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First Time Drivers Guide

Crapbag

Hi,

Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere but i couldnt find it. I was looking for info on some of the following:

What would be a good first time car? (for either male or female)
What insurance companies are suitable for first timers?
What driving schools are found to be the most comprehensive?
Any other hints and tips for first time drivers

I know this can be quite a broad topic so if you have some useful information, throw your hat in the ring but try keep hearsay and rumour out of the thread.

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cormie

Car - 1lite - Ford Fiesta, Nissan Micra, VW Polo, Opel Corsa are the top picks

Insurance - Start with Quinn Direct, pay monthly, when you get experience, do the provisional ignition with Hibernian and go with a broker of theirs like brittoninsurance.com or tesco.ie, this will cost you €70 and if you pass, which you should if you have the experience, you can cancel your Quinn Direct Policy and start a new one with the broker and it will be much cheaper.

Driving Schools - I'll teach you. €30 per hour, €250 for 10 hours.

Hints and tips - Hang out in this forum, ask as many questions as you can and read posts regarding rules of the roads, situational questions etc. Learn the right way, don't get into bad habbits. Drive safely and always check your blind spot!

Crapbag

Thanks for that

Are you a registered instructor? If so what company do you work for and what is your area? (Just inquiries, not inquisition)

I relation to the test, what would you feel requires the most practice?
Hill start?
3 point turn?
Reversing around a corner?
other

Do you recommend a petrol or diesel engine car given that diesels are traditionally hard to stall and would help build your confidence?

cormie

No I'm not a DIR registered instructor yet;) I'm just trying to start off, I've taught a few friends and have done advanced driving courses. I'm not set up yet or anything either. I'm based in Bray. It's just a recent idea I had:)

With regards hill starts etc. I think the hill start is one of the most important things for starting to learn how to drive. Clutch control is what people have the most difficult with starting off, Once you master the hill start, you're pretty much good to go. Stalling the car puts great pressure under a learner driver and can cause loss of concentration in other areas.

Again, both 3 point turns and reversing around a corner require good clutch control and will be much easier if you are comfortable using the cluthch. They will test all 3 so they are all of equal importance for the actual test itself.

I wouldn't choose diesel over petrol just because of the stalling issue, it depends on how you will be driving, what conditions, speed limits and mileage.

I also think overall, it is better if it is easier to stall the car. This will ensure you will aquire the best possible control of it. For example, if you can get away without stalling in a diesel, where you would in a petrol, you may think it's ok but it is best to just do it the right way, where you would get away with it in both cars.

netwhizkid

cormie wrote:

No I'm not a DIR registered instructor yet;) I'm just trying to start off, I've taught a few friends and have done advanced driving courses. I'm not set up yet or anything either. I'm based in Bray. It's just a recent idea I had:)

With regards hill starts etc. I think the hill start is one of the most important things for starting to learn how to drive. Clutch control is what people have the most difficult with starting off, Once you master the hill start, you're pretty much good to go. Stalling the car puts great pressure under a learner driver and can cause loss of concentration in other areas.

Again, both 3 point turns and reversing around a corner require good clutch control and will be much easier if you are comfortable using the clutch. They will test all 3 so they are all of equal importance for the actual test itself.

I wouldn't choose diesel over petrol just because of the stalling issue, it depends on how you will be driving, what conditions, speed limits and mileage.

I also think overall, it is better if it is easier to stall the car. This will ensure you will aquire the best possible control of it. For example, if you can get away without stalling in a diesel, where you would in a petrol, you may think it's ok but it is best to just do it the right way, where you would get away with it in both cars.

Great advice there for anybody starting off, another golden rule I would give you is under no circumstances take any lessons or advice from your parents as they will screw you up, as mine did to me when I went down the Manual road last year.

I was insured for a month on a Toyota (before I got my own car) I found clutch control to be my achilles heel and couldn't change down gears right, (funnily changing up was okay for me) anyway my confidence was blown and having your parents shouting at you etc. doesn't help. Now one year later I have myself a BMW 316 Automatic and would never again sit behind the wheel of a manual because of my horrid experiences of them. They really are a stupid system and as much as I would like to be able to drive one it is one thing I abandoned in life.

Basically don't let your parents have anything to do with your driving except maybe pay for it

(assuming you are a teenage first time driver)

Manuals suck tbh.

knifey_spoonie

Ive only started driving within the last month, ive had 6 lessons and what has really given me confidence is getting some practice outside lessons, it really helps, Clutch control is key, before i even got lessons i got my clutching right you really should be able to get your car moving using just your clutch and no gas this is something ive managed to while in 5th gear and my town driving has just improved

It also help with the reversing around a corner

Crapbag

I found clutch control difficult but the car i was in had clutch trouble especially in second gear. I have to say that learning is down mostly to muscle memory. Practicing take offs repeatly is great. I went on to hill starts but i have to say that if you're learning in a car with a crappy clutch, it does nothing but frustrate you.

Would anyone recommend models to avoid as a first timer? (appart from large CC)
Snags they encountered as 1st timers?
Garages and breakdown services that didnt rip you off?

chrislad

I completely agree with the whole not letting your parents teach you. I had 9 lessons with a driving instructor before I went into the car with him. Granted, I wasn't great, but I swear, he nearly started me crying with the shouting and the like. He's been very good lately, and he's taken me out a good bit to get some practice, but I'd prefer to stick with my instructor and my uncle until I get my full license.

whassupp2

I've the test in a couple of weeks.

One question that my instructor was unsure of:

Before reversing around the bend, is it acceptable to turn the side mirrors downwards so that you can have a clear view of the curb which you are about to reverse around???? (and then change them upwards again afterwards??)

DrivingInfo

whassupp2 wrote:

I've the test in a couple of weeks.

One question that my instructor was unsure of:

Before reversing around the bend, is it acceptable to turn the side mirrors downwards so that you can have a clear view of the curb which you are about to reverse around???? (and then change them upwards again afterwards??)

Yes this is ok just dont forget to put it back

By right you should not have to do this, set the mirror the right way because if you have it down you may not see something behind you

whassupp2

Thanks

DrivingInfo

I designed the DrivingInfo website to help people with driving and driving information. So there is help out there.

cormie

I agree that time alone in the car when learning to drive is of great help to learning. I'm even thinking, if I do get going with giving lessons, what I might do is bring the learner to a private property with a hill for the first hour, when the hour is up, I'll leave them there and come back 2/3 hours later and have another hour with them. They pay for 2 hours but get 3 hours in between of greatly beneficial time trying themselves.

RE: reversing around the corner. Yeah, you shouldn't need to adjust the mirrors at all, and to be honest, I can't imagine any tester looking too kindly on that. If you need to do this in a real life situation, you may not have the time to go adjusting your mirrors. It's not about reversing around a corner (how often do you do that?), it's about reversing accuracy and safety. Best thing to do is find a point on the window and line up the point with the kerb from your viewpoint when you know the point is accurate as to proximity of the kerb (get the instructor to tell you how close you are to the kerb before you pick your point)

Crapbag

Ill agree with you all on the parents thing. My Dad is a mechanic, he raced for 15 years and qualified as a driving tester but didnt take the job. It was down to instructor training. He simply didnt have the patience for mistakes, so avoid parents. He was trying to teach me the swedish rally trick of left foot breaking on my second lesson.

Any tips on observation since its what fails alot of people?

cormie

Just always be alert, check everywhere, look ahead of you and not so much at the car in front. If you're keeping proper distance between you and the car in front, it will allow greater observation in other areas and anticipation of what the car in front may be about to do. Do not keep your focus on one thing, allow your eyes to scan everything, they will pick up on anything that may be a hazard and you can then focus and determine your course of action to be taken. This included your rear view mirror and occasional wing mirror checks too where necessary.

Make sure you are not driving too fast for anticipation (around corners etc), take every corner as if there may be a cyclist/hazard there as the one time you don't take this caution, could be a fatal outcome.

Don't get involved in heavy conversation, have music too loud or talk on your phone.

Keep your eyes open and don't drive tired or of course, under the influence of heavy medication, alcohol or drugs.

bullrunner

does anybody have (or know where to get) a comprehensive list of what will be examined (or what they look to examine) in the driving test (espec the under the bonnet stuff)?

thanks

J_R

Hi,

Crapbag Wrote

I relation to the test, what would you feel requires the most practice?
Hill start?
3 point turn?
Reversing around a corner?
other

Reversing around a corner, for example only takes 2% to 3% of the driving test time. Granted if you can not reverse you fail, but I have seen people practice hour after hour. Also some Driving instructors spend an inordinate amount of time on this manoeuvre. Very wasteful.

In actual fact it is not "Reversing around a corner" You are asked to reverse into the road keeping reasonably close to the kerb. They want to see, are you capable of reversing into a limited opening, keeping good overall observation while doing so.

Likewise the other two manoeuvers If you have clutch control the hill start should be no problem whatsoever. The 3 point turn (also misnamed - proper term "Turnabout") is a simple car control test, again clutch control and observation.

Spend your major time driving, learn how to deal with all type of junctions and situations. That is, after you have mastered clutch control. But if you had a car with a proper clutch you should learn how to control the car with the clutch in a few minutes. And you do of course only use clutch control in 1st or reverse gear. You mentioned something aobut 2nd gear. ??

knife_fighter Wrote

ive managed to while in 5th gear

Was this by accident. ?? Not recommended moving off (or practising moving off) in anything but 1st or reverse gear. Very severe on the clutch. (Moving off down a hill, OK you can use higher gears)

cormie wrote

if I do get going with giving lessons

OK, nothing personal you may make a fantastic instructor. And the best of luck. Unfortunately in Ireland anybody can do similiar. Simply call themselves instructors and away.

In the UK of the 100 people who start training to become instructors only 10 pass the final exam and become ADI's. 90 fail and drop out.

If those figures were transposed to Ireland 90% should not be instructing. However all who decide to become "Instructors", do so. No fails, no drop outs 100% pass rate. Majority do no training whatsoever of these, some are quite good from the start, good drivers and a natural ability to pass on their knowledge. Others study why their pupils failed (or passed) the test. These become quite good, but they have learned at their pupils expense. However quite a few believe they already know it all. They never learn and continue teaching their own unique interpretation of the Rules and misconceptions on how to drive. And blame the testers when their pupils fail.

Poor workman blames his tools. Poor driving instructors blame the test examiner.

So in choosing an instructor, any instructor who says so and so examiner never passes anyone first time, they all work to a quota etc etc - keep clear.

Bullrunner
Actual Questions Asked and

List of Questions

Safe motoring

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote:

Hi,

Crapbag Wrote

Reversing around a corner, for example only takes 2% to 3% of the driving test time. Granted if you can not reverse you fail, but I have seen people practice hour after hour. Also some Driving instructors spend an inordinate amount of time on this manoeuvre. Very wasteful.

In actual fact it is not "Reversing around a corner" You are asked to reverse into the road keeping reasonably close to the kerb. They want to see, are you capable of reversing into a limited opening, keeping good overall observation while doing so.

Likewise the other two manoeuvers If you have clutch control the hill start should be no problem whatsoever. The 3 point turn (also misnamed - proper term "Turnabout") is a simple car control test, again clutch control and observation.

Spend your major time driving, learn how to deal with all type of junctions and situations. That is, after you have mastered clutch control. But if you had a car with a proper clutch you should learn how to control the car with the clutch in a few minutes. And you do of course only use clutch control in 1st or reverse gear. You mentioned something aobut 2nd gear. ??

knife_fighter Wrote

Was this by accident. ?? Not recommended moving off (or practising moving off) in anything but 1st or reverse gear. Very severe on the clutch. (Moving off down a hill, OK you can use higher gears)

cormie wrote

OK, nothing personal you may make a fantastic instructor. And the best of luck. Unfortunately in Ireland anybody can do similiar. Simply call themselves instructors and away.

In the UK of the 100 people who start training to become instructors only 10 pass the final exam and become ADI's. 90 fail and drop out.

If those figures were transposed to Ireland 90% should not be instructing. However all who decide to become "Instructors", do so. No fails, no drop outs 100% pass rate. Majority do no training whatsoever of these, some are quite good from the start, good drivers and a natural ability to pass on their knowledge. Others study why their pupils failed (or passed) the test. These become quite good, but they have learned at their pupils expense. However quite a few believe they already know it all. They never learn and continue teaching their own unique interpretation of the Rules and misconceptions on how to drive. And blame the testers when their pupils fail.

Poor workman blames his tools. Poor driving instructors blame the test examiner.

So in choosing an instructor, any instructor who says so and so examiner never passes anyone first time, they all work to a quota etc etc - keep clear.

Bullrunner
Actual Questions Asked and

List of Questions

Safe motoring

HI J_R

if you are a driving instructor you should offer to teach this person as what you said is very true and we see this every day.

sullivk

Got my first car - 1.3L Toyota Starlet. Haven't tried it out yet but my sister learnt in it and she said its brilliant.

Im a 19 year old girl, first provisional licence, no driving experience whatsoever. For TPFT Britton Insurance quoted me 1212 euro, whereas quinn direct quoted me 1768 euro for.

Had my first driving lesson with the Irish School of Motoring about an hour ago, went well I think, just taught me basic taking off, stopping and steering. Lessons are 35 euro for an hour.
(I'm still a nervous wreck though!)

mloc123

netwhizkid wrote:

Now one year later I have myself a BMW 316 Automatic and would never again sit behind the wheel of a manual because of my horrid experiences of them. They really are a stupid system and as much as I would like to be able to drive one it is one thing I abandoned in life.

Manuals suck tbh.

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

cantdecide

i haven't even read the whole thread but i a make a point of trying to educate first time drivers about the reality of running off to buy a micra/ fiesta/ polo.
don't do it- they aren't real cars, they're small, uncomfortable, hard to drive and over-rated trolleys. 1.4 cars like astra/ civic/ golf (or bigger) are the business and despite what your gran says, difference in running costs are negligable. don't fall afoul of the oldest motoring cliche. don't buy a car for a learner, buy a car for a driver.

Stark

Depends where you're driving. If you're driving somewhere like Cork City or many other towns in Ireland, the smaller the better to squeeze down narrow streets between parked cars. If you're driving in Dublin, then bigger is better for holding your own on the road and having that bit of power on motorways.

Also 1.0L vs 1.4L can make a big difference to a young driver's insurance.

Initial car cost would be a big thing for a first time driver as well.

Capt'n Midnight

you don't need a new car to learn in, you don't get so worried about scratching an older car.

for reversing you want to be able to see out the back window , some cars are a bit high at the back

netwhizkid

mloc123 wrote:

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

That is typical of the cynical comments I have got everywhere from people upon hearing my decision to go Auto only. I guess 200Million+ North Americans shouldn't be allowed on the road either so? A lot of people in Ireland are now choosing Auto too, especially in City areas where traffic is kat.

mloc123

netwhizkid wrote:

That is typical of the cynical comments I have got everywhere from people upon hearing my decision to go Auto only. I guess 200Million+ North Americans shouldn't be allowed on the road either so? A lot of people in Ireland are now choosing Auto too, especially in City areas where traffic is kat.

Fair enough if you can drive a manual and think auto is better but if you can't even learn to drive a manual you are in trouble, its not like its the hardest thing in the world.

Stark

What a rediculous statement to make. I can barely kick a football, doesn't matter when I'm in a car though. Why should not being able to operate a manual affect someone driving an automatic? They recommend to people learning to drive in America that they be proficient in handling traffic situations in an automatic before trying to progress to manual transmission.

There are plenty of drivers out there who are well able to operate a manual gearbox but barely aware that there are other drivers on the road. It's a tiny part of the driving equation. You can't make a blatant leap of logic and say that someone who doesn't know a manual gearbox shouldnt' be on the road. Like netwhizzkid said, if you apply that logic, then most people in the USA should be off the road.

Now excuse me while I go shower after taking sides with our resident troll.

Creamy Goodness

cormie wrote:

what I might do is bring the learner to a private property with a hill for the first hour, when the hour is up, I'll leave them there and come back 2/3 hours later and have another hour with them. They pay for 2 hours but get 3 hours in between of greatly beneficial time trying themselves.

presentation college bray has a good hill for learning hill starts, tis where i done mine.

mloc123

Stark wrote:

Now excuse me while I go shower after taking sides with our resident troll.

I'm a resident troll?

Edit: just read it properly, nevermind.

ninty9er

One of my best friends got the bad habit of trying his first "car park stint" in his dad's auto box S350.

I put him in the corsa in a deserted car park and he was gutted that you "have to press the clutch FULLY...EVERY time you change gears"... Needless to say he didn't stay in the driver's seat too long. the crunching was painful.

Some people should just learn AUTO and STAY auto. His parents can drive both but choose to have auto, his mom is changing soon and going auto too. She wants him to learn manual , but I can't see it happening when there'll be a clk in the driveway to play with

cormie

Cremo wrote:

presentation college bray has a good hill for learning hill starts, tis where i done mine.

I've taken people there when teaching them for that hill:)

antodeco

Easy. I recommend:

Nissan Micra 998 cc try and get a 98 - 01 version. Best built and hold thier value really well.
Depending on what insurance company Id recommend, varies depending on your age and sex.
If you have jsut started driving, apply for your test now. It will take around a year to come around, and by then you will be flying (driving!)!

Hope that helps