Why don't homeless people have houses?

nobodythere

After a bit of an experience with a homeless guy today, I have a question for you all. Why is it that dole skagging, inbred destructive arseholes can get a council house in this country for free and claim disability for afflictions that they do not have, but homeless people, many of whom have a REAL illness have to sleep on the streets tonight in sub-zero temperatures?

Jack Bauer

No idea

Drax

Probably because those dole skagging, inbred destructive arseholes know how to work (ie: f*ck) the system....

Our man in Havana

I can see this getting locked fast. This is more a humanities thread tbh.

Stephen

Very hard to get a council house when you don't have a family.

MarkR

Long waiting list for single occupants I'd imagine.

Btw, why post in after hours? It's not like there's a curfew on other sections!

c - 13

Odd, I was just ranting about this to my brother last night.

Oh look : My 1337 post \0/

Karoma

OP: You\'d probably get a better response in Humanities. However, I have no problem with AH have an AH discussion on the matter provided they treat the subject with the min. due care.

I\'d say there are several factors contributing to the situation: most notably being that the majority of those homeless people having mental or learning disabilities - and nobody to help them fill out forms / tell them their rights. What have you done to help?

L5

grasshopa wrote:

After a bit of an experience with a homeless guy today, I have a question for you all. Why is it that dole skagging, inbred destructive arseholes can get a council house in this country for free and claim disability for afflictions that they do not have, but homeless people, many of whom have a REAL illness have to sleep on the streets tonight in sub-zero temperatures?

If it was that easy to get a house we'd all be out sleeping on the streets

Nalz

most notably being that the majority of those homeless people having mental or learning disabilities - and nobody to help them fill out forms / tell them their rights. What have you done to help?

not to mention addictions, illness and misfortunes

Gurgle

Karoma wrote:

I\'d say there are several factors contributing to the situation: most notably being that the majority of those homeless people having mental or learning disabilities - and nobody to help them fill out forms / tell them their rights. What have you done to help?

There are plenty of charities to help them, and there are adequate systems in place to provide a decent standard of living to everyone.

Surely its more a case of getting their dole & rent allowance and pissing it down a drain as fast as possible because they're so fucked up they can't see as far as tomorrow. Getting drunk is a higher priority than having a bed and a roof over their heads.

Archeron

Sheer bad luck can have a lot to do with it. A friend of my family has had a dreadful year with his long term partner dieing (he did not have his name on the house they had shared for 20 years) and then being turfed out by her family who didnt like her or him. He wasnt able to work as she required full time care, so he had little work experience to get him into employment in a time frame that would prevent problems for him. He then moved in with his brother, who sadly died a few months later as well. He had some hope of getting a home with his rent allowance, but it would appear asking many people if they accept rent allowance is akin to asking if they mind you skinning them alive and eating their eyes. He was rejected for every room/house he wanted to take, and there was no comeback for him. Luckily we had a spare room, so were able to help him out in the short term, but it sank home to me the reality of how close we could all be to being homeless in the event of a string of really bad luck.
This is why it sickens me when I see people making flippant comments on how homeless people are there of their own accord. It may be true in some cases, but its incredibly unfair to generalize on people who end up in this position.
Now I know I'm guilty of generalizing here as well, and I am sure there are thousands of landlords out there who are good people and will accept rent allowance and such like, but it just shows how quickly and easily bad things can happen to good people. Like someone above mentioned already, a man on his own will not be a prioority for state housing, as families will get dealt with first.

Kimbot

There are a number of reasons behind it!! But the main thing I hear of is that they don't know what else to do, where to go etc!!

ScumLord

scocial housing is almost exclusively for familys or single mothers and rightly so I think. I'm sure the government would prioritise children over a healty young man any day.

In fairness most homeless people seem to have a problem with drugs and or alcohol, I don't think that they should be neglected because of that but giving them their own house wouldn't be in their best interests. You probably wouldn't see them again until they got carted out of the house as a stiff.

They need proper help and should be in a place where that help would be around them all the time. They need something to fill their day so they don't drink and could be put to (charity) work until they get back on their feet.

scojones

Go ask your local homeless guy to see why. I don't see the point in speculating about this.

Mrs_Doyle

I can understand people having a chip on their shoulder with regard to people fcuking the system.
My dad pays €500 a week in tax, but has never once received the dole, a medical card, free dental care, or availed of any sort of affordable housing, etc.
He has worked, damn hard, on a building site, for the last 30 years to provide for himself and his family.
Me, I have worked since I was 15, I have paid my own school and college fees from the day I start working. I bought my own books, paid my own way, and never once benefited from a grant, or any other hand out.
I am now of an age where I am starting to save for a mortgage. Will I be handed a house by the government? I most certainly will not.

I don't think that my family deserve some sort of medal for the way we have lived our lives.
We live our lives as I believe they should be lived.
We work hard and we provide for ourselves.

So when I see people, who I firmly believe to be fcuking the system for every thing they can get, it bothers me greatly.

Had I dropped out of school at 15, done a fas course or two, and had a kid at about 19, I would probably be living in my own apartment/house right now.
I wouldn't be working, because I wouldn't have to, and my kid would be decked out in clothes that have been provided for by the state.

I know what I am saying might not be considered politically correct, but I am not in a very P.C. kinda mood right now.

manonthemoon

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

My dad pays €500 a week in tax, but has never once received the dole, a medical card, free dental care, or availed of any sort of affordable housing, etc.

So he clearing about €1500-€2000 a week. Reckon he is not doing too bad

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Me, I have worked since I was 15, I have paid my own school and college fees from the day I start working. I bought my own books, paid my own way, and never once benefited from a grant, or any other hand out.
I am now of an age where I am starting to save for a mortgage. Will I be handed a house by the government? I most certainly will not.

Why should you be handed a house. You dont need one:rolleyes:

Mrs_Doyle

manonthemoon wrote:

So he clearing about €1500-€2000 a week. Reckon he is not doing too bad




Why should you be handed a house. You dont need one:rolleyes:

I never said he was broke and I never said I needed a house.
However, many people who fcuk the system are not broke, are are not in desperate need of social housing. Its easy, its there for the taking, so they take it.

EDIT: Actually, if your "fcuking the system" then it can be taken for granted that you don't need what your taking, and your not giving back to society either.

I have no problems with those who genuinely need assistance of some sort, its those who don't, but grab what they can, that bother me.

Two of my friends had children when they were just 17 and 18, both of them now own their own homes, without the assistance of the state. They also went on to complete 3rd level education and have good jobs with hours that suit being a single parent.
My point, people shouldn't just screw the system because they can, they should, in my opinion, at least try to provide for themself first.

And before you start, I am not branding every single parent as a scab, not at all, that just happens to be the only example to spring to mind.

If you work hard, you can provide for yourself. Sometimes I think the state makes it too easy for some people.

Naked Lepper

cos they all listened to hard house in the 90s and now its embedded in their heads

User45701

Stephen wrote:

Very hard to get a council house when you don't have a family.

Very true unless you have kids the waiting list is VERY long

MarkR wrote:

Long waiting list for single occupants I'd imagine.

Btw, why post in after hours? It's not like there's a curfew on other sections!

Well i know one single person who got a house but she had MS and was also on a housing list for a long long time and as well as that the house she was living in was under irish law uninhabitable because of the bad condition of the house, so if it takes all that and many many many years for a single ill female?
That is not right

I know someone who is now 18, engaged and getting married , the other one might already be preggers or will be soon enough anyway a few kids pop out so when there both 21 they get a house and they are sorted.....
Another problem is a single person on min wage can NOT afford a house in Dublin which actually proves what a failure of a society we have.

ScumLord wrote:

scocial housing is almost exclusively for family's or single mothers and rightly so I think. I'm sure the government would prioritise children over a healty young man any day.

**** that, i don't care its wrong, ih em i think ill decide to **** your one over there..... *few years later* wow i have a house!

ScumLord wrote:

In fairness most homeless people seem to have a problem with drugs and or alcohol, I don't think that they should be neglected because of that but giving them their own house wouldn't be in their best interests. You probably wouldn't see them again until they got carted out of the house as a stiff.

They need proper help and should be in a place where that help would be around them all the time. They need something to fill their day so they don't drink and could be put to (charity) work until they get back on their feet.

Neither someone who has been corrupted by drugs and or drink or someone who ****s without thought should be given a house, how about a large camp like a refugee camp set up some massive field where all the people who are a drain on sociality recorces go? if we simply cut all prisoner funds by 50% there would still be MORE than enough to give them all there food and Medicare and whatever else they need to keep them alive, then spend the other 1/2 on this refugee camp where all the pointless ****ers and the system screwer's can go. Also if that pay rise that all those gov people got went towards re-had for those infected.

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I can understand people having a chip on their shoulder with regard to people fcuking the system.
My dad pays €500 a week in tax, but has never once received the dole, a medical card, free dental care, or availed of any sort of affordable housing, etc.
He has worked, damn hard, on a building site, for the last 30 years to provide for himself and his family.

There does need to be tax, but i should have to pay allot less than someone who ownes a car for example

1.I also "have never once received the dole, a medical card, free dental care, or availed of any sort of affordable housing, etc."

2.Road tax, i should have to pay less tax because i do not drive the only time i would use a road is getting a taxi or bus into town because i do walk home from town instead of standing around for the bus and i walk to my local

3.Single people should be taxed less than a couple living together and as well as that the tax should be simpler than the lower and higher there should be 10 different tax brackets for all the different wage brackets, makes it more fair

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I don't think that my family deserve some sort of medal for the way we have lived our lives.
We live our lives as I believe they should be lived.
We work hard and we provide for ourselves.

So when I see people, who I firmly believe to be fcuking the system for every thing they can get, it bothers me greatly.

Had I dropped out of school at 15, done a fas course or two, and had a kid at about 19, I would probably be living in my own apartment/house right now.
I wouldn't be working, because I wouldn't have to, and my kid would be decked out in clothes that have been provided for by the state.

I know what I am saying might not be considered politically correct, but I am not in a very P.C. kinda mood right now.

What are you taking about? What you are saying is RIGHT it does not matter if it is politically correct or not.

Judt

Given the fact that many homeless people have some form of mental problem or other - be it a bipolar or just alcoholic, or a lovely mix of many - the only real way to solve many of the problems would be to commit them for some real treatment of their problems - give them money or a house before you've given them the proper "training" (if I can use this word) to spend it wisely and live in it properly, and you're just pissing down a drain.

I really do believe that we have the resources to solve this problem. However, it is manyfold problematic - for one, it's a classic case of people saying "I hate seeing all these homeless people, it breaks my heart", but ask them about homeless people a different way - "Would you be willing to spend X amount of money to help homeless people?" and I find the arguments about them all being on the streets because of their own silly fault come out. That's a BS argument, but ask people to pay and they'll say just about anything...

If we could be charitable enough (and not just at Christmas, when it's fashionable) to pay the money to first rehabilitate these people, and then house them, and we could solve this problem within three years.

damiennolan

Who cares about homeless people?

As long as I'm not paying tax to support them I'm not worried.

Xavi6

Was anyone else waiting for the punchline when they read the thread title....??

Hobbes

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

I can understand people having a chip on their shoulder with regard to people fcuking the system.
My dad pays €500 a week in tax, but has never once received the dole, a medical card, free dental care, or availed of any sort of affordable housing, etc.
He has worked, damn hard, on a building site, for the last 30 years to provide for himself and his family.

And hes been very lucky. As I recall all it needs it 3 major things to happen in your life and you can be in a situation where you could end up homeless or on the way to becoming homeless. If you haven't planned for such an event you should do so now.

I haven't been homeless but I have been in a situation where if my family hadn't of been given a council house then we would of been. The house was unfit to live in for months but no where else to live while we got it fixed. It wasn't cheap and even when the house was better we were basically living in an area that having on your CV as the address guaranteed you around that time not being picked up for interviews for even most crappy jobs.

Looking back it was all because of 4 different situations happening within the space of a few months. 1 on its own would of been a small set back but 4 basically pushed the family into debt to the point where we could no longer afford our house, let alone basic foodstuffs.

Had I dropped out of school at 15, done a fas course or two, and had a kid at about 19, I would probably be living in my own apartment/house right now.
I wouldn't be working, because I wouldn't have to, and my kid would be decked out in clothes that have been provided for by the state.

I wish it were that easy.

Yes there are people screwing the system, but doesn't mean that everyone screwing the system and it is very easy to critisize a situation when you have never had to live in such conditions.

Degsy

People can be homeless for a lot of reasons.A lot of times they've fallen out with relatives and moved out of home,without a job you wont get a flat,and you wont get a job without an adress.Soemtimes they're fleeing domestic abuse,and end up on the streets becaus ethey dont know anybody to put them up.Years ago a lot of the homeless were older people who had quit the armed forces or navy or whatever and found it difficult to adopt to life outside of a routine,these used to be known as "tramps" back in the day.Alcoholism and drug abuse plays a big part too,people can come from a good background,have anice house and a job and piss the whole lot away in no time flat,ending up begging for the price of a bottle,sleeping in doorways and locked into a vcious circle that usually ends in hypothermia or drug overdose.I have no sympathy for people who've been on the dole for twenty years and get everything supplied by the state but being homeless is something that can happen to absolutely anybody.

Hobbes

User45701 wrote:

3.Single people should be taxed less than a couple living together

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha.......

The fact you are single means you are spending less money. I know, I've been there.

User45701

Hobbes wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha.......

The fact you are single means you are spending less money. I know, I've been there.

Well actually i am not normal in any sense of the word i am not like any of you in any way to the best of my knowledge, so please don't assume that just because i am single i spend less money in fact single or with another person i will still spend 100% of everything i earn..... Let me explain

I am single now and i spend my money on food, drink, smoke, credit, and the occasional extra little thing like a new hard drive or a dvd box set or a poker table ect.

If i was with someone i would still spend monday on drink, smoke, credit, and the occasional extra little thing but instead of things to make me happy it would be stuff like birthday/holiday presents for the person i am with.
Also the argument allot of couples will spend nights in and not spend as much out on drink... yes but instead of going out drinking you stay in and spend the money on smoke, either way as far as i see it expendure is at 100%

The raisin (yes raisin, not reason) i think single people should be taxed less is its already almost impossible to afford to buy a house or pay a mortgage if you are single so i am saying that single people should be taxed less because saving for a deposit is not as easy with one person as it is two.

Back on topic

damiennolan wrote:

Who cares about homeless people?

As long as I'm not paying tax to support them I'm not worried.

i would rather we help them then pay for some moron who screws the system over along with YOU just because he/she wants a house. if only we had a more intelligent government.

ScumLord

User45701 wrote:

**** that, i don't care its wrong, ih em i think ill decide to **** your one over there..... *few years later* wow i have a house!

I know a few single mothers and I really don't think they planed on having a bady so they could get a house. Most are very young girls that didn't know any better or gave into peer presure got drunk, made a mistake basically. It's not easy to get a house it takes years in most cases.

User45701 wrote:

Neither someone who has been corrupted by drugs and or drink or someone who ****s without thought should be given a house, how about a large camp like a refugee camp set up some massive field where all the people who are a drain on sociality recorces go?

That's not what I was saying, I was saying that if you really want to help these people, which you don't seem to want to do. Then they need to be given help kicking whatever habit or mental condition is stoping them from functioning in society shown how to manage their lives and then re-housed. This would be best done in some form of hostel/education centre.

It's all very well to say their a drain and should be ignored but you could very easily be in that situation at some stage in your life and you may need to relie on the compassion of your fello citizens to help you out.

Why should the government make decissions based on your life, homeless people are still people with lifes worth living. We're lucky they are required to look out for our wellfare and that theres at least a chance they'll help us should our life suddenly go to ****.

User45701

a simple way to fix this as i see it would be some sort of baby lisence maybe?
if there are those that can not control themselves and mate without thinking of what could happen (ie requiring a house along with child welfare).

As for those with mental conditions thats allot harder to solve i would suggest 6 monthly or 12 month tests for every single member of society but that wont work there are those that use drugs but still maintain a stable lifestyle so i dont think that one can point there finger at drugs.

Although alcohol does seem to be a factor then again if i lived on the street and no access to any form of entertainment no pc no internet no tv shows i would drink ALLOT more.

Terry

User 45701 wrote:

how about a large camp like a refugee camp set up some massive field where all the people who are a drain on sociality recorces go?

yeah. and then we'll gas them.

Gran Hermano

I'm pretty sure I heard a recent radio discussion on how there are more people employed in charities/hostels/shelters for the homeless than there are actual
homeless people in Dublin. Puts the 'problem' in perspective me thinks.