Young girl is Raped - what should happen to the rapist?

Mad Finn

This entire post is a red herring. How many young girls get dragged up a laneway and raped by people they don't know and who are so incompetent they get caught by the police very quickly?

Next to bugger all, that's how many.

Rape in reality is often quite a complex situation, often concerning people who are known to each other. Especially when it comes to child abuse.

Rape is the one crime that even the worst scrotes in society feel self righteous about. Rapists in prison have a very tough time from the righteously indignant burglars, armed robbers, muggers and bag snatchers. Nothing like asserting your moral superiority over a sex offender.

That's why it's so important to be absolutely sure about somebody's guilt before you convict them of rape. The scenario you described is horrendous but not at all typical of the crime of rape. It's designed to inflame one's anger with a scenario that just does not exist. It's like George Bush and Don Rumsfeld spouting on about weapons of mass destruction that do not exist and the Brits talking up 8-minute warnings that mean nothing at all.

Rape is a serious issue. Take it seriously. If you had what you thought was consensual sex with a young lady who regretted what she'd done when the drink wore off (could happen) and accused you of pushing your luck a bit too far, you would find that your treatment inside would be identical to a drooling pervert who snatched your little sister down a laneway.

Not nice at all.

Darragh29

iguana wrote:

I think I see where this post is coming from. I don't know if you worded it wrongly about being no different to any other physical assault or if you honestly believe that, but it is vastly different.

However I can't stand the attitude that being raped changes your life forever. It will only do that if you let it. It is a horrible crime and anyone found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt of having committed it should be looking at a minimum 15 years for the first offence and life, meaning life, for the second.

But being raped does not have to change your life. You can go back to being the person you were. You can continue to have normal sexual relationships. You can go through most of your life without even thinking about it. But so many people are of the attitude that it changes your life forever and that just makes it harder for victims to get over it.

I'm not saying that it doesn't come back to you at times throughout your life, and often when you least want it to. But it will only ruin your life if you let it.

Can I suggest that it depends very much on the person who is raped how she can deal with it??? This notion that "ah sure she'll eventually get over it!", I can't agree with at all.

abetarrush

Well, i'm always up for a bit of vengeance, but gotta disagree here

what if the victim finally started to recover from it after a year or 2. If you went after the rapist, and it was on the news, it'd throw her back into the part of her life shes tryin to recover from

And, what if you took it too far, or he killed YOU in self defence?

Just let it be

He's a cvnt, but I doubt revenge 'l do much in this case

A better thing wud be t kidnap him and have IM A DIRTY RAPIST tattooed all over his body

doubt he'd score much ever again

And of course, kick him in d bollix

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Something like this happened in the street i live in, a girl was molested, father beats the crap out of guy, father gets arrested!

garthv

Take the law into my own hands, geld the f*cker.
Id gladly do time for any c*nt that though he could touch my sister/daughter/girlfriend/friend/cousin

iguana

Darragh29 wrote:

Can I suggest that it depends very much on the person who is raped how she can deal with it??? This notion that "ah sure she'll eventually get over it!", I can't agree with at all.

Of course it does, but it also depends on the people around them. If everyone around you is of the attitude of "everything can be ok again, it will just take time and hard-work, how can I help" rather than "Oh no, her/his life is ruined for ever" then it becomes much more possible to get back to normal.

But unfortunately the, "their life is ruined forever" attitude is the more prevelant."

biko

I'd have a all female court deal with the rapist. I think they would be best suited to estimate the damage done.

Darragh29

iguana wrote:

Of course it does, but it also depends on the people around them. If everyone around you is of the attitude of "everything can be ok again, it will just take time and hard-work, how can I help" rather than "Oh no, her/his life is ruined for ever" then it becomes much more possible to get back to normal.

But unfortunately the, "their life is ruined forever attitude is the more prevelant."

Well I think the ability of someone to "deal with it", is really dictated by the quality and amount of professional counselling that a victim can access. I imagine this is where the real work is done, not talking about it across the kitchen table at home to someone. I think the effect of a rape must go on for a very long time, especially as I've said above because of things like STD's and stuff like that...

ambro25

The thing is that, politically speaking, 'personal revenge' against a rapist can never be condoned (by a pardon, a reprieve, a suspended sentence, etc... anything that might signal that it's okay to kill/maim/injure your kin's rapist), it has to issue from a system sanctioned by society.

But in jurisdictions governed by Case Law (such as Ireland, the UK and others), you only need the one lenient precedent, for Defense attorneys to try and map their clients' particulars to, since the 'tariff' for the crime is not codified (an extreme of such 'tariff' being death in Saudi, as previously posted). And sentences start a downward spiral from that.

So 'codification' ('tarification' if you will) might be a very apt way to solve the problem - binding upon Judges with no or very very little wiggle room and agreed upon by people-elected legislators so representative of society: 10 years no parole for an adult, 25 years no parole for a kid, life no parole for a repeat offender (these are my own approximation and opinion, feel free to disagree).

As for the hypothesis wherein the victim would be my kin, paradoxically and with the purest 'do as I tell, not as I do' hypocrisy, I'm afraid that I would find it impossible to suppress my genes (a goodly portion of which come from the south of an isalnd just off a famous geographical boot) and let the rapist and his family be dealt with solely by others. At one time or another, since I quite like mine cold and unexpected.

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote:

The key question is, can someone who rapes a child be rehabiliated back into society or is there something inherently evil about such a person that they are beyond rehabiliation??? This is only one part of the question though. Say it is possible to rehabiliate a child rapist so that they would not reoffend, would you be prepared to accept this person back into society??? Say you got a call to your door this morning, you open the door and there are two Gardai on your doorstep. They have come to tell you that a sex offender has just been released from prison and has moved in next door to you, but the assessment done on him prior to his release by experts indicates that he has been rehabiliated and is no longer a threat to children. What would you do???

As I asked this question, I may as well give my own answer. If this hypotethical situation with the two Gardai presented itself to me and I had kids, I'd call into my new neighbour and tell him he had 24 hours to move out of his house and out of the neighbourhood. I'd protect my kids from all threats, whether real or perceived. I wouldn't put much weight in assessments and professional reports when it would come to the safety of my kids. I don't think a child rapist is capable of rehabiliation.

Nevyn

Why assume that all victums of rape are female ? because they are not.

Darragh29

Thaedydal wrote:

Why assume that all victums of rape are female ? because they are not.

Strange that you should say this. I won't mention where or when, lets just say in Dublin in the 80's, but when I was in primary school, one teacher I had was sexually abusing many kids in the class, it was an all-boys school. Many of my friends at the time were sexually abused, the teacher is currently on remand in Arbour Hill awaiting trial, the case is coming to trial in the next year I think, apparently it will be up there with the Fr. Sean Fortune case, such as the amount of abuse that had occurred and all victims were male.

Snake Plisken

Well if anyone did that to my young daughters, they would die a slow and painful death! If I got caught I would plead insanity!

Snake!

Ponster

How about a mandatory jail term (15 years?) but could be reduced to 5 if you offered yourself up for physical castration ?

Or just physical castration them from the start. Some think it's cruel but in some states in the USA you get death for repeat rape offences.

If an Irish judge can lawfully make someone serve life imprisonment for rape then why aren't more people in prision? The judges fault or 'the system' ?

il gatto

I view it as probably the lowest crime, and little or anything above murder. If I found myself (and hopefully I never will) I would not wait to see what our "police" or "justice" system would make of it. If I knew, and I stress, knew, who did it, I would castrate them. No debate, no qualms. Somebody mentioned,that you might be killed if you attack the person? It's not a schoolyard fight for pride or bragging rights. Use whatever means necessary. I haven't been in a fight since I was in school. I'm not the sort of person to look for trouble or start rows. However, for somebody to impose themselves on someones life in that way is unacceptable, and no punishment is too much for them. We've all got d#cks (well, the guys do). We all get urges. That doesn't mean we'd ever commit such a crime. Someone who does is an animal. If I found myself in a position to punish someone for the crime mentioned by the OP, I honestly think one look into their souless, degenerate face, and I'd probably lose it and finish the job.
I'm not here to espouse what society should do. I have my own views on that. It's just a personal response to the question posed by the OP.

melekalikimaka

i have a close friend whom this happened to... i know the face of the kids who did it(was underage so still wandering the streets). If I ever see him i will break both his legs

Binomate

I used to have a stance on sex offenders and people suffering from pedophilia. I used to believe they just needed help and that it wasn't their fault because there was something wrong in their head which is partly true. But if World of Warcraft has taught me anything it's to say fuck the Carebear attitude. Execute them all, and that'll teach.

Mad Finn

biko wrote:

I'd have a all female court deal with the rapist. I think they would be best suited to estimate the damage done.

Then he'd probably get off.

Strange thing is, if you're a lawyer defending an alleged rapist, you want to pack the jury with as many women as possible. The reason being, they are more likely to disbelieve the female victim and seek to rationalise ways in which she might have brought her misfortune on herself. Especially as so few rapes meet the hypothetical case described by the OP.

Guys, on the other hand, come over all self righteous when confronted with an alleged rapist and tend to have the poor fecker hung before hte trial opens.

Curious, huh?

connundrum

r3nu4l wrote:

Are you doing anything connundrum? Anyone else here doing anything or am I the only one?

Sorry, I did actually speak of this in post #14. Anyhow, what I actually said was can this not be a point for people to vent... as in airlessly vent.

I know that the vast majority of people who may post might never do anything as constructive as write a letter to a local politician, but if it changes at least one opinion then it will have been a worthwhile excercise. No?

pbsuxok1znja4r

Would you sooner take revenge against someone that had raped your sister/whoever or had just straight up shot them dead?
Personally I'd go for the murderer first. Despite rape being more "heinous". What about ye?

stepbar

Id get a stanley blade and cut his "how do you do" off

projectmayhem

introduce him to a man who's nicknames include "tripod" or "anaconda"

Takeshi_Kovacs

Well i reckon the rapist should be neutered and locked away for a very long time..
If its going to reduce rape crimes, i dunno.. I don't know what goes through the mind of a person, just before they commit the act(preferably a bullet, but we must be civilised..). Are they so deranged, that they even think of or are worried by what punishment they would recieve (if caught at all).

Only few days ago, i heard on the local radio, about a foreign girl who was walking home from work, who was dragged into an alley by a fella. She was lucky*, though as two plain clothes gardai in the area saw what was going on, and went to her aid, they found her with her clothes torn, and would be rapist, with his zip opened.
It was obvious what his intentions were, but the courts punishment was that he pay 2000 euro to the victim. Surely there must be more severe penalties for this type of assault.
I know one has to tread carefully and make sure that the victim isn't making up the story and is trying to scrounge some money, but when you have two gardai as witnesses to the act, and for the attacker to get off so lightly, is just sad..... especially when you see decent people like the fellas above in Mayo who were sent to jail for a few months over the Corrib gas field fiasco....

exCrumlinBoyo

If some fcuker raped my sister/mum/wife/daughter I don’t think I could rely on the Courts to punish this person. As its said 5 years is bull****e and a serious slap in the face to the victim. I would seriously take things into my own hands. My initial reaction would be to grab this bastard and nail him to a wall, pour petrol on his dick and flick a match to the bollix… Seriously, I would have no problems in doing that to some little arse hole who thinks he can go and rape someone…

Off course that’s not the correct thing to do but when emoticons run high I am capable of anything, especially when it comes to children let along my own. I truly believe that rapists and child abusers are turned on by that kind of things. Its almost like their sexual orientation. In my opinion when someone abuses a trust like that, they should have their balls cut off and they wont do it again.

WhiteWashMan

from AH

Aoide

This was in Humanities a while ago with some interesting discussion. Not only did the neighbors not hurt him, they took him into their own homes and treated him as part of their family.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054960695

Zombrex

Ponster wrote:

How about a mandatory jail term (15 years?) but could be reduced to 5 if you offered yourself up for physical castration ?

That is a bit silly. Castration won't stop a rapest, it will only make them even more f**ked up and aggresive.

Ponster wrote:

If an Irish judge can lawfully make someone serve life imprisonment for rape then why aren't more people in prision? The judges fault or 'the system' ?

Considering rape can carry a life imprisionment sentence you do wonder about the logic going through the judges heads when they give out relatively short sentences (5 years), or reduce sentences by a lot (that taxi driver who got his sentence reduced from 21 to 15 years after raping 3 women).

The whole idea that you will get a reduced sentence if you plead guilty is very flawed as well. It allows criminals where it is blindingly obvious they will be found guilty to shave a few years off for nothing.

il gatto

Surely castration would make it likely they'd not reoffend sexually again? If nothing else, it's nearly a horrible enough thing to do to these scum as punishment. Nearly.

Nevyn

For many offenders rape is not about sexual gratifcation it is about power and assulating thier victums.
There have been offenders that could not get an errection to preform a rape and instead will use differing implements.

LadyJ

I can't possibly imagine how I would feel if something like that happened to someone close to me. However,I'm not the kind of person who thinks that justice can be done from any sort of impulsive,emotional reaction,such as chopping off someone's balls etc.

Sure,I might want to. I might think it would be better if the rapist was shot dead but if a calm version of myself could talk to a riled up version of myself then I hope it would be able to convince me that no real good could ever come of torturing a rapist.

My stance on rapist and their sentences is much the same as my stance on murderers and the death penalty. To anyone saying that prison is too cushy etc. you don't seem to understand the idea of prison at all.

Yes,they feed the prisoners and they might have tv etc. but they do not have their freedom. That is punishment enough. They are not their to be tortured or for revenge purposes. They are already being punished by living their lives in a cell.

Now,it does seem that the sentences rapists are getting are far too short,I agree but the point of prison is to rehabilitate the rapist. I do not know if this can be done successfully but a lot more psychological and biological research needs to be done on sex offenders,murderers etc.

As I said in the death penalty thread,maybe there is a genetic reason for rape and murder. Maybe there is not. But if enough research is done on issues like this then I think eventually we might be able to gain some insight into "what makes a rapist". It could be that it is something that starts at a young age. Lifestyle etc. The more we understand about it,the closer we will come to being able to prevent it,imo.

Btw,I'm in no way saying that I condone rape or anything,I just feel that harming a rapist or a murderer would be the wrong way to go about getting justice,which is what concerns me the most (not "getting my own back"),especially when we do not really know anything about what causes a human being to become a sex offender,murderer etc.