First Time Drivers Guide

smemon

i own a manual car, and am able to drive it

however, i've driven auto's and if i hd the cash, i'd take one any day over a manual. i'd say at least 40% of my time is spent crawling along or in traffic and that requires some degree of concentration (changing up to 2nd, back down again, handbrake, neutral, give foot a rest, get bite/balance accelerator, move off....repeat procedure 5 times before you get through traffic lights.) in an automatic you can just relax and sit back and enjoy the music or whatever...

also, i believe auto's are safer, especially for learners. You can't really roll back on a hill, you can't grind the gears or damage any part of the engine/transmission but most importantly, you can't stall.

i think everyone should learn in an auto before going on to a manual as it is being thrown in at the deep end.

if you can handle it, then all well and good but most people imo, can't grasp all aspects of a manual for at least a month.

Pipp

mloc123 wrote:

If you cannot manage a manual transmission you should not be on the road.

Apologies if this is off topic to the thread but I think this point should be made.

Your opinion that anyone that cant manage a manual transmission should be off the road is somewhat blinkered as you dont seem to realise that there are a variety of reasons that people drive automatic cars including personal choice/preference.
Also, there are medical reasons to drive an automatic. Disabled people drive adapted cars which might be automatic, or have no pedals at all. Does this mean that they should be off the road?
In my opinion they are just as entitled to be on the road as you or I, and as long as the car that they are driving is safe, and designed specifically for their needs, and adapted accordingly then who are you to say that they shouldnt be on the road. These people cant manage a manual transmission car.
My personal opinion about manual cars is that they are tricky to drive and it takes time to build up the skill of manipulating the clutch and gears correctly and I can understand why some people would have difficulty with this task. An automatic car simply takes this out of the equation and makes driving much easier.
I drive a manual car, but I have decided in the future that I might try an automatic car to see if I like it, and if I do, then I will make the change.
I suppose my main point is that on the road its impossible to tell which car is automatic and which is manual unless you watch the driver's movements and listen to the engine working. Theres no "bite" in a automatic, however you can hear the gearbox shift up and down the gears when the vehicle is in motion.
Surely its a personal choice as to which type of car you drive?

Crapbag

Lets not turn another thread into another pointless bitching session. Your opinions on peoples driving ability dont have any place here. If you have some advice for first time drivers thats fine but dont force other people looking for information to read through yet another thread filled with rubbish. This is aimed at no one in particular, please, lets just keep the thread for information purposes. We've had some good information so far, keep it coming

ninty9er

Is there not something to do with engine speed and downshifting that makes it slower to stop an automatic. (i.e more dangerous for a learner)

(i.e. the driver can't pull back the car with gear control...my instructor told me this and i'm fairly sure there's something about it in the DTT CD-ROM)

mloc123

ninty9er wrote:

Is there not something to do with engine speed and downshifting that makes it slower to stop an automatic. (i.e more dangerous for a learner)

(i.e. the driver can't pull back the car with gear control...my instructor told me this and i'm fairly sure there's something about it in the DTT CD-ROM)

thats certainly one reason that automatics go through brake pads alot quicker than manuals

Mitch Connor

Can anyone give me tips on clutch control - i find it a nightmare.

Starting off i am grand, and i can do hill starts no problem now (thanks to people parkign right up my backside on hills!! WHY DO THIS TO A LEARNER DRIVER!!??)

However, i simply can not get the hang of it when alrady moving, in traffic for instance. At the moment, if a have to stop on any sort of incline, i have to pull the handbrake up, which is a pain to do if you only want to stop for a split second. I know it is possible to put the car into first, and then to keep the car in position with the clutch and the accelerator, but i have a horrible time trying to find that point - and if i don't find it i start to roll back and panic and things get nasty for a few seconds!

cormie

When changing up gears, accellerate while changing to meet the flow up the higher gear, when changing down, do the opposite (break).

If you're in slow moving traffic on a hill going up, just stay in first gear unless it's really necessary to go into second. It's ok to go from 2nd to first if you need to, other wise, going so slow in 2nd, you'll just stall the car or find yourself riding the clutch. Always leave sufficient room between you and the car in front, this will allow greater reaction times. As I've said before, look ahead aswell so you can anticipate whether the traffic is going to stop or not.

The correct and safest way to break is from a moving state, to break slowly, from a far distant to allow a slow and safe approach to traffic lights. Breaking early also informs other drivers that they too should prepare to stop. It's generally best to stop in 3rd gear or below, if you are going this slow enough to be about to stop in 4th, it means you wont be able to take off quickly if a hazard occurs. So if you are in 5th gear, breaking, go from 5th, to 4th when the speed is right and then 4th to 3rd. If you know the lights are going to change before you stop, you may want to go to 2nd too. If not, it's ok to stay in 3rd and when close to your stopping point, use the clutch and then apply the final pressure to break smoothly.

The second the car is steady, apply the handbreak. Every time the car is steady you should apply the handbreak, regardless of hills or anything like that, it's safest and best for your car to apply to handbreak every time you stop. Pull up the handbreak by pushing in the button and when it is near the top, release the button and let it click into place. This again, is best for your car, pretty much everyone just uses the button to put it down, but all those clicks you hear when pulling it up, are un-necessary wear on the handbreak. I used to do it until I was told at the advanced driving course not to, takes about 4 days to get used to. Once the handbreak is pulled up, you may remove your foot from the break and take it out of gear. You are now stationary the safest possible way. Out of gear and with the handbreak on.

There are a few good reasons for this. If somebody were to hit into the back of you when you unexpectingly and all you had was your foot on the break and you were still in gear with the handbreak down, chance are your going to get a shock, and what could have only been a small tip into the back of you, may result in you going into the nice car in front and if you weren't parked the proper distance behind (they say park so you can see the person in fronts back wheels, I like to keep a little bit further back in a car without power steering in the event a big truck comes from behind blasting its horn because it's breaks were cut or they didn't anticipate the stop so I can nip off to the side out of harms way (unlikely but still, it's an extra meter or so that could save your life and it's a video they show you in the advanced driving course of an accident that was caused that way). Also when driving off, if you have the handbreak on, you don't have to make that brief change from break to accellerator, you see so many people who use their break on a hill and then when the traffic goes, they roll back because that brief change from break to accellerator (again distance will save you here from behind, but what if somebody is up your tail, you roll into them and you're at fault).

So when starting off with your handbreak still on, put it into first, get the bite and then handbreak and accellerator down together and clutch up the opposite way, you will take off smoothly and safely. Again, this should be done every time you become stationary, not just on a hill. An exception is if you are in moderately heavy traffic and you'll be stopping, but you'll never really be stationary, just stay in first gear, keep your distance and don't accellerate too hard or you'll just have to stop again sooner than you would have if you just let the gear do the work. Another exception to the above is if you have just stopped when the opposite lights have turned red, meaning yours are about to go green (only if you know the sequence) or if the lights have gone green and your a car or two behind. Clutch, break, stop, handbreak and then go from whatever gear you were in straight to first instead of what you would normally do (neutral, clutch release, clutch on, first). You just need to go to first without releasing the clutch, then just release the hanbreak and accellerate at the same time.

So in summary, to stop:
get into 3rd or below while breaking smoothly from a distnce.
when a few metres from stopping position (a bit further back than seeing the car in fronts back wheels) apply the clutch, then break, handbreak up neautral, foot off clutch, foot off break.

To start:
clutch in, 1st gear, handbreak down with accellerator and clutch up.


Let's keep it on topic please, I don't want to have to read through arguments to find out what help is wanted:)

J_R

Hi

Tauren Wrote

keep the car in position with the clutch and the accelerator, but i have a horrible time trying to find that point

.

Here very basic clutch control.

Find a nice quiet road with a very slight gradient.

Then wee bit of gas, find the holding point. Several ways of knowing when you have found that point. Engine note will deepen, (Music of course is OFF), if you have a rev counter, revs will drop. You may be able to see the front of the car lift slightly. Or watch the wing mirror, you will see the ground move as car lifts. Let off the handbrake.

Hold your right foot steady and using only the clutch, control the car.
Let up the clutch very slightly the car will start to move slowly forward and gather momentum. To stop it gaining speed push back down the clutch the tiniest amount as it moves off.

Hold everything. The car should now be moving slowly forward.

Push in the clutch gently and slightly the car will slow come to a halt. Gently, very slightly let up the clutch start moving again.

Listen carefully to the engine, the note will deepen when the clutch is up, cars moves forward. Push in, disengaging the clutch, the engine note will rise, car will slow. Push in too far and it will roll backwards.

So, practice moving slowly forward then coming to a halt by gently letting up pushing in the clutch.

Few things to note.

Use your toe on the clutch, not your instep. Try and keep your heel on the floor

Hold your right foot/accelerator rock steady. Otherwise you have two variables to control. Double the trouble.

Only do it for a few minutes. Otherwise clutch gets hot and burns.
Double check car is in 1st gear, if in 3rd gear burns out the clutch very very quickly.
Get a Funny smell, you have overdone it, stop.
Give too much gas burns out the clutch quickly.

If you still can not master clutch control it is either you, the car or you do not understand my instructions.

Car:. Try a different one.
You: Why. ? Have you got your toe on the clutch and your heel on the floor. If you can not control your foot, consider putting something under your heel to give it support. Few layers of old carpet, a book, whatever. (If that works secure it well as very dangerous to have anything loose in the footwell, might move over under the brake)
Or you may not be holding the gas pedal steady. See if you can get support for your right foot by jamming/holding it against the side of the footwell.

Not understand my instructions: ask for clarification

Rgds

Crapbag

Ok so heres another question for the Test. What is tested? Where are you graded I know of the following

Hill starts
3 point Turns
Reversing around a corner
Roundabouts
Gear change
Observation

for those who know and have their cert for passing the test with all of the areas on it. Can you give us a break down. What are the individual tests, such as hill starts etc

Alun

cormie wrote:

Lots of text with the word 'break' in it

Aaaaargh!!! I feel like a spelling-nazi here, but it's brake, not break

seamus

The test is designed to assess your overall competence in the vehicle.

I don't know if you've seen the sheet, but basically there are about thirty items grouped into separate categories. I'll see if I can find the sheet from my last test at home, but I'll recall it as best I can. For each item, there are three possible grades of fault - Grade 1, 2 or 3. Grade 1 is a minor error - you can make as many of these errors as you like. Grade 2 is a more serious error. You can make a maximum of three grade 2 errors under a single item, eight in a single category or 11 overall. If you make any more than this, you will fail. Grade 3 errors are very serious or potentially dangerous errors. Just one of these will result in a fail.

Grade 3 errors aren't handed out for failing to do your 3 point properly. Nor are they handed out for minor things like stalling at the lights (*everybody* stalls every so often, no matter how many years you've been driving), grinding your gears, indicating a little late, etc.

As I say, I'll try get a hold of the actual sheet later on so you can see it exactly, but the two major things which tend to catch most people out are:

Progress. Progress isn't just about getting away swiftly from a set of lights, or taking the right opportunity to turn out of a side road. Progress is about your ability to read the road and traffic conditions and using this information to drive fluidly, efficiently and with the least delay to yourself or other road users. Over-cautiousness is the enemy of progress, and being too careful will get you hit with a whole pile of grade 2 faults.
The best place to explain progress -v- cautiosness is at a roundabout. You approach a roundabout, stop, then look to see what the traffic is like before going.
Someone else watches the roundabout as he approaches. He watches what is on the roundabout, what is entering the roundabout, and who is approaching the roundabout. Then he considers who has right-of-way over him, who will be at the roundabout when he gets there, and combines these two to figure out who (if anyone) he will have to yield to when he arrives. If the stars are aligned, he can continue through without stopping.
Who has made better progress? Who appears more cautious?

Observation. If you don't know what is around you at any given instant, then you can't plan ahead. Observation plays a big part in progress. Get used to thinking before you perform any manouver which will affect traffic around you - turning, braking, changing lanes, etc.
Think:
1. Who will this affect? (Generally, i.e. "This only affects traffic behind me", "This affects all traffic ahead of an behind me")
2. How do I minimise my effect on them?

Then you look around to locate everyone that your manouver may affect (don't rely on your mirrors to show you everything). Then you take whatever action is necessary to minimise your effect on them (indication, change of road position, etc).

J_R

Crapbag wrote:

What are the individual tests, such as hill starts etc

Seamus has given very good advise above. Heed it. !!

Here is the Report Sheet

Here Marking System

Check out Dept of Transport "Preparing for the Test"

and following is the information leaflet sent out by Dept of Transport The Driving Test in Ireland

Gives brief description of the Manoeuvres.

One point, note that it is not "Reverse around a corner" it is "reverse into a side road".

Would not worry overmuch re. the marking system. That is the examiners job. You concentrate, focus on your driving.