Ouija Boards (megathread)

Sapien

I can't think of many situations in which it makes sense to use a Ouija Board. If one can think of no more reliable and effective method for stirring up some spiritual activity, one probably isn't in a position to deal with the results, whatever they may be. The exceptions, of course, are those who have spent a lot of time using Ouija Boards, and have developed skill and experience - but once again that seems to me like misplaced effort. There are much better ways to contact spirits, especially if one is prepared to practice.

The Ouija Board (TM) is an auto-séance, which is to say, a séance sans medium. It was invented in the 1890s towards the end of a popular Spiritism craze. It was an ingenious idea. Séances were expensive and difficult to organise, and good mediums were few and far between. Demand greatly outstripped the supply. The Ouija Board was a way to bring quick-fix séances into the living rooms of ordinary people with negligible fuss or scandal, and for a reasonable one-time payment. The trouble is, they work.

In a séance the medium, if genuine, uses the heightened state of mind of the attendants to attract and draw out spirits. The medium's jobs are: 1) to manage the atmosphere of the sitting and direct the psychological state of the attendants; and 2) to receive messages in a coherent, comprehensible way. By this method a specific entity, or type of entity can be contacted, and its responses channelled through the medium. But the attendants themselves provide the "power", for want of a better word, which allows the contact to be made. When one removes the medium, as with a Ouija working, the medium's jobs are not done: 1) the atmosphere is uncontrolled and can become sinister and fearful; and 2) the means of communication for the spirit is largely up to the spirit's own determination.

With mediumship the aim, in most cases, is to contact deceased relatives. To this end the medium will engender an atmosphere of calm and warmth, love and recollection, and deep focus on the sought-after individuals. Very little can arise from this kind of collective mental state other than that which is intended. In a Ouija sitting there is rarely anyone who knows to, or is capable of manipulating the atmosphere. Inevitably people are afraid, excited, aroused and giddy. Inevitably the mental state is fuelled by adrenaline, hormones and cold sweat. This is the stuff of an altogether different type of contact.

Without the guiding influence of a medium, or one capable of controlling the spiritual environment, like an adept, the energy generated attracts anything that happens to be in proximity. Because of the nature of the ritual - frivolous and flippant as it so often is - the entities attracted will never be important, powerful or well-formed. You will not find an archangel, a god or even a famous demon paying attention to a Ouija sitting. Rather, random astral detritus will gravitate, subconscious complexes will be drawn forth - the kind of spiritual muck that one banishes at the beginning of every magickal working. And these things can be dangerous.

I am not one of those who say in doom-laden tones - Leave what you do not understand be! I understand all too well the attraction of such supernatural quick-fixes, the allure of tangible proof of the otherworldly that is so easily obtainable. In some senses I think people should investigate these avenues. But there are dangers inherent in the process, and someone with experience (though not necessarily an expert) should be present. That is to say someone with favourable experience - who is sufficiently confident to prevent the group from becoming hysterical and whipping up an unmanageable astral maelstrom.

In conclusion, I advise that people take the Ouija Board, as silly, inelegant and crass as it is, seriously. Under no circumstances should people undertake one to scare themselves, or as a kind of spiritual danger sport. If people are doing one for the first time, they should go about it seriously, slowly, cautiously and calmly. If an experienced person is unavailable, one of the participants should pick up some basic skills in banishing - the kind that can be found in the opening chapters in any widely available magickal syllabus text. And if things go wrong, don't bother with priests. Find a witch or a magickian.

Nevyn

Excellent post Sapien.

solas

IPI wrote:

The only professionals in spiritual and supernatural studies are entertainers, some mediums and our religious teachers. This doesn't make them experts, though, does it?

experienced yea, experts, I don't think so, makes them lot's of spondolicks tho.
I know of one professional (entertainer) who promotes use of the ouija, which tbh I find totally irresponsible.
I recall having a discussion in good company about it and figured that it would be no harm if they were to use some sort of subconscious parameters, such as angels. No sooner had I said "go patent that one" , Doreen virtue released the "Angel Guidance Board."

6th

i think Sapiens post would be a fitting end to this thread and a reference point for anyone beginning their journey in the paranormal. It sets out basic guidelines which go far past the use of the ouija board.

Looking back over threads from the last 2 years its a very common topic for newcomers.

If fact i'd go as far to say the post should be stickied and locked with a title like "Advice regarding Ouija Boards".

Anyone want to second my request?

Pink Bunny

I agree that Ouija boards are dangerous.

It's just my non expert opinion, but I've always likened the idea to walking down a dark alley alone at night. You try to avoid doing so to begin with, but if you find yourself there the last thing you want to do is draw attention to yourself by waving at the men in the shadows shouting "look at me, look at me!"

I don't really understand how it works, but I do believe it can act as an open invitation and those spirits that are predisposed to gravitate towards things like this are the very ones who's attention you are wise to avoid .

mysteria

The whole Psychic/paranormal field has become a Science (Parapsychology) and with recent findings in Germanys' top University it is now gaining wider acceptance and recognition. I am not on this board as an anonymous individual, my credentials are available for all to see ( do I really have to go through this one again?).While Derek Acorah claims to be a medium in fairness I have'nt heard him claim to be an expert in anything.
Ask any qualified person what they think of ouija boards, I was fascinated by them as a student and did very extensive research into the subject. So I'm just trying to help anyone who would like an "informed" opinion as a result of professional experience as both a Psychologist and a Parapsychologist. So 6th, having read other opinions about ouija on the boards, do you still feel it's right to promote the use of ouija boards with your magazine?
Blessed Be.
P.S. Excellent post as always, Sapien, and well said Stevenmu and Solas.
Blessed Be.

mysteria

6th wrote:

I think the answer to that question will be greatly affected by the answer to this question:
Has anyone ever used one who went into the experience with a positive frame of mind?

I cant imagine anyone in this day and age can go about using one without their head being filled with horror stories and the influeneces of Hollywood. How can anything positive or good come out when our minds are filled with negativity?

Statistically(approximately) about half those using the ouija are young, impressionable teenagers. The rest are people who genuinely want to contact a loved one, so they are vulnerable, going through the bereavement process.
And by the way are you telling us you've been studying and using the ouija board since you were 5 years old, 6th?( Re your 24 yrs experience):D

6th

Do i feel its right to promote the use of ouija boards? Yes.
They are a very accessible part of modern paranormal culture and for many they are the first (and in many cases last) step on an amzing journey into the world of the paranormal.

Is it wrong to promote cars? They are a tool which, if not used properly or by someone with experience, cause many many deaths every day.
Sapien got it so right when he said that whereas he wouldnt tell people absolutely not to use them they are a lazy quickfix. But in the right hands it is simply a tool, like a chainsaw, an axe or anything else it deserves respect and correct usage.

As i have stated in this thread i would not use one (a ouija board - not a car ) as i have put myself on a path which i know is a long and difficult one, i dont opt for the quickfix.

6th

mysteria wrote:

Statistically(approximately) about half those using the ouija are young, impressionable teenagers. The rest are people who genuinely want to contact a loved one, so they are vulnerable, going through the bereavement process.
And by the way are you telling us you've been studying and using the ouija board since you were 5 years old, 6th?( Re your 24 yrs experience):D

There is a thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054878476

to post research and i'd like to see this "recent findings in Germanys' top University it is now gaining wider acceptance and recognition" and also the statistics which you mention above?

6th wrote:

I have had experiences with spirits since i was 5, thats 24 years, so do i have any more right to tell someone what they should believe or do it make me an expert in spirits? No it doesn't! As i said I am an expert in my experiences.

No I said i have had experiences with spirits since I was 5 - would you like me to make the type bigger?

mysteria

Your post proves my point by the way, so why are you promoting the use of ouija boards? (google "telepathy, german university" sorry too busy working to nit-pick and do your research for you.

6th

Sounds like you want me to do your work and validate your claims.

I'd love to know what point i proved for you. Its nice someone is proving your points.

Ouija boards are potentially danger if not used correctly - as i said much like cars. How many people learned to drive by just getting behind the wheel in a car park?

New_Departure06

How can a ouija board be used safely?

6th

Read Sapiens post, that makes it all pretty clear. Read it careful mind

mysteria

6th wrote:

I think the answer to that question will be greatly affected by the answer to this question:
Has anyone ever used one who went into the experience with a positive frame of mind?

I cant imagine anyone in this day and age can go about using one without their head being filled with horror stories and the influeneces of Hollywood. How can anything positive or good come out when our minds are filled with negativity?

This proves My point !!! So when you're playing with words 6th you're revealing more of yourself than you realise....and yes maybe I'm arrogant, but I know my stuff.

New_Departure06

Maybe if mediums were cheaper ouija board problems would be rarer.

6th

mysteria wrote:

This proves My point !!! So when you're playing with words 6th you're revealing more of yourself than you realise....and yes maybe I'm arrogant, but I know my stuff.

Actually it doesnt prove your point. I posed a question, how can someone use a ouija board with all the negativity the surrounds it - Sapien answered the question. Preperation and practice is the answer.

And like i said we have to take your word with regards to what you know as fact but to a point i'm willing to do that. You are the Irish Psychic Queen after all but dont expect to be followed or agreed with blindly.

6th

New_Departure06 wrote:

Maybe if mediums were cheaper ouija board problems would be rarer.

Thats a bad attitude to have. I dont think people in gerenal turn to ouija boards over a medium because of money.

And the idea that psychic shouldnt charge for services coz its vulgar (as i have heard people say) is silly. If i could make a living out of doing something I love i would jump and the chance - that should affect peoples opinion of me.

New_Departure06

An Irish witch friend online has just given me some instructions on a safer use of a ouija board. She advises I don't use a board, but states that if I must, then:

A: Make your own ouija board on an A4 sheet of paper.
B: Draw the letters around in a circle. Write Yes and No inside the circle with Goodbye below them.
C: Have 4-6 candles and place them in the 4 corners of the room.
Remove the mirrors from the room and cover them in black cloth as they could be entry points for demons.
E: Have more than one person taking part, with the finger on the pointer at one time.
F: Place the tumbler (used as a pointer) in the center of the board.
G: Wear a blessed cross which has been blessed beforehand by dipping into holy water and saying a prayer for protection.
H: Place an item dear to the person you wish to contact in the middle of the board. Ask to speak to a particular person you used to know.
I: When finished and removing the tumbler, make sure to slide it onto a smooth surface like a coffee table. Don't simply lift it off the board.

6th

Well make sure you let us know how it goes. Seems like you went out and got advice from someone who knows - which is what the OP said you should do.

Do you have people to do it with you?

New_Departure06

6th wrote:

Well make sure you let us know how it goes. Seems like you went out and got advice from someone who knows - which is what the OP said you should do.

Do you have people to do it with you?

6th I don't intend doing it at the moment, but now I know and I hope this advice will help others. It was an online witch-friend who claims to have seen spirit worlds. I would probably select someone I know but might consider looking for a professional medium to help in future. I might be reluctant to put a relative or friend at risk (should it exist).

mysteria

New_Departure06 wrote:

6th I don't intend doing it at the moment, but now I know and I hope this advice will help others. It was an online witch-friend who claims to have seen spirit worlds. I would probably select someone I know but might consider looking for a professional medium to help in future. I might be reluctant to put a relative or friend at risk (should it exist).

I'm just wondering what degree your Wiccan friend is and from what background? Xtian Priests arent experts on Ouija boards or the Spirit world unless they have lots of experience with them, neither are Pagan Priests/Priestesses.

New_Departure06

mysteria wrote:

I'm just wondering what degree your Wiccan friend is and from what background? Xtian Priests arent experts on Ouija boards or the Spirit world unless they have lots of experience with them, neither are Pagan Priests/Priestesses.

Dunno about that but she seems experienced and to be a good witch.

Nevyn

mysteria wrote:

I'm just wondering what degree your Wiccan friend is and from what background? Xtian Priests arent experts on Ouija boards or the Spirit world unless they have lots of experience with them, neither are Pagan Priests/Priestesses.

All wiccans may be witches Mysteria but not all witches are wiccan or pagan for that matter.

New_Departure06 did you tell this person that you were going to but those guideslines up for anyone to read or use in such a public fashion so that anyone using google could find them ?

New_Departure06

Thaedydal wrote:

All wiccans may be witches Mysteria but not all witches are wiccan or pagan for that matter.

New_Departure06 did you tell this person that you were going to but those guideslines up for anyone to read or use in such a public fashion so that anyone using google could find them ?

No I didn't but I felt that since she told me how to do it safely that I had a moral responsibility to put the advice here if it could also protect others. On the pagan question she believes in one god but she also says there are demigods.

solas

mysteria wrote:

While Derek Acorah claims to be a medium in fairness I have'nt heard him claim to be an expert in anything.

He was a semi-pro footballer, I believe.

So 6th, having read other opinions about ouija on the boards, do you still feel it's right to promote the use of ouija boards with your magazine?

6th I wasn't aware you were writing about it for your magazine. If I were to, it would be an article highlighting the risks involved and I would consider the stories that have been shared. It's certainly something that requires an amount of respect, in the same way as the ocean or a wild animal does, and it would help if people did recognise this.
In my opinion, promoting the use of ouija under particular circumstances is akin to saying ecstacy isn't dangerous, as long as you drink plenty of water. (??)

It would be better if folk just stayed clear of it but people will be people and will always look for ways to gets kicks. I would offer a substitute in the way of the angel guidance board perhaps, certainly seems a whole lot safer and more practical.

[edit]that wasn't a volunteer for writing an article either, just my two cent.


[cont]I understand the mentality which considers fear to be the greatest danger and that once eliminated all will be well or that being experienced makes us infallible in some way. Look at the news today and you will see stories of journalists being killed in Iraq. These were people who were fearless in their work, respected the territory and had years of experience covering war zones.
Promoting the use of the ouija board is a great responsibilty and one which I personally, wouldn't undertake.

6th

Actually the article written for the magazine is not promoting the use of Ouija Boards it is a article about ouija boards from a neutral stance - we are all talking as on the basis that ouija's work and that spirits etc exist. And though that would be my stance on it too but for millions of people around the world these topics hold no importance and have no affect on their lives.

We must remember we art talking about an item which was marketed as a toy and is very possible used on a day to day basis in many parts of the world. This was a piece of paranormal history which managed to make it into the main stream and found its way into peoples homes. To ignore it and brush it under the carpet would do it no justice and just breath ignorance.

Also think about the fact that millions of these have been sold - if they really were as dangerous as people say surely they would be illegal?

I have also asked the OP as to whether angel boards and other talking boards are dangerous but got no reply. Ouija as i already mentioned is just a trademarked name for a toy yet it is Ouija which is still relatively new compared to talking boards that gets the bad press.

The fact there have been so many threads on them and the amount of interest this forum gets everytime the topic arises shows that people will ask about them whether there is an article in some little magazine or not - i'm putting information out there and letting people make up there own mind. Yet it seems there are people who think we should brush it aside and not speak of it - this reaks of an ignorance i didnt think existed on this forum.

solas

6th wrote:

Also think about the fact that millions of these have been sold - if they really were as dangerous as people say surely they would be illegal?

I'm trying to imagine convincing a judge why they might be considered dangerous.
Ouija was conceived as a toy but like many other "inventions" it was found to work in way's that weren't considered....like viagra. In the mainstream, once these products new uses are acknowledged, they become regulated and the useage for which they were originally intended becomes obsolete. As we're talking about something which is relative in terms of the intagible to most, how do we begin to discuss the effects of it's current use or how it could be adapted for better use? The angel guidance board is an attempt to do as much and in a way it removes the harmful element and adapts the "product" for a more pleasant experience.

Yet it seems there are people who think we should brush it aside and not speak of it - this reaks of an ignorance i didnt think existed on this forum.

in each and every thread wher uija has been discussed there have been informative and considerate responses.
The best thing to do in this situation 6th is for you to share from your own perspective or experience of it and go with that.

Zillah

Said Ouija article was written by yours truly. I didn't go to great lengths explaining the mortal dangers of it, no, but I did approach it from a neutral stance.

solas

haven't read it yet, so I can't comment. My initial response was to Mysterias post, which I figured was a general topic for discussion here at boards.

6th

solas wrote:

The angel guidance board is an attempt to do as much and in a way it removes the harmful element and adapts the "product" for a more pleasant experience.

What are these adaptions?

solas wrote:

in each and every thread wher uija has been discussed there have been informative and considerate responses.
The best thing to do in this situation 6th is for you to share from your own perspective or experience of it and go with that.

Giving information based on personal experience is great but seeing as every incident can be different and everyones experience slightly different should basic information not be given.

I'm currently reading a book on the history and culture of Voodoo, this is not for me to learn how to do it, i'm reading it to be informed on and interesting and often misunderstood subject. Similarily Ouija Boards, their history and their place in modern culture are very interesting and merits being written about. People must realise there are more views than just promoting or telling people to stay away from it.

6th

solas wrote:

haven't read it yet, so I can't comment. My initial response was to Mysterias post, which I figured was a general topic for discussion here at boards.

It seems mysteria post was directed at my magazine and the article and downloadable Ouija Graphic. I think i'm the "amateur" in question

solas

6th wrote:

What are these adaptions?

it's a subconscious thing.. I guess.
The fact that it's a guidance board and not a "talking to dead people board game" helps too. For people seeking answers to questions it acts as an oracle in much the same way as a dowsing pendulum, where the source of information is retrieved from levels of our own subconscious minds. It's got nothing to do with asking questions of the dead.

I'm currently reading a book on the history and culture of Voodoo, this is not for me to learn how to do it, i'm reading it to be informed on and interesting and often misunderstood subject. Similarily Ouija Boards, their history and their place in modern culture are very interesting and merits being written about. People must realise there are more views than just promoting or telling people to stay away from it.

this is all good and well and for those interested in the history of object d'art I'm sure it's intriguing, try to remember tho the point was made here at this forum for general discussion, whether mysteria was indirectly referencing your magazine at this point is irrelevant. You have an option to listen to both sides of the story. There is no right or wrong answer here, just opinions.

6th

I fully agree its all opinions and my whole point is that no one opinion is right. With regards to the angel boards i know people who use them and dont belive they are just accessing their subconcious.

So from what you say it isnt the Ouija Board that is dangerous but the intention with which one appraoches it? That would be my belive and why i would only ever use a ouija board with 2 people i would feel absolutely comfortable with who go in with an open and mind and a good grip on their baggage.

6th

Can i just say i am not saying ouija boards are not dangerous, i seem to be getting the impression that people think i am telling eveyone to go out and use them.

I'm just saying peple should have access to the information and make up their own minds.

solas

6th wrote:

With regards to the angel boards i know people who use them and dont belive they are just accessing their subconcious.

some people don't know the difference. Either way, there is a safety measure there on a subconscious level. It's fair to say that people who have experienced loss are more given to contact with loved ones..and that is what angels are symbolic of, a divine love close to God. So on a subconscious level that's the guidance employed with the nature of the board.

Ouija boards doesn't have the same parametres, who are you asking a yes or no question of?
Is it the difference between walking around on the ground in Iraq and walking around in the safety of a eh..church, lets say. (church's may not be the safest place for young kids either )

That would be my belive and why i would only ever use a ouija board with 2 people i would feel absolutely comfortable with who go in with an open and mind and a good grip on their baggage.

Go for it 6th, as long as your wearing flak jackets I guess, then when you write about these things at least you're writing from experience.

Mediums don't need tools to contact loved ones and any who do, in my mind are no mediums at all.

I'm just saying peple should have access to the information and make up their own minds.

maybe you should just have linked to the article.

[edit]for what it's worth, I don't use any of these tools.

6th

It must be reminded that the OP brought up two distinct subjects:

1) The Dangers of Ouija Boards

2) The danger of seeking advice from amateurs as opposed to experts


With regards to OUija Boards I will make one final summary of my opinion:
I believe ouija boards are potentially very dangerous when used by people with no respect for it as a tool or spirits and energies in general. I also believe it has the potential of being a interesting tool in used correctly but in the end it is a quickfix.

With regards to the amateur/professional/expert side of things I will not just except the beliefs and opinions of one "expert" above an those amateur in a field which has yet to be explained.

6th

solas wrote:

Mediums don't need tools to contact loved ones and any who do, in my mind are no mediums at all.

Tools can be merely a focal point to aid concentration. Candles could been seen as tools when used for meditation? I dont think they should rely too heavily on tools but to say they are not genuine if they use them is rubbish.

solas

I'm not sure I consider a candle as a tool in the same sense, it's an aid like a lightbulb, used to assist the environment, (they help us see in the dark) or as used during meditation aids the atmosphere, in a similar fashion.
Mediums don't need tools like the ouija board to contact spirit, that's why they are called mediums. in the case of ouija boards, the board is the medium.
Folk who do recieve communications as mediums will usually explain that they don't go looking for spirit, it's spirit who come to them. or so I'm told.

6th

solas wrote:

I'm not sure I consider a candle as a tool in the same sense, it's an aid like a lightbulb, used to assist the environment, or which when used during meditation aids the atmosphere.
Mediums don't need tools like the ouija board to contact spirit, that's why they are called mediums. in the case of ouija boards, the board is the medium.
Folk who do recieve communicationsas mediums will usually explain that they don't go looking for spirit, it's spirit who come looking for them. or so I'm told.

Tools, in my opinion, are anything you use to aid in achieving the desired goal.
As for spirits coming looking for mediums thats true in my experience. I dont believe there is a medium in the world who can call a specific spirit at will.

solas

With regard to the OP, I think discussing the dangers of ouija boards is fair enough, as for amatuers and experts..well, maybe Mysteria has experience in dealing with these kind of things and is speaking from her own experience.

solas

6th wrote:

As for spirits coming looking for mediums thats true in my experience. I dont believe there is a medium in the world who can call a specific spirit at will.

then what's the point in ouija boards?

6th

solas wrote:

then what's the point in ouija boards?

I dont think there is a point. As i said they are a quick fix, they make contact with random energies at best but for someone who just wants to expereince something paranrmal i'm sure they hit the spot.

I have no idea of what they can ideal achieve as i said i choose not to use one.

Do i think a desperate and grieving person should use them? No.

solas

well..I'm glad all the desperate greiving people out there have 6th to guide them in their ventures.

go meditate man

6th

solas wrote:

well..I'm glad all the desperate greiving people out there have 6th to guide them in their ventures.

go meditate man

hey whats with the attitude? I made no comments to warrent that. Did i say people should come to me? No i just underlined the fact that people in a delicate frame of mind shouldnt use them.

solas

I didn't bring the attitude 6th, I understand you feel you have to defend your position or stance in your article from your magazine. Had I known this thread was about as much I wouldn't have bothered participating. you have my opinion on the subject, the rest is none of my business.

6th

I just suggested the thread was aimed at my mag, if it was then this is not the place for it and the OP should have come to me with any problem they had with it.

You seem to have a problem with the fact that this could be some sort of conflict between two posters and if it is you are dead right. I dont like the fact that this could have been a shy dig at me but it did bring up an interesting debate.

I hope this hasnt influenced you opinion of me but try ignore the possible reasons for this thread coming about and threat it as the debate it has become.

For the cord as Zillah saif he wrote the article not me. I dont feel i have to defend anything. I've only stated my opinions on here are i am free to do. The article has fuck all to do with this thread especially seeing as it has only been read by 2 people from here.

solas

6th wrote:

I dont like the fact that this could have been a shy dig at me but it did bring up an interesting debate.

it's something I'm only too familiar with from other forums of the same nature, which is why I don't want to get involved.

I hope this hasnt influenced you opinion of me but try ignore the possible reasons for this thread coming about and threat it as the debate it has become.

I dunno about you but I'm going to have a cup of tea, and an early night (maybe a little meditation) and let it go.

6th

solas wrote:

well..I'm glad all the desperate greiving people out there have 6th to guide them in their ventures.

go meditate man

I'd let it go if it wasnt for the above dig. I've never been up my own arse or made claims of superiority and yet you paint me as someone who sees themselve as a saviour? Not on especially seeing as the whole thread started with a dig at me.

Enjoy your cuppa though

solas

like I said, keep this between you and mysteria.

[edit]I'm out of this one

mysteria

I presume your doctor, dentist etc has qualifications, experience, and a repected reputation for knowing their field 6th? I wrote a book, a best seller worldwide, 10 yrs ago on the subject and I've had to work with hundreds of people traumatized but using Ouija, I've used it myself as a student, and have never, ever heard of any benefit from using it. The majority of people who used it were frightened, but quite a few ended up with psychaitrists who then sent them back to me to try and help. A friend's brother threw himself into Killiney Bay he was so scared by the "spirits and demons" he believed had followed him home. He's dead of course, and while I can see the point that objects don't have any inherent power in themselves, I've seen nothing good ever to come out of a ouija experience. So relax 6th, I don't recommend smoking either, don't take things so personally, anddon't overanalyze everything we say, it's not good for your head lad!

6th

mysteria wrote:

I presume your doctor, dentist etc has qualifications, experience, and a repected reputation for knowing their field 6th? Don't overanalyze everything I say, it's not good for your head lad!

Yes they do but what has that got to do with anything? It doesnt make them infalable (spelling?). Boards.ie doesnt have a medical forum coz it would be a bad idea to give out advice on such matters, maybe you can take it up with the admin to haver this forum removed.

Funny you didnt have a problem with me until I made a comment about your tours?

If you want to say something strap on a set of balls and say it.