These are not true friends. What do you think?

SteamTrean

Dan133269 wrote:

Steam Train you've undermined your original point a bit with your last post do you realize that?

Sorry Dan, I can't see it. Enlighten me.

SteamTrean

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Oh no really, stupidity just requires a little more thought and a little more application. Perhaps a side order of consideration, and a smidgen of getting over yourself.

See the OP was right, people get so defensive when you just point out the things that everyone else can see.

People also get defensive when people attack them without provocation even if the attack is a dud.

Dragan

greenkittie wrote:

Losing weight just isn't as easy as its made out to be.

It's not really as difficult as most people make it out to be either.

The Sweeper

skywalker wrote:

I think MAJD is trying to say (in a really roundabout way and using a very badly thought out example) that fat people cant help themselves.

No I'm not. Where did I say that? I'm just stating an obvious fact - you know, like the OP was.

Dragan

Guys,

i think the thread had a degree of potential with regard to the whole "lying to friends to make them feel better" but i imagine it will now be closed?

Maybe if we can swing it back on topic it might be okay?

I think the simple fact is everyone lies to friends and family to make them feel better, because if someone has some kind of issue, you don't want to make that worse.

There will normally be however, some kind of subtle way to help them out.

The Hill Billy

Dragan wrote:

i think the thread had a degree of potential with regard to the whole "lying to friends to make them feel better"

Lying?

I thought that this thread was about telling friends to lose weight so that they would (in the opinion of the teller) be more attractive to the opposite (or same?) sex regardless of how the tellee felt about their own body image.

phantom_lord

I think the op is correct what he says.

Dragan

Hill Billy wrote:

Lying?

I thought that this thread was about telling friends to lose weight so that they would (in the opinion of the teller) be more attractive to the opposite (or same?) sex regardless of how the tellee felt about their own body image.

I kind of took from the OP that he meant a real friend should tell the truth, not lie about something to make the person feel better?

connundrum

Seeing as no one actually knows Steam Train's friend, we can hardly say whether it would be right or wrong to tell the friend that she could afford to lose a few pounds.

I'd suggest that Steam Train should go and have that conversation with the friend, and then report back to us.

Regardless of if it goes well or not so well, we'll all learn from Steam Train's experience. Thanks for volunteering yourself.

Littlemonkey

Em... I am a couple of stone heavier than i should be, wasn't always heavy but i am now, and i am trying to do something about it, but if some guy came up to in a club/pub and told me i was a good looking but had to lose some weight i wouldn't be that offended, i would be a bit upset but i wouldn't run off crying, i actually think it would motivate my ass to lose some weight.

As for telling friends they need to lose weight or they look bad in certain things they wear, i always ask my friends opinions on clothes i am wearing and i tell them to be brutally honest, i would prefere that than walking down the street and everyone thinking i looked ridiculous, And i know i can rely on my bestfriend and my mum to tell me what looks good and what doesn't. Maybe i'm just not as sensitive as others

SystemError

SteamTrean wrote:

One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame.

What do you want them to say ? "No fatty, you look like a whale, drop and give me 50!" ??
If someone is overweight and wants to lose a bit its up to them. I assume they have a mirror and therefore know theyre overweight. They dont need their friends to drill it into them that theyre fat.

Besides, whats it to you ?

If you dont like it, dont look.

Simple as.

SteamTrean

SystemError wrote:

What do you want them to say ? "No fatty, you look like a whale, drop and give me 50!" ??
If someone is overweight and wants to lose a bit its up to them. I assume they have a mirror and therefore know theyre overweight. They dont need their friends to drill it into them that theyre fat.

Besides, whats it to you ?

If you dont like it, dont look.

Simple as.

You haven't read the Thread you just read the opening post and you didn't even really pick up what I was laying down in it. This has caused you to repeat what someone else has said and it has also ensured your firm grip on the wrong end of the stick.

Black Swan

In different shapes and forms this topic keeps reappearing like a bad penny over the past few months. I'm into martial arts, very fit and thin, but I still don't understand why the overweight chick theme keeps coming up. The OP is not suggesting that a thread like this is going to change people to where they are going to all of a sudden begin exercising and dieting? So what's the point? This has got to hurt some girls feelings, so why beat the drum so much? You'd think it was Marching Season on girls with a weight problem?


Is this another one of those trolling threads? *Runs to closet and pulls out flamethrower. Looks at gage. Blast! All out of fuel! Ruu must of drained my tank.

The Sweeper

Boards.ie, for nerds and Stepford Wives.

Dragan

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

In different shapes and forms this topic keeps reappearing like a bad penny over the past few months. I'm into martial arts, very fit and thin, but I still don't understand why the overweight chick theme keeps coming up. The OP is not suggesting that a thread like this is going to change people to where they are going to all of a sudden begin exercising and dieting? So what's the point? This has got to hurt some girls feelings, so why beat the drum so much? You'd think it was Marching Season on girls with a weight problem?

It's because most people cannot understand why someone would not want to have an appearance that they find attractive. This is largely the reason why and girls can be just as bad about it as guys can.

A girl is overweight, dresses "bad", is a "D4 Chick", is a "goth".... a guy is overweigth, dresses "poorly" , is a "jock", is a "metal head"...whatever it is, people seem to be obsessed with the idea of pointing out why they would not be attracted to someone, as if to prove that they are attracted to anyone at all.

Faith

Okay, time to throw in my two cents. Yes, there are many women out there who would look fantastic if they lost some weight. Yes, their friends might lie when they tell them that they look good in such and such an outfit, but they're only saying it to be kind.

But who are you to say whether they'd be happier if they're thinner? Who are you to judge their mental state? I know many very thin women who're very unhappy, just as I know many heavy women who're very happy. I'd love to be a size 4 like the celebrities are, but I know that, if I was, I still wouldn't be much, if any, happier in myself.

Blush_01

I'm a big girl (hehe... that's no understatement). I'm acutely aware of my size, as most people in my position are. I don't need to ask my friends if I should lose weight - I'm not stupid. But until I can get myself motivated, all the advice in the world won't do anything but make me think that my friends are embarrassed to be with me if they bring it up. I have one particular friend who's a stunning size 8/10. One day we were chatting and the whole weight issue came up, and she told me I'd look far better if I was smaller. In that context, I appreciated her honesty. But if it comes out of nowhere, and it hasn't come up in conversation, I'd view it very differently. Likewise, I'm hyper-conscious of covering myself properly - I'm never going to wear a miniskirt, hotpants, a boob tube etc. because I'm smart enough to know they'd look revolting on me. But if I did wear something blatantly unsuitable for me, I'd expect a good friend to suggest an alternative.

As Dragan said, it's not that difficult to lose weight. It is, however, difficult to keep the excess weight off. One example: I lost 5 stone in the space of 6 months and was so miserable I couldn't maintain it. I was constantly sick, despite eating healthily, certain factors of daily living went haywire, I hated myself. It's not the only time I've lost weight - I've been dieting on and off since I was 7, that's 14 years worth of dieting at the moment. I'm comfortable as I am at the moment, having put that weight back on. I don't actively care what anyone thinks about how I look. It saddens me at times that I can't manage to keep weight off when I lose it, but I'm the one responsible for that, nobody else. Until I can get the lead out and motivate myself organically, it's worth nothing because it will lead nowhere.

See, being so acutely aware of the situation I've put myself in, I don't need to ask anyone's advice on how I look - I know it instinctively. But I sometimes do ask advice - about my hair, how x item of clothing looks on me prior to purchase etc. and I expect an honest response. I tend to ask people who know how acutely aware of myself I am, so they won't make it the focal issue in their response. I'm no idiot, I know how they think about it, it's the individual aspect I'm looking for an opinion on, not a general opinion.

I agree to an extent with the OP, and feel that at the centre of things he has a very good point. If you ask for advice, then the response you get should be honest. But if you don't ask for it, then it's usually because you know the answer you'll get. Don't underestimate the awareness of people simply because you've acknowledged an issue you feel needs to be tackled and you feel they're not tackling it.

Kolodny

SteamTrean wrote:

if I said to a girl like this.. “jesus; you know what; if you lost a few pounds you would be gorgeous and probably one of the fittest women in the room” She would probably cry, even though it was a sincere and well meaning compliment.

Sorry, but whatever way I look at that I can't see a compliment. Honest yes, but you're still telling someone you think they're overweight and (at least in their present shape) unattractive. That could be considered very insulting. Whether you think you’re giving your (quite possibly unwanted) opinion for the improvement of their health or their personal life, it’s a very sensitive issue for some people and trying to dress up "I might fancy you if you weren't fat" as a compliment still probably won't do wonders for the average larger woman's self-esteem. Believe it or not, it's highly likely she's well aware that she's carrying more weight than is necessary and doesn't need to be told this by some charmer who prefers the skinny type anyway. And, just maybe, some of these larger women are quite happy the way they are and couldn't give a shít if you find them attractive or not.

SteamTrean wrote:

Her skinny friend would then console her saying “What does he know- you look gorgeous, lets go get a big tub of Ben & Jerry’s”. Am I wrong? Should a true friend not try to be more actively supportive and helpful, rather than pulling more wool around the eyes of there afflicted friends?

Of course that’s not a true friend. That’s a person who likes to make others look bad in contrast to themself in order to boost their own ego. Bit of a pointless question, surely. And even so, the best of friends can find it difficult to broach delicate subjects for fear of causing hurt, embarrassment or damage to a mate's self-confidence. Others may not feel it's their place to interfere at all.

SteamTrean wrote:

One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame

What would be a shame is if everyone felt obliged to point out the flaws they perceive in other people.

SteamTrean wrote:

I think weight looks good on some women.. but on most, it is definitely a turn off.

If it bothers you so much that these stunning, heavy girls don't seem to want to lose weight or they are being held back by their bitchy, skinny 'friends', surely there are plenty of effortlessly slim and attractive women in the world you might find more of a turn on.

Thrill

It appear that looks are the OP's main hangup imo. She would look nice,stunning, fit etc. I don't see anything about ugly fat girls anywhere. A little like Shallow Hal if you ask me.

Would you go up to one and say "Jesus, if you lost a few pound you'd still be horrible looking and one of the ugliest women in the room".

If the answer is no then you would be a hypocrite and if the answer the answer is yes then you are an insensitive p*ick

At least you'd be being sincere and well meaning.

BlitzKrieg

Ok only really got to reading the first post. took a while to digest.

buuuut

“What does he know- you look gorgeous, lets go get a big tub of Ben & Jerry’s”. Am I wrong? Should a true friend not try to be more actively supportive and helpful, rather than pulling more wool around the eyes of there afflicted friends?

*scratches head*

how do I put this.

Unified front?

If someone is your friend male or female and you are publicly put on a spot that is either very cruel or very unflattering etc etc. Your friend will stand by you.


But when its just you and your friend, in my experiance it becomes constructive and honest.

For example, this happened last week.

We have a 19 year old girl at work who we being workmates and friends playfully make comments, and as much comes back. Now personnally I dont make any comments about her wieght because I too am overwieght, but I do make jokes about her flirty relationship with a fellow co-worker (despite being engaged.) Now thats was all fine, she laughed and made similar comments back to us.

Last Saturday we went out for a few drinks, and some random drunk in a pub made a comment about her wieght and one of the co-worker's started making jokes about it too. This hurt her. It really really hurt her. Its not that he made these comments but that he made them publicly in the middle of a pub and he took the side of some drunk stranger ripping into her over her.

You've got it backwards. A true friend would know when the topic of one's wieght or other such taboos should be discussed seriously and when it shouldnt be, they should also know that even if the person (i.e you with the 'loose some wieght comment') is right, a friend shouldnt isolate her and make matters worse in many more levels then it really is.

I'm pretty sure, that the same girl who defends her friend in a pub or club over such comments will be the one ringing up the next day seeing if she wants to go to the pool.


A true friend doesnt tell you your fat, they tell how to loose the fat.

metaoblivia

I've been lucky to have a fast metabolism and small bone structure. But my best friend of 20 years (we've been friends since before grade school :eek: ) is, and always has been, a large girl. She's taller than most men and puts on weight quite easily.
She knows she's big. She knows a lot of guys don't find her attractive. She doesn't need me to tell her that she needs to lose weight. She's been on and off diets since she was 10. She tries working out as much as she can (she was born with a spinal deformity that has put her in a wheelchair or on crutches for several years). Sometimes, she asks my opinion on clothes, and I give her an honest opinion, politely of course. But her self image is already so poor that she doesn't need 'constructive criticism' or backhanded compliments from her best friend.
When someone does say something to her that makes her feel bad (which happens quite a bit, unfortunately) I certainly don't suggest an ice cream binge. I stand up for her as any friend should and try my best to help her pick the pieces of her ego.
A true friend should be honest, but they should also keep their friend's feelings in mind. Weight is a very sensitive subject for most women.

SteamTrean

As tends to happen with long theads we have come full circle. Everything has been said a few times. I put up this thread to find out what people thought and I've pretty much found out. Some of you seem to think that I am shallow. Well I'm not, I don't have a very good physic if I'm honest but If a friend of mine offered me a false compliment I'd be insulted and as far as I'm concerned friends shouldn't insult each other. A quote that says what I am saying although a lot more eloquently:

It is one of the severest tests of friendship to tell your friend his faults. So to love a man that you cannot bear to see a stain upon him, and to speak painful truth through loving words, that is friendship.
Henry Ward Beecher

kevmy

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Boards.ie, for nerds and Stepford Wives.

Should that not be for nerds with Stepford Wives:D

dvega

A girl came up to me the other day,a woman which i knew very well and said 'you put on weight' everyone just laughed and so did i.Now imgine if i turned around and said 'you put on a bit too' which she had,she would probably turn around a slap me!

The Hill Billy

SteamTrean wrote:

If a friend of mine offered me a false compliment I'd be insulted and as far as I'm concerned friends shouldn't insult each other.

There's a world of a difference in paying someone a false compliment (eg, "You look slim in that") to offering a brutal opinion - not necessarily the "truth" as you call it (eg, "If you lost 4 stone good-looking guys might fcuk you").

SteamTrean wrote:

It is one of the severest tests of friendship to tell your friend his faults. So to love a man that you cannot bear to see a stain upon him, and to speak painful truth through loving words, that is friendship.
Henry Ward Beecher

If Henry Ward Beecher said "Hey SteamTrean - go stick a needle in your eye" - would you do it?

lacuna

SteamTrean wrote:

It is one of the severest tests of friendship to tell your friend his faults. So to love a man that you cannot bear to see a stain upon him, and to speak painful truth through loving words, that is friendship.
Henry Ward Beecher

That doesn't mean you have to tell your friend out of the blue a list of faults that he has. Besides, if your friend is hearing a list of faults from different people, whose opinion of his faults should he listen to? For example, one of my friends has a trait that I don't particulary like in people, but another mutual friend, thinks it's admirable. If we were both to tell our friend our opinions, who should he heed?

I know this isn't about a personality trait, but instead about a persons weight, which can have health risks associated with it. But you seem to be using the argument that people who are fat are unhealthy and people who are thin are healthy, in order to justify the fact that you're not attracted to fat people. There are plenty of slim people who are far more unhealthy than people who have a few extra pounds on them. Obviously obesity is a major health risk, but without asking your friends for their BMI (body mass index) how do you know how much weight they need to lose. You're not a professional. You're just judging on your personal preferences. Also, it'd be better for someone to remain at the same weight even if it's slightly more than ideal, rather than to be losing weight and putting it on again constantly.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you feeling that you'd be more attracted to someone if they lost some weight. But saying it to someone and expecting them to take it as a compliment is ridiculous. The woman is a certain weight. When you say it to her, you may as well be saying that you don't find her attractive and instead you find someone else, who is thinner than her, attractive. You can't look at a woman and just see the "potential her" if she was thinner, because that isn't and might never be her.

newestUser

If you hadn't used the example of an overweight woman here, and asked something like "is it ok to lie to your friends to spare their feelings", we might have had a civil, enlightening discussion here. Oh shoot.

<edited to remove line that was taking thread off topic>

SteamTrean wrote:

A good friend of mine and I were talking whilst walking home from shopping in Tesco last night. One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame.

Perhaps your skinny friend who can eat whatever she wants and not put on an ounce is happy, even if it’s only subconsciously, that she looks better in a swimming suit than you do. Me and my buddy, who will no doubt respond to this thread with support also noted that; if I said to a girl like this.. “jesus; you know what; if you lost a few pounds you would be gorgeous and probably one of the fittest women in the room” She would probably cry, even though it was a sincere and well meaning compliment. Her skinny friend would then console her saying “What does he know- you look gorgeous, lets go get a big tub of Ben & Jerry’s”. Am I wrong? Should a true friend not try to be more actively supportive and helpful, rather than pulling more wool around the eyes of there afflicted friends?

Please save comments about some men liking a woman with a bit of meat for some other thread. I am specifically talking about women who want to be thinner but probably lack the drive to do something about it. I think weight looks good on some women.. but on most, it is definitely a turn off.

JustCoz

This a very sensitive issue for most women. I don't think telling a stranger they'd look great if they lost a few stone is a good move, she already knows she needs to lose weight and hearing it from a stranger would probably just make matters worse. Depression leads to comfort eating

SystemError

SteamTrean wrote:

You haven't read the Thread you just read the opening post and you didn't even really pick up what I was laying down in it. This has caused you to repeat what someone else has said and it has also ensured your firm grip on the wrong end of the stick.

Youre right, I only read the opening post because unless I start a new thread Im not bothered reading eveyone elses opinion, I simply post mine.
I know exactly what the thread is about and my opinion still stands:
unless youre friend directly asks you about her weight, its none of your business. If your friend asks you does her bum look big in those pants it usually means "does my bum look bigger than it usually does"
Also, just because you think theyre fat and therefore unnatractive, doesnt mean their friends think that. I have friends who are bigger than me but by no means unnatractive, and I dont think losing weight would make them happier/prettier (even if they think it will).
Youre very immature if you can see past bodyweight. If you find someone unnatractive because theyre heavy, why go on about it ? Just leave them be, its their problem (if a problem at all) not anyone elses.

Binomate

I'd say about half the people here replying in disgust to SteamTrean's posts have probably a few pounds too many on them. Just a guess. All he has done is made the observation that having people around you, who say "yes" to you all the time to comfort you instead of presenting the sometimes uglier truth, is generally a bad thing.