Why I hate GW - *Rant Warning*

ACW

Don't be disheartened Warmaster, you can't please all of the people all of the time and we can't be held accountable for the actions of other staff members.

I had a great time working for GW, got 100s if not 1000s of people into the hobby, made tons of like minded and crazy friends, met some of closest friends and one very special lady.

All in all I have had a great experiance with Games Workshop.

Jazzy

thats the thing, when i played i liked the staff. i liked talking to them and i used to know a few of them pretty well. the original manager of the liffey st. store (graham wasnt it? northern irish guy) and dillon were sound as a pound and i used to have great banter discussing tactics and all that.
but i can completely see where others on this thread are coming from. the whole "new best friend" approach could be really creepy and fake and i used to feel really sorry for the parents as it is a very expensive and time consuming hobby.

i dont necessarily think that anyone on the thread "hates" GW per se but are just expressing how they really feel about some of the approaches used, heck they are probably frustrated because they fell for it too... i know i did to an extent.

one thing that annoyed me back in the day has been brought up here and that is the in-shop games. as in there was a guy a few pages back who had his army killed in one turn by a random orbital bombardment. same thing used to happen all the time, to make the battles more fair for the n00bs the staff just used to make up stuff to try and even the playing field. i can see where they are coming from as if little jonny gets whomped he wont be happy and might not come back to buy those assault marines.... but it was a little dumb when u were playing against someone who knew their stuff and the staff intervene and f**k up the game.


the incident i posted at the top of this page was just really disappointing. i just felt let down by something i used to love. its sorta like, fine if u are going to treat me like a walking wallet then i cba getting back into this.

ACW

Not saying it was ever perfect. Just had to say my piece.

Jaysoose

ACW wrote: »

As for the price issue at till. Did you point out the difference to the staff member? If you did and they didn't change it, I would urge you to chase up your complaint, company policy is to sell for stickered price.

You obviously didnt read the thread that well and just glossed over the info so here you go....

Was in the blanch store on sunday and picked a skaven figure for my bro's crimbo present, the box had 20 euro on it but it scanned for 22.50....manager guy wouldnt even look at me and wouldnt discount it.

Customer care at its finest as the manager pointed out that it was company policy to stick to the till prices.....hmmm.

Doesnt matter as i brought the item back and got a refund, wont be getting a penny off me.

Jazzy

id say ur bro had a great xmas then. all for the sake of 2.50

Jaysoose

Jazzy wrote: »

id say ur bro had a great xmas then. all for the sake of 2.50

Got him something else...crimbo was good all round thanks. Maybe i can donate you the 2.50 and you can buy yourself some pills for that nasty rash of yours, ya smartarse:D

Lemming

Jayroose takes a week off for abuse. Congratulations on being the first person I've had to ban on this forum for abuse, and for being the second person I've ever had to ban from this forum - also from this thread.

I'm tempted to lock this thread, so please show some behaviour from this point on folks (not that most of you haven't thus far). If I see anything of an abusive or defamatory nature - either borderline or blatant - there will be bannings.

ACW

I apologise if I said anything out of turn Lemming.

tororosso

You can order their stuff online and have it delivered to the GW stores in Dublin which means you pay the cheaper price for the same products the Dublin stores are charging really high for!!:rolleyes:

But it still means going in and being annoyed by abnormal sales techniques:eek:

muboop1

Lemming wrote: »

Jayroose takes a week off for abuse. Congratulations on being the first person I've had to ban on this forum for abuse, and for being the second person I've ever had to ban from this forum - also from this thread.

I'm tempted to lock this thread, so please show some behaviour from this point on folks (not that most of you haven't thus far). If I see anything of an abusive or defamatory nature - either borderline or blatant - there will be bannings.

bit unfair to ban him when you let Jazzy's comment go unchecked!

but regardless, i went into the store in liffey street about 3 weeks ago. i genuinely didnt feel comfortable!
i was a huge fan, had a small 40k marines army and a HUGE fantasy army, wood elves one was about 4k points wise including all the special characters etc(it was the old school wood elves to)
after that when they brought out a new edition of the game, i switched to empire troops, have a 5k army of them.

spent so damn much in that shop and got great fun out of it. i remember loving going to the games workshop on weekends and having great fun there

so when i entered the other day it was just out of curiosity, i wasnt interested in picking up the game again as due to college i havent the time.

so i went in and the guy's instantly approached me telling me about new offers etc... i talked to one briefly, and told him my situation, he didnt seem to care that i wasnt buying, he literally just wanted to push products on me. i never felt that in the past! i never felt it was a situation where i had to buy, it was always something fun!

i managed to shake off the guy, although only because a new customer came in and they were all rushing him with offers again, i quietly slinked out of the shop just praying to avoid there notice and pressure, i wont be going in there again for a very long time. most unenjoyable.

quozl

Muboop1, if you want to browse gamesworkshop stuff for nostalgia, without being bothered, then check out models inc on dorset street, near the o'connell street end.

I'm sure you'll be asked if you need any help, but they'll actually leave you alone if you say no.

Plus there's more impressive display tables.

I don't work for them, but Models Inc seems to be my answer to most GW related woes. I love the place

Warmaster

quozl wrote: »

Muboop1, if you want to browse gamesworkshop stuff for nostalgia, without being bothered, then check out models inc on dorset street, near the o'connell street end.

I'm sure you'll be asked if you need any help, but they'll actually leave you alone if you say no.

Plus there's more impressive display tables.

I don't work for them, but Models Inc seems to be my answer to most GW related woes. I love the place

I think this is the 3rd time I've seen you mention them now you really should work for them

to be fair to them they do a good deal, do they still do 10% off?

@ muboop: I love those old style wood elves!

quozl

think this is the 3rd time I've seen you mention them now you really should work for them

Heh, don't think I haven't considered it

I'm a member of the Dublin Games Guild, and The Underground Gamers - both clubs who have their club nights in MI. And living in a 1bed apartment with my fiancee getting out of the gaff is a necessity for both our sanity

It's a great resource for dublin gamers, and I hope it stays around!

They're still doing 10% off, going up to 20% if you spend 100 euros or more. Though that's just a january sales thing. The 10% off semi-permenant thing, I can't recall if it's still on-going, but they're always cheaper than GW anyway.

Mantel

20%... hmm, tempted to buy the bloodbowl box and a battleforce now... must... resist until next pay day.... maybe.

quozl

If you buy the bloodbowl boxset, check out the blood bowl ladder I run - http://bloodbowl-ireland.org

22 coaches and growing!

Phototoxin

so i went in and the guy's instantly approached me telling me about new offers etc... i talked to one briefly, and told him my situation, he didnt seem to care that i wasnt buying, he literally just wanted to push products on me. i never felt that in the past! i never felt it was a situation where i had to buy, it was always something fun!

i managed to shake off the guy, although only because a new customer came in and they were all rushing him with offers again, i quietly slinked out of the shop just praying to avoid there notice and pressure, i wont be going in there again for a very long time. most unenjoyable.

it was like when oblitorators came out everyone was oooh oblitorators... gonna buy an army just to have load of them. Its how they work... focusing on one uber cheese unit (that you can only have 1 or 2 of) to shine an army. Or expliant THEIR army from a SYSTEM YOU DONT PLAY in uber epic detail.
There's some american guy in dublin.. he's scary... wouldnt shut up about his cheesy deep strike daemon army of death... all I wanted was some paint... *goes catatonic*

Cy_Revenant

Phototoxin wrote: »

There's some american guy in dublin.. he's scary... wouldnt shut up about his cheesy deep strike daemon army of death... all I wanted was some paint... *goes catatonic*

I wouldn't put that down to GW, you'll get people like that everywhere.

By the way, have I told you about my massed markerlights.....?

Phototoxin

quozl wrote: »

They're still doing 10% off, going up to 20% if you spend 100 euros or more. Though that's just a january sales thing. The 10% off semi-permenant thing, I can't recall if it's still on-going, but they're always cheaper than GW anyway.

[snip]

(I thought I had a thread asking if it went well - well it has gone well!)

Lemming

Phototoxin wrote: »

(I thought I had a thread asking if it went well - well it has gone well!)

Phototoxin,

I asked in your thread as to whether or not you were affiliated to the "drogheda guys" in some manner since the content read an awful lot like shilling. I received no reply and deleted the threa giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I have edited your last post and I will ask the question again; Are you affliated to this site either as employee, supplier, friend/family of owner, etc.

You can either post here or PM me.

Phototoxin

I have edited your last post and I will ask the question again; Are you affliated to this site either as employee, supplier, friend/family of owner, etc.

no I dont employ them, suppliy them and as far as I am aware I am not related to any of them.

I have noticed other members heartily endorsing other companies/shops/groups.

I was just pointing this out and asked for feedback. However I can now give my own as I got some lizardman stuff there which was good

edit : I didn't see you asking and it just disappeared. Maybe a PM would be better next time.

Ichiro

Was just in the Blanch shop yestrday for Lunch - Christ almighty I felt like Ripley in the Aliens movie, they came from every where!
I had to keep saying I was just looking and boy they were persistant!
My mate legged it so I was left to fend for myself! Think he met his grizzly end in a lift like Carter, in Aliens!

I got out barely alive but with many of the overpriced items still in my head!
€12.50 for two figures - Not on my watch

Phototoxin

well I've just noticed that I can get 350 pts of warmachine from fleabay for 50yoyos. That's a big robot, a wizard, 5 dog bone robots and a wraith like thing called a scarlock. If privateer press dont become bellends they could well knock GW from their pedestal.

colt25

wow this thread really gives me flashbacks.
last time i was there i was like 13 but i still go at times to buy like the new starter kits never paint them lol but they were so dam pushy when i was there last time i was going to America in about week and i was saying i was starting a new imperial guard army and i was gonna buy the stuff in america it would be cheaper for me because of the currency exchange but the guy was like oh you should really buy it here you can get it all put together and painted sooner and stuff like that i was like ahh id rather save money and he still insisted but keep reaping its gonna be cheaper for me if i buy it in america he finally said oh ok fair enough.

another time when i was about 12 a good 3 years ago and ya know yeah think oh these gw dudes are so cool but itryed to reccomend something to a guy i said like 1 thing like thats worth your money or something but i kinda walked off and next thing i know my arm is grabbed and im turned around and the manager was like dont get into store affairs mate and stuff like that real angry like and said i might have to bar you next time you do that and im like oh jesus so scared what did i do? the guy was by himself and just reccomed the thing to him.

i started when i was 11 battle for macragge had just came out but i had a few wd's and read through them and i loved the orks and you know i went in they came up to me and my mother straight away can i help you and i was happy and impressed i told them i wanted to collect orcs so the guy goes over gets a ork battle force a rulebook a codex loads of paints some blisters and like two boxs of orks and i was like wow thats a pretty cool starting kit so ask how much is that ? he replies 300 and im like oh s**** and pause for a second and look around and see a oh a starting kit cool thats cheap and i say what about that and hes like oh yeah it comes with this and that and im satisfied with the starter kit but he trys to insist no this is better ya know ya a full army straight away but my mother aventually butts in and says he spent most of money on a ps2 or something so the guy gave in and i bought the starter set.

one thing i cant stand about that place is the no swearing that pisses me off... like you cant say anything i said **** one time in a normal tone of voice when i seen that one of my orks arm had broken off and once again i was threatend with the you'll be bared again if you swear again .... jesus

and the staff exploit the **** out of newbies who want to start and seen this kid walk in with his mother with his birthday money or something and they show him around for an hour and the guy aventually leaves with the tau battle force a hammerhead codex rule book hobby stuff etc the mother didnt look to happy that hed spent all his money in one place.my cousin was buying my birthday present there she wanted to buy me just a bsaic tank (sisters of battle) and ended up with the tank acro flaggent things the paint for the models a preist and inquister and retuine when i recived the present i was like holy s*** you really didnt have to buy me that much she replied the f***er's wouldnt p*** off they kept telling me you couldt use that model in a game with out this model..... cheap that was the first time and last id ever hear my cousin swear

and price....
enough said


sorry for the really long rant i know it sounds kind of childish but im just expressing my self well if you read this ty and i always like a bit of debate
if you dont agree with something i said.
sorry for the spelling mistakes couldnt be arsed correcting them thanks for listeing.....

- Jay your man from bray

Jazzy

Ichiro wrote: »

€12.50 for two figures - Not on my watch

sooooooo glad i gave it up now. thats just madness. i thought it was bad 10 years ago

Dartz

I have no idea what Colt25 just said. In all seriousness. I'm trying to figure it out. I mean seriously, about the only thing I could understand about your post was that you were complaining their No-swearing policy... which is a perfectly fine thing to have in a store where there will usually be minors present.

sorry for the spelling mistakes couldnt be arsed correcting them thanks for listeing...

If you won't take the time to bother composing your post, then how do you expect us to want to take the time to read them, comprehend them and compose a response?

Anyway,

In my experience, GW staff are nice enough. I think I've said as much, somewhere, maybe here. I mean, a staffer in Belfast told me a good place to get a good breakfast fry when I was after going up on the bus, on an empty stomache. They do try to sell you stuff, but that's their job, you can't begrudge them that.

No different from a car dealership really. And the same advice holds. Go in knowing what you want. Go in knowing your budget. And if you have a problem, go in remembering that a bit of civility will get you a lot my than effing and blinding like a bloody idiot. A friendly attitude and a smile works both ways.

Even if you go into to buy a book (Pretty much the only thing I actually buy there now, aside from the odd blister on a whim, though I did sort of promise to pick up a Shadowsword when it came out), and end up buying a pot of paint.

I asked a staffer about the prices difference between NI and Dublin, and 'if he'd be able to help me out and save me a trip' when I was looking to buy a large amount of stuff. He was polite about it, and pretty much said that I'd have to go to Belfast, his hands were tied. I mean, he listened to me, and didn't chase me out the door like some Irish retailers would if you asked them to move on their prices.

irishthump

Dartz wrote: »

I have no idea what Colt25 just said. In all seriousness. I'm trying to figure it out.

I have to agree....

Colt25, can you please try to make your posts a little more legible?
It seems like you might have something worth reading, but I nearly gave myself an aneurysm trying to read your post.

DonalB

Snipped from a longer post I wrote that went way off subject so I posted it separately:

"I started with ACW and his comment;
"Games Workshop produces the best plastic miniatures in the world bar none".

Looking back at 28 years of watching Citadel/GW, they were always expensive, compared to smaller companies in the same space. That said they also did a lot of good in the early days , or should I say the 80s, especially the early White Dwarf.
However I would say that in the early 90s the (price) difference became more exaggerated and the relative difference to other companies became greater, to the extent that, all other issues aside, I could see no justification for it (the price).
Compare a GW plastic kit to an equivalent mainstream plastic kit (tank/aircraft etc). Given GW positioning itself as a global brand, with a commensurate dedicated distribution channel, the discrepancy in prices cannot be easily explained except in one area, the age and knowledge of the target market.
I recently bought a model of a early 20th century aircraft for a planned diorama (I know nothing about aircraft modelling), from the single owner producer in Alaska. He included copious photocopied handwritten notes on the assembly and history of the craft and its use in Alaska. It cost me, I think, e15 plus shipping. You all know this. I wasn't paying him on the model kit to subsidize some magazine, expensive retail outlet, model museum in another country etc.
GW helped bring a particular style of mini sculpting to the market. It is a type of hyper-detailed and exaggerated style, now widely in vogue. One of the symptoms of it has been the scale creep over the last 20 years. Companies like Confrontation, Reaper, etc have many of the same features.
Other companies have a quality of sculpting that is as high but utterly different. Mithril is a company that always come to mind as an example of a more naturalistic/realistic style, as is the noted mini sculptor Tom Maier.
(but I've been out of the area for a long time so I'm not an expert)

Things Citadel did that I particularly disliked were; the aforementioned scale creep,as it seemed a cynical way of deliberately making entire mini collections redundant as Warhammer & 40K went through their early 2nd & 3rd edition updates; another is the exorbitant prices charged for accessories (poor quality paint, yes, poor) and rebadging tools under their own label and selling them to gullible kids. For example e14 for sculpting tools when an entire set of 12 Rolson sculpting tools, including that one tool is about e14 or their continued implication that Green Stuff is a GW product ? Those examples are plain dishonest.
Of course honesty has little to do with business (for many), but the control of an enforced idealised standard, the Golden Demons, allied with a single "voice" (White Dwarf), while disallowing any public discussion of something that is supposed to be interactive indicates a deliberate effort to manipulate their primarily young customers. It would be no surprise that most of those espousing anti-GW sentiment here are older, more knowing and confident.

It's a mistake I once made to think someone else's imagination was "better". It saddens but does not surprise me to see it perpetuated. Personal imagination is an incredibly powerful and valuable lifelong asset. We all have it to some extent or other but GW actually hinders rather than fosters its development through their rigidly enforced standards.
It seems to me, with at least the benefit of more time watching/ involved in model making than most, that Games Workshop significantly raised the production and sculpting bar but it and many of its cloned competitors espouse and practice a restriction and even an industrialisation and commodification of imagination.

Regards

Jazzy

probably one of the best posts ive read on boards in some years.

good job DonalB

DonalB

Thanks Jazzy. Glad to know someone appreciates some effort put in. I also agree that for someone to write words like “I couldn't be arsed correcting my post” is insulting to the intended recipients and therefore should be ignored.

That aside, there is another important problem with GW I meant to mention that I forgot to add.
Fascism. The evolution of WK40k contains an overt and explicit fascist stance. I hesitate to say message, as I doubt the designers sat down and said “let's portray a National Socialist future” but that doesn't excuse the end result.

What is does display at the very least is an ignorance of semiotics. We are all responsible for the hidden as well as the overt messages of our words. 40K is a progression from Judge Dredd, who's writers early on acknowledged his fascism, indeed that was the point (Alan Moore as I recall from mid 80s) and possibly sprang from the same wellspring, though JD wasn't intended to glorify fascism.
An aspirational future where pure Aryan genetically pure warriors defend the home world, using and allying where necessary with miscegenated lesser species? Tell me I'm wrong & I'll show 20 years of GW publications that prove I'm not.
Much SciFi in the 60s & early 70s displayed this same tendency (a lot still does, John Scalzi is the worst recent perpetrator I've seen), to portray a white (US) derived imperialistic future. It was answered in one searing book, Norman Spinrad's “Iron Dream”, which I would love to be required reading for every young SciFi reader/gamer.
I typed “warhammer 40k “& “fascism “ into google. One of the first results was stormfront.org a white power website where they were lauding 40k for it's fascist design, they had a forum allocated to it. The games designers aren't responsible for Stormfront and it's use of 40k, but they are responsible for the ammunition they've given them, and much worse, the message they give kids.

“Ah, but it's just a gaaaaaaaaaameeeee” I hear you wail, as you fade into the distance.

Lemming

DonalB wrote: »

“Ah, but it's just a gaaaaaaaaaameeeee” I hear you wail, as you fade into the distance.

But they're right at the same time Donal. A game is just a game. But when is it not a game? When is religion not religion and transcending the barriers into racial hatred? When is love obsession, etc. etc.

I mean, prime example (since we're mentioning "that" site); the swastika is, in its true form a buddhist icon. German National-Socialism took that that icon, inverted it and then proceeded to pervert its meaning. So much so that people immediately think "oh evil evil eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil!!" when they see anything that looks like a swastika (inverted or not inverted; one very much is an icon of evil, the other is not). Anything can be a symbol if you want it to be, no matter how benign or twisted your reasoning.

Anyway; on a moderator note I would appreciate it if people did not discuss overtly political themes on this forum. It [miniature gaming] is after all fantasy. I'll let people wrap up this particular area of discussion in the next couple of posts since I have also posted my thoughts before requesting it be discouraged. Secondly, I would also request that people avoid discussing or mentioning StormFront. It - and its ... inhabitants ... has no association with GW, W40k, or Miniature Gaming. Period.