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Towns still waiting for a bypass

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    mysterious wrote: »
    So what bypasses do we need NOW.

    Apart from Adare and Claregalway which are getting one ASAP.


    NWC/Abbeyfeale N21
    Birr N52
    Sligo N15
    Longford N5
    Carrick on Shannon N24
    Tralee bypass N22
    Tipperary town.

    I did mention it on this thread sometime ago but Ballina (county Mayo) on the N59 from the Sligo side of the N59 around to N26, ringing around the Eastern side of the town, badly needed although probably low on the national priority list - would not need to be dual just a free flow single carriage road to keep traffic moving that does not want to go into the town -has been in the town and county plans for years but all the usual issues now apply - housing estates built where it was originally intended etc and no corridor left, but there you go could find the same story in many other towns. Also needs a new Moy crossing which will effect the price and therefore mean it won't happen, there is a link to the proposed scheme on the NRA website http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/MayoCountyCouncil/N59BallinaReliefRoute/SchemeName,15432,en.html

    Its to be called the Ballina Relief Road and will act as a ring into which all roads coming into the town will connect - which means pretty much the same as by-pass in my book but its under the stage of "route selection" - which actually means We have this here in case anyone asks about it but it is totally meaningless - well it does mean one thing only - it won't happen


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    monument wrote: »
    The circular road for Ballina is planned, for years now; I think the council has ownership of the land or at least wouldn’t let anything be built on them.


    The one-way system between the bridges is logical. It allows for greater free flow, leaving the queues in places they won’t interrupt other traffic.

    .

    Not to the locals its not - especially if there is a funeral on at the cathedral, the one way system around the Quays in Ballina is in fact completely illogical, and I'm no to sure about the council owning the corridor for the ring road bypass relief road - call it what you will it won't happen for another twenty years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭wellboss


    westtip wrote: »
    Not to the locals its not - especially if there is a funeral on at the cathedral, the one way system around the Quays in Ballina is in fact completely illogical, and I'm no to sure about the council owning the corridor for the ring road bypass relief road - call it what you will it won't happen for another twenty years.


    Totally agree, The traffic in the town is brutal because of that stupid illogical one way system around the bridges.

    That bypass/ring road was meant to go near my house but the "planned" route now has industrial units in it's path and the other areas near by are privately owned so don't think the council own any of the land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    wellboss wrote: »
    Totally agree, The traffic in the town is brutal because of that stupid illogical one way system around the bridges.

    That bypass/ring road was meant to go near my house but the "planned" route now has industrial units in it's path and the other areas near by are privately owned so don't think the council own any of the land.

    shouldn't worry too much about industrial units - there is plenty of spare capacity in that department around Ballina! re the land - yep I am pretty sure they don't own the land for the corridor otherwise they would have got on with this some time ago, land ownership and CPOs etc is probably the biggest part of any such job in terms of time. If they have the land they would as a I say have got on with.

    Anyways - it won't happen - we all know that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    tech2 wrote: »
    It was a real stupid idea building a dual carriageway outside Sligo and then not bypassing it. The east would be the only option for a route available linking up with the N15 and N16.

    Tralee bypass not a major deal if it does not get done.

    I hope Abbeyfeale and NCW get prioritised after the Adare, Longford and Claregalway bypasses though it not very likely.

    From my memory hearing the press getting excited about this Sligo inner relief road. I thought great finally a bypass for Sligo...

    Yet it ends just short of the town.
    Do people understand the term inner relief road, cus i'm just wondering about that.


    The "inner relief" didn't actually work did it, since it never actually bypassed Sligo did it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Dumb


    mysterious wrote: »
    From my memory hearing the press getting excited about this Sligo inner relief road. I thought great finally a bypass for Sligo...

    Yet it ends just short of the town.
    Do people understand the term inner relief road, cus i'm just wondering about that.


    The "inner relief" didn't actually work did it, since it never actually bypassed Sligo did it.

    Sure it basically goes through the middle of it! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    mysterious wrote: »
    From my memory hearing the press getting excited about this Sligo inner relief road. I thought great finally a bypass for Sligo...

    Yet it ends just short of the town.
    Do people understand the term inner relief road, cus i'm just wondering about that.


    The "inner relief" didn't actually work did it, since it never actually bypassed Sligo did it.

    Well it depends where you are travelling to, if you need to get to the hospital or IT from the South side of the town it makes a huge difference; traffic lights or not and certainly is quicker than the crawl there used to be down the old road, it certainly by-passes sligo if you are travelling to Donegal and the inner relief road forms part of the Atlantic corridor, however the co-ordination of the traffic lights is pretty crap.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    From my memory hearing the press getting excited about this Sligo inner relief road. I thought great finally a bypass for Sligo...

    Yet it ends just short of the town.
    Do people understand the term inner relief road, cus i'm just wondering about that.


    The "inner relief" didn't actually work did it, since it never actually bypassed Sligo did it.

    For the traffic that actually needs to bypass Sligo - N4 on to N15 - traffic the IRR did an amazing job - while there are still delays as it has lights, the days of spending an hour weaving through the town are dead and gone. A proper bypass would be a far better option but the IRR has done its job. It also can't really be developed up any more than it already is - making the countryside DC bit of the Dublin road M4 rather than N4 to protect it about all they could do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    westtip wrote: »
    it certainly by-passes sligo if you are travelling to Donegal and the inner relief road forms part of the Atlantic corridor, however the co-ordination of the traffic lights is pretty crap.

    It goes through the middle of the town with 6 sets of traffic lights to pass, so its not a bypass.

    Although I respect the fact it has reduced journey times it should have been constructed as a proper bypass in the first place dc to the east of Sligo linking up with the N16 and then the N15. The future bypass will require extra effort with the tie in.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    tech2 wrote: »
    It goes through the middle of the town with 6 sets of traffic lights to pass, so its not a bypass. .

    It is not supposed to be a bypass, the bypass is a separate ( large) project known as the Sligo Western Bypass that is only at the route selection stage .

    http://www.sligococo.ie/media/Newspaper%20Notice%20of%20Variation%20of%20Sligo%20and%20Environs%20Plan%20Sligo%20Western%20Bypass.pdf


    It is and always was an "Inner Relief Road" around the worst of the bottlenecks . It does that quite well I feel.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It is not supposed to be a bypass, the bypass is a separate ( large) project known as the Sligo Western Bypass that is only at the route selection stage .

    http://www.sligococo.ie/media/Newspaper%20Notice%20of%20Variation%20of%20Sligo%20and%20Environs%20Plan%20Sligo%20Western%20Bypass.pdf


    It is and always was an "Inner Relief Road" around the worst of the bottlenecks . It does that quite well I feel.

    I didnt say it was a bypass, westtip did and was pointing out to him it wasnt. It should have been constructed when they decided to improve the N4 into Sligo and not build it IRR in the first place.

    It just shows how road projects are badly planned here and you could point out so many that its a disgrace.

    Bypasses with roundabouts are what I really cant stand, the Roscrea bypass, Loughrea bypass, Bundoran, Donegal, Castlebar, I could go on all day. The original Nenegh bypass was a gem and I wish all of these were constructed like that with no crappy junctions aka roundabouts. Claremorris and Knock are other examples of good bypasses.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If they'd gone straight for the western bypass we'd still not have anything, though. The IRR brought Donegal half an hour closer to Dublin in peak periods and I believe most of the house purchasing and the like for it was done by Sligo Borough Council in the 1980s as it is. The extension of the DC to join it may make the tie-in harder but was also required to make the scheme coherent.

    If you want really wasteful schemes on the N4, Hughestown-Meera is a WS2 online upgrade that opened in 2004 and by 2006 they'd announced plans to dual it... The Edgeworthstown Relief Road was also probably over-engineered seeing as it was known that it was gonna have a short lifespan.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    MYOB wrote: »
    The Edgeworthstown Relief Road was also probably over-engineered seeing as it was known that it was gonna have a short lifespan.

    History will prove that it saved people from well over 10 years of misery, any plan to dual Mullingar - Longford is well down the food chain .

    Sure Anglo is costing us over 2 years of road program ( ie €4bn) every 6 months.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    History will prove that it saved people from well over 10 years of misery, any plan to dual Mullingar - Longford is well down the food chain .

    Sure Anglo is costing us over 2 years of road program ( ie €4bn) every 6 months.

    Ah, it needed to be done quickly, thats definite - just think the scale and finish are a bit high for a decade sticking plaster (that should have been 5 years max originally...)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    tech2 wrote: »
    I didnt say it was a bypass, westtip did and was pointing out to him it wasnt. It should have been constructed when they decided to improve the N4 into Sligo and not build it IRR in the first place.

    It just shows how road projects are badly planned here and you could point out so many that its a disgrace.

    Bypasses with roundabouts are what I really cant stand, the Roscrea bypass, Loughrea bypass, Bundoran, Donegal, Castlebar, I could go on all day. The original Nenegh bypass was a gem and I wish all of these were constructed like that with no crappy junctions aka roundabouts. Claremorris and Knock are other examples of good bypasses.

    I used the word "by-pass" in the loose send of the word and agree with what you have to say about the standard of planning - problem is planners work from planning text books and creating pretty pictures on PC screen using standard CAD software, they do not live in the real world and rarely speak to the great unwashed about planning decisions, if they did they would apply the CSR principle more (CSR = common Sense Reasoning) I also agree that if this hadn't gone ahead we would still be waiting for the western bypass (which is a much bigger and more difficult project) and would still be crawling past the Hawkswell theatre and cathedral to get to the bridge - one of the big problems on the IRR is at the bridge with the right turn filter lane, to go down the Quays coming from the Donegal side (ie travelling south), this causes problems with dodging and weaving and cutting in - they should have engineered this to have a proper filter lane and two lanes for through traffic (maybe by taking some of the very wide footpath on both sides of the bridge), I think it may have been possible with the width of the bridge; but despite the crap timing co-ordination of the traffic lights the movement of traffic along the IRR even at peak times makes the journey through Sligo much better - it makes life a lot easier for the employees of the hospital the IT and the pharma company whose name escapes me! up on the Enniskillen road, the three biggest employers in the town. At off peak times it can now take less than five minutes from Bridge to Balisodare - which is pretty dam good.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    History will prove that it saved people from well over 10 years of misery, any plan to dual Mullingar - Longford is well down the food chain .

    Sure Anglo is costing us over 2 years of road program ( ie €4bn) every 6 months.

    Absolutley - the Mullingar- Longford DC certainly is a long way off and the trucks would still be rattling through Edgworthstown as you say creating misery for the inhabitants for another decade, better have this now than still be waiting on a promise to build a DC, at least it keeps us moving - which is more than can be said for the poor inhabitants of Claregalway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 benralph


    westtip wrote: »
    I used the word "by-pass" in the loose send of the word and agree with what you have to say about the standard of planning - problem is planners work from planning text books and creating pretty pictures on PC screen using standard CAD software, they do not live in the real world and rarely speak to the great unwashed about planning decisions, if they did they would apply the CSR principle more (CSR = common Sense Reasoning) I also agree that if this hadn't gone ahead we would still be waiting for the western bypass (which is a much bigger and more difficult project) and would still be crawling past the Hawkswell theatre and cathedral to get to the bridge - one of the big problems on the IRR is at the bridge with the right turn filter lane, to go down the Quays coming from the Donegal side (ie travelling south), this causes problems with dodging and weaving and cutting in - they should have engineered this to have a proper filter lane and two lanes for through traffic (maybe by taking some of the very wide footpath on both sides of the bridge), I think it may have been possible with the width of the bridge; but despite the crap timing co-ordination of the traffic lights the movement of traffic along the IRR even at peak times makes the journey through Sligo much better - it makes life a lot easier for the employees of the hospital the IT and the pharma company whose name escapes me! up on the Enniskillen road, the three biggest employers in the town. At off peak times it can now take less than five minutes from Bridge to Balisodare - which is pretty dam good.



    Absolutley - the Mullingar- Longford DC certainly is a long way off and the trucks would still be rattling through Edgworthstown as you say creating misery for the inhabitants for another decade, better have this now than still be waiting on a promise to build a DC, at least it keeps us moving - which is more than can be said for the poor inhabitants of Claregalway.

    i agree, cant stand bypasses with loads of roundabouts! Co.Donegal seems to be in love with roundabouts, 3 on bundoran-ballyshannon bypass, 2 on donegal town bypass! several on letterkenny dual carriageway, & about 5 on the N13 road to derry at bridgend etc..... Mayo have proper bypasses, take the 16km N17 claremorris-knock bypass, not 1 roundabout! 18km N5 charlestown bypass has not 1 roundabout!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    benralph wrote: »
    i agree, cant stand bypasses with loads of roundabouts! Co.Donegal seems to be in love with roundabouts, 3 on bundoran-ballyshannon bypass, 2 on donegal town bypass! several on letterkenny dual carriageway, & about 5 on the N13 road to derry at bridgend etc..... Mayo have proper bypasses, take the 16km N17 claremorris-knock bypass, not 1 roundabout! 18km N5 charlestown bypass has not 1 roundabout!

    Guess whats going to top this? The Tralee Bypass is 2+2 which will consist of 6 at-grade roundabouts and 1 compact grade separated junction.

    Its the most ridiculous looking bypass too
    http://cms.kerrycoco.ie/en/allservices/planning/planspolicies/kerrylocaldevelopmentplan2003/localdevelopmentplancontents/maps/thefile,464,en.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    westtip wrote: »
    one of the big problems on the IRR is at the bridge with the right turn filter lane, to go down the Quays coming from the Donegal side (ie travelling south), this causes problems with dodging and weaving and cutting in - they should have engineered this to have a proper filter lane and two lanes for through traffic (maybe by taking some of the very wide footpath on both sides of the bridge)

    I agree that is the worst point of the IRR, I reckon that bridge could be expanded to 3 lanes southbound to accommodate a right turn just after passing the ghost island for the N16 on the northbound side? There is no advanced lane sign either which I see often motorists trying to get back into the left lane again causing traffic to slow down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Tralee doesnt need a HQDC bypass with GSJs everywhere. 2+2 with roundabouts is fine. Just because they're building (or thinking of building) new roads doesnt mean it all has to be M standard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    No one is asking for it,

    I do still think it needs on or two grade separated interchanges for the national route traffic. Tralee is one of the biggest towns in Ireland with a high grade of tourist traffic going through it. I cannot stand roads riddled with to many roundabouts it makes people avoid the bypass. When you have 5/6 roundabouts and a straight through road, which road are you going to use??

    The Enfield bypass was the same in this respect half the traffic still went through the town.



    Any update on going ahead with the Adare bypass?? It needs to start NOW. We need to build this. Traffic is chronic going through the town. The N21 has got no attention in nearly two decades apart from the Abbeyfeale Castleisland upgrade. The Adare bypass has DC traffic going down its street and has higher traffic than most interurbans.



    The list in priority


    • Proper upgrade of Newlands separating traffic local and national.Meaning Distrubuter road from Citywest to Luas p + R. This will remove LILOS, dangerous merges, Private acesses, and free up the mainline.


    • Adare bypass and M20 Phase 1

    • Gort to Rathmorrisey

    • NCW bypass
    • N11 Arklow to Ashford dualing.
    • N5 Longford Bypass
    • Thurles ring road
    • N77 upgrade
    • New Ross bypass


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    mysterious wrote: »


    The list in priority


    • Proper upgrade of Newlands separating traffic local and national.Meaning Distrubuter road from Citywest to Luas p + R. This will remove LILOS, dangerous merges, Private acesses, and free up the mainline.


    • Adare bypass and M20 Phase 1

    • Gort to Rathmorrisey

    • NCW bypass
    • N11 Arklow to Ashford dualing.
    • N5 Longford Bypass
    • Thurles ring road
    • N77 upgrade
    • New Ross bypass

    Have to agree with this list. The Longford bypass N5 could not surely cost an awful lot and would be such a return/benefit on the investment.
    I'm glad you see the N77 as a priority ;). Such a god awful Secondary route in some sections. And witrh milk lorries from Glanbia evey few minutes.Adare is also an awful place at times and considering it is a tourist showpiece, shameful it was not bypassed yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    The M20 has been bumped so the Galway Outer Bypass can be built under the PPP schemes. (Its still in the courts so who knows what will happen).

    Since the Adare bypass is tacked onto the M20 now, who knows what will happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Have to agree with this list. The Longford bypass N5 could not surely cost an awful lot and would be such a return/benefit on the investment.
    I'm glad you see the N77 as a priority ;). Such a god awful Secondary route in some sections. And witrh milk lorries from Glanbia evey few minutes.Adare is also an awful place at times and considering it is a tourist showpiece, shameful it was not bypassed yet.


    Well I want the N77 extended onto the R434 to the M7/M8 junctions. Since there is slip roads for this road. I would like to see The west and Limerick regions use the M7 towards Carlow and Kilkenny.

    I also want the R504 road as Johnstown upgraded and joint onto the N77 So the Cork M8 can use this alignment for Kilkenny.



    We need to integrated our secondary roads into the new interurban network now as our road network will be radically different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Tralee doesnt need a HQDC bypass with GSJs everywhere. 2+2 with roundabouts is fine. Just because they're building (or thinking of building) new roads doesnt mean it all has to be M standard.

    Never said I wanted a HQDC which is way overkill. Actually there should be no more motorway builds after the PPP's are done. Once the Galway Outer Bypass, M17/M18, M11, Newlands Cross and M20 are done that is it caput. We will have enough as the country will need to focus more on Public transport mainly rail.

    6 roundabouts is taking the p*ss seriously and I know Tralee very well to know that is not going to cut it. Very congested especially near manor west where developments have caused too much congestion. It doesnt even link the N86 probably the most important link IMO especially during the summer months.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Are they grade separating the CastleIsland bypass on the Limerick side.


    It should be done like other bypasses, Rathkeale, Claremorris, Knock, Mullingar etc.

    The less roundabouts the ****ing better. We have enough of them. it's lazy road building. That's what it is. Too many roundabouts on bypasses are just a nucance. Leave all these roundabouts to funfairs. Meanwhile let's focus on building proper roads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    No one is asking for it,

    I do still think it needs on or two grade separated interchanges for the national route traffic. Tralee is one of the biggest towns in Ireland with a high grade of tourist traffic going through it. I cannot stand roads riddled with to many roundabouts it makes people avoid the bypass. When you have 5/6 roundabouts and a straight through road, which road are you going to use??

    I have noticed over the last few months how summer traffic can really jam up a town like Tralee very bad. Probably wont be done for another 10-15 years so they could get the CAD software back out and get it redesigned. No roundabouts for the N70, N86 and N69 as well ffs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    Are they grade separating the CastleIsland bypass on the Limerick side.


    It should be done like other bypasses, Rathkeale, Claremorris, Knock, Mullingar etc.

    The less roundabouts the ****ing better. We have enough of them. it's lazy road building. That's what it is. Too many roundabouts on bypasses are just a nucance. Leave all these roundabouts to funfairs. Meanwhile let's focus on building proper roads.

    No grade separated junction will be built on the Castleisland bypass. A nice big roundabout is being constructed on the Tralee end of the town at the moment. I'm impressed with the progress so far.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Since the Adare bypass is tacked onto the M20 now, who knows what will happen.

    I find it odd that many posters that use the N21 don't complain about that shambolic planned bypass which really isn't going to be beneficial to N21 traffic :confused: This is the only part of the N21 I want to see HQDC to south of Adare.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭leitrim lad


    its a bit of a let down that you can get to every major town or city in the country via dual carrageway or motorway, and once you get asfar as westmeath, the nra forgot about us ,whats wrong with the west ,northwest,

    fair enough we got the dromad rooskey bypass, i had machinery on it,in the construction stage,

    but come on a 2 plus 2 in the middle of leitrim with no decent road either side is the same putting an ashtray on a motorbike,

    great thinking on the nras behalh, what about this great n4 we were all told about motorway the whole way to sligo.

    and the carrick on shannon bypass, where did that disapear to, sunk did it,

    or even the longford town bypass, did someone forget us over here


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,396 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    its a bit of a let down that you can get to every major town or city in the country via dual carrageway or motorway, and once you get asfar as westmeath, the nra forgot about us ,whats wrong with the west ,northwest,

    fair enough we got the dromad rooskey bypass, i had machinery on it,in the construction stage,

    but come on a 2 plus 2 in the middle of leitrim with no decent road either side is the same putting an ashtray on a motorbike,

    great thinking on the nras behalh, what about this great n4 we were all told about motorway the whole way to sligo.

    and the carrick on shannon bypass, where did that disapear to, sunk did it,

    or even the longford town bypass, did someone forget us over here

    I don't see the need for M-way all the way to Sligo. I don't think the volumes would justify it. In fairness it is for the most part a good quality S2 road. In fact, far better than roads like thew N24,N20, and indeed much of the current N9 and indeed N11. So I don't buy this "forgotten whest" line.

    Longford is bypassed on the N4 at least. And I found the N4 either side of the Dromad bypass a high quality road. Good wide sections, with decent head shoulder all the way and plenty of overtaking oppurtunities.


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