Virgin

Dave!

OP, try to ignore the posts that include phrases such as "an expression of love between 2 people" (BARF)

If you want to go to a prostitute, go for it. I'd say you'll regret it in the long run though; not because you didn't lose it to someone you were in a long-term, loving, monogomous relationship with :rolleyes:, but because you'll probably be thinking "why am I the only one to lose my virginity to a prostitute?" and it'll f*ck up your self-esteem even more.

What you should concentrate on now is not losing your virginity, but gaining some self-esteem and confidence. There's alot of threads in this forum that deal with just that issue, so I'm sure if you look around you'll find good advice.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

dr.bollocko

I think I might address something overlooked in previous posts: It is possible that your first sexual experience could influence your attitude to having sex in the future. I am not talking about all the lovey dovey crap, we can throw that aside for now. I just mean, if you lose your virginity to a prostitute, that is rational, totally understandable at your age, I mean goddamn that must be a heavy noose to carry around sometimes. But, and this is why I think that there are potentially problems with losing it to a prostitute: What if you start thinking of all your sexual partners as partners in a transaction bereft of any emotion? Or develop a love / hate attitude to sex where physical desires exist pre-ejaculation and then total regret and self hatred exist, oh about 2 and a half seconds after coming. (This is the "rush of pain" similar to what those who cheat on their spouses / partners document experiencing.)

Then there is the other side of the coin. What if you have sex for the first time in a loving relationship? Then you have yourself in a situation where you love the girl not because she is the ONE, but because she is the ONLY. And once people know that they have the power in the relationship, its not human nature to nurture and respect that power, its human nature to ABUSE it, so if you were to have a relationship with a girl, who you subsequently lost your virginity to, it could end very badly, with you lost in love with some girl who has you wrapped so tightly around her little finger you will become her slave - whipped stupid. That's not good either.

From that point of view, it seems that your best bet would be a one night stand with a friend who understands (Man I WISH I had that friend!) or with someone you dont know. This would feed your need for self-esteem more so than your need to lose your virginity, and open up new options to you in the future. You would view it as the start of a new sexual phase in your life, rather than if you went to a prostitute, that would be the END of the non-sexual period of your adulthood. I think its always best to have new beginnings.

Other than that, something like a bordello or brothel experience, in an english speaking country, where you can chat to the girl, humanise her, be you in front of her, explain your situation to her, etc.
I have no experience of this type of interaction, but I think that you would want to think very carefully about your first time. Dont just think of it as stemming a need, sticking yourself in a hole, as I said, allow yourself to interact with the girl and develop some sort of rapport with her, or potentially risk forming the scars of later sexual neuroses.
Perhaps this mightnt happen until you have multiple partners. In that case, I would think, if you do decide to go down the paying for it route, maybe if you are on holiday, make it a sexual adventure involving numerous visits to different girls, not just one sordid pump and a dump that leaves you feeling empty inside.

vorbis

its not just the first time like someone said but the EXPERIENCE thats important. I had sex for the first time at 21. It was a ONS that didn't go very well. Looking back now, I was too focused on everything going well the first time. As others have said you need to have sex at least 20 times before you are comfortable with having sex. That part ****ed me up for a long while.

I'm fairly sociable and can chat away to a girl but my lack of sexual experience meant that i wasn't as confident in escalating things as I could be. Remember as a man, you're usually expected to make all the moves. If you're nervous about the sex part, that will put a dampener on your chances with future women.

My advice, see a prostitute if you'd like or lower your standards till you pull a girl aka fat girl. A great quote I heard about this is that guys who get laid are generally more practical than guys who aren't getting laid. They won't pass up a chance to ride the chubby girl who's hitting on him. Experience is key!

Seraphina

DaveMcG wrote:

OP, try to ignore the posts that include phrases such as "an expression of love between 2 people" (BARF)

i take it that was directed at me :rolleyes: in case you didn't notice i actually said alot more, what i was implying was essentially rather than making him feel better because he lost his virginity, he'll feel cheap cause he had to pay for it when most other people dont.
it'll probably make his self esteem even worse. yeah random ****ing for the fun of it is all well and good when you're experienced and self confident, but otherwise you'll probably just end up feeling empty and more alone, as notproud said.

on the other hand, i dont see the point of trying to explain myself to a guy who's counting down teh 7 months to thailand. any wonder what you're going to be doing there eh?

Chucky the tree

At least go to amsterdam for the weed. Great fun. Sharing a room with 8 randomers will be a good way to get you more confident talking to people you dont know.


And, chances are you will far too binned to be able to see a hooker.

Fanny Cradock

want2play wrote:

Just back from a stag weekend in Amsterdam and the stag was sent to a window with a nice nurse behind, we pushed him in, paid her €50 (suck + ****) he came out 20 minutes later smiling......

She told him to wipe with a baby-wipe she put a condom on him (with her mouth - he found that amazing?) he got a BJ for about 10 minutes then had intercourse with her for about 10 minutes.

She was a great laugh as were most of the (Dutch) girls we spoke to there, very chatty and happy.

That's a lot cheaper than i thought it would be...

Anyway, I'm sure that was a special and magical time for all involved :rolleyes:

I wonder will your mate regret this in time?

kittenkiller

Sex with a prostitute will just be sex, which is one thing.
But by not having to bother with getting to know someone beforehand you'll miss out on most of the experience.

I'm not going to bang on about "making love", but sex should be fun and enjoyable with fore & after play to make it something worthwhile to remember.

I'm taking about the anticipation of "is this gonna be the night?", slipping your arm around her waist as you walk along side by side, the 1st time you see her (or help) take her clothes off, realising you can't remember taking in a breathe in the last few minutes because you've been so carried away, being able to calm things down halfway if you want to prolong things (without worrying that you'll get charged more), being able to just lie there afterwards in total awe at what just happened (without having to hurry to get dressed because yer1's next "client" is already waiting outside).

OP, don't pressure yourself.
There are plenty of normal women out there who'll be interested in you once you're in the right mindset to go for it.

Read through the posts by the guys who've admitted visiting prostitutes, none of them are proud enough to post under their boards.ie names nevermind their actual names.
Your first time shouldn't be shrouded by shame. Nor should any other time.

Be patient for another while longer (that'll come in handy once you get inthe sack with someone too!).

When you look back on things, I'm sure it'd be nice to think that your 1st time was special to the other person as well as to yourself.

LegacyUser

dr.bollocko wrote:

Then there is the other side of the coin. What if you have sex for the first time in a loving relationship? Then you have yourself in a situation where you love the girl not because she is the ONE, but because she is the ONLY. And once people know that they have the power in the relationship, its not human nature to nurture and respect that power, its human nature to ABUSE it, so if you were to have a relationship with a girl, who you subsequently lost your virginity to, it could end very badly, with you lost in love with some girl who has you wrapped so tightly around her little finger you will become her slave - whipped stupid. That's not good either.

Sorry but what?? I've been going out with my boyfriend for years, i'm his first girlfriend and we lost our virginity to each other. How this we mean that i somehow own him or have him as my whipped slave i'd love to know.

I hope the OP takes no notice of what you say because it is utter rubbish, i worry about what kind of girls you've gone out with if thats how you feel about women.

OP i'd say wait til you find someone you really like, it'll be so much better.

oceansize

jules80 wrote:

OP, don't do that. You are really worth more. Dont be in a rush to lose your virginity, tbh most of the time your not missing out on much anyway. A friend of mine lost his virginity to a pro in amsterdam and he regrets it to this day. I know im prolly gonna get a slagging for this but you virginity is something very special and you should not cheapen it by paying some woman, who stands in a window for all to see and who will just get up, get dressed and got stand in her window for the next punter, to have sex with you.

You are worth more than that!!!

24 Years is a long time to be waiting Jules. He's in no rush!

I'd say that if you did do it with a prossie, you'd be able to put it down to experience. And when you did meet someone you actually are going to have sex with after that, you'd have already done it, and wouldn't be so nervous!

Ickle Magoo

ProssieSeeker wrote:

I am a 24 male virgin. I'll be honest, that doesnt look like it going to change for a while (low self-esteem, when I'm out I cant even talk to women etc. usual stuff). Which is why I am now thinking about going to Amsterdam to have sex with a prostitute for the very first time.

Like, I know prostitution is legal over there but do all the women there do it of their own free will? I would never go looking for a prostitute in Ireland because of the trafficking problem. However, is it any better in Holland? Is there actually women who do it because they simply love having sex all the time???

Sure, it'd be great to meet a girl normally and things to run their course that way but as I said its not gonna happen.

Well, maybe I'm just a cynic but I find it hard to believe that any woman would want to make a career out of giving sexual favours to or having sex with random men for money & courting all the dangers that brings - for the sheer joy of it. In my experience any woman who wants to have sex can walk into any pub or club & leave with one of several lads!

If you think a visit to a prostitute will help you in some way then go for it. I'm just not sure what you think it will help with. OK, so if all goes well you may not be a virgin, you'll be a lad who has had sex once with a prostitute - is that really so much better? You still won't know what it is like to wake up next to a lover, chat someone up & talk them into bed, play around & have sex in lots of positions 5 times during the night...you will know none of the fun reasons why sex with a partner you fancy is so great & you will experience none of the fantastic ways you can pleasure your partner - you will just know the physical feeling of ejaculating into a woman you have paid for the privilage. If that's all you want then I don't see a problem.

Motley Crue

im surpised at the amount of people responding to this thread with the same problem as the OP, what the hell is wrong with Irish woman, are they not interested...or are other people taking two at a time? isnt there 4 times as much women as men in ireland, arent we outnumbered, it shouldnt be that hard to get laid...no pun intended

Ickle Magoo

Motley Crue wrote:

im surpised at the amount of people responding to this thread with the same problem as the OP, what the hell is wrong with Irish woman, are they not interested...or are other people taking two at a time? isnt there 4 times as much women as men in ireland, arent we outnumbered, it shouldnt be that hard to get laid...no pun intended

I could turn that around & ask what the hell is wrong with Irish men that the women don't want to sleep with them - but that would just be mean

vorbis

People make this stuff too simplistic, he doesn't plan to see prostitutes for the rest of his life. The fact is that if you're a virgin at 24 and you don't want to be, then SOMETHING is going wrong. The OP wants to end up with the idealistic scenario you describe but his lack of sexual experience will inhibit that. Going to prostitute (or shagging an unattractive girl) is to gain experience so that he can ACTUALLY attain the end goal. Men are not the same as women. A guy who's slept with 20 women is generally far far more attractive to a woman than a guy who's a virgin.

Ickle Magoo wrote:

Well, maybe I'm just a cynic but I find it hard to believe that any woman would want to make a career out of giving sexual favours to or having sex with random men for money & courting all the dangers that brings - for the sheer joy of it. In my experience any woman who wants to have sex can walk into any pub or club & leave with one of several lads!

If you think a visit to a prostitute will help you in some way then go for it. I'm just not sure what you think it will help with. OK, so if all goes well you may not be a virgin, you'll be a lad who has had sex once with a prostitute - is that really so much better? You still won't know what it is like to wake up next to a lover, chat someone up & talk them into bed, play around & have sex in lots of positions 5 times during the night...you will know none of the fun reasons why sex with a partner you fancy is so great & you will experience none of the fantastic ways you can pleasure your partner - you will just know the physical feeling of ejaculating into a woman you have paid for the privilage. If that's all you want then I don't see a problem.

Ickle Magoo

vorbis wrote:

A guy who's slept with 20 women is generally far far more attractive to a woman than a guy who's a virgin.

And how does that work? I can't tell the difference. Some guys say they have plenty of experience & are rotten in bed, others say they have none & are fantastic lovers so I'm not sure where you are getting your info from - is that your personal experience? The majority of women I know would prefer a virgin to corrupt than some bloke that has shagged a prostitute a couple of times & thinks he knows all there is to know about sex now, lol!

Seraphina

vorbis wrote:

A guy who's slept with 20 women is generally far far more attractive to a woman than a guy who's a virgin.

err... what?
im not too sure i'd find a guy who's slept with 20 women too attractive. my bf was a virgin when i met him. sure he was nervous and blah blah blah, but just because he hadn't ****ed 20 women before me doesn't mean he isn't great in bed.

empirix

want2play wrote:

Just back from a stag weekend in Amsterdam and the stag was sent to a window with a nice nurse behind, we pushed him in, paid her €50 (suck + ****) he came out 20 minutes later smiling......

She told him to wipe with a baby-wipe she put a condom on him (with her mouth - he found that amazing?) he got a BJ for about 10 minutes then had intercourse with her for about 10 minutes.

She was a great laugh as were most of the (Dutch) girls we spoke to there, very chatty and happy.

But only had this 1 experience with a prostitute, just too wrecked to stumble down by the canals.

Very few,ofm the brassers in the dam are Dutch - there all from eastern europe, africa, sth.america and asia - this my friend is a well known fact. Yes a lot of them will joke with you which i find bizarre, they do appear pretty happy, but they do have pimps, i have been to the dam many times and never even coinsidered doing a brasser, much better fun going to the sex shows and just looking at the brassers

empirix

Seraphina wrote:

err... what?
im not too sure i'd find a guy who's slept with 20 women too attractive. my bf was a virgin when i met him. sure he was nervous and blah blah blah, but just because he hadn't ****ed 20 women before me doesn't mean he isn't great in bed.

Well his not going to be great inb bed in fairnes, possibly after a few months of regular bum bum he might be, the man with experience is always bettter

LegacyUser

vorbis wrote:

People make this stuff too simplistic, he doesn't plan to see prostitutes for the rest of his life. The fact is that if you're a virgin at 24 and you don't want to be, then SOMETHING is going wrong. The OP wants to end up with the idealistic scenario you describe but his lack of sexual experience will inhibit that. Going to prostitute (or shagging an unattractive girl) is to gain experience so that he can ACTUALLY attain the end goal. Men are not the same as women. A guy who's slept with 20 women is generally far far more attractive to a woman than a guy who's a virgin.

LISTEN MATE FORGET ALL THE OTHER POSTS, THIS QUOTED POST IS THE BEST ADVICE.

IM SICK OF THIS THREAD BECAUSE PEOPLE HERE ARE TRYING TO MAKE THIS GUY FEEL BAD ABOUT GOING TO PROSTITUTE.
YES WELL DONE EVERYONE YOU HAVE SEX LIVES, THIS POOR BLOKE DOESN'T, YOU'RE ALL LAYING BULL**** MORALS ON HIM.

Mate, my advice is go for it, lose the virginity tag with a pro & get some pratice in! You know yourself that those other issues will need to be faced e.g shyness with women etc.. & yes of course having sex with someone you have feelings for is much better. This will happen to you in the future but I think you need some practice now, don't listen to these girls being sentimental & moralistic, WOMEN WANT A GUY WHO KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING, SIMPLE AS.
AT 24 I SAY GO FOR THE PROS, YOU'LL BE MORE CONFIDENT ABOUT IT AFTER THAT & WORK ON YOUR CONFIDENCE!!
Best of Luck!!

LegacyUser

Well, my post has certainly brought a wide spectrum of opinion to the fore.

"what the hell is wrong with Irish woman, are they not interested...or are other people taking two at a time? isnt there 4 times as much women as men in ireland, arent we outnumbered, it shouldnt be that hard to get laid"

hmm, its not the shortage of them thats the problem, its how to develop a relationship with them that is the problem

"OP i'd say wait til you find someone you really like, it'll be so much better."
That may never happen

I'd imagine most people lose their virginity by having a 1 night stand, surely visiting a prostitute isnt much different???

Seraphina

empirix wrote:

Well his not going to be great inb bed in fairnes, possibly after a few months of regular bum bum he might be, the man with experience is always bettter

you sleep with alot of men then?
the men with experience usually *think* they're great... and are fairly wrong about it...

LegacyUser

ProssieSeeker wrote:

I'd imagine most people lose their virginity by having a 1 night stand, surely visiting a prostitute isnt much different???

Well said OP. Advice already to the effect that cynically setting out to shag some poor fat bird is somehow morally above paying for a prostitute to me is ridicilous.

Alot of people who have posted already have not been to prostitutes.

My experience is this:

-I lost my virginity to an attractive girl, it was a one night stand, I've had a few one night stands since
-I have visited prostitutes in Amsterdam
-I have had sex in a long term relationship where feelings & emotions were involved

So forgive me posters but I think im in a better position to give advice here.

So OP, losing my virginity in a one night stand when younger was no different to having sex with the prossies. It was enjoyable physically & yes was transient. Because there were no feelings involved it does leave one missing that added intimacy involved when feelings between 2 people are concerned.
BUT its Experience!! Im glad I had these experiences cos when I did have sex with a girl where feelings were involved I knew what I was doing!!!
There are some very friendly girls in amsterdam which would be good for your first time. Check out this site ignatzmice.com it has all the info you'll need!!
To be honest, some girls you'll meet in Ireland would not be as understanding thats its your first time as the prossies in amsterdam!! Girls can be insensitive to mens feelings like that.
The prossies have been with many first timers they know how too handle it, but be warned some are ripp off artists, do you homework & check out the site, you'll find the right one for you there!!
Here's a tip, if you do go, go for one who looks genuinely friendly with a nice smile on their face!!

Good luck

Ickle Magoo

If the OP has to pay a woman to have sex with him then I don't see how this improves his chances of a woman wanting to have sex with him. The the two girls to comment on this thread agree that experience means nothing without technique & you don't learn that from an hours session with a prostitute...

If anything, the fact the lad has to pay to get a woman to have sex with him in the first place will reduce his self-esteem & make his chances of scoring with a girl even further away. Do you tell women you have been with prostitutes?

OP, do you want a sexual experience that you are going to be ashamed of & have to keep secret? Not even able to use your Boards ID to discuss for fear of recognition! Most girls consider any man that has to pay a woman to touch them as a sad case & a rather seedy. One night stands are one thing - at least the girl genuinely likes you & willingly wants to touch you & have you touch her. It's not a business arangement that due to your payment she has to touch you.

If, as you say, developing a relationship is the problem then I'd say working on your shyness & ability to talk to the opposite sex will stand you in much better stead than paying to go to Amsterdam & paying a woman to have sex with you. Maybe you just want to know what it's all about & genuinely have no hope of getting a woman to voluntarily have sex with you...in that case - go for it...your call.

Seraphina

Ickle Magoo wrote:

If the OP has to pay a woman to have sex with him then I don't see how this improves his chances of a woman wanting to have sex with him. The the two girls to comment on this thread agree that experience means nothing without technique & you don't learn that from an hours session with a prostitute...

If anything, the fact the lad has to pay to get a woman to have sex with him in the first place will reduce his self-esteem & make his chances of scoring with a girl even further away. Do you tell women you have been with prostitutes?

OP, do you want a sexual experience that you are going to be ashamed of & have to keep secret? Not even able to use your Boards ID to discuss for fear of recognition! Most girls consider any man that has to pay a woman to touch them as a sad case & a rather seedy. One night stands are one thing - at least the girl genuinely likes you & willingly wants to touch you & have you touch her. It's not a business arangement that due to your payment she has to touch you.

If, as you say, developing a relationship is the problem then I'd say working on your shyness & ability to talk to the opposite sex will stand you in much better stead than paying to go to Amsterdam & paying a woman to have sex with you. Maybe you just want to know what it's all about & genuinely have no hope of getting a woman to voluntarily have sex with you...in that case - go for it...your call.

yup, i'd agree. make sure you dont tell anyone, because if future possible girlfriends find out you paid a prossie in amsterdam to lose your virginity, most of them would probably be pretty disgusted. i know i would be, major turn off.

empirix

Seraphina wrote:

you sleep with alot of men then?
the men with experience usually *think* they're great... and are fairly wrong about it...

And how about you, what doyou "think'' about your good self in bed

LegacyUser

I was in the exact same position early this year. I was 24 years old and a virgin. Nobody knew I was a virgin, all my mates taught I wasn’t. It was embarrassing, very embarrassing. Seeing films like "the forty year old virgin" were NOT funny for me, it actually made me depressed. Im not ugly or anything it’s just I had no opportunities to meet women cause of the job I had. When my mates were all thinking about going on a trip to Amsterdam I decided to go along, absolutely dedicated to the mission of losing my virginity... some people think this is disgusting and vial but I was in a desperate situation.. Some people just don’t understand, they had sex lives and can not understand what I went through... don’t bother commenting bad things about me unless you were in the same situation.
So basically I went over and had sex 3 times with 3 different prostitutes. It wasn’t special, it wasn’t amazing, and it was just an experience to break the ice for me. My mates were all the same. At the time I was glad I had finally done it. I was sort of normal again, I was part of the human race, however I am now regretting it. My life has turned around and I have a lovely girlfriend now, and everything is great, we have a great sex life and its hunky dory. But I just can’t bring myself to telling her how I lost my virginity.. I make up stories of I lost it on a one night stand etc etc. The topic comes up every once and a while and it kills me, I just cant bring myself to telling her cause I think she'd be devastated and hurt?? If I knew back then what I know now I would have not gone. We all make mistakes in life and we all regret things we've done and this is a big one for me

LegacyUser

There seems to be a stigma around being a virgin. Not one of the twenty something year-old virgins who have posted so far (including myself) have done so under their boards name.

I'm a virgin and rightly or wrongly I see things everywhere that remind me of it - tv, soap operas, films, internet discussion boards (ahem). Its strange to thing that being a virgin is so funny that they could make an entire film about it! There could be some degree of oversensitivity on my part about it but I think the negative (loser) stereotype of being a virgin is backed up by the fact that all us virgins have gone anonymous.

Anyway to get a bit more on topic - call me old fashioned but I think sex should be an enjoyable shared activity between two people who enjoy each others company. So I'm trying hard to find that person and I'll wait until I do. (Obviously sooner would be much preferrable to later!!!) I hope that any girl who has the smallest ounce of a heart would not be put off by the thought of a nice guy not being a super-stud in bed because its his first time. I don't feel in a position to give too much advice to the OP but I'm throwing out my opinion and post just to let him know he's not on his own.

johnnysmurfman

Do it man. It's perfectly normal, just go to Amsterdam and get a prostitute and do it. That's my advice anyway and that's definitely what I'd do if I were you.

LegacyUser

The women in this thread and their fairy tale advice make me laugh. It's easy taking the moral high-ground on an issue like this when you're a woman, isn't it? Living every freaking day of your life, thoughts of inadequacy on such an issue practically nonexistant, your ego perfectly at ease, safely protected by the knowledge that you'll never have to spend a night alone in your entire lives if you so choose, knowing full well that you can have sex at any place, at any time (rounded to the very minute if you so choose), in the setting you prefer and with the partner of your choice. God damn it must be easy. No, not easy. Bliss. I don't even think there are enough words in the english language to accurately describe how ****ing delightful it must be.

Honestly, for a man like you to listen to the advice of a woman on such an issue is like a starving Nigerian listening to an upper class US citizen telling him to pass on whatever cheap food he is offered and wait for a juicy piece of filet mignon to come to him instead. Pure rubbish.

My advice to you is to go for it. I'm 19 years old, I get along well with most, I'm an athlete, I don't look or act like someone one would think would have a hard time getting some, yet until just a few months ago, I was a virgin. That is, until I did exactly what you plan on doing. And I certainly didn't regret it. I'd just spent a couple of absolutely miserable months, mostly secluded and heartbroken, and to top it all off, I still hadn't gotten around to having sex with someone. Life in general was going badly and I felt like ****. So I plopped down $200 and got it over with. Do I wish there could have been a better way? Of course I do. But I had reached a point where my situation was driving me so crazy that I was getting violent with those around me. I had to do something.

If you're anywhere close to reaching that level of anger/depression, do yourself a favor and do it. Hell, even if you aren't, at your age, I would recommend you do it regardless. It'll take the burden of virginity off your back, hopefully shed some light on the mystery that are women, thus helping you evade this vicious cycle you're trapped in. Ignore the idealistic garbage the fairy tale authors in this thread are spewing. None of them can even come close to understanding what it must be like being in your shoes, forced to wait for so long. I've been in your position, and to a certain degree, I still am.

Besides, whether it's drinks, dates, lame gifts or prostitutes, every man alive is "paying" for it one way or another anyway.

Motley Crue

Do you know, there was a time in my life when I was so sucidial over this issue, I almost destroyed myself in every way possible...and if I had actually went into town and committed myself to drinking in Fibbers every night im sure one of my mates would have set me up or nature would have taken its course whether i had wanted it to or not.

The truth of the matter is that if this is what it comes down to, I dont feel so bad about my situation, and im glad I was with someone I love. I taught I was the only one, but the way I see it we have more members then the Socialist movement!

If the OP and others on this thread who are virgins think that paying money to 'break the ice' to some Dutch girl is the right thing to do, good luck to them, they apparently (from this thread's experience) treat u very professionally.

I am however digusted in the guy who got laid on his stag night, does being engaged not mean something?

Ickle Magoo

kekekeke wrote:

It'll take the burden of virginity off your back, hopefully shed some light on the mystery that are women, thus helping you evade this vicious cycle you're trapped in. Ignore the idealistic garbage the fairy tale authors in this thread are spewing. None of them can even come close to understanding what it must be like being in your shoes, forced to wait for so long. I've been in your position, and to a certain degree, I still am.

So what you are saying is you did it & it solved nothing with regards to finding a relationship with a girl you didn't have to pay? How is that evading a vicious cycle or shedding light on the mystery that are women?