These are not true friends. What do you think?

The Hill Billy

[Off Topic]

SystemError wrote:

I only read the opening post because unless I start a new thread Im not bothered reading eveyone elses opinion...

Wow! That's a real "My cock is bigger than yours" statement. What's the point of using boards if you feel that other posters' contributions aren't deemed worthy of your attention? That said you probably won't read this & even if you do you won't be bothered by my opinion.
[/Off Topic]

@ OP - At the end of the day dude what you are saying is that you would prefer for "over-weight women" to conform to your ideal body-image. You still haven't made a case why they should do this. Everything thus far has been why you think they should lose weight.

For example:

SteamTrean wrote:

I think weight looks good on some women.. but on most, it is definitely a turn off.

I can only assume that this may be to fuel some sort of weight-loss-by-proxy masturbatory fantasy.

The Sweeper

Binomate wrote:

I'd say about half the people here replying in disgust to SteamTrean's posts have probably a few pounds too many on them. Just a guess. All he has done is made the observation that having people around you, who say "yes" to you all the time to comfort you instead of presenting the sometimes uglier truth, is generally a bad thing.

And all I did was make the observation that SteamTrean is stupid. Yet he found my observation offensive and became extremely defensive as a result. You have now popped in and said that people are probably reacting badly because they themselves are fat. Does this mean that you're the friend with the pint of Ben & Jerrys?

You're assuming that people who are fat are ugly, and their friends are some sort of insidious feeders who keep them deluded that their hideousness is somehow acceptable. You're also joining SteamTrean in the assumption that the friends of fat people disrespect them by not riding their asses daily about losing weight.

My problem with this really isn't that I think SteamTrean is stupid.

It's just that I have no respect for someone whose conversation with his friends is so shallow that it revolves around other discsussing the appearance of a whole section of society, and includes a number of sweeping generalisations about that section of society.

It's small minded. It's self-centred. It's, in fact, pretty stupid.

What will happen if something befalls SteamTrean tomorrow to affect his appearance? What if he's burned, or disfigured, disabled, or - heaven help us - struck by lightning?

How could he could be expected to cope with a change to his own image, when other the body shape of other people worries him so deeply?

SystemError

Hill Billy wrote:

Wow! That's a real "My cock is bigger than yours" statement. What's the point of using boards if you feel that other posters' contributions aren't deemed worthy of your attention? That said you probably won't read this & even if you do you won't be bothered by my opinion.

I didnt say they "werent worthy" so refrain from putting words in my mouth. Im not going to read every post on boards.ie. No one does.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Lot of people in this thread could do with gaining a few brain cells. This, I sincerely believe. I just wanted to tell you 'cause I consider you all my friends.

BTW, OP, "stunningness" and beauty in general are pretty subjective, so don't expect many girls that are 'friends' to care that they could look better in your opinion.

I personally would criticise my friends if: A) I thought they'd actually care, They could actually do something about it and C) The potential benefit would outweigh the potential for hurt feelings caused by the criticism. I can't see myself bringing anything like this out of the blue, either. You can't go deciding for your friends whether they are satisfied with themselves or not. Odds are, if they're already dissatisfied then your criticism won't come as news to them.

Mrs_Doyle

SteamTrean
One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame.

Do you think that all over weight women walk around, blissfully unaware of the fact that they could stand to lose a few pounds?

Do you actually think that they live their lives just waiting for someone to point out that they could do with shifting a bit of weight?

Do you believe that overweight women are, 'wrongfully', of the opinion that they are Gods Gift to the planet, that they are 100% perfect, true beauties... and that they need people like you point out to them that this isn't actually true, that they aren't bad looking, but could look all the better if they just stop chomping on the lard?

I am fairly certain that 99% of over weight people already know that they are over weight.
I reckon a fairly high percentage of that group know that they 'could' look a little better if they lost a little weight.
And.. of those who think they could stand to lose a few pounds there is probably a fairly high percentage of people who have struggled with their weight for years, who have tried dieting, and exercise, who are actively trying to control their weight problems in the present day, and who have cried into their pillows because some 'know it all' decided to do them a favour by telling them they were fat.

Fat people have a weight problem, they possibly have bad eating habits, or had bad eating habits in the past and are battling the consequences.

They are not blind, they are not stupid and they certainly do not need people like you telling them they could do with skipping the odd meal or two.

Kolodny

Binomate wrote:

I'd say about half the people here replying in disgust to SteamTrean's posts have probably a few pounds too many on them. Just a guess.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to come to this conclusion. Personally, I would think that it’s Steamtrean’s own issues with other people’s weight that have provoked most of the replies to this thread.

Binomate wrote:

All he has done is made the observation that having people around you, who say "yes" to you all the time to comfort you instead of presenting the sometimes uglier truth, is generally a bad thing.

Perhaps. However, with the way his post is worded and the example he has used, what he appears to be saying is that is that if we all told our stunningly-faced but portly-bodied friends to get off their fat arses and shift a bit of that excess flab, there would be far more attractive women out there for him to look at. That, plus an education in how not to give a compliment.

It's not that it offends me personally - I just think it's a very shallow attitude to have.

SystemError

skywalker wrote:

I have to say in a way I agree with the OP alright. But there are certain people in our lives we just dont expect criticism from, anything but very well thought out, loigical points with tonnes of positive reinforcement could lead to us seeing that person differently. It has to be said aswell that its much harder to do that with a woman than a guy. Sorry for the generalisation but its true.

This is true, but thats because so much emphasis is put on overweight women as oppose to overweight people. For example this thread isnt about overweight people, its about overweight women. Why ? There are also a lot of men who could do with losing weight but nobody seems to really care.

A lot of people are more critical of women being overweight, and are quicker to point it out. Also, the standards average women have to live up to are gettin higher and higher, all the magazines with airbrushed perfect looking women with big boobs, tanned skin and a tiny waist have given people (in particular men) a distorted vision of what beauty should really look like.

SteamTrean

Hill Billy wrote:

@ OP - At the end of the day dude what you are saying is that you would prefer for "over-weight women" to conform to your ideal body-image. You still haven't made a case why they should do this. Everything thus far has been why you think they should lose weight.

The main theme of this is the whole 'cruel to be kind' conundrum and not my likes and dislikes. If you ask me to make a case for why they should loose weight then I can't. I agree that you should not have to conform to anyone's standards. I did say however at the start that I was specifically talking about ladies that want to loose weight but lack the drive.. I think this drive gets damaged further by overly complimentary, unfounded remarks made by well meaning people.

SteamTrean

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

And all I did was make the observation that SteamTrean is stupid. Yet he found my observation offensive and became extremely defensive as a result. You have now popped in and said that people are probably reacting badly because they themselves are fat. Does this mean that you're the friend with the pint of Ben & Jerrys?

You're assuming that people who are fat are ugly, and their friends are some sort of insidious feeders who keep them deluded that their hideousness is somehow acceptable. You're also joining SteamTrean in the assumption that the friends of fat people disrespect them by not riding their asses daily about losing weight.

My problem with this really isn't that I think SteamTrean is stupid.

It's just that I have no respect for someone whose conversation with his friends is so shallow that it revolves around other discsussing the appearance of a whole section of society, and includes a number of sweeping generalisations about that section of society.

It's small minded. It's self-centred. It's, in fact, pretty stupid.

What will happen if something befalls SteamTrean tomorrow to affect his appearance? What if he's burned, or disfigured, disabled, or - heaven help us - struck by lightning?

How could he could be expected to cope with a change to his own image, when other the body shape of other people worries him so deeply?

Yeah If I get horribly disfigure in a fire . I'll be sure to go to the gym regularly and eat healthily to try to reverse this and my inherint stupidity. What planet are you on man?

The Sweeper

Splasshiity splish there you are making noise again...

I'm living on the planet where we think that if you commit a lot of time to really worrying about what other people look like, getting angry about it and thinking it's a shame, you've pretty much disappeared up your own hole.

What planet are you living on? The planet judgemental?

Binomate

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

And all I did was make the observation that SteamTrean is stupid. Yet he found my observation offensive and became extremely defensive as a result. You have now popped in and said that people are probably reacting badly because they themselves are fat. Does this mean that you're the friend with the pint of Ben & Jerrys?

I'm not the friend of the OP.

You're assuming that people who are fat are ugly, and their friends are some sort of insidious feeders who keep them deluded that their hideousness is somehow acceptable. You're also joining SteamTrean in the assumption that the friends of fat people disrespect them by not riding their asses daily about losing weight.

I never said, or even implied that we should go around "riding their asses daily about losing weight". I simply siad that "yes people" are bad to have around you. I wouldn't dream of giving my opinion to someone regarding a sensitive subject to many such as physical appearance unless it was asked for.

Lurk

SteamTrean wrote:

A good friend of mine and I were talking whilst walking home from shopping in Tesco last night. One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame.

What an odd post. I'm baffled by why you're "angry" and think it's a "shame." Isn't there enough thin women around? Sounds like there's something personal here, but I can't imagine what.
In any case, I'm a heavy smoker and if anyone comes up to me and says "that's bad for you, ya know," despite how well-meaning they think they are, I just get irritated. Same thing with overweight individuals (or alcoholism)...no amount of outside pressure will ever get a person to change their habits unless they want to themselves. So no point in going on about it; the time to give a helping hand is if and when they ask for it.

Blush_01

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Splasshiity splish there you are making noise again...

I'm living on the planet where we think that if you commit a lot of time to really worrying about what other people look like, getting angry about it and thinking it's a shame, you've pretty much disappeared up your own hole.

What planet are you living on? The planet judgemental?

lol


OP - maybe you should stop replying if you don't want more of people's opinions? You can hardly be offended by them, surely. I mean, when you posted your original post, you did anticipate this result. You offered your opinion in it, inviting other people to do the same. You also (unless you're thicker than a weed-riddled double ditch) can't have forseen too many people agreeing with how you phrased what you said. I still stand by what I said - plenty of attractive people out there could stand to lose some weight - I'd be far more attractive if I did anyway. But I sure as hell don't need to be told it.

Systemerror hit the nail on the head with the "bigger than usual" comment too. Kudos.

Gandhi

Is all the vitriole aimed at the poor OP really necessary?

He may have made his points rather clumsily, but he is not single-handedly initiating a global shallowness revolution by saying that a lot of overweight people (both boys and girls) would look better if they lost weight. That is the reality of the world we live in.

I have two good female friends who are smokin' hotties when they are slim, but have both gained a lot of weight. They are always complaining that they can't meet nice guys, and I hate the fact that this is because any dude that takes one look at them thinks "fat chick" and keeps on walking. More than once I have seen guys glancing over at them, and known exactly what they were thinking, and I wanted to go over and punch the f*ckers. I know damned well if my friends lost a few pounds most of the guys that looked at them would be thinking "hot chick" they would be beating off the lads with a stick.

Would I ever say it to these girls? Not in a million years. As other posters have pointed out, they are presumably more aware of this than I am, and me saying something would make things worse - me being male making it worse again.

Is that situation fair? No.
Would it be nice to live in a world where my two friends, who are both awesome chicks, would meet two awesome guys who are crazy about them? Yes, it would.
Does that make the situation any less real? Not for a second.
Is Steam Trean personally responsible for all this? No, he is not.

rossious

just a passing point, but isn't it strange the way we can lecture smokers for being unhealthy and smelly, but we have to be on our tippy toes when it comes to telling someone they are fat. Fat is unhealthy, and so is smoking.

How come we don't try to get fat people to stop eating the way we try to get smokers to stop smoking.

I understand this is badly phrased and will prob cause offence, but in my opinion both are causes of early death, both are unhealthy, and both soak up hugh amounts of hospital money etc to treat.

The Hill Billy

rossious wrote:

I understand this is badly phrased and will prob cause offence

Not at all. This is a breath of fresh air. I'm coming around to thinking that SteamTrean's argument was poorly phrased & ill thought.

However, your tuppence-worth is obviously well thought-out & refreshingly fascist. How to you propose getting "fat people" to stop eating? What do you consider to be an acceptable weight for them to achieve? Maybe you should consider a target BMI for them instead?

BlitzKrieg

How come we don't try to get fat people to stop eating the way we try to get smokers to stop smoking.

As far as I know alot of the get fat people to stop eating campaigns (government or private) are aimed at children as a pre-emptive policy. Its assumed that after the age of 18 or whatnot one would be free to make the decision themselves to loose weight or not and that the government has no right pushing it on them and there is already an excessive amount of material to support them*

Smoking on the other hand, the main argument that brought in the smoking ban and has upped the anti smoking brigade is of course second hand smoke, which again involves the children and everyone else being under risk as well as the smoker themselves, hence different policies.



*though one must question the credibility of some of these diets.

senordingdong

OP makes a great point...but good luck getting it through to a woman.

Wertz

galah wrote:

Hm, as a skinny woman, I find it hard to judge the appearance of my friends and tell them to lose weight - because that could cause a lot of resentment, jealousy and hurt. And for what? In the perfect world, people would take this comment on board, start exercising, and be ever so grateful. In real life, this will probably cause a rift (raft/drift - can't find the right word right now) in the friendship.

Excellent point.

Someone of "ideal" weight (whatever that is) coming along to someone else that's over and above that weight and telling them they're fat (in so many words) is going to bring troubkle back on themselves or have a falling out.
Not worth it.

Chances are that any girl with half a brain, already knows they have a "weight problem" and that their friends are only being positive and supportive...anyone that's stupid or ignorant enough not to realise, is at that stage both stupid AND fat and hence highly unlikely to be attractive in any way.

Semi-OT: the real problem here is the society that allows people that are less than "perfect" to be treated as badly as they are; plumpness used be an attratcive trait in women in days of old, as did pale skin.
These days if you're not a size [whatever] and browner than a moroccan, you're going home alone from the pub; it's f*cking wrong.
Obesity is one thing....a few more punds and some folds of skin should not dismiss someone from holding an attraction to the opposite sex...
F*ck Hollywood and the rest of the celebrity BS that's turned us into such hollow beings...
/rant

Siogfinsceal

I always prefer someone to be honest - If I am wearing something that makes my @ss look huge id prefer my mates to tell me rather than let me go out lookign stupid. if I am not sure of something I always ask a mate with a good eye for fashion who I know will be honest.
As for the Ops oroginal post yes some women look good with weight on but we have all seen a girl and either thought - 'she would look amazing if she just shed a few pounds' or 'shes stunning but just that little bit too thin' - it works both ways!

wow sierra

If a friend asks if she looks nice for a night out you tell her yes she has probably been preparing for a while and she will get upset and it will ruin her night. If however she asks you at another time, during the day perhaps, when looking nice is not the top priority at the time, if she needs to lose some weight, then tell her the truth. And not "yeah about three stone" but maybe " yeah - why dont we start going for walk in the evenings/go to a gym/stop eating rubbish at the cinema for a month and see if we can do it etc ". People who need to lose weight need support and positive suggestions - not negative comments which will ruin their self esteem and ecourage them to eat.

I do agree that it shouldn't be ignored - but you should wait until the person themselves brings up the subject.