The Americans are going to the Moon

Hagar

c - 13 wrote:

Looks like anyone that bought a space on the moon was even more scammed than they thought

Whaaattt !!!! Well at least I still have the two seagulls I bought at the beach last summer.

Feral Mutant

Apparently sales of extraterrestrial real estate are not legally recognised by any nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_real_estate
Also, some people have been selling "parcels of space".

Wikipedia Article wrote:

As early as 1937, A.D.Lindsay of Ocilla, Georgia claimed all “planets, islands-of-space or other matter” in the Universe as his property.

Ambitious chap.

Degsy

There'll be irish vampire property developers making money out of this somehow.They've allready conned people into buying in bulgaria and romania and christ knows where else based on the "equity value" of thier homes..the moon will ne next ,mark my words with "prices starting from 80,000 euro for a one bed unit"."The investment of the future."

Tom Dunne

Kingsize wrote:

god help mr spoon thats all i can say.
terrorist in charge of a rocket watching over the milkbottle militia he'll be renditioned no doubt.

Get your map of the solar system out, there Kingsize - it's the Earth moon, not Button Moon they are going to. We just don't have the technology to get to Button Moon.


Yet....

Kojak

c - 13 wrote:

They're whalers on the moon,
They carry a harpoon.
But there ain't no whales
So they tell tall tales
And sing a whaling tune.

Sorry

Damn it that song is stuck in my head now. :mad:

Hobbes

Even money says China will have the first moonbase. Failing that India.

Black Swan

They plan to colonize the Moon. Penal colonies! Move all the prisoners they don't know what to do with from Cuba, Iraq (and from other hidden places we haven't heard about). Gitmo 2 Moon Base!

digitally-yours

well they hardly have any reputation here on this planet so they i believe are thinking why not change the planet and start a new life

I wish them best of luck

cant wait to eat in a Mc donalds on Moon !

Sad Professor

Ah to hell with the moon, lets go to Mars already. There's good reason they haven't gone back to the moon since the 70's - cause there's nothing there.

aidan_walsh

What about putting a base there to use as a launch pad to Mars?

Degsy

Why not the sun?Thats the hottest place on earth!They could have holidays there.

Sad Professor

aidan_walsh wrote:

What about putting a base there to use as a launch pad to Mars?

Does it make a difference? Its not like the moon is that much closer to Mars.

Hagar

Degsy wrote:

Why not the sun? Thats the hottest place on earth!

I think I see a problem here...

ScumLord

aidan_walsh wrote:

Believe it or not, the UN proposed a treaty to cover this way back in '79. It wasn't a great success, but bless they tried.

If the Americans get there first though they can just start using up whatever parts of the moon they fancy. Would anyone have the right to make them move?

digitally-yours wrote:

cant wait to eat in a Mc donalds on Moon !

McDonnalds would be deadly on the moon, lack of gravity and even air resistance would cause people to ballon to the size of bullocks! Then they'd float away into space like those ballons in batman.

aidan24326

Stephen wrote:

what a waste of money for them at a time when they're several trillion dollars in debt. :rolleyes:

Bit narrow-sighted Stephen? fcuk the yanks and their national debt, they'll just print more dollars anyway, or invade another resource-rich country. Space exploration is for the potential benefit of all mankind.

And space exploration must necessarily be done in small steps, due to the high costs and the time it takes to plan and engineer. But a base on the moon, and a manned mission to mars, would be the next 'giant leap'. Not a waste of money at all, humans may one day live on another planet, this is only the beginning.

Thirdfox

Sad Professor wrote:

Does it make a difference? Its not like the moon is that much closer to Mars.

Lack of atmosphere means you don't need to consider aerodynamics.

Gravity 1/6th that of the Earth means you can use less fuel to escape orbit (just think of all the fuel wasted just getting the rocket into space in the first place - all the boosters etc. are just used to launch a tiny payload into space...)

Sad Professor

Thirdfox wrote:

Lack of atmosphere means you don't need to consider aerodynamics.

Gravity 1/6th that of the Earth means you can use less fuel to escape orbit (just think of all the fuel wasted just getting the rocket into space in the first place - all the boosters etc. are just used to launch a tiny payload into space...)

Yeah but won't they will still have to fly the spaceship/shuttle from the earth to the moon anyway? So the moon base would just be a stopping off point. Unless they intend to build it there, which would be rather difficult and costly I imagine.

kevmy

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah but won't they will still have to fly the spaceship/shuttle from the earth to the moon anyway? So the moon base would just be a stopping off point. Unless they intend to build it there, which would be rather difficult and costly I imagine.

It could be beneficial in that extra fuel tanks could be stored on the moon and therefore lightening the load needed to get off the ground. Keep in mind that they usually use gravity slingshot to come back from the moon cos they've feck all fuel left after getting out there.
It would also be useful in that the crew could practice landing on the moon on the way to Mars to make sure systems are working correctly.
And if the spaceship is massive it might actually be easier to make in space a la the ISS instead of attempting to launch it straight from Earth.

Degsy

kevmy wrote:

It could be beneficial in that extra fuel tanks could be stored on the moon and therefore lightening the load needed to get off the ground. Keep in mind that they usually use gravity slingshot to come back from the moon cos they've feck all fuel left after getting out there.
It would also be useful in that the crew could practice landing on the moon on the way to Mars to make sure systems are working correctly.
And if the spaceship is massive it might actually be easier to make in space a la the ISS instead of attempting to launch it straight from Earth.

Erm..i sincerely hope NASA arent using you blokes as consultants on th:D is projetct...

homeOwner

They are probably going to the moon because the Chinese are planning to go soon and the americans have to go first to put that US flag in the ground that we all think is there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3874419.stm

kevmy

Degsy wrote:

Erm..i sincerely hope NASA arent using you blokes as consultants on th:D is projetct...

Well at least I know how to convert feet to metres and theres no harm in being ambitious. Not saying they should do that just saying thats the advantage in using the moon as a launch base.

constitutionus

anyone seeing a repeat of the 60's here with the chinese taking the place of the ruskies?:D yanks are going purportedly to get to mars but word on the chinese is there after some stuff called helium 3 which can be used in prototype fusion reactors. apparently theres loads of the stuff up there and you'd only need a wheelbarrow full to power all of ireland, looks like it could be "oil" theyre after afterall

that said im geeky enough to be excited by this, depresses the hell out of me we haven't done anything manned since the 70's

Hagar

The Chinese are already halfway there.

Lust4Life

Posted by Blue_Lagoon
They plan to colonize the Moon. Penal colonies! Move all the prisoners they don't know what to do with from Cuba, Iraq (and from other hidden places we haven't heard about). Gitmo 2 Moon Base!

I'm sure it was a movie, but it's still an idea that has merit!
Dump the trash in space and let them play their own game of Survivor. Include all the pedophiles of the world over.

phantom_lord

Hagar wrote:

I think I see a problem here...

We'll go at night time. Duh/

Capt'n Midnight

Thirdfox wrote:

Gravity 1/6th that of the Earth means you can use less fuel to escape orbit (just think of all the fuel wasted just getting the rocket into space in the first place - all the boosters etc. are just used to launch a tiny payload into space...)

Very rough figures, from apollo. You can take off from the moon with a single stage, and only half the total mass needs to be fuel. That's about the same as concorde or a very long distance plane.
From earth you need multistage rockets and to get to low earth orbit 90% of the mass is fuel, and you loose another 50% of the mass if you use chemical rockets to get to a higher orbit.

Lack of air means you don't need aerodynamic launchers
Lower gravity really helps. A 1g launcher on earth would just hover against earths 1g. A 2g launcher would only accelerate at 1g due to gravity drag. A 3.5g launcher would accelerate at 2.5g but need engines and pumps 3.5 times bigger and would need to be able to support over 2.5 times it's own weight.

On the moon you can use a much smaller 1g launcher, and only 1/6 of the thrust is lost to gravity drag. And the structure only needs to support it's (earth based) weight.

main problems on the moon are lack of hydrogen and chlorine. Hydrogen to make water and fuel from the rocks, and chlorine is used to process moon rocks too, still a couple of earth crossing asteroids would help there.

You also need 50% of total mass as fuel to land on the moon, since you can't use aerobraking or parachutes. But using current materials you can make a moonstalk that could be put into orbit using current launchers. This would mean you could save almost all the fuel by just lifting a similar mass into orbit when you land.

Black Swan

You know, you really don't have to go 250,000 miles to get mooned.

Black Swan

Lust4Life wrote:

I'm sure it was a movie, but it's still an idea that has merit!
Dump the trash in space and let them play their own game of Survivor. Include all the pedophiles of the world over.

One of the Alien films, cannot remember which one, used this solution? I vaguely remember the film. Something about a lot of sex and violence, and prisoners with shaved heads, including Sigorney Weaver?

Capt'n Midnight

aidan_walsh wrote:

What about putting a base there to use as a launch pad to Mars?

Only of benefit if you can make fuel or mine raw materials there, so would take a bit of time.

Or maybe a big mass driver and fire them off to mars that way.

Still like the way they plan to send hydrogen to Mars to make fuel when combined with carbon dioxide

one mole of H2, plus all the CO2 you want, with some energy added (solar panels, small nuclear plant) creates half a mole of CH4 and half a mole of O2.

Here's where the advantage comes in:

one mole of hydrogen (H2) weighs 2 kilos.
one mole of methane (CH4) weighs 16 kilos.
one mole of oxygen (02) weighs 32 kilos.

therefore one tonne of H2, plus all the CO2 you want, produces four tonnes of CH4 and eight tonnes of O2. That's a 12:1 leverage on your propellant weight.

Eight tonnes of hydrogen produces 96 tonnes of propellant. Roughly speaking that's enough to bring a ship, carrying four astronauts, all the way to Earth from the surface of Mars.

http://www.neiu.edu/~jmhemzac/images/moonsoil2.jpg - while it's not all made of chese it is a good source of calcium

Lust4Life

It's not really made of Cheese?:eek:
I wanted to send some Wisconsin Cows there to see how they fared!