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Towns still waiting for a bypass

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    monument wrote:
    That's not something a ring road/bypass would fix.




    Out on their Sunday drive?

    No a ring road would not solve the problems of the N59, from Ballina to Sligo - the Ballina - Dromore West Section is notably dangerous with numerous blind summits as you probably know. A ring road though would hugely alleviate the congestion in Ballina, and more importantly take the HGVs out of the town.

    Re those using the N59 to connect with N4 - it is a bit fecitious to say out on their sunday drive, you are no doubt aware of the crap state of the N26 still despite the piffling effort to improve it which stops just short of Foxford and the still crap state of the N5, which has to be one of the most dangerous national routes, although it will improve over the next year or two. These two issues force drivers to route via the N4. The volume of commercial traffic on the N59 is quite significant these days and passing an artic on most sections of this road is hell raising - and in the rain which we get quite a bit of up here it is a horrendous road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    MG wrote:
    On the N25 between Waterford and Cork Castlemartyr, Killeagh and Kilmeaden (?? am I thinking of the wrong village). If these were bypassed there would be a reasonably good road all the way from Waterford to Cork, albeit a mixture of DC, 2+1 and mixed quality single lane roads. There can be horrible bottlenecks on these at times.

    As Mike said Kilmeaden will be part of the Waterford CIty Bypass currently under construction. Dungarvan of the many roundabouts has a planned Outer Bypass but is suspended due to the finding of a rare Fern. At times it can take an age to get through this town


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    not according to page 5 of this study
    http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/file,1403,en.PDF
    However while I'm not saying that Taoiseach Elect Enda Kenny will put local issues ahead of national issues, but I think the N59 will somehow get the funding ahead of more dangerous roads highlighted on page 5 of this study.

    such is the influence of having a minister in your constituency you may well be right, and from a selfish point of view I would probably say and thank goodness too, although I don't agree with this kind of parish pump politics, the map on the next page of the report does nevertheless show the N59 as a medium to high risk road for fatalities, not an acceptable situation - just as the situation is not acceptable on the high risk roads, but we shall continue to rant and rave and perhaps something might be done eh.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    westtip wrote:
    No a ring road would not solve the problems of the N59,...

    Yeah, that's what I said.
    westtip wrote:
    ...from Ballina to Sligo - the Ballina - Dromore West Section is notably dangerous with numerous blind summits as you probably know...

    Re those using the N59 to connect with N4 - it is a bit fecitious to say out on their sunday drive, you are no doubt aware of the crap state of the N26 still despite the piffling effort to improve it which stops just short of Foxford and the still crap state of the N5, which has to be one of the most dangerous national routes, although it will improve over the next year or two. These two issues force drivers to route via the N4

    The volume of commercial traffic on the N59 is quite significant these days and passing an artic on most sections of this road is hell raising - and in the rain which we get quite a bit of up here it is a horrendous road.

    With the volume of traffic and the state of the N59, and that it's such a detour, I’m still doubtful that there’s so many drivers using the N4 vie the N59 from Ballina. Maybe I’m wrong. How do the times compare etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    mysterious wrote:
    It would be wise to go with a DC past Adare. The new road won't be starting for at least another 2yrs. By then traffic levels would require a DC.

    The detailed design will not occur till 2008. I reckon by then DC will be the choice.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    jank wrote:
    I keep hearing that alright, DC as Part of the Atlantic corridor and as a main Link to Waterford/Rosslare it should but i cant find it written anywhere or a timetable where it will be DC.
    There is a text report on the cork co co website which seems to indicate that the stage is split into 3 parts with a different cross section considered for each. I believe they may have considered DC for the first part and WS2 for the rest. But then I think 2+1 wasnt really on the agenda at thie time of the report.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    monument wrote:
    Yeah, that's what I said.



    With the volume of traffic and the state of the N59, and that it's such a detour, I’m still doubtful that there’s so many drivers using the N4 vie the N59 from Ballina. Maybe I’m wrong. How do the times compare etc?

    Sure didn't I agree with you on the ring road, I just think it would be a huge benefit for Ballina (and many other towns of course) I think the time (to Dublin) via the N59 is about 3 hours with a wet sail, a bit longer on the N26 route largely due to the number of towns you curently have to go through Longford being the worst delay. I drove to Sligo tonight from Enniscrone on the N59, the traffic was very heavy coming form the Sligo direction, it was between 5 and 6 so maybe to be expected but there is now a significant amount of commuter traffic on the N59 coming from places like Enniscrone, Easkey, Dromore West, Skreen etc going to Sligo everyday, and it is heavily used by HGVs and local commercial and agricultural traffic, whichif it where upgraded to wide single lane would make passing easier - it is a dangerous road and its poor state is well known in this neck of the woods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭ 1huge1


    trap4 wrote:
    I could be wrong but I believe Adare is now getting DC? And with the Castleisland bypass going ahead soon (?) I agree that Newcastlewest and Abbefeale are going to be major bottlenecks on the N21.
    thats interesting adare getting a dc were did you hear that? i agree though traffic is terrible there


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 468 ✭✭ trap4


    Can't remember where I saw it (or heard it?) and its driving me mad. Could have been the Limerick Leader but not sure. So don't quote me on it.... d'oh... you already did :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭✭✭ Cian R


    Add Ferns and Camolin on the N11 to that list- the traffic there especially in Ferns is deadly in the mornings since the Gorey bypass opened.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,772 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Newcastle Co. Dublin has a bypass planned which will take traffic from the R120 at Greenogue crossing the bottom of Aylmer Road and heading across the fields to emerge on the R120 at Peamount Hospital, the intention to take N7->Celbridge/Lucan bound traffic away from the village main street. No sign of it materialising of course and I reckon it'll be long fingered.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    1huge1 wrote: »
    thats interesting adare getting a dc were did you hear that? i agree though traffic is terrible there


    2+1 schemes that were and are under planning have been scrapped for 2+2 schemes instead. Reason, it's actually cost saving in the long run, just to put in the other lane, the land required is the same for both schemes anyhu.

    But speaking on the Adare scheme, i think it will be HQDC Imo. They wil probably just extend the N21 DC further south with the spec of HQDC just for the sake of another 7 miles or so.... I don't imagine they will repeat the downs N4 Scheme where it's 2+2 standard. Now they are going back to replace the at grades to Grade separated interchanges. Traffic levels are simalar for both schemes. So I do think the NRA should take this into consideration.

    The road carries 17,000 vehicles a day. When it's finished in 3 years or so, If they actually started next year. Traffic will be close to 20,000 A.A.D.T


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,236 Sponge Bob


    The disaster that is Claregalway and to a much lesser extent Barna, Athenry ( north) and Clarinbridge all of which are in County Galway and all of which need simple at grade inner bypasses like Claregalway does irrespective of any major road plans in their vicinity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    What kind of DC is going between Croom and Mallow. I doubt it will be HQDC, I don't think that's important, as standard DC would be fine.

    Well, we now know it's going to be motorway.

    But motorway doesn't have to be HQDC as we've seen from the Cashel Bypass and Nenagh Bypass.

    Tbh I don't really see too much of a difference between HQDC and standard Type 1 DC in this country anyway.

    I think standard DC will do the trick here too, but I'd say they'll build the whole M20 route as HQDC.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,150 E92


    I would imagine its only existing DCs that have been reclassified to Motorways that may not be the full HQDC spec.

    I would imagine that any future Motorways will be built to the same standard as the narrow median Motorways that have been recently opened like the M8 schemes i.e. the proper spec.

    Hence I would expect that whenever the M20 does eventually get built it will be the same standard as all the roads that were Motorways before the re-classification came in.

    It would be incredibly short sighted to have LILOs, shorter entrance ramps etc on any new roads due to be built IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Well, I hope they keep the motorway build standard relatively high.

    I don't want the fact that some of our motorways now have those low-spec junctions to mean a reduction in build standard.

    I also hope emergency phones are making a comeback, because I haven't seen them on any recent schemes except the Fermoy bypass. (But that may be due to the fact the others schemes were built as HQDC and then redesignated AFTER construction, where as the Fermoy bypass was M DURING construction).


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,822 ✭✭✭ SeanW


    cor wrote: »
    Longford is already by-passed. You no longer have to go through the town.

    Was in Ballina last weekend and there was a queue to get in to the town due to the new traffic restriction (not being able to go straight towards the cathedral when coming from Sligo direction) imo.
    Yes, Longford is bypassed - on the N4. Not the N5, which still weaves its way through the town centre.

    Try driving down Ballymahon St. in the town on a Friday afternoon surrounded by lorries and MO registered cars, then tell me the town is "bypassed."

    The now cancelled (oops "deferred" from now until never-nevertime) N5 bypass to go ahead next year was to involve 2.6km of single carriageway through green field. Total cost would have been ~€12m and would have alleviated much of a massive traffic problem in the area.

    Now, you'd think that after closing our barracks and taking all these other measures, that they'd be able to afford it - in particular with all the excess construction capacity now available - but I suppose de-centralisation, storing the e-Voting machines, property developers bailouts and a toll free Motorway to Martin Cullen's constituency are all more important. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,492 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    SeanW wrote: »
    a toll free Motorway to Martin Cullen's constituency are all more important. :mad:

    A bit like when Albert was Taoiseach and the N4 bypass of Longford was opened.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭ rameire


    athy was supposed to get a bypass about 20 years ago and a new bridge over the barrow.
    but the locals said the town didnt want it or need it, so it wasnt built.
    so now its like the m50, and now all the locals are complaining that a bypass has never been built.
    but nothing will be built or designed for many years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,492 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    rameire wrote: »
    athy was supposed to get a bypass about 20 years ago and a new bridge over the barrow.
    but the locals said the town didnt want it or need it, so it wasnt built.
    .

    You are joking right? I presume there was some legitimate reason, no? Perhaps the town centre businesses kicked up a fuss? That was quite common in the not too decent past.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    Can I ask, Why is the N21 not getting any attention in the last god knows how many years.

    I know the road near Tralee was upgraded, but it's only a short few km of S2 lane road. The Newcastlewest bypass has been proposed years ago. The chronic conjestion in the town now matches the pre M7 Kildare days. 12,000 vehicles trundle through the town with a bridge that can barely fit trucks on it.:eek: Castleisland and Abbeyfeale need relief too. It just not acceptable for the people who use this route everyday. The main route to Kerry and the southwest is in dire need of proper infastructure.

    Adare and Newcastlewest are infamous bottlenecks. They are just as well known as Mountrath the likes. But never gets a mention:confused:


    There are too many towns on this route that need a bypass. It's ludricous and crazy to not look at this road !


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,236 Sponge Bob


    The Castleisland bypass is not on the cancellation list announced after the budget and therefore it may actually go ahead in the next year or so ..

    You can forget about Adare Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest for a long long time .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The Castleisland bypass is not on the cancellation list announced after the budget and therefore it may actually go ahead in the next year or so ..

    You can forget about Adare Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest for a long long time .


    I'd love to see the Adare bypass built as motorway standard at the same time as the northern section of the proposed M20 as they are side by sdie, but I doubt that will happen..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The Castleisland bypass is not on the cancellation list announced after the budget and therefore it may actually go ahead in the next year or so ..

    You can forget about Adare Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest for a long long time .


    Well when the economy picks up (which it will) :) These road projects will be on the cards I'm sure.

    Adare has a good chance of starting before 2012. This is from what NRA said anyhu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭ 1huge1


    mysterious wrote: »
    Well when the economy picks up (which it will) :) These road projects will be on the cards I'm sure.

    Adare has a good chance of starting before 2012. This is from what NRA said anyhu.
    Love the optimism


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    nordydan wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Adare bypass built as motorway standard at the same time as the northern section of the proposed M20 as they are side by sdie, but I doubt that will happen..

    Nordydan, glad you mentioned the M- status actually.

    If the M20 goes ahead soon, they could actually incoporate the M21 spur from Adare quite easily. Plus the fact the N21 leads to a motorway, it could may well become a reality anyhu.

    The M20 freeflowing interchange, will actually come very close to Adare itself, so I think the Adare bypass should be incoporated into it.

    Like how they have done the M7/M8 Portloaise section where both roads split further out at it's new location aghaboe rather than the existing togher interchange. The old N21/N20 interchange splits at Patrickswell at present. It will now split further south.

    I really think NRA should go with this, as it would be benificial to both the M20 and possilbe M21 users and The surrounding towns that need bypassing such as Adare. This should be built as one scheme IMO. It's cost effective too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭ mackerski


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    But motorway doesn't have to be HQDC as we've seen from the Cashel Bypass and Nenagh Bypass.

    Tbh I don't really see too much of a difference between HQDC and standard Type 1 DC in this country anyway.

    I think you've answered your own point here - we keep reciting the received truth about the Cashel Bypass not having been built as HQDC - in fact, people were convinced that this stigma would prevent the motorway speed limit from applying - but I've never found the logic compelling. When built, it had a roundabout at either end and no proper junctions, so not a lot of characteristics that you could call HQ.

    But those roundabouts are gone now, and the yellow lines are now continuous. Do we think that the carriageways lack the magical asphalt that the NRA holds in reserve for HQDCs?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    mackerski wrote: »
    I think you've answered your own point here - we keep reciting the received truth about the Cashel Bypass not having been built as HQDC - in fact, people were convinced that this stigma would prevent the motorway speed limit from applying - but I've never found the logic compelling. When built, it had a roundabout at either end and no proper junctions, so not a lot of characteristics that you could call HQ.

    But those roundabouts are gone now, and the yellow lines are now continuous. Do we think that the carriageways lack the magical asphalt that the NRA holds in reserve for HQDCs?

    As far as I'm aware the Cashel bypass was built as a standard DC.

    The curves and design speed is designed for 100kph.

    I don't really know for sure, as the Cashel bypass doesn't seem to curve that much anyhu.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Well, we now know it's going to be motorway.

    But motorway doesn't have to be HQDC as we've seen from the Cashel Bypass and Nenagh Bypass.

    Tbh I don't really see too much of a difference between HQDC and standard Type 1 DC in this country anyway.

    I think standard DC will do the trick here too, but I'd say they'll build the whole M20 route as HQDC.

    AFAIK, a Type 1 DC as opposed to a HQDC would involve either at grade roundabouts or compact GSJs with LILOs. If for example the Ennis Bypass is reclassified and not physically modified, then one can only imagine that a 100kph limit would have to apply. This would make quite a farce of a motorway designation IMO. :(

    However, I saw the plans for services on the Gorey Bypass which involves a compact GSJ with the mainline. However, two of the ramps (loop side) are much more trumpet like (more gentle curves) than the LILO equivalents on the Ennis Bypass. The other two ramps (services side) use a verge side roundabout which would allow much straighter (and safer IMO) merging and diverging with mainline traffic. I wonder if this is a new type of compact GSJ to be used, particularly on motorways such as the M18 Gort to Crusheen scheme. Furthermore, I wonder if the GSJs on the Ennis Bypass are to be modified to same upon reclassification.

    Maybe the full GSJs will be used where design year traffic levels would warrant same. However, once the entry and exit to the mainline itself is safe with motorway speeds involved, compact GSJs should be OK. However, I wouldn't see traditional LILOs in the same category, especially when there's an omission of the hard shoulder at the triangle.

    With the above said, we'll just have to wait and see what happens!

    Regards!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The Castleisland bypass is not on the cancellation list announced after the budget and therefore it may actually go ahead in the next year or so ..

    You can forget about Adare Abbeyfeale and Newcastlewest for a long long time .
    I was under the impression that it was?

    Edit: Yeah just checked, Castleisland bypass is on the chop list.


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