet prices (when you factor in a setting too!)

Thanks for the advise Keyes.
Well I had budgeted to spend a little more, do you think i would be able to get the same ring with a 1.25 ct for less than €10k in Dublin.

To be honest the more i think about the less comfortable I am about buying off the internet. Anyone recommend some competitive jewelers in Dublin City.

Cheers

Poncherello

Tom go to new York with your 10K.
You will get close enough to 2C i.e the ring of her dreams
It is an absolute no brainer

the history of

GOOD INFO-SPOT ON.

Buy in Ireland, from a recommended Jeweller.

Travelling abroad for that Bargain!!-Bad idea= bad quality stones, flawed stones, inferior quality and colour, J down.

Shop around too, look for somebody who actually works with the materials i.e. from the metals to the stones. Salespeople perform a sales job, beware of that hard sale. Platnum isnt always best-sales people push it upon you for maximum profit. stick to you budget.

Its an important decision, buy in Ireland.

Sizzler

the history of wrote: »

GOOD INFO-SPOT ON.

Buy in Ireland, from a recommended Jeweller.

Travelling abroad for that Bargain!!-Bad idea= bad quality stones, flawed stones, inferior quality and colour, J down.

Shop around too, look for somebody who actually works with the materials i.e. from the metals to the stones. Salespeople perform a sales job, beware of that hard sale. Platnum isnt always best-sales people push it upon you for maximum profit. stick to you budget.

Its an important decision, buy in Ireland.

WTF? Flawed stones ? Inferior quality? And what exactly are you basing that on? A GIA stone bought in Dublin / Boston / Antwerp / Munich / Dubai is a GIA stone - end of. This is probably the most ill advised post I have seen on this forum. Most people that come on this forum have the good sense by the end of it to realise what a certified stone is and what the 4 c's mean. Throwing out random reasons for buying in Ireland is like me saying dont guy and buy a FIAT because they all break down.

popedave4

Gia reports purchased by inexperienced buyers in foreign countries in which the buyer does not reside, can be a hap hazard buy.

I recommend if buying lab graded stones, stick to the main labs and if possible the newer the report the better, i have heard stories of switched stones, that is why the later reports as the diamond will be (hopefully) inscribed with the report number on the girdle of the diamond.

If buying a post 2003 stone accompanied with a GIA,IGI,EGL report and the girdle is not inscribed ask your broker why not.

If you dont trust a diamonds grading, do not go with that broker and leave, grading is, i agree a process which can give varying results, but get to know the basics, try stick with the GIA standard grading system, it makes sense.

Also beware the dealer who advertises his diamonds with massive discounts off rapp, with little measurement details....its all in the dept folks.


Mod edit; if you advertise here again you will be banned.

lasalle

i bought a 1.4ct f vvs1 marquise in antwerp with gia cert for €5000, got it valued and verified here for €8200, aerlingus flights and acc for 2 nights came to €350 approx, so well worth travelling, diamonds in antwerp are sold in dollars, dollar goes up it costs a lot of euros, dollars go down ie NOW you can buy a lot bigger stone with your euros converted

keyes

Sizzler wrote: »

A GIA stone bought in Dublin / Boston / Antwerp / Munich / Dubai is a GIA stone - end of.

on a point of accuracy - the GIA does not certify stones, there is no such thing as a "GIA diamond". to call a stone a "GIA diamond" breaks every guideline the GIA have, and is totally against their rules and conditions.

the GIA is a non-profit grading laboratory; they issue a report on a given day for a given diamond.

when you get a diamond with a GIA report, what you are getting is a diamond, accompanied by a piece of paper that the person who sells you the stone is telling you was issued by the GIA to describe the qualities of the diamond on that day, in their opinion. it is not a guarantee, warranty or certificate.

tom123, depends on precisely what clarity you wanted, and how expensive the setting is, but you're not a million miles off in terms of price.

popdave, please read the charter, we are not here to pick up customers.

Sizzler

keyes wrote: »

when you get a diamond with a GIA report, what you are getting is a diamond, accompanied by a piece of paper that the person who sells you the stone is telling you was issued by the GIA to describe the qualities of the diamond on that day, in their opinion. it is not a guarantee, warranty or certificate.

If the GIA papers are treated with such distain by a jeweller why bother even pushing a GIA certified stone

keyes

Sizzler wrote: »

If the GIA papers are treated with such distain by a jeweller why bother even pushing a GIA certified stone

that's not what i said. it's not opinion, i'm quoting the GIA themselves. they state as much on the back of each and every one of their reports.

everybody knows that they are the finest lab in the world, and are certainly the lab for choice for anyone who knows anything about diamonds. they set a high standard of grading diamonds, and are extremely consistent in intra-lab grading. also, they have contributed more to gemmology than anyone else in the world, even if they keep mis-spelling it as "gemology"

if i was choosing, i'd always prefer a GIA report ahead of any other cert going. (there are a couple of other labs of similar reputation, but the GIA are the gold standard). the point i was making is that no matter how rigorous the certification, you are relying on the jeweller to act in an ethical manner as regards giving you the right report for the diamond. this is a not un-common problem for diamonds from one particular part of the world, one which i have come across several times while doing valuations.

how to avoid this is to buy from someone reputable, whether you buy here or abroad. also, it only takes a minute for a jeweller to show you that the cert tallies with the stone, perhaps by showing you various characteristics of the stone and inviting you to compare with the report. you don't need to be an expert to do this, and it's great fun if you've never looked into a diamond before!

Tom123

keyes wrote: »

tom123, depends on precisely what clarity you wanted, and how expensive the setting is, but you're not a million miles off in terms of price.

I'm looking for a 1.25C diamond, D, SI1, and VG cut.
The best quote I can get in Ireland is around 10k.
I think the setting is around 1,250.

keyes

Tom123 wrote: »

I'm looking for a 1.25C diamond, D, SI1, and VG cut.
The best quote I can get in Ireland is around 10k.
I think the setting is around 1,250.

PM sent

moverandshaker

Hi Fey

What is your opinion on Turkey V Belgium with regard to buying an engagement ring????

Where is the best value for money?

I think she wants 1.5 ct round in shape on white gold? If I can get it in Ireland it will be even better?!

d-redser

I am interested in knowing how much this ring would be?

18ct white gold solitaire brilliant cut diamond ring with baguette cut diamonds set on either side. The centre diamond is .85ct and is held by four claws. The side diamonds weigh .40ct, with one slightly larger baguette set beside the centre stone and smaller stones running down the band.

Das Kitty

d-redser wrote: »

I am interested in knowing how much this ring would be?

It depends entirely on the colour and clarity of the stones.

It also depends entirely on where you buy it.

If you have it, bring it to get it valued.

Duffer2

Firstly, credit to the OP and the others handing out great advice here - without commercial bias too! Most refreshing.

I have a couple of points to make - well, a point and a question.

In regard to the white gold/wearing off/rhodium plating issue - I have had a plain 18K white gold band for the last 11 years as a signet ring (family tradition for 21sts and I preferred the white gold colour and plain band shape - it's about to become my wedding ring too). I've worn it every day and done everything in it - gym, swim, work in a chemistry lab - you name it, this ring has suffered the indignity (and some unusual chemicals too). Sure, it's scratched - lots of small scratches as you would expect - but it cleans up well every time I remember to do it (about once every year or so I think, only when I'm doing cuff links am I reminded!). It's still very much white, still the same shape and has never been replated.

I guess it was fairly expensive for a plain band (some €500 twelve years ago) but the expense seems to have been worthwile. Incidentally, both of my younger brothers have had rings from the same jeweller in the UK, of the same material and in the same approximate style and have had no problems either. I'm sure by now we have all abraded the rhodium from the surfaces of our respective rings so some of what has been posted smacks of scare stories to me.

On to my question - my gf is like one of the previous posters' on the thread, does not want an engagement ring at all and has only just agreed to a wedding ring even. I want to get an eternity ring - channel set with diamonds - so there is something nice there, but in a small and comfortable ring. She's a research scientist and spends a lot of time in the lab so a big ring is an absolute no-no, coupled with the fact that she wears very little other jewellery too. This will effectively be her engagement ring too as she will only wear one (lucky me I know cost-wise!)

What should I be expecting to pay for a ring in 18K white gold with say half a carat or so of reasonable diamonds set into the band? I need to move fast, the agreement has taken months and we're getting married in four weeks! :eek: Also, if she has it valued and finds out it's too expensive then I will get a kick in the balls most likely so I'm trying to keep it modest. If that much diamond is too much for this type of ring, I welcome your advice!

Walking a fine line here, and I apologise for the length of the post.

keyes

Duffer2 wrote: »

What should I be expecting to pay for a ring in 18K white gold with say half a carat or so of reasonable diamonds set into the band? I need to move fast, the agreement has taken months and we're getting married in four weeks! :eek: Also, if she has it valued and finds out it's too expensive then I will get a kick in the balls most likely so I'm trying to keep it modest. If that much diamond is too much for this type of ring, I welcome your advice!

Hey,

it's a slightly broad question - is it half a carat across 5, 7, 9 stones, is the band thick or thin, claw or channel set, etc?

The short, and vague answer, is that it's not a terribly expensive ring, but one point to be aware of is that even with what you've described, there's hundreds of different styles. The best thing is to set aside an afternoon and go into a few jeweller's shops to have a look.

Duffer2

I think probably 5 or 7 stones, channel set in 18ct white gold. Either of the jewellers have anything suitable in stock? PM me if so!

Jessieannas

Great work Fey!. Very interesting. If you're stuck for money though, you need to include the fifth C, Crime!

Poncherello

do a search read the other threads

MagicMarker

I'm not disputing what you're saying. And i agree the differences aren't noticeable to the untrained eye. But the differences are still there.

Personally, i'd prefer a 1 carat ideal cut over a 2 carat excellent cut. 2 carat is way to big anyhow:) Hell, even one carat is too big, i'd never buy one personally.

MagicMarker

I don't believe for one second that shops mark up their merchandise because of the brand name.

A couple came into our store not long ago.. 18 months ago they bought a ring. But for some reason or another, they brought it to a pawn shop who in turn told them it's worth approx $500, they paid $4000:rolleyes:

So they chose to believe the guy in the pawn shop, instead of the extremely reputable store. In the end we sent it for appraisal (free of charge!).. It came back at $3900.

As long as you buy from a reputable store, then the price you pay IS what the diamond is worth.

MagicMarker

When you buy a ring you don't pay for the design.

A horribly designed rmount at 18k gold is worth just as much as a well designed mount of the same weight at 18k gold.