Two Examples Why CIE Will Never Be a Professional Railway Company.

Transport21 Fan

Exhibit A:

Letter to the Indo Today (unprofessional paddywackery treating a modern transit system in a major European capital like a joke ala Quiet Man station scene):

Having crossed the iron footbridge at Booterstown Station the other day to get to the strand, the driver of the just-pulled-in Dart, obviously thinking I was a displaced commuter, called from his cab window, "If you climb over the wall, I'll hold the train for you." That's good nature for you!
OLIVER MCGRANE,
RATHFARNHAM, D 16

Exhibit B:

Same old, same old...

Rail cancellations in Co Cork dispute

28 June 2006 13:50

Two early morning trains from Cork and Kerry to Dublin were cancelled because of an unofficial dispute involving two railway staff attached to Mallow Station in Co Cork.

All passengers on the 5.30am train from Cork to Dublin and the 6.55am train from Tralee to Dublin were transported by bus from Mallow.

Other services today will not be affected by the dispute.

It's this carry on which often makes me beleive that the Motorway programme represents more of a social investment than giving money to CIE/IE.

A Dub in Glasgo

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Exhibit A:

Letter to the Indo Today (unprofessional paddywackery treating a modern transit system in a major European capital like a joke ala Quiet Man station scene):

I have had train drivers go out of their way to accommodate late running passengers. I have also had train drivers who would not accommodate anybody that is outside of their process. As a passenger, I know which one I prefer.

Diaspora

T21

Unfortunately I have the opinion that your objectivity in relation to IE has evaporated and that these constant assualts on IE are starting to wear a little tedius.

This is a pity because your sense of humour and wit in relation to unrelated topics is entertaining and well focussed.

I will leave you with a personnal experience of the RPA

Wet Sunday a few months ago I decided to do a reverse rovers moverment and took Luas from Tallafornia to Charlemont; at red cow my ticket was checked and punched a took the I then took the 'a pied' interconnector from Abbey to the Green boarded the green line at Harcourt; my ticket was checked and I was told I was in breach and would have to buy a ticket I told the foreign gent that I was alighting at my stop Charlemont and that he was in fact incorrect. He persisted publicly in front of a tram of people with a raised voice telling me I didn't have a valid ticket.

Off at charlemont to the machine to show him that the ticket was valid to all central 1 stations; neither him or his superior had a clue of how the system worked. I offered to accompany them to Harcourt Terrace Garda station they declined; I never received an apology.

Piasos

bryanw

Diaspora wrote:

I will leave you with a personnal experience of the RPA

Wet Sunday a few months ago I decided to do a reverse rovers moverment and took Luas from Tallafornia to Charlemont; at red cow my ticket was checked and punched a took the I then took the 'a pied' interconnector from Abbey to the Green boarded the green line at Harcourt; my ticket was checked and I was told I was in breach and would have to buy a ticket I told the foreign gent that I was alighting at my stop Charlemont and that he was in fact incorrect. He persisted publicly in front of a tram of people with a raised voice telling me I didn't have a valid ticket.

Off at charlemont to the machine to show him that the ticket was valid to all central 1 stations; neither him or his superior had a clue of how the system worked. I offered to accompany them to Harcourt Terrace Garda station they declined; I never received an apology.

Piasos

Would that not really be Connex you were dealing with...?

murphaph

Did anybody else see those goons in Mallow being interviewed on th news? "we just want to talk to the company" they reckoned. Eh, well you have a HR dept. and if you get no joy there then go talk to your poxy union, don't just walk out on unofficial action and fcuk over two trainloads of passengers! Tossers. By the way, the two were father and son :rolleyes:

MarkoP11

The frst example of Booterstown is completely fine, its nice to see a positive attitude

There are strikes in privitised companies too, there are several disputes ongoing in the UK at the monent. The ownership is irrevalent the staff hold safety critical postiions they know they can't be replaced quickly hence they have a much stronger position. That said things are still moving very limited effect on services since the other staff are crossing the picket line

bryanw wrote:

Would that not really be Connex you were dealing with...?

Connex are agents acting on behalf of the RPA

Dub13

I agree T21s anti CIE rants are wearing very, very thin.

shltter

Transport21 Fan wrote:

POST 403 will this time...absolutely be my last to boards.ie..

We live in hope.

BuffyBot

POST 403 will this time...absolutely be my last to boards.ie..

..on this name, at least.

Anyway, it's very easy to select out some "bad" things which happen. It's easier to ignore all the positive stuff that CIE employees do (such as the driver I encountered on the 748 the other day, who couldn't do enough to help the tourists with luggage, figuring out where they needed to get off, ticketing etc). Perhaps people should start some threads for each positive encounter, balancing the karma a little.

lostexpectation

T21 Pfo

aliveandkicking

POST 403 will this time...absolutely be my last to boards.ie..

Don't mind them Thomas, some of us like reading your posts.

monument

Can any one say CRUSADE?

T21 wrote:

POST 403 will this time...absolutely be my last to boards.ie.

:rolleyes:

Schuhart

Transport21 Fan wrote:

POST 403 will this time...absolutely be my last to boards.ie.

All the Western Rail Corridor needs to be economic is a spur to Achill Sound.

Sarsfield

monument wrote:

Can any one say CRUSADE?

Not without risking a Fatwah

And isn't Connex now known by it's parents name Veolia?

Transport21 Fan

murphaph wrote:

By the way, the two were father and son :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

Naturally. How else are the semi-state unions going to defend us against the "race to the bottom" without their own nepotism and looking after the boys (literally).

Transport21 Fan

Schuhart wrote:

All the Western Rail Corridor needs to be economic is a spur to Achill Sound.

Get thee behind me Satan!

Transport21 Fan

MarkoP11 wrote:

The frst example of Booterstown is completely fine, its nice to see a positive attitude

Bull****. Absolutle and utter bull****. The DART is a timetabled, mass transit system (apparently) and not a taxi or bus. This would not be tolerated in Germany or Switzerland - the drivers would be in trouble. Jesus christ are you have to be ****ing ****ting me! What's the point of a timetable then.

I am simply amazed how you can defend this! This is the very height of unprofessional conduct. Being a nice bloke is not what DART drivers are paid for.

A Dub in Glasgo

What hyperbole. A mass transit system should rely on frequency rather than strict timetables for operation. If there is a train every 5 minutes, not many people really care if it is at xx.05 or xx.06

shltter

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Bull****. Absolutle and utter bull****. The DART is a timetabled, mass transit system (apparently) and not a taxi or bus. This would not be tolerated in Germany or Switzerland - the drivers would be in trouble. Jesus christ are you have to be ****ing ****ting me! What's the point of a timetable then.

I am simply amazed how you can defend this! This is the very height of unprofessional conduct. Being a nice bloke is not what DART drivers are paid for.

But this is not Germany or Switzerland we probably could not organise to gas 6 million people to death or hide the gold for the people who did either. But hey we are not perfect.
I can only suggest that you go off and live with your beloved Germans most people in this country would be very happy that a train driver would hold the train for a few seconds rather than the jack boot atitude you would prefer.

Diaspora

bryanw wrote:

Would that not really be Connex you were dealing with...?

I stand corrected but it was no less uncomfortable regardless of who they were; Sunday hangovers are bad enough without dealing with total idiots

paulm17781

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Bull****. Absolutle and utter bull****. The DART is a timetabled, mass transit system (apparently) and not a taxi or bus. This would not be tolerated in Germany or Switzerland - the drivers would be in trouble. Jesus christ are you have to be ****ing ****ting me! What's the point of a timetable then.

I am simply amazed how you can defend this! This is the very height of unprofessional conduct. Being a nice bloke is not what DART drivers are paid for.

At first I agreed with you. Then I remembered that the DART is not like the paris metro where there will be one in two minutes. There is also the huge padding that IE put in so they will still be on time. If the driver doing this was holding up trains behind I would see your point. However this is Ireland and that is the best level of service you can get from the DART in it's current form.

lostinsuperfunk

Bull****. Absolutle and utter bull****. The DART is a timetabled, mass transit system (apparently) and not a taxi or bus.

Maybe it was - gasp - ahead of schedule and there was time to spare?

dmeehan

lostinsuperfunk wrote:

Maybe it was - gasp - ahead of schedule and there was time to spare?

sounds a bit like Ryanair: "Welecome to XYZ, 10 minutes ahead of schedule"

they are always "ahead of schedule", or have i just been lucky?

Hobart

T21 and sh1tter take a fews hours to cool down. This type of crapola is not really on.

SeanW

I agree with the above points - what's the big deal? The driver offered to wait a short time (what, like 10 seconds) if yer'man would take a shortcut. This when there probably won't be another DART for 20-30 minutes. Dart =/= S-Bahn, Subway, Tube, <insert hi-spec Metro system name here>.

Dub13

Seems like a catch 22 situation,if he waits some will moan if he drives of having seen the passenger some moan about CIE staff been ignorant.

DerekP11

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Bull****. Absolutle and utter bull****. The DART is a timetabled, mass transit system (apparently) and not a taxi or bus. This would not be tolerated in Germany or Switzerland - the drivers would be in trouble. Jesus christ are you have to be ****ing ****ting me! What's the point of a timetable then.

I am simply amazed how you can defend this! This is the very height of unprofessional conduct. Being a nice bloke is not what DART drivers are paid for.

I'm going to disagree with my P11 colleague (MarkoP11) on this one and not on the basis of the DART being a mass transit system or the timetable or whether it would be tolerated in Germany or Switzerland.

What was described in the Times letter was a gross breech of rules. "Climbing over a wall" is not proper access to a station. While the DART driver can be described as "helpful", he can also be described as "careless". If the person was actually a passenger and decided to "climb" over the wall and fell and broke a bone, we can only imagine the resulting court case. "The driver told me to do it." Health and Safety folks.

Im stunned by the general acceptance of this story. Are we that short of customer service on the rail network (I can already hear the voices screaming, "yes") that we are prepared to accept an IE staff member, encourage a perceived customer to climb over a wall into a station, while he holds the train?

I second T21s reaction. Its nuts and as a representative of P11 I could not accept this episode as an example of "staff being helpful". It gross negligence. Full stop.

spacetweek

shltter wrote:

But this is not Germany or Switzerland we probably could not organise to gas 6 million people to death or hide the gold for the people who did either. But hey we are not perfect.
I can only suggest that you go off and live with your beloved Germans most people in this country would be very happy that a train driver would hold the train for a few seconds rather than the jack boot atitude you would prefer.

I don't see how WW2 is relevant to this situation. According to that logic, nothing the Germans ever did right could be copied on the grounds that under Hitler they also committed atrocities. You have to move on.

I'm with T21 fan - I think this "ah sure I'll hould on a few minutes for dat fella" crap belongs in the 1930s. Gimme efficiency and professionalism any day over that.

aliveandkicking

It's a tough one, if a driver (bus or train) done that for me I'd be singing his praises but at the same time I can see the unprofessionalism in it thats prevalent accross our entire transport network. As I said its a tough one and I can't quite make up my mind, fence sitting on this one

shoegirl

MarkoP11 wrote:

There are strikes in privitised companies too, there are several disputes ongoing in the UK at the monent. The ownership is irrevalent the staff hold safety critical postiions they know they can't be replaced quickly hence they have a much stronger position. That said things are still moving very limited effect on services since the other staff are crossing the picket line

There is a particular problem in Cork with wildcat strikes and one-man industrial mayhem. Its a problem that probably includes some kind of problem at regional management level, I think its fair to guess that if this were not the case the problem would not be concentrated in Cork. However this is something that both CIE and employee representative bodies need to iron out. Having been left stranded at Cork stations several times, on what is now a quite appalling and delapidated service, its very discouraging to use rail in Cork for anything but leisure. The passenger figures reflect this: I have been the only person on an early morning train (more than once)! The trains between 8am and 9am (so-called peak times) are often half-empty.

Yet incredibly people in Carrigtohill and Midleton wait excitedly to share in this shambles of a service. Cancellations are commonplace and lateness the norm. There is a problem and it needs serious troubleshooting from both sides.

Yes strikes have happened in the UK, but you have to remember that over there many of the longer standing staff are ex-British Rail TUPEd into the private operators and well represented. The problem in the UK in recent years have been that operators have sometimes chosen to deliberately fail service levels and pay the cash penalty if it will save them cash as opposed to spending to improving the service. Connex were particularly notorious on their south eastern routes: I remember getting on a train towards Hastings about 3 years ago that was the filthiest I have ever seen. Again a lot of this is down to local management.

Diaspora

shoegirl wrote:

)! The trains between 8am and 9am (so-called peak times) are often half-empty.

Yet incredibly people in Carrigtohill and Midleton wait excitedly to share in this shambles of a service. Cancellations are commonplace and lateness the norm. There is a problem and it needs serious troubleshooting from both sides.

You should start a thread recording each problem as it happens and make a complaint through the European rail passenger complaints network when you have assembled a number of complaints. No single incident will get action but a catalogue of issues and occurances would be a useful way of pursuing what appears to be an ongoing pattern.

MarkoP11

Point is simple in any other business the two guys in Mallow would be handed P45's and thrown out, problem is they know that won't happen since there is no one to take there place. There is a problem in Cork it is well known, there are labour court backed procedures for dealing with issues, the union isn't complaining which leads you to believe the staff are not getting support it is becoming clear that the unions are not representing the staff on the issues they need help with leaving them to fend for themselves. Two of the last three problems in Cork have been due to staff taking unofficial action being unhappy with the result of a disciplinary action, the normal proceedure is to appeal not to strike

The strike in Cork in May was in fact triggered by an 11th hour decision by Dublin based management. Driver showed up (at his required booking on time) refused to drive the train since it could not be made serviceable in time, offered to take out another train (the normal set) which was available, spare and serviceable, spare link driver did same. It suited Irish Rail to disrupt 60,000 odd people, if the plan as per the notice issued to staff had been followed there is a strong chance nothing would have happened.

As far as I am aware the reliability of the Cobh service has improved significantly over the last few years, the frequency has improved, its now better than one Dublin commuter line in terms of services. The old coaches have been sold for scrap since extra railcars from Dublin have arrived. Passenger numbers for Cork suburban are quite significant the loadings on a train at 6:15 am are always going to be light. There are some operational problems at Kent stations due to the lack of platforms which is to be dealt with. Cork Cobh for all its faults quietly gets on with it and the fares are quite low

BTW this 'wall' in Booterstown is a railing about 2.5 feet tall at the Blackrock end of the southbound platform, there has been some confusion in recent weeks since a second footbridge went in particularly when the station is unstaffed late at night. Many stations have a back gate of sorts anyone who uses Kildare will be familiar with the stile, when a Irish Rail manager declared it unofficial and stated at a public meeting that it would have to be closed the reaction of the crowd triggered a total U turn and a blind eye is turned to fact several hundred a day use it

DerekP11

Climbing over anything to access a station is unacceptable. Blind eye or not, accicents happen and suddenly the blind eye will be expected to have 20/20 vision in the courts. Its not a professional, safe or a correct way of doing things. Furthermore holding a train in this fashion, is, in my opinion, out of order.

Did someone else mention "paddywhackery", coz thats what it is. Running onto the platform via the correct and designated entrance and getting spotted by the driver is one thing and can be accepted. But, I repeat, being encouraged to climb over anything to access the platform via a non-designated entrance/exit point(and I don't care what height it is) by IE staff is not acceptable.

Im going to do a WRC supporter routine on this one and....not budge.:D

strassenwolf

I don't understand one thing about the Booterstown incident. At what stage was the would-be passenger supposed to purchase a ticket?

gjim

But this is not Germany or Switzerland we probably could not organise to gas 6 million people to death or hide the gold for the people who did either. But hey we are not perfect.

This is an outragous comment. You've proven yourself not only to be a humourless self-interested bore but a nasty xenophobe too. Pretty typical of the more extreme trade unionist in Ireland unfortunately as demonstrated by SIPTU's and Labour's recent disgraceful "no more immigrants" outbursts.

jjbrien

The one thing that alway puzzels me about IE staff and I seen it today again. How come they refuse to wear the proper uniform? If you go to germany and norway you see DB and NSB staff perfectly turned out. If you go to Connolly, Mullingar or most IE station you see most staff members looking rather scruffy in high visability waistcoats and there own civi clothes or they are waering an old IE uniform from years ago which is not the current uniform. Another reason why they will never be a professional rail company.

Transport21 Fan

BuffyBot wrote:

Anyway, it's very easy to select out some "bad" things which happen. It's easier to ignore all the positive stuff that CIE employees do (such as the driver I encountered on the 748 the other day, who couldn't do enough to help the tourists with luggage, figuring out where they needed to get off, ticketing etc). Perhaps people should start some threads for each positive encounter, balancing the karma a little.

I shagged a CIE female bus driver once.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh? Nah, sorry. CIE are a terrible company filled with people who are unfit to work in public transport. Wish I could, but ya know the truth and all that...

Is it just me or has Buffybot actually posted something to this board which comes close to a contribution actually worth reading!

murphaph

Did you go all the way with her T21?

Dub13

Transport Fan are you a one issue poster...?All off your posts I read you are moaning about public transport.

Transport21 Fan

murphaph wrote:

Did you go all the way with her T21?

She was a nice girl. I respected her as a person. But when I saw her in the Dublin Bus uniform the following morning asking me if I wanted a coffee, I felt cheap and I knew I had lower myself. My only excuse was there were no independent bus companies or CONNEX in the 1980's. Part of growing up I guess.

Transport21 Fan

Dub13 wrote:

Transport Fan are you a one issue poster...?All off your posts I read you are moaning about public transport.

Correction, I think the LUAS is fantastic and praise it constantly.

Dub13

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Correction, I think the LUAS is fantastic and praise it constantly.

Thats grand if you are on the southside.

Transport21 Fan

Rome wasn't built in a day...The Northside will have a fantastic Metro which will make it the envy of the entire country which won't be contaminated by the CIE union disease.

Other than the property game, CIE is an obsolete brand at this point. Not that this matters to the vast majority of CIE employees as they would be just as happy flipping burgers, giving Turkish massages, or opening apartment building doors in their top hats as they would driving buses and trains. Once they have an unsackable, job for life and a chance to sort-out their son's into the publically-funded CIE union "family" business they don't care.

Of course there is a percentage of dedicated public transport professionals within CIE (whom I have the upmost respect for), but they'll all eventually be working in other public transport providers in the years to come were they can advance their careers and skills based on merit and not be dependent on the NBRU to baby them through life like Papa and Junior in Mallow.

markpb

Dub13 wrote:

Transport Fan are you a one issue poster...?All off your posts I read you are moaning about public transport.

What's wrong with that? Public transport in Dublin is totally sub-standard but most people seem happy to accept it. If he's not happy, why shouldn't he complain?

Besides, as he's already said, its not public transport - its CIE/DB/IR and he's mostly on the ball.

Dub13

markpb wrote:

What's wrong with that? Public transport in Dublin is totally sub-standard but most people seem happy to accept it. If he's not happy, why shouldn't he complain?

Besides, as he's already said, its not public transport - its CIE/DB/IR and he's mostly on the ball.

I did not say anything was wrong with it but we get the point,T21 does not like CIE/DB/IR there staff or the way these company's are managed.Point taken its his/her opinion some will agree with it some will not,but there comes a point when it just becomes spam.

Boards.ie Commuting/Transport forum is for the members of Boards to discuss Commuting/Transport issues and not for any particular lobby group to push there agenda.If anybody feels that strongly about something lobby your TDs,MEPs or CIE management and let the Commuting/Transport forum breath a little.

Transport21 Fan

Dub13 wrote:

I did not say anything was wrong with it but we get the point,T21 does not like CIE/DB/IR there staff or the way these company's are managed.Point taken its his/her opinion some will agree with it some will not,but there comes a point when it just becomes spam.

Boards.ie Commuting/Transport forum is for the members of Boards to discuss Commuting/Transport issues and not for any particular lobby group to push there agenda.If anybody feels that strongly about something lobby your TDs,MEPs or CIE management and let the Commuting/Transport forum breath a little.

But what about the pro-CIE union agenda which goes on here as well? I don't see me, others who hold similar opinions as myself, or any P11 members on this board demanding that the NBRU be banned from Boards.ie Commuting/Transport forum.

You do realise that the people standing at bus stops and train stations have a stake in this whole public transport thing as well? That's it's not all about Papa and Babyboy's hurt feelings in Mallow.

I hate to break the news to you, but the NBRU is a lobby for itself and no one else - where were the NBRU in the past when rail lines were closed and bus services curtailed? Were were the NBRU when Spencer Dock was sacrificed to property developers at the expense of public transport development in our capital, were was the NBRU when ILDA almost destroyed the rail network in 2001?

P11 on the other hand stands to gain nothing personal other than a world class rail system which will benefit all. I am 100% behind P11 in this. Honestly, do you think the people who missed their trains because of the family crises at Mallow last week are not going to take my side when it comes to attacking the union behaviour within CIE, or is the CIE union's psychological landscape so profoundly out of synch with reality that you honestly believe that bus and rail passengers in this country will glady suffer through lightning strikes and industrial action for the well being of the NBRU and cherishing of CIE and all it represents?

If this involves myself boring some of you with certain cultural aspects which are at the root of many of the problems within CIE rail services, then it gets stated. Either you debate me or you ignore me.

and again, I don't see P11 or myself demanding that you and the other CIE union people on this board be silenced because we don't see eye to eye.

Jesus, listen to yourself! You cannot honestly be suggesting that CIE union lobbyist have this board as their open forum and people who disagree should be banned. I can see the likes of Shiller or Buffybot thinking like that, but you stating such a thing I am really surprised by.

Dub13

Transport21 Fan wrote:

If this involves myself boring some of you with certain cultural aspects which are at the root of many of the problems within CIE rail services, then it gets stated. Either you debate me or you ignore me.

and again, I don't see P11 or myself demanding that you and the other CIE union people on this board be silenced because we don't see eye to eye.

Jesus, listen to yourself! You cannot honestly be suggesting that CIE union lobbyist have this board as their open forum and people who disagree should be banned. I can see the likes of Shiller or Buffybot thinking like that, but you stating such a thing I am really surprised by.

First off I never asked for anybody to be banned.I think you are picking me up wrong,I agree with alot of the stuff you and the P11 guys post I disagree with other stuff you post but I do not fell strongly enough about it to have a long protracted debate on these issues.But I read the threads with great interest.

I did not suggest for one min that anybody have an open forum here,I am in favor of a open and honest debate I just think that this issue (CIE) is slowly starting to take over this forum.If a thread is started about any CIE operation the same core issues are dragged up again and again,and I feel it could be turning a few people away from the Commuting / Transport forum.So my concern is not that any particular lobby group or agenda gets pushed or one gets more space than the other, my concern is for the general well being of this forum.

lostexpectation

that first letter turned up in the sunday indo today, in a slighlty extended (less edited form)??

methinks it must be T21 writing ****e to even more forums?

parsi

MarkoP11 wrote:

Point is simple in any other business the two guys in Mallow would be handed P45's and thrown out, problem is they know that won't happen since there is no one to take there place. There is a problem in Cork it is well known, there are labour court backed procedures for dealing with issues, the union isn't complaining which leads you to believe the staff are not getting support it is becoming clear that the unions are not representing the staff on the issues they need help with leaving them to fend for themselves. Two of the last three problems in Cork have been due to staff taking unofficial action being unhappy with the result of a disciplinary action, the normal proceedure is to appeal not to strike

The strike in Cork in May was in fact triggered by an 11th hour decision by Dublin based management. Driver showed up (at his required booking on time) refused to drive the train since it could not be made serviceable in time, offered to take out another train (the normal set) which was available, spare and serviceable, spare link driver did same. It suited Irish Rail to disrupt 60,000 odd people, if the plan as per the notice issued to staff had been followed there is a strong chance nothing would have happened.

As far as I am aware the reliability of the Cobh service has improved significantly over the last few years, the frequency has improved, its now better than one Dublin commuter line in terms of services. The old coaches have been sold for scrap since extra railcars from Dublin have arrived. Passenger numbers for Cork suburban are quite significant the loadings on a train at 6:15 am are always going to be light. There are some operational problems at Kent stations due to the lack of platforms which is to be dealt with. Cork Cobh for all its faults quietly gets on with it and the fares are quite low

BTW this 'wall' in Booterstown is a railing about 2.5 feet tall at the Blackrock end of the southbound platform, there has been some confusion in recent weeks since a second footbridge went in particularly when the station is unstaffed late at night. Many stations have a back gate of sorts anyone who uses Kildare will be familiar with the stile, when a Irish Rail manager declared it unofficial and stated at a public meeting that it would have to be closed the reaction of the crowd triggered a total U turn and a blind eye is turned to fact several hundred a day use it

This is definitely one of the best posts I have seen coming from a P11 person. It's clear , informative and isn't taking cheap swipes..

deRanged

MarkoP11 wrote:

As far as I am aware the reliability of the Cobh service has improved significantly over the last few years, the frequency has improved, its now better than one Dublin commuter line in terms of services. The old coaches have been sold for scrap since extra railcars from Dublin have arrived. Passenger numbers for Cork suburban are quite significant the loadings on a train at 6:15 am are always going to be light. There are some operational problems at Kent stations due to the lack of platforms which is to be dealt with.

I've been using the Cobh Cork line since '89.
Right now it's running as a fantastic service, and the ever increasing numbers of passengers are showing this. There was a time when you'd expect a 5-10 minute delay as par for the course, now you've to watch that they don't arrive a few minutes early. It's become cause for surprise when they're a couple of minutes late.
There's plenty of room for improvements, but that's natural.
With increased investment it'll only get better, and as I live on the junction of the Cobh and new Midleton lines I should have a fantastic service in a couple of years.

Cork Cobh for all its faults quietly gets on with it and the fares are quite low

ssh. don't ruin it

I'm no Irish Rail fanboy but credit where credit is due.

shltter

Transport21 Fan wrote:

But what about the pro-CIE union agenda which goes on here as well? I don't see me, others who hold similar opinions as myself, or any P11 members on this board demanding that the NBRU be banned from Boards.ie Commuting/Transport forum.

You do realise that the people standing at bus stops and train stations have a stake in this whole public transport thing as well? That's it's not all about Papa and Babyboy's hurt feelings in Mallow.

I hate to break the news to you, but the NBRU is a lobby for itself and no one else - where were the NBRU in the past when rail lines were closed and bus services curtailed? Were were the NBRU when Spencer Dock was sacrificed to property developers at the expense of public transport development in our capital, were was the NBRU when ILDA almost destroyed the rail network in 2001?

P11 on the other hand stands to gain nothing personal other than a world class rail system which will benefit all. I am 100% behind P11 in this. Honestly, do you think the people who missed their trains because of the family crises at Mallow last week are not going to take my side when it comes to attacking the union behaviour within CIE, or is the CIE union's psychological landscape so profoundly out of synch with reality that you honestly believe that bus and rail passengers in this country will glady suffer through lightning strikes and industrial action for the well being of the NBRU and cherishing of CIE and all it represents?

If this involves myself boring some of you with certain cultural aspects which are at the root of many of the problems within CIE rail services, then it gets stated. Either you debate me or you ignore me.

and again, I don't see P11 or myself demanding that you and the other CIE union people on this board be silenced because we don't see eye to eye.

Jesus, listen to yourself! You cannot honestly be suggesting that CIE union lobbyist have this board as their open forum and people who disagree should be banned. I can see the likes of Shiller or Buffybot thinking like that, but you stating such a thing I am really surprised by.

As usual you jump in with both feet without bothering to check any of your details like for example most of the rail closures in Ireland took place before the NBU now NBRU even came into existence.

The NBU only accepted rail members in 1979 long after the big rail closures

And the NBRU encouraged its members to work while the ILDA lockout was ongoing as the NBRU and SIPTU were more concerned about mantaining the status quo in CIE than having another union threading in on their cosy relationship with CIE management.
It is actually funny that you are so rabidly anti union that you failed to see what the ILDA were actually about that they had the same agenda as you although for very different reasons.

And yes the NBRU is a lobby for itself unfortunately it should be a lobby for its membership but it is not.
And both unions to my knowledge have always opposed closures and curtailments however at the end of the day there job is not to look after the interest of the travelling public that is for organisations like platform11.
But anyone interested in public transport should recognise that proper public transport is not goping to be delivered by people who are being made paid minimum wage by some multinational non union recognising transport company.

And I have to agree with the poster your posts are monotonous and boring you are becoming a one trick pony where trade unions are bad CIE is worse and the RPA is the bees knees. YAWN