These are not true friends. What do you think?

SteamTrean

A good friend of mine and I were talking whilst walking home from shopping in Tesco last night. One of the main topics was over-weight women who obviously would be stunning if they’d only loose a couple of stone. We were angry about the fact that their so-called friends probably tell them every Saturday night that they look great and that their bum definitely does not look big in those trousers.. Well it does. And it’s a shame.

Perhaps your skinny friend who can eat whatever she wants and not put on an ounce is happy, even if it’s only subconsciously, that she looks better in a swimming suit than you do. Me and my buddy, who will no doubt respond to this thread with support also noted that; if I said to a girl like this.. “jesus; you know what; if you lost a few pounds you would be gorgeous and probably one of the fittest women in the room” She would probably cry, even though it was a sincere and well meaning compliment. Her skinny friend would then console her saying “What does he know- you look gorgeous, lets go get a big tub of Ben & Jerry’s”. Am I wrong? Should a true friend not try to be more actively supportive and helpful, rather than pulling more wool around the eyes of there afflicted friends?

Please save comments about some men liking a woman with a bit of meat for some other thread. I am specifically talking about women who want to be thinner but probably lack the drive to do something about it. I think weight looks good on some women.. but on most, it is definitely a turn off.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

SteamTrean wrote:

if I said to a girl like this.. “jesus; you know what; if you lost a few pounds you would be gorgeous and probably one of the fittest women in the room”

While you mean well im sure there is probably a better way to broach the subject.

Also how would you feel if someone said that to YOR MA?!?





CHECKMATE

Sleepy

SteamTrean, you're going to be hung, drawn and quartered for this one.

I see your point, just can't imagine too many women agreeing with it. Personally I wonder why it's acceptable to tell a guy he's put on weight, whilst telling a girl the same thing would no doubt lead to tears, a screaming match, or her not talking to you for a few weeks.

hallelujah

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

While you mean well im sure there is probably a better way to broach the subject.

Also how would you feel if someone said that to YOR MA?!?





CHECKMATE

you should probably ignore this post steamtrean. I think you get bonus boards popularity points if you reference another posters mother in your post.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Someone had to do it sooner or later, this thread is gonna turn into a serious flaming and I just wanted to get in there before its locked...


Postcount++

hallelujah

Sleepy wrote:

SteamTrean, you're going to be hung, drawn and quartered for this one.

I see your point, just can't imagine too many women agreeing with it. Personally I wonder why it's acceptable to tell a guy he's put on weight, whilst telling a girl the same thing would no doubt lead to tears, a screaming match, or her not talking to you for a few weeks.

Fair point but the reason wimmen react like that is because of society. There are many more skinny wimmen role models then men. It isnt that uncool to be a fat(ish) man but for a woman, you're an outcast, unless maybe you are very funny (rare).

r3nu4l

Hmm, a friend of mine thought he was doing a friend a great favour when he bought her a copy of 'You are what you eat' by that anorexic-looking Scot, notadoctoratall Gillian McKeith! :rolleyes:

Imagine how that went down...

Anyway, yes honesty is a good tactic but sometimes it is better to ease into a discussion rather than jump in with both feet in your mouth!

Most women are acutely aware of therir weight and will at some stage comment on it, that's when you say 'Well, sure you have a little extra, lots of people do, but a bit of change in eating habits and a bit of exercise would sort that out no problem!' Then, continue the discussion and offer support!

Much better than 'yep, you sure are chunky but I'd bone you if you lost a few pounds!':rolleyes:

connundrum

hallelujah wrote:

you should probably ignore this post steamtrean. I think you get bonus boards popularity points if you reference another posters mother in your post.

Pfffft. Lies lies lies, who told you these blatant lies? Was it yore ma?

Steam Train, there is no such thing as a 'good friend' in those circumstances. You only want friends who will make you feel better about yourself ie. your a$$ doesn't look big in those jeans.

It is nearly impossible to take criticism from a close friend, and it is always easier if it was someone removed from the circle of friends who tells you that in fact, your a$$ is huge in them pants. It has always been that way and it always will.

If you feel the need to tell your friend the truth then you should.. but be prepared to have fewer and fewer friends as time goes by.

Dan133269

Unlike you SteamTrain, decent people don't assess their friends by their appearance. I never looked at someone and thought, "hmmm they're not fat, perhaps I'll start a friendship with them". Friends are there for their companions because they like their personalities, being fat has nothing to do with it.

If a friend of someone is fat, that's their life-choice, leave them alone to run their own lives. If they wanted to lose weight, they would do it themselves, not through ridicule and embarrassment from others.
You obviously have no idea of the pain people go through from being bullied for being physically different or whatever, if you had any sense of morals you wouldn't even bring up the topic, let alone consider saying it to someone.

I could easily say to you, if you only went to the gym a bit more often, ate healthier etc you might end up building up a bit of muscle. Or I could say something like if you only got your priorities right you could get yourself a good education and get a better job. These are just examples of how what you're saying about these people could be reversed and turned onto you to see how you would feel, obviously I don't know you and you may very well be an educated muscular person or whatever.

Bottom line is everybody has weaknesses, nobody is perfect, least of all physically. Being a fat person with a nice personality is a lot better than being a complete idiot regardless of body type.

SteamTrean

I take all your points. I agree with Hallelujah about the whole society thing. That accounts for the reaction that I would get for my bullish, semi-compliment too. You can't go around saying that. I guess their friends couldn't really say it either.

Re: My Mother. That reminds me. When I was younger and lived at home my mother would come into the living room if she was going out, to ask my sister; "Does this look alright?" My sister's answer was an automatic "It's lovely Ma" She couldn't say anything else. I tried to intervene on occasion if it really wasn't (alright) but I would be met with hostility. SOME Women can be overly sensitve about these things. I admire devestating honesty. Not Simon Cowellish stuff, meant for comic affect, but sincere constructive criticism.

greenkittie

They have no need to be told by their friends, there's such a thing as mirrors these days. Losing weight just isn't as easy as its made out to be.

SteamTrean

Dan133269 wrote:

Unlike you SteamTrain, decent people don't assess their friends by their appearance. I never looked at someone and thought, "hmmm they're not fat, perhaps I'll start a friendship with them". Friends are there for their companions because they like their personalities, being fat has nothing to do with it.

If a friend of someone is fat, that's their life-choice, leave them alone to run their own lives. If they wanted to lose weight, they would do it themselves, not through ridicule and embarrassment from others.
You obviously have no idea of the pain people go through from being bullied for being physically different or whatever, if you had any sense of morals you wouldn't even bring up the topic, let alone consider saying it to someone.

I could easily say to you, if you only went to the gym a bit more often, ate healthier etc you might end up building up a bit of muscle. Or I could say something like if you only got your priorities right you could get yourself a good education and get a better job. These are just examples of how what you're saying about these people could be reversed and turned onto you to see how you would feel, obviously I don't know you and you may very well be an educated muscular person or whatever.

Bottom line is everybody has weaknesses, nobody is perfect, least of all physically. Being a fat person with a nice personality is a lot better than being a complete idiot regardless of body type.

Muscular: not really. My job is alright but I could get better. If you were a friend of mine which would be a highly unlikely scenario and you did offer me such advice; if you were a true friend, I would be grateful.

re: "Unlike you SteamTrain, decent people don't ..." As you've said, you don't know me and I don't screen would-be friends for physical imperfections.. and I can't see where in my original post you would have gotten an idea like that. I suggest you read it again.

re: [I never looked at someone and thought, "hmmm they're not fat, perhaps I'll start a friendship with them".] You are a saint among men.. I do this every weekend.

Winnie001

Only possible way I can see of approaching situation is to mayb see if the friend wants to join you for some exercise classes or something or both of you going to ww - that is being a supportive friend.
But blatently telling someone that they are fat & need to lose weight it not being a friend.
There is a difference between being a supportive friend & being a cruel b****. If the person is happy with their weight then what diff does it make, if they arent then you need to find ways to be supportive & help without being mean & pushy.

r3nu4l

Dan133269 wrote:

If a friend of someone is fat, that's their life-choice, leave them alone to run their own lives. If they wanted to lose weight, they would do it themselves, not through ridicule and embarrassment from others.

Disagree slightly, if you truly care for a friend you will be concerned about their lifestyle! Would you ignore an alcoholic friend who was destroying their body and life? Why ignore an over-eater?

Also, I have a friend who has been battling her weight for years and is very unhappy. She has lost weight, put it on and lost it again through diet and exercise (or lack of). A true friend will help, encourage and support and also warn her when she is in danger of succumbing to her old ways!

Dan133269 wrote:

I could easily say to you, if you only went to the gym a bit more often, ate healthier etc you might end up building up a bit of muscle. Or I could say something like if you only got your priorities right you could get yourself a good education and get a better job.

Hmmm, good education etc... you can live a very healthy lifestyle and not endanger your life and health if you have a poor education, it can be harder and there is a direct link to social and economic status and obesity!

Dan133269 wrote:

Bottom line is everybody has weaknesses, nobody is perfect, least of all physically. Being a fat person with a nice personality is a lot better than being a complete idiot regardless of body type.

I agree that a friend should never consider a persons body type on the basis of body type but once a friendship is established and that person has expressed dissatisfaction with their body or is destroying their lives with alcohol or drugs then a real friend will step in rather than ignore it!

Rb

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

Someone had to do it sooner or later


Postcount++

No, they didn't...this certainly wasn't a "yore ma" response thread and I'm sure its not a postcount ++ one either.

OP: I understand what you're saying though, maybe they're just trying to avoid hurting the persons feelings or more negatively, maybe they're trying to just make sure they have someone to look better when standing beside them. I'm sure its more to do with the former rather than the latter though.

Idbatterim

The Op makes very valid points!

hallelujah

I think the steamtrean means this:

Beautiful looking fat girls may be happy but we all know that they would be much happier if they were'nt so heavy. They would go from being mid-table to champions if they lost some of their weight. He is saying that some friends would know this but would refuse to say this to their heavier friends for fear of a backlash, whereas if they were proper friends they would say it. The heavy girl may be hurt but realise that their friend is taking sense and loose some weight. Next thing you know, the now slimmer girl is getting all the lads attention and has never looked back, remaining friends with the 'insensitive' one. Real friends should want the very best for their friends.

Rb

Just had a sudden recollection of the last thread regarding weight on AH. I'm getting out of this one while I can!

kevmy

Dan133269 wrote:

Unlike you SteamTrain, decent people don't assess their friends by their appearance. I never looked at someone and thought, "hmmm they're not fat, perhaps I'll start a friendship with them". Friends are there for their companions because they like their personalities, being fat has nothing to do with it.

If a friend of someone is fat, that's their life-choice, leave them alone to run their own lives. If they wanted to lose weight, they would do it themselves, not through ridicule and embarrassment from others.
You obviously have no idea of the pain people go through from being bullied for being physically different or whatever, if you had any sense of morals you wouldn't even bring up the topic, let alone consider saying it to someone.

I don't think that being fat is necessarily a life choice. I'm carrying a couple stone extra and I didn't make a choice to be fat. In fact I've made a concious decision to try and lose some weight if only for health reasons etc. If one of my female friends (cos lets face it it would be a little strange if the guys did this) said to me "oh kevmy you'd look a lot better without the weight" I think I take that as encouragement and a reason to do it rather than an insult.
I think a little encouragement to lose weight from close friends would be a lot better than saying "your grand sure your not really fat at all" when by looking in the mirror and using a bit of cop on you can see that you are.
I don't knw though maybe thats a guy thing

The Sweeper

You might have a point SteamTrean, but you know you're post would probably be one of the best ones on boards if you were just a little bit less stupid.

Now before you all rush to defend him, you know I'm right. Perhaps there's something you could do about it SteamTrean? Maybe it's not your fault you're stupid, and it's just your glands? I'm sure if you joined some sort of group three nights a week you could tighten up the slow-reacting bits of your mind in no time.

Don't cry just because I said you're stupid, it's really meant as a comment to try and help you to help yourself. Your friend is probably going to pile in now and say there's nothing wrong with you and take you off to post on some different forums, but he's really doing you no favours.

Everyone else, please save comments about personal abuse for another thread, I'm specifically talking about this poster being stupid.

Dan133269

r3nu4l wrote:

Disagree slightly, if you truly care for a friend you will be concerned about their lifestyle! Would you ignore an alcoholic friend who was destroying their body and life? Why ignore an over-eater?

Is someone with a bit of a belly destroying their body and life because they could look better?
Why ignore an over-eater? Because someone who is just a little bit fat is not putting themself in danger of health problems.
If I had a friend who was morbidly obese or their size was stopping them doing things that they should be able to do, then I would certainly say it to them.

The Hill Billy

I don't think it is anyone's place to tell their friends how to "improve" themselves. "Improve" from who's perspective? Yours? That's a bit damn presumptious. I accept my friends for who they are not for what I think they should be.

If a friend had an obvious issue with some aspect of themselves I would offer advice if I could. But tell a friend to "lose weight & you could be getting a ride morning, noon & night"? I don't think so.

galah

Hm, as a skinny woman, I find it hard to judge the appearance of my friends and tell them to lose weight - because that could cause a lot of resentment, jealousy and hurt. And for what? In the perfect world, people would take this comment on board, start exercising, and be ever so grateful. In real life, this will probably cause a rift (raft/drift - can't find the right word right now) in the friendship.

Obviously, if a (for argument's sake overweight) friend decides to wear a mini-skirt and a boob tube with lots of bits popping out and asked me what I thought, I would tell her nicely to maybe reconsider her choice of attire. And if weight comes up in a discussion, and a friend asks me for my honest opinion, I would tell her (and have done so in the past) if I think she could lose a pound or two. And I would expect my friends to be honest with me, as well. But spontaneous prompts about weight and appearance, and telling people that they could do with losing weight without being asked is a bad idea!

And as someone else said - friendships are not about appearance, they are however about honesty (in that respect, I do agree with the OP - I could not tell someone they looked great if I actually didn't think so, and it seems a lot of women in this country DO lie to their friends about that (or should have gone to Specsavers..)...)

Binomate

'Yes people' are never good. It's probably the only reason Paris Hilton has that joke of a singing career. But I might add, it's what is inside that counts...........


if you're blind.

SteamTrean

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

You might have a point SteamTrean, but you know you're post would probably be one of the best ones on boards if you were just a little bit less stupid.

Now before you all rush to defend him, you know I'm right. Perhaps there's something you could do about it SteamTrean? Maybe it's not your fault you're stupid, and it's just your glands? I'm sure if you joined some sort of group three nights a week you could tighten up the slow-reacting bits of your mind in no time.

Don't cry just because I said you're stupid, it's really meant as a comment to try and help you to help yourself. Your friend is probably going to pile in now and say there's nothing wrong with you and take you off to post on some different forums, but he's really doing you no favours.

Everyone else, please save comments about personal abuse for another thread, I'm specifically talking about this poster being stupid.

This is rather dim. I may be stupid, you may be utterly retarded and even though your post was misinformed and without a valid point, I can't take from it that you are stupid or retarded so in saying so I would be making a huge presumption about you, based on nothing.

It would be like me saying you had AIDS. Just an unfounded silly and childish accusation. I am not trying to offend anyone, just raise an interesting question about what a true friend......actually.. I can tell that you don't really take in everything you read so I'll leave it there. Now that was based on something.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Hill Billy wrote:

If a friend had an obvious issue with some aspect of themselves I would offer advice if I could. But tell a friend to "lose weight & you could be getting a ride morning, noon & night"? I don't think so.

Have to agree with that all my female friends know im into my fitness and are always asking my advice and i even offered to take them out running with me if they were self concious - they didnt take me up on the offer


Also looks like I was right all along when I said this thread was gonna turn into a flame war! and before it does... Postcount++

The Sweeper

SteamTrean wrote:

This is rather dim. I may be stupid, you may be utterly retarded and even though your post was misinformed and without a valid point, I can't take from it that you are stupid or retarded so in saying so I would be making a huge presumption about you, based on nothing.

It would be like me saying you had AIDS. Just an unfounded silly and childish accusation. I am not trying to offend anyone, just raise an interesting question about what a true friend......actually.. I can tell that you don't really take in everything you read so I'll leave it there. Now that was based on something.

See? I knew you'd react badly when I was only trying to help. Seriously, your friends are probably no kind of friends at all.

hallelujah

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

You might have a point SteamTrean, but you know you're post would probably be one of the best ones on boards if you were just a little bit less stupid.

Now before you all rush to defend him, you know I'm right. Perhaps there's something you could do about it SteamTrean? Maybe it's not your fault you're stupid, and it's just your glands? I'm sure if you joined some sort of group three nights a week you could tighten up the slow-reacting bits of your mind in no time.

Don't cry just because I said you're stupid, it's really meant as a comment to try and help you to help yourself. Your friend is probably going to pile in now and say there's nothing wrong with you and take you off to post on some different forums, but he's really doing you no favours.

Everyone else, please save comments about personal abuse for another thread, I'm specifically talking about this poster being stupid.

I can see where you are going with this but what if the OP is stupid? Thats very different from being over weight. An over weight person being told they need to loose abit (and in doing so, become a stunner, isnt this what this thread is based on?) can at least try and loose weight. Apart from getting an education maybe, how do you become unstupid? You have made a silly point Minesajackdaniels.

Dan133269

Steam Train you've undermined your original point a bit with your last post do you realize that?

The Sweeper

Oh no really, stupidity just requires a little more thought and a little more application. Perhaps a side order of consideration, and a smidgen of getting over yourself.

See the OP was right, people get so defensive when you just point out the things that everyone else can see.

skywalker

I think MAJD is trying to say (in a really roundabout way and using a very badly thought out example) that fat people cant help themselves.

I have to say in a way I agree with the OP alright. But there are certain people in our lives we just dont expect criticism from, anything but very well thought out, loigical points with tonnes of positive reinforcement could lead to us seeing that person differently. It has to be said aswell that its much harder to do that with a woman than a guy. Sorry for the generalisation but its true.