First Time Drivers Guide

Crapbag

Hi,

Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere but i couldnt find it. I was looking for info on some of the following:

What would be a good first time car? (for either male or female)
What insurance companies are suitable for first timers?
What driving schools are found to be the most comprehensive?
Any other hints and tips for first time drivers

I know this can be quite a broad topic so if you have some useful information, throw your hat in the ring but try keep hearsay and rumour out of the thread.

cormie

Car - 1lite - Ford Fiesta, Nissan Micra, VW Polo, Opel Corsa are the top picks

Insurance - Start with Quinn Direct, pay monthly, when you get experience, do the provisional ignition with Hibernian and go with a broker of theirs like brittoninsurance.com or tesco.ie, this will cost you €70 and if you pass, which you should if you have the experience, you can cancel your Quinn Direct Policy and start a new one with the broker and it will be much cheaper.

Driving Schools - I'll teach you. €30 per hour, €250 for 10 hours.

Hints and tips - Hang out in this forum, ask as many questions as you can and read posts regarding rules of the roads, situational questions etc. Learn the right way, don't get into bad habbits. Drive safely and always check your blind spot!

Crapbag

Thanks for that

Are you a registered instructor? If so what company do you work for and what is your area? (Just inquiries, not inquisition)

I relation to the test, what would you feel requires the most practice?
Hill start?
3 point turn?
Reversing around a corner?
other

Do you recommend a petrol or diesel engine car given that diesels are traditionally hard to stall and would help build your confidence?

cormie

No I'm not a DIR registered instructor yet;) I'm just trying to start off, I've taught a few friends and have done advanced driving courses. I'm not set up yet or anything either. I'm based in Bray. It's just a recent idea I had:)

With regards hill starts etc. I think the hill start is one of the most important things for starting to learn how to drive. Clutch control is what people have the most difficult with starting off, Once you master the hill start, you're pretty much good to go. Stalling the car puts great pressure under a learner driver and can cause loss of concentration in other areas.

Again, both 3 point turns and reversing around a corner require good clutch control and will be much easier if you are comfortable using the cluthch. They will test all 3 so they are all of equal importance for the actual test itself.

I wouldn't choose diesel over petrol just because of the stalling issue, it depends on how you will be driving, what conditions, speed limits and mileage.

I also think overall, it is better if it is easier to stall the car. This will ensure you will aquire the best possible control of it. For example, if you can get away without stalling in a diesel, where you would in a petrol, you may think it's ok but it is best to just do it the right way, where you would get away with it in both cars.

netwhizkid

cormie wrote:

No I'm not a DIR registered instructor yet;) I'm just trying to start off, I've taught a few friends and have done advanced driving courses. I'm not set up yet or anything either. I'm based in Bray. It's just a recent idea I had:)

With regards hill starts etc. I think the hill start is one of the most important things for starting to learn how to drive. Clutch control is what people have the most difficult with starting off, Once you master the hill start, you're pretty much good to go. Stalling the car puts great pressure under a learner driver and can cause loss of concentration in other areas.

Again, both 3 point turns and reversing around a corner require good clutch control and will be much easier if you are comfortable using the clutch. They will test all 3 so they are all of equal importance for the actual test itself.

I wouldn't choose diesel over petrol just because of the stalling issue, it depends on how you will be driving, what conditions, speed limits and mileage.

I also think overall, it is better if it is easier to stall the car. This will ensure you will aquire the best possible control of it. For example, if you can get away without stalling in a diesel, where you would in a petrol, you may think it's ok but it is best to just do it the right way, where you would get away with it in both cars.

Great advice there for anybody starting off, another golden rule I would give you is under no circumstances take any lessons or advice from your parents as they will screw you up, as mine did to me when I went down the Manual road last year.

I was insured for a month on a Toyota (before I got my own car) I found clutch control to be my achilles heel and couldn't change down gears right, (funnily changing up was okay for me) anyway my confidence was blown and having your parents shouting at you etc. doesn't help. Now one year later I have myself a BMW 316 Automatic and would never again sit behind the wheel of a manual because of my horrid experiences of them. They really are a stupid system and as much as I would like to be able to drive one it is one thing I abandoned in life.

Basically don't let your parents have anything to do with your driving except maybe pay for it (assuming you are a teenage first time driver)

Manuals suck tbh.

knifey_spoonie

Ive only started driving within the last month, ive had 6 lessons and what has really given me confidence is getting some practice outside lessons, it really helps, Clutch control is key, before i even got lessons i got my clutching right you really should be able to get your car moving using just your clutch and no gas this is something ive managed to while in 5th gear and my town driving has just improved

It also help with the reversing around a corner

Crapbag

I found clutch control difficult but the car i was in had clutch trouble especially in second gear. I have to say that learning is down mostly to muscle memory. Practicing take offs repeatly is great. I went on to hill starts but i have to say that if you're learning in a car with a crappy clutch, it does nothing but frustrate you.

Would anyone recommend models to avoid as a first timer? (appart from large CC)
Snags they encountered as 1st timers?
Garages and breakdown services that didnt rip you off?

chrislad

I completely agree with the whole not letting your parents teach you. I had 9 lessons with a driving instructor before I went into the car with him. Granted, I wasn't great, but I swear, he nearly started me crying with the shouting and the like. He's been very good lately, and he's taken me out a good bit to get some practice, but I'd prefer to stick with my instructor and my uncle until I get my full license.

whassupp2

I've the test in a couple of weeks.

One question that my instructor was unsure of:

Before reversing around the bend, is it acceptable to turn the side mirrors downwards so that you can have a clear view of the curb which you are about to reverse around???? (and then change them upwards again afterwards??)

DrivingInfo

whassupp2 wrote:

I've the test in a couple of weeks.

One question that my instructor was unsure of:

Before reversing around the bend, is it acceptable to turn the side mirrors downwards so that you can have a clear view of the curb which you are about to reverse around???? (and then change them upwards again afterwards??)

Yes this is ok just dont forget to put it back

By right you should not have to do this, set the mirror the right way because if you have it down you may not see something behind you

whassupp2

Thanks

DrivingInfo

I designed the DrivingInfo website to help people with driving and driving information. So there is help out there.

cormie

I agree that time alone in the car when learning to drive is of great help to learning. I'm even thinking, if I do get going with giving lessons, what I might do is bring the learner to a private property with a hill for the first hour, when the hour is up, I'll leave them there and come back 2/3 hours later and have another hour with them. They pay for 2 hours but get 3 hours in between of greatly beneficial time trying themselves.

RE: reversing around the corner. Yeah, you shouldn't need to adjust the mirrors at all, and to be honest, I can't imagine any tester looking too kindly on that. If you need to do this in a real life situation, you may not have the time to go adjusting your mirrors. It's not about reversing around a corner (how often do you do that?), it's about reversing accuracy and safety. Best thing to do is find a point on the window and line up the point with the kerb from your viewpoint when you know the point is accurate as to proximity of the kerb (get the instructor to tell you how close you are to the kerb before you pick your point)

Crapbag

Ill agree with you all on the parents thing. My Dad is a mechanic, he raced for 15 years and qualified as a driving tester but didnt take the job. It was down to instructor training. He simply didnt have the patience for mistakes, so avoid parents. He was trying to teach me the swedish rally trick of left foot breaking on my second lesson.

Any tips on observation since its what fails alot of people?

cormie

Just always be alert, check everywhere, look ahead of you and not so much at the car in front. If you're keeping proper distance between you and the car in front, it will allow greater observation in other areas and anticipation of what the car in front may be about to do. Do not keep your focus on one thing, allow your eyes to scan everything, they will pick up on anything that may be a hazard and you can then focus and determine your course of action to be taken. This included your rear view mirror and occasional wing mirror checks too where necessary.

Make sure you are not driving too fast for anticipation (around corners etc), take every corner as if there may be a cyclist/hazard there as the one time you don't take this caution, could be a fatal outcome.

Don't get involved in heavy conversation, have music too loud or talk on your phone.

Keep your eyes open and don't drive tired or of course, under the influence of heavy medication, alcohol or drugs.

bullrunner

does anybody have (or know where to get) a comprehensive list of what will be examined (or what they look to examine) in the driving test (espec the under the bonnet stuff)?

thanks

J_R

Hi,


Crapbag Wrote

I relation to the test, what would you feel requires the most practice?
Hill start?
3 point turn?
Reversing around a corner?
other

Reversing around a corner, for example only takes 2% to 3% of the driving test time. Granted if you can not reverse you fail, but I have seen people practice hour after hour. Also some Driving instructors spend an inordinate amount of time on this manoeuvre. Very wasteful.

In actual fact it is not "Reversing around a corner" You are asked to reverse into the road keeping reasonably close to the kerb. They want to see, are you capable of reversing into a limited opening, keeping good overall observation while doing so.

Likewise the other two manoeuvers If you have clutch control the hill start should be no problem whatsoever. The 3 point turn (also misnamed - proper term "Turnabout") is a simple car control test, again clutch control and observation.

Spend your major time driving, learn how to deal with all type of junctions and situations. That is, after you have mastered clutch control. But if you had a car with a proper clutch you should learn how to control the car with the clutch in a few minutes. And you do of course only use clutch control in 1st or reverse gear. You mentioned something aobut 2nd gear. ??

knife_fighter Wrote

ive managed to while in 5th gear

Was this by accident. ?? Not recommended moving off (or practising moving off) in anything but 1st or reverse gear. Very severe on the clutch. (Moving off down a hill, OK you can use higher gears)

cormie wrote

if I do get going with giving lessons

OK, nothing personal you may make a fantastic instructor. And the best of luck. Unfortunately in Ireland anybody can do similiar. Simply call themselves instructors and away.

In the UK of the 100 people who start training to become instructors only 10 pass the final exam and become ADI's. 90 fail and drop out.

If those figures were transposed to Ireland 90% should not be instructing. However all who decide to become "Instructors", do so. No fails, no drop outs 100% pass rate. Majority do no training whatsoever of these, some are quite good from the start, good drivers and a natural ability to pass on their knowledge. Others study why their pupils failed (or passed) the test. These become quite good, but they have learned at their pupils expense. However quite a few believe they already know it all. They never learn and continue teaching their own unique interpretation of the Rules and misconceptions on how to drive. And blame the testers when their pupils fail.

Poor workman blames his tools. Poor driving instructors blame the test examiner.

So in choosing an instructor, any instructor who says so and so examiner never passes anyone first time, they all work to a quota etc etc - keep clear.

Bullrunner
Actual Questions Asked and

List of Questions

Safe motoring

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote:

Hi,


Crapbag Wrote


Reversing around a corner, for example only takes 2% to 3% of the driving test time. Granted if you can not reverse you fail, but I have seen people practice hour after hour. Also some Driving instructors spend an inordinate amount of time on this manoeuvre. Very wasteful.

In actual fact it is not "Reversing around a corner" You are asked to reverse into the road keeping reasonably close to the kerb. They want to see, are you capable of reversing into a limited opening, keeping good overall observation while doing so.

Likewise the other two manoeuvers If you have clutch control the hill start should be no problem whatsoever. The 3 point turn (also misnamed - proper term "Turnabout") is a simple car control test, again clutch control and observation.

Spend your major time driving, learn how to deal with all type of junctions and situations. That is, after you have mastered clutch control. But if you had a car with a proper clutch you should learn how to control the car with the clutch in a few minutes. And you do of course only use clutch control in 1st or reverse gear. You mentioned something aobut 2nd gear. ??

knife_fighter Wrote

Was this by accident. ?? Not recommended moving off (or practising moving off) in anything but 1st or reverse gear. Very severe on the clutch. (Moving off down a hill, OK you can use higher gears)

cormie wrote

OK, nothing personal you may make a fantastic instructor. And the best of luck. Unfortunately in Ireland anybody can do similiar. Simply call themselves instructors and away.

In the UK of the 100 people who start training to become instructors only 10 pass the final exam and become ADI's. 90 fail and drop out.

If those figures were transposed to Ireland 90% should not be instructing. However all who decide to become "Instructors", do so. No fails, no drop outs 100% pass rate. Majority do no training whatsoever of these, some are quite good from the start, good drivers and a natural ability to pass on their knowledge. Others study why their pupils failed (or passed) the test. These become quite good, but they have learned at their pupils expense. However quite a few believe they already know it all. They never learn and continue teaching their own unique interpretation of the Rules and misconceptions on how to drive. And blame the testers when their pupils fail.

Poor workman blames his tools. Poor driving instructors blame the test examiner.

So in choosing an instructor, any instructor who says so and so examiner never passes anyone first time, they all work to a quota etc etc - keep clear.

Bullrunner
Actual Questions Asked and

List of Questions

Safe motoring

HI J_R

if you are a driving instructor you should offer to teach this person as what you said is very true and we see this every day.

sullivk

Got my first car - 1.3L Toyota Starlet. Haven't tried it out yet but my sister learnt in it and she said its brilliant.

Im a 19 year old girl, first provisional licence, no driving experience whatsoever. For TPFT Britton Insurance quoted me 1212 euro, whereas quinn direct quoted me 1768 euro for.

Had my first driving lesson with the Irish School of Motoring about an hour ago, went well I think, just taught me basic taking off, stopping and steering. Lessons are 35 euro for an hour.
(I'm still a nervous wreck though!)

mloc123

netwhizkid wrote:

Now one year later I have myself a BMW 316 Automatic and would never again sit behind the wheel of a manual because of my horrid experiences of them. They really are a stupid system and as much as I would like to be able to drive one it is one thing I abandoned in life.

Manuals suck tbh.

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

cantdecide

i haven't even read the whole thread but i a make a point of trying to educate first time drivers about the reality of running off to buy a micra/ fiesta/ polo.
don't do it- they aren't real cars, they're small, uncomfortable, hard to drive and over-rated trolleys. 1.4 cars like astra/ civic/ golf (or bigger) are the business and despite what your gran says, difference in running costs are negligable. don't fall afoul of the oldest motoring cliche. don't buy a car for a learner, buy a car for a driver.

Stark

Depends where you're driving. If you're driving somewhere like Cork City or many other towns in Ireland, the smaller the better to squeeze down narrow streets between parked cars. If you're driving in Dublin, then bigger is better for holding your own on the road and having that bit of power on motorways.

Also 1.0L vs 1.4L can make a big difference to a young driver's insurance.

Initial car cost would be a big thing for a first time driver as well.

Capt'n Midnight

you don't need a new car to learn in, you don't get so worried about scratching an older car.

for reversing you want to be able to see out the back window , some cars are a bit high at the back

netwhizkid

mloc123 wrote:

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

That is typical of the cynical comments I have got everywhere from people upon hearing my decision to go Auto only. I guess 200Million+ North Americans shouldn't be allowed on the road either so? A lot of people in Ireland are now choosing Auto too, especially in City areas where traffic is kat.

mloc123

netwhizkid wrote:

That is typical of the cynical comments I have got everywhere from people upon hearing my decision to go Auto only. I guess 200Million+ North Americans shouldn't be allowed on the road either so? A lot of people in Ireland are now choosing Auto too, especially in City areas where traffic is kat.

Fair enough if you can drive a manual and think auto is better but if you can't even learn to drive a manual you are in trouble, its not like its the hardest thing in the world.

Stark

What a rediculous statement to make. I can barely kick a football, doesn't matter when I'm in a car though. Why should not being able to operate a manual affect someone driving an automatic? They recommend to people learning to drive in America that they be proficient in handling traffic situations in an automatic before trying to progress to manual transmission.

There are plenty of drivers out there who are well able to operate a manual gearbox but barely aware that there are other drivers on the road. It's a tiny part of the driving equation. You can't make a blatant leap of logic and say that someone who doesn't know a manual gearbox shouldnt' be on the road. Like netwhizzkid said, if you apply that logic, then most people in the USA should be off the road.

Now excuse me while I go shower after taking sides with our resident troll.

Creamy Goodness

cormie wrote:

what I might do is bring the learner to a private property with a hill for the first hour, when the hour is up, I'll leave them there and come back 2/3 hours later and have another hour with them. They pay for 2 hours but get 3 hours in between of greatly beneficial time trying themselves.

presentation college bray has a good hill for learning hill starts, tis where i done mine.

mloc123

Stark wrote:

Now excuse me while I go shower after taking sides with our resident troll.

I'm a resident troll?

Edit: just read it properly, nevermind.

ninty9er

One of my best friends got the bad habit of trying his first "car park stint" in his dad's auto box S350.

I put him in the corsa in a deserted car park and he was gutted that you "have to press the clutch FULLY...EVERY time you change gears"... Needless to say he didn't stay in the driver's seat too long. the crunching was painful.


Some people should just learn AUTO and STAY auto. His parents can drive both but choose to have auto, his mom is changing soon and going auto too. She wants him to learn manual , but I can't see it happening when there'll be a clk in the driveway to play with

cormie

Cremo wrote:

presentation college bray has a good hill for learning hill starts, tis where i done mine.

I've taken people there when teaching them for that hill:)

antodeco

Easy. I recommend:

Nissan Micra 998 cc try and get a 98 - 01 version. Best built and hold thier value really well.
Depending on what insurance company Id recommend, varies depending on your age and sex.
If you have jsut started driving, apply for your test now. It will take around a year to come around, and by then you will be flying (driving!)!

Hope that helps

smemon

i own a manual car, and am able to drive it

however, i've driven auto's and if i hd the cash, i'd take one any day over a manual. i'd say at least 40% of my time is spent crawling along or in traffic and that requires some degree of concentration (changing up to 2nd, back down again, handbrake, neutral, give foot a rest, get bite/balance accelerator, move off....repeat procedure 5 times before you get through traffic lights.) in an automatic you can just relax and sit back and enjoy the music or whatever...

also, i believe auto's are safer, especially for learners. You can't really roll back on a hill, you can't grind the gears or damage any part of the engine/transmission but most importantly, you can't stall.

i think everyone should learn in an auto before going on to a manual as it is being thrown in at the deep end.

if you can handle it, then all well and good but most people imo, can't grasp all aspects of a manual for at least a month.

Pipp

mloc123 wrote:

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

Apologies if this is off topic to the thread but I think this point should be made.

Your opinion that anyone that cant manage a manual transmission should be off the road is somewhat blinkered as you dont seem to realise that there are a variety of reasons that people drive automatic cars including personal choice/preference.
Also, there are medical reasons to drive an automatic. Disabled people drive adapted cars which might be automatic, or have no pedals at all. Does this mean that they should be off the road?
In my opinion they are just as entitled to be on the road as you or I, and as long as the car that they are driving is safe, and designed specifically for their needs, and adapted accordingly then who are you to say that they shouldnt be on the road. These people cant manage a manual transmission car.
My personal opinion about manual cars is that they are tricky to drive and it takes time to build up the skill of manipulating the clutch and gears correctly and I can understand why some people would have difficulty with this task. An automatic car simply takes this out of the equation and makes driving much easier.
I drive a manual car, but I have decided in the future that I might try an automatic car to see if I like it, and if I do, then I will make the change.
I suppose my main point is that on the road its impossible to tell which car is automatic and which is manual unless you watch the driver's movements and listen to the engine working. Theres no "bite" in a automatic, however you can hear the gearbox shift up and down the gears when the vehicle is in motion.
Surely its a personal choice as to which type of car you drive?

Crapbag

Lets not turn another thread into another pointless bitching session. Your opinions on peoples driving ability dont have any place here. If you have some advice for first time drivers thats fine but dont force other people looking for information to read through yet another thread filled with rubbish. This is aimed at no one in particular, please, lets just keep the thread for information purposes. We've had some good information so far, keep it coming

ninty9er

Is there not something to do with engine speed and downshifting that makes it slower to stop an automatic. (i.e more dangerous for a learner)

(i.e. the driver can't pull back the car with gear control...my instructor told me this and i'm fairly sure there's something about it in the DTT CD-ROM)

mloc123

ninty9er wrote:

Is there not something to do with engine speed and downshifting that makes it slower to stop an automatic. (i.e more dangerous for a learner)

(i.e. the driver can't pull back the car with gear control...my instructor told me this and i'm fairly sure there's something about it in the DTT CD-ROM)

thats certainly one reason that automatics go through brake pads alot quicker than manuals

Mitch Connor

Can anyone give me tips on clutch control - i find it a nightmare.

Starting off i am grand, and i can do hill starts no problem now (thanks to people parkign right up my backside on hills!! WHY DO THIS TO A LEARNER DRIVER!!??)

However, i simply can not get the hang of it when alrady moving, in traffic for instance. At the moment, if a have to stop on any sort of incline, i have to pull the handbrake up, which is a pain to do if you only want to stop for a split second. I know it is possible to put the car into first, and then to keep the car in position with the clutch and the accelerator, but i have a horrible time trying to find that point - and if i don't find it i start to roll back and panic and things get nasty for a few seconds!

cormie

When changing up gears, accellerate while changing to meet the flow up the higher gear, when changing down, do the opposite (break).

If you're in slow moving traffic on a hill going up, just stay in first gear unless it's really necessary to go into second. It's ok to go from 2nd to first if you need to, other wise, going so slow in 2nd, you'll just stall the car or find yourself riding the clutch. Always leave sufficient room between you and the car in front, this will allow greater reaction times. As I've said before, look ahead aswell so you can anticipate whether the traffic is going to stop or not.

The correct and safest way to break is from a moving state, to break slowly, from a far distant to allow a slow and safe approach to traffic lights. Breaking early also informs other drivers that they too should prepare to stop. It's generally best to stop in 3rd gear or below, if you are going this slow enough to be about to stop in 4th, it means you wont be able to take off quickly if a hazard occurs. So if you are in 5th gear, breaking, go from 5th, to 4th when the speed is right and then 4th to 3rd. If you know the lights are going to change before you stop, you may want to go to 2nd too. If not, it's ok to stay in 3rd and when close to your stopping point, use the clutch and then apply the final pressure to break smoothly.

The second the car is steady, apply the handbreak. Every time the car is steady you should apply the handbreak, regardless of hills or anything like that, it's safest and best for your car to apply to handbreak every time you stop. Pull up the handbreak by pushing in the button and when it is near the top, release the button and let it click into place. This again, is best for your car, pretty much everyone just uses the button to put it down, but all those clicks you hear when pulling it up, are un-necessary wear on the handbreak. I used to do it until I was told at the advanced driving course not to, takes about 4 days to get used to. Once the handbreak is pulled up, you may remove your foot from the break and take it out of gear. You are now stationary the safest possible way. Out of gear and with the handbreak on.

There are a few good reasons for this. If somebody were to hit into the back of you when you unexpectingly and all you had was your foot on the break and you were still in gear with the handbreak down, chance are your going to get a shock, and what could have only been a small tip into the back of you, may result in you going into the nice car in front and if you weren't parked the proper distance behind (they say park so you can see the person in fronts back wheels, I like to keep a little bit further back in a car without power steering in the event a big truck comes from behind blasting its horn because it's breaks were cut or they didn't anticipate the stop so I can nip off to the side out of harms way (unlikely but still, it's an extra meter or so that could save your life and it's a video they show you in the advanced driving course of an accident that was caused that way). Also when driving off, if you have the handbreak on, you don't have to make that brief change from break to accellerator, you see so many people who use their break on a hill and then when the traffic goes, they roll back because that brief change from break to accellerator (again distance will save you here from behind, but what if somebody is up your tail, you roll into them and you're at fault).

So when starting off with your handbreak still on, put it into first, get the bite and then handbreak and accellerator down together and clutch up the opposite way, you will take off smoothly and safely. Again, this should be done every time you become stationary, not just on a hill. An exception is if you are in moderately heavy traffic and you'll be stopping, but you'll never really be stationary, just stay in first gear, keep your distance and don't accellerate too hard or you'll just have to stop again sooner than you would have if you just let the gear do the work. Another exception to the above is if you have just stopped when the opposite lights have turned red, meaning yours are about to go green (only if you know the sequence) or if the lights have gone green and your a car or two behind. Clutch, break, stop, handbreak and then go from whatever gear you were in straight to first instead of what you would normally do (neutral, clutch release, clutch on, first). You just need to go to first without releasing the clutch, then just release the hanbreak and accellerate at the same time.

So in summary, to stop:
get into 3rd or below while breaking smoothly from a distnce.
when a few metres from stopping position (a bit further back than seeing the car in fronts back wheels) apply the clutch, then break, handbreak up neautral, foot off clutch, foot off break.

To start:
clutch in, 1st gear, handbreak down with accellerator and clutch up.


Let's keep it on topic please, I don't want to have to read through arguments to find out what help is wanted:)

J_R

Hi

Tauren Wrote

keep the car in position with the clutch and the accelerator, but i have a horrible time trying to find that point

.

Here very basic clutch control.

Find a nice quiet road with a very slight gradient.

Then wee bit of gas, find the holding point. Several ways of knowing when you have found that point. Engine note will deepen, (Music of course is OFF), if you have a rev counter, revs will drop. You may be able to see the front of the car lift slightly. Or watch the wing mirror, you will see the ground move as car lifts. Let off the handbrake.

Hold your right foot steady and using only the clutch, control the car.
Let up the clutch very slightly the car will start to move slowly forward and gather momentum. To stop it gaining speed push back down the clutch the tiniest amount as it moves off.

Hold everything. The car should now be moving slowly forward.

Push in the clutch gently and slightly the car will slow come to a halt. Gently, very slightly let up the clutch start moving again.

Listen carefully to the engine, the note will deepen when the clutch is up, cars moves forward. Push in, disengaging the clutch, the engine note will rise, car will slow. Push in too far and it will roll backwards.

So, practice moving slowly forward then coming to a halt by gently letting up pushing in the clutch.

Few things to note.

Use your toe on the clutch, not your instep. Try and keep your heel on the floor

Hold your right foot/accelerator rock steady. Otherwise you have two variables to control. Double the trouble.

Only do it for a few minutes. Otherwise clutch gets hot and burns.
Double check car is in 1st gear, if in 3rd gear burns out the clutch very very quickly.
Get a Funny smell, you have overdone it, stop.
Give too much gas burns out the clutch quickly.

If you still can not master clutch control it is either you, the car or you do not understand my instructions.

Car:. Try a different one.
You: Why. ? Have you got your toe on the clutch and your heel on the floor. If you can not control your foot, consider putting something under your heel to give it support. Few layers of old carpet, a book, whatever. (If that works secure it well as very dangerous to have anything loose in the footwell, might move over under the brake)
Or you may not be holding the gas pedal steady. See if you can get support for your right foot by jamming/holding it against the side of the footwell.

Not understand my instructions: ask for clarification

Rgds

Crapbag

Ok so heres another question for the Test. What is tested? Where are you graded I know of the following

Hill starts
3 point Turns
Reversing around a corner
Roundabouts
Gear change
Observation

for those who know and have their cert for passing the test with all of the areas on it. Can you give us a break down. What are the individual tests, such as hill starts etc

Alun

cormie wrote:

Lots of text with the word 'break' in it

Aaaaargh!!! I feel like a spelling-nazi here, but it's brake, not break

seamus

The test is designed to assess your overall competence in the vehicle.

I don't know if you've seen the sheet, but basically there are about thirty items grouped into separate categories. I'll see if I can find the sheet from my last test at home, but I'll recall it as best I can. For each item, there are three possible grades of fault - Grade 1, 2 or 3. Grade 1 is a minor error - you can make as many of these errors as you like. Grade 2 is a more serious error. You can make a maximum of three grade 2 errors under a single item, eight in a single category or 11 overall. If you make any more than this, you will fail. Grade 3 errors are very serious or potentially dangerous errors. Just one of these will result in a fail.

Grade 3 errors aren't handed out for failing to do your 3 point properly. Nor are they handed out for minor things like stalling at the lights (*everybody* stalls every so often, no matter how many years you've been driving), grinding your gears, indicating a little late, etc.

As I say, I'll try get a hold of the actual sheet later on so you can see it exactly, but the two major things which tend to catch most people out are:

Progress. Progress isn't just about getting away swiftly from a set of lights, or taking the right opportunity to turn out of a side road. Progress is about your ability to read the road and traffic conditions and using this information to drive fluidly, efficiently and with the least delay to yourself or other road users. Over-cautiousness is the enemy of progress, and being too careful will get you hit with a whole pile of grade 2 faults.
The best place to explain progress -v- cautiosness is at a roundabout. You approach a roundabout, stop, then look to see what the traffic is like before going.
Someone else watches the roundabout as he approaches. He watches what is on the roundabout, what is entering the roundabout, and who is approaching the roundabout. Then he considers who has right-of-way over him, who will be at the roundabout when he gets there, and combines these two to figure out who (if anyone) he will have to yield to when he arrives. If the stars are aligned, he can continue through without stopping.
Who has made better progress? Who appears more cautious?

Observation. If you don't know what is around you at any given instant, then you can't plan ahead. Observation plays a big part in progress. Get used to thinking before you perform any manouver which will affect traffic around you - turning, braking, changing lanes, etc.
Think:
1. Who will this affect? (Generally, i.e. "This only affects traffic behind me", "This affects all traffic ahead of an behind me")
2. How do I minimise my effect on them?

Then you look around to locate everyone that your manouver may affect (don't rely on your mirrors to show you everything). Then you take whatever action is necessary to minimise your effect on them (indication, change of road position, etc).

J_R

Crapbag wrote:

What are the individual tests, such as hill starts etc

Seamus has given very good advise above. Heed it. !!

Here is the Report Sheet

Here Marking System

Check out Dept of Transport "Preparing for the Test"

and following is the information leaflet sent out by Dept of Transport The Driving Test in Ireland

Gives brief description of the Manoeuvres.

One point, note that it is not "Reverse around a corner" it is "reverse into a side road".

Would not worry overmuch re. the marking system. That is the examiners job. You concentrate, focus on your driving.