ALDI Graduate Area Manager... Am I mad?

damnyanks

60 hours a week isn't a lot to be honest. More then 40 hours (Obviously )

they give you all the perks for a reason.

dame

I got offered the job with Lidl and was told by the boss it'd be 48-60 hours a week. I didn't take it. Great money and undoubtedly a great opportunity but I reckoned I'd get burnt out.

I went to the interview for Area Manager for Aldi too (mostly out of curiosity and to see if I'd get offered it too) but got a PFO.

polaco

dame wrote:

I got offered the job with Lidl and was told by the boss it'd be 48-60 hours a week. I didn't take it. Great money and undoubtedly a great opportunity but I reckoned I'd get burnt out.

I went to the interview for Area Manager for Aldi too (mostly out of curiosity and to see if I'd get offered it too) but got a PFO.

How long did wait for reply I mean after you had a group interview you went for 1-2-1 how long was that between first interview and second one

dame

It was about two weeks later, not very long but I think I'd had a letter within a week. I can't remember exactly as it was last year.

Also like to add that Lidl Area Managers cover 4-6 stores while Aldi cover 3. If I had the choice of either I'd go for Aldi.

Drapper

both are horrible to work for!

same number of stores for 3 years but always looking for staff = high turn over in people = low retention rate!

polaco

anybody know what is salary for deputy manager in Lidl and how long you have to work in that role to get to next stage store manager??
Thanks

jetsonx

polaco wrote:

same number of stores for 3 years but always looking for staff = high turn over in people = low retention rate!

never a good sign with any job...

RainyDay

polaco wrote:

how long you have to work in that role to get to next stage store manager??

I've no personal experience of these companies as an employer, but I'd expect promotion to be based on performance, not length of service.

polaco

dame wrote:

I got offered the job with Lidl and was told by the boss it'd be 48-60 hours a week. I didn't take it. Great money and undoubtedly a great opportunity but I reckoned I'd get burnt out.

I went to the interview for Area Manager for Aldi too (mostly out of curiosity and to see if I'd get offered it too) but got a PFO.

How long did you wait for reply after second interview I got one last monday did they ring you can you feed me with some info

Thanks

dame

polaco wrote:

How long did you wait for reply after second interview I got one last monday did they ring you can you feed me with some info

Thanks

I got a phone call from the boss then a few weeks later the contract came in the post. Your writing style may need brushing up if you're going to be doing paperwork for any job you may have in the future.

dame

polaco wrote:

anybody know what is salary for deputy manager in Lidl and how long you have to work in that role to get to next stage store manager??
Thanks

It is performance based and you must prove yourself competent, committed and hard-working obviously. I think the salary would be about 33k and you wouldn't really expect to be moving up to the next rung on the ladder in less than three months.

polaco

Thanks for answer and sorry for my writting style.
By the way I had 1-2-1 interview last Monday so I hope to get some news in few days time

dame wrote:

I got a phone call from the boss then a few weeks later the contract came in the post. Your writing style may need brushing up if you're going to be doing paperwork for any job you may have in the future.

dame

Fingers crossed for you.

Aedh Baclamh

Drapper wrote:

both are horrible to work for!

same number of stores for 3 years but always looking for staff = high turn over in people = low retention rate!

Exactly.

Nothing has changed much in three years for Lidl I feel, but yet they're always looking for staff. And those staff get pretty pissed off awfully quick, and you can't blame when you're getting screwed for you breaks and asked to fill in for someone who's off to see their mother later on.

wyndham

This is from the Guardian about a month ago. Found it an interesting read and may be of use to some of you:

On Wilmslow Road in Manchester, just before the first neon sign announces the start of the city's "curry mile", two supermarkets sit side by side. On the left is a Tesco Express that offers, according to its red, blue and white facade, "quality and value at your convenience". On the right is a red, blue and yellow Lidl, "WHERE QUALITY IS CHEAPER!"
Though the Lidl is around twice the size of its neighbour, both stores sell many similar foods, from simple, sliced-white loaves to fresh basil, tomatoes and mozzarella. On a drizzly Saturday afternoon both shops are equally bustling. But that's where the similarities end. Tesco is British, Lidl is German. There are shopping baskets and neatly stacked shelves in Tesco; only pay-for trolleys and piled-high pallets in Lidl. The former is giving loyalty-card points; the latter is charging 3p per carrier bag. And only in Lidl can you buy a stepladder or a laminator alongside such exotically labelled delicacies as tinned squid in an "American-style" sauce and "premium bockwursts" in a jar.


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But perhaps the most interesting difference is this: while no self-respecting ethical foodie will admit to shopping in Tesco after all the negative publicity it has received in recent months, a growing number are trotting off to Lidl to buy their ricotta, prosciutto and other fancy goodies at bargain-basement prices. Though the majority of Lidl's customer base is still society's lowest earners, "Lidling" is no longer sniffed at by middle-class epicures. In an upmarket newspaper, one fully paid-up member of the gastroscenti recently told of how she and fellow guests at a dinner party had bonded over "thrillingly cheap-as-chips but surprisingly edible discoveries" they had made at Lidl.
It's not just London foodies either: a nationwide customer-satisfaction survey by the consumer magazine Which? recently revealed that British consumers rated Lidl more highly than indigenous supermarkets such as Tesco and Sainsbury's. Struggling out of the Manchester store with three bulging Lidl carrier bags, insurance broker Stephen Dempsey, 32, agrees. "It's a refreshing alternative to the big supermarkets such as Tesco, Sainsbury's and Morrisons," he says. He lives down the road in Fallowfield, where there is a big Sainsbury's, and could easily afford to shop there. But he gets the bus to Lidl.

It's the same story outside the new Lidl in the posh Mapperley Park area of Nottingham, where well-heeled customers can often be seen hopping out of their Mercedes for bargains, which now even include a small range of organic vegetables. This Nottingham store and others like it mark a change in strategy for the company, which, since opening its first UK store in 1994, has tended to build warehouse-style stores from scratch in the more economically deprived areas of towns.

With an increasing number of customers like Dempsey and a reputation reaching far beyond the deprived demographic with which it - and fellow "hard discounters" Aldi and Netto, from Germany and Denmark respectively - were initially associated, it is no wonder that Lidl is expanding at an astonishing rate. Since its first outlet opened in Germany in 1973, the supermarket chain has swelled to more than 7,000 stores, more than 400 of which are in the UK (Asda has only around 360). And while its head office is cagey about the firm's expansion drive - and, in fact, almost everything else - a spokeswoman admits that Lidl is planning to open up to 40 new UK stores this year. That is almost one new outlet every nine days.

But while Tescopoly, Friends of the Earth, the National Farmers' Union and others campaign noisily about Tesco's aggressive expansion plans and its estimated 1,800 existing UK stores, barely anyone is batting an eyelid about the speed with which Lidl is encroaching on the British retail landscape. Which is odd, because its tactics are controverisal, particularly the way in which it treats its staff.

In fact, so controversial is the company's reputation in mainland Europe that in 2004, Ver.di, a huge German trade union with 2.5 million members, published a book called Das Schwarz-Buch Lidl Europa (The Black Book on Lidl in Europe). This was based on more than 3,500 accounts submitted by past and present employees. An updated 144-page English translation came out last year, detailing complaints from some of Lidl's 170,000-plus staff working in 23 European countries. The charges were wide-ranging, numerous and often serious. Hidden cameras were said to have been found in one store in Wasbek, north Germany - they were being used to monitor staff. "Mr D's partner is expecting a baby and, as he says himself, he needs a lot of money at the moment," read one meticulously logged transcript. And on it went: "17.25: Mr D describes his poor financial situation and talks of impending fatherhood and the additional expenses it involves."

The Black Book said that in Portugal the main retail union criticised Lidl for routinely asking staff whose contracts of employment were due for renewal whether they were planning to have children. It said that the company was subsequently fined for its preference for maintaining a pregnancy-free zone. When the Guardian asked Lidl's UK press spokeswoman - who asked not to be quoted by name - to comment on the above allegations, she said that she could only speak on behalf of UK operations, but that the Black Book was out of date and riddled with errors. She claimed that several foreign newspapers were made to issue retractions, but could not, or would not, specify what the errors were, nor which media organisations were compelled to retract their stories. When we asked for the number of the German head office - if there is one somewhere on the internet, it's not somewhere obvious - she said that she did not know the number, and nor did anyone else within Lidl UK.

Though it is true that Lidl is spectacularly complicated in structure, comprising some 600 interlocking companies, it does seem astonishing that even the UK chief executive has no contact with his superiors in Germany. Via a circuitous route, however, we were finally able to speak to Gertrud Bott, Lidl's extremely polite head of international public relations. She eventually told us that there are cameras installed in some stores, "to ensure that our staff are provided with a safe working environment". She said that the cameras were always visible, with both staff and customers being made aware of their existence. As for the Portuguese case, she said that the apparently anti-mother policy resulted from a translation error on some job-application forms. "It should be absolutely clear that an international company such as ours does not implement policies concerning family as described by the Black Book," she said.

It's not just the press that has problems getting straight answers out of Lidl: it can be almost as bad for employees. Last year Emma Blackmore, 22, had to get the citizen's advice bureau involved after Lidl failed to pay her anything for the three months she worked in its Farnham branch in Norfolk. "It's impossible to quibble over anything that's going wrong. They won't give you the telephone number of anyone in head office who deals with payroll and might help you sort it out," she says. Blackmore had no union rep to help her in the dispute because Lidl does not recognise unions - the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, which represents 340,000 retail workers, has no members from Lidl, Aldi or Netto (even Asda, owned by the agressively anti-union Walmart, has 25,000 staff in the GMB). When the Guardian asked Lidl's UK spokeswoman why this was, she declined to comment, saying: "All I can tell you is that we do not prevent our workers from joining unions." The delay in paying Blackmore was due to "issues with paperwork," she said, adding that she had received the money a month after leaving the company.

Other sales assistants have told the Guardian that only managers are given phone numbers for head office, and that other staff had to call the customer service number given on the company's website if they had a problem. This is something the company denies, saying that there is a "personnel number" for employees to call.

Frank Ludwig, 43, started working as a store assistant in Sligo, Ireland, last May. He quit on February 13 because of what he says were breaches of the working-time directive, the European law that states that workers are entitled to a minimum of 11 consecutive hours or rest in any 24-hour period, and a break of at least 15 minutes every six hours. When Ludwig joined Lidl, he says, he was assured that he wouldn't have to work nights. But at Christmas, his manager gave him what are known as back-to-back shifts. These involve working a 12-hour shift until midnight, then being expected back in the store at 6am. "It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was completely wrecked and I couldn't take it any more," he says. "I couldn't survive on four hours' sleep a night." His former colleague Jens Derenthal, now 21, says these shifts became the norm for him. "For three months before I quit in April last year I was doing them once or twice a week," he says. A spokeswoman for Lidl in Ireland, however, said: "We can categorically reject any allegations that staff members are 'routinely' given 'back-to-back' shifts. The planning of our staff's working time complies with all relevant legislation."

Some Lidl workers complain not just about the long hours, but about the pressure they are put under in stores that seem deliberately to have minimal staff in order to save money. For example, checkout staff say they are told to put 35-40 items a minute through the till. Their average speed is recorded on the till's computer and is checked by managers each night. The task is made all the more difficult by the fear of "mystery shoppers", who are employed to try to outsmart staff with devious ways of sneaking goods past the checkouts, says Ludwig. "One guy got in trouble when a mystery shopper bought a box of wine, that appeared to contain six of the same bottles of bottom-of-the-range wine. But the mystery shopper had switched all but the two visible bottles for a more expensive vintage, and because of the pressure to work as quickly as possible, the checkout guy didn't realise."

The pressure is on for those workers toiling in Lidl's depots, too. Until just after Christmas last year, 21-year-old Sam Nigh worked at a big warehouse in Weston-super-Mare that assembles orders for around 60 individual stores. There, staff were given a target "pick rate" of 220 cases per hour. A computer on each little truck contained a sort of electronic shopping list that detailed what each store had ordered. When a worker put a big box of carrots on their pallet, a case would be knocked off their list. "It was really difficult," Nigh says. "I reckon I worked around 100 shifts and met the pick-rate 10 times, max." Managers kept tabs on everyone's pick-rate and would tell those who hadn't made the grade to pull their socks up.

It is not just those workers at the bottom rung of the employment ladder who criticise Lidl. Adam (not his real name) joined the company as a district store manager in 2004 as a high-flying graduate in charge of four, and then five, stores. A condition of his £26,000 starting salary was that he signed out of the working-time directive, and was told that contrary to the usual statutory rules, he would be doing a 55-hour week. In reality, he was working up to 75 hours, spread across five-and-a-half days a week. He quit after nine months, burned out and realising that, "I couldn't get excited about price-matching Netto on spaghetti hoops."

Adam says that the pressure leads management sometimes to behave almost inhumanely. He tells a story by way of illustration: "One day I got a call from a store manager in Manchester, saying that four men armed with shotguns had just come in and robbed the store. He said that he thought they had got away with £2,000, and wanted to know what form he needed to fill in to explain when cashing up why the tills were going to be two grand down that night.

"It was only when I asked about the girl who had been on the checkout they robbed that it became clear that she was still sitting there, expected to carry on working. Not only that, but he hadn't called the police either. He had called me first, wanting to know what the armed robbery meant for his admin duties. This is what being a manager at Lidl does to you: it makes you so hard that when you're involved in an armed robbery, instead of being terrified, you just feel like saying to the robbers, 'You have no idea how much harder you have made my day; how much extra paperwork I am going to have to do now.'"

But the incident that made Adam realise he really had to get out occurred one morning at 3.30am with a phone call from his line manager. Only the most senior managers are issued with work phones, so the company had Adam's personal mobile number, which is why his phone wasn't switched off. When he answered it, he was woken with a torrent of abuse for not answering his phone sooner. There had been a break-in at a store in Grimsby, in which the store's glass front had been smashed. Adam's superior demanded that he get straight in his car, drive there and call the Lidl-preferred glazier (so that the firm wouldn't be liable for the more expensive police glazier).

Adam protested that it wasn't one of his stores, that Grimsby was a one-and-a-half-hour drive away and that by the time he got there the police would have secured the store anyway. But he was ordered to go, and, right enough, when he arrived at 5.30am, the police glazier had already been. There was nothing for him to do but sleep in his car until the manager showed up at 7am. Later on, he was walking around the Grimsby store like a zombie when a regular customer asked what had happened. On hearing what Adam had been made to do, he asked why he put up with that kind of thing. "I started wittering on about the pay, the great experience I was getting, the variety of the job, etc, etc, and when the customer pointed out that you could get all those things at firms who would never expect you to get out of bed at three in the morning to do something completely pointless, I resolved to leave."

But for some, one of the worst things about working at Lidl is the climate of suspicion that appears to exist among staff, as illustrated by the response given by one Lidl worker that the Guardian tracked down via Myspace. How do I know you're from the Guardian, she asked, thinking we were from Lidl company testing, "as I'm sure they are sad enough to spy on me". She said she would love to talk but that it wasn't worth her job. But, she added, "everything you've heard is true".

Noelisgod

I was called for a group interview myself (area manager role) but upon reading up on Aldi/Lidl I have changed my mind and wont be going.

Yes the money is good and no doubt the business experience would be great but the bottom line is you would essentially be giving up the majority of your spare time and the general consensus is that you will be working 50-60 hours
a week MINIMUM which is just nuts. In other words this is a 'live to work' job as apposed to a 'work to live' job.

I guess if you were straight out of college, hungry and eager to learn it could be a runner but for someone like myself (early 30's, young family) there was no way I would be willing to work a 50-60 hour week job. At the end of the day its about balancing work with your required quality of life. Unfortunately for Aldi and Lidl workers it seems the balance is strictly in works favour.:(

rediguana

Noelisgod wrote:

I was called for a group interview myself (area manager role) but upon reading up on Aldi/Lidl I have changed my mind and wont be going.

Yes the money is good and no doubt the business experience would be great but the bottom line is you would essentially be giving up the majority of your spare time and the general consensus is that you will be working 50-60 hours
a week MINIMUM which is just nuts. In other words this is a 'live to work' job as apposed to a 'work to live' job.

I guess if you were straight out of college, hungry and eager to learn it could be a runner but for someone like myself (early 30's, young family) there was no way I would be willing to work a 50-60 hour week job. At the end of the day its about balancing work with your required quality of life. Unfortunately for Aldi and Lidl workers it seems the balance is strictly in works favour.:(

I think you should still go. I did it a few months ago. It's decent practice for group interview situations.

Noelisgod

rediguana wrote:

I think you should still go. I did it a few months ago. It's decent practice for group interview situations.

If you went through the interview process I assume you were spoken to
about the time and commitment required - can you confirm that Area Managers have to work up to 60 hour weeks and 6 days weeks??

damnyanks

Money / perks are far above the avg for inexperienced people. 60 hours isnt that much especially if its across 6 days.

the_syco

wyndham wrote:

This is from the Guardian about a month ago. Found it an interesting read and may be of use to some of you

Fúck. That's a nice eye opener. And I thought some of my past jobs were dodgy, regarding hours, pay, and terms & conditions!

subway

damnyanks wrote:

Money / perks are far above the avg for inexperienced people. 60 hours isnt that much especially if its across 6 days.

considering that if you worked 60 hours a week on minimum wage youd make over 30k i dont see how the amount of effort reuqired by aldi/lidl would justify the extra 10k.
the fact that the articale posted above makes it sound like one of the worst places to work would also really put me off.
40k with no prospects or life is not really worth it.
id imagine anyone with the drive required to succedd in aldi and lidl could be on more than 40k+ in a much better working enviroment in a year or two if they got into a decent ccompany and put in the effrot.

err

Hello, I have been invited for the interview with Lidl but after reading all that information I think that it would be better to work for Aldi. The question to people who applied for both: Have you been invited by both? And does anyone know what car you get from Lidl?

err

Sorry, one more thing: are there any other companies worth considering that offer similar profits for similar jobs?

Drapper

err wrote: »

Sorry, one more thing: are there any other companies worth considering that offer similar profits for similar jobs?

profits?

err

Salary....

ed6hellsfresh

Well when I was working in M&S I spoke to "commercial managers" there, who were grads and they said they were on 35k and never worked more than 40 hrs.

the high pay of lidl/aldi are really bad if you consider you do in the region of an extra 50% working hours

err

thanx, I will check marks&sparks then....

polaco

err wrote: »

thanx, I will check marks&sparks then....

Have you checked M&S yet I've been working for Lidl for past 9 months as DSM is not that bad I do 48hrs no more but is very very hard you doing everything if you want some job spec from present worker dont hesitate by the way salary for DSM is 40k from June for SM is 53k

AlexD

I see your point flat, but isn't the job Area Manager? My understanding was that they are in charge of four shops. It's also a higher management promotion stream, so you are being trained to take over at high levels in the company.

Aldi and Lidl may be at the bottom end of the retail market in terms of price (and maybe quality) but they are top class, profitable, well run transcontinential companies. You can also take pride that my working there you are increasing the standard of living for some of the poorest in society by providing cheap food and other goods.

err

Hi,
Your opionion seems to be completely different from the others.
You say you are DSM (is it designate store manager?) and you have been working for them for 9 months.
Does it mean that you started this District Manager Training Programm as DSM and working your way to become district manager?
What car did they give you and do you get it from day 1?
I have checked m&s and it did not seem to be interesting (i think they finished their recruitment for 2008).
BTW: your nick is polaco - are you polish?