The Hazards of Belief

Links234

fran17 wrote: »

Really,any idea what percentage of refugees are lgbt?Last year Germany received 95 reports of assaults regarding lgbt refugees,this coming from an influx of over 1 million.While any abuse is regrettable I don't feel the statistics can justify the open door policy your advocating.The transgender women who were nearly stoned to death by refugees in Dortmund anyone?

What would Jesus do? Tell refugees to feck off home, according to you. None of that feeding and clothing the poor and hungry or anything. "What kinda weaklings do you think Christians are, some sort of good samaritans?" And while I'm certainly used to an incredibly un-Christlike callousness from Christians, I well and truly balk at the idea of you being concerned for transgender women.

Pull the other one, Francis. :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

Lurkio wrote: »

Read that Ronan "briefcase" Mullen has almost certainly been re-elected.

In the words of W B Yeats:

'You have disgraced yourselves again.'

NUI graduates, especially the many recent ones who couldn't be arsed to register, should be embarrassed at the calibre of candidates they elect (or through omission allow others to elect) - compare and contrast with the long tradition of liberal and progressive senators from TCD.

marienbad

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

In the words of W B Yeats:

'You have disgraced yourselves again.'

NUI graduates, especially the many recent ones who couldn't be arsed to register, should be embarrassed at the calibre of candidates they elect (or through omission allow others to elect) - compare and contrast with the long tradition of liberal and progressive senators from TCD.

is this confirmed ?

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0427/784558-seanad-count-norris/

NUI: Mullen, McDowell, Alice Higgins

TCD: Norris, Bacik, Lynn Ruane (happy she pushed that useless git Barrett out.)

Hotblack Desiato

Cabaal wrote: »

Yesterdays Liveline on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2016-04-26&rte_mt_prg_name=test-liveline&title=Follow%20the%20Icon&c7=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0426%2F20160426_rteradio1-liveline-followthei_c20977071_20977072_232_.mp3&r=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0426%2F20160426_rteradio1-liveline-followthei_c20977071_20977072_232_.mp3

Not on the same level as the 'beat your kids, not your meat' Liveline the other week, but still, the best thing any presenter can do is just get the religious loons on the line and let them talk

How gullible were these people giving what little valuables they had to the richest organisation in the world?

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

[...] 'beat your kids, not your meat' [...]

PMSL

recedite

If I saw that pick-up truck parked up, I'd be sooo tempted to take a a black marker to it and change followtheicon.ie to followtheloon.ie.

BTW is that tomatoes growing behind the painting? It does make a good mobile greenhouse. They could drive it down to Spain in the winter.

long range shooter

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

He didnt even blame the perpetrator, yeah he's pathological.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norwegian-rape-victim-feels-guilty-the-man-who-raped-him-was-deported-a6975041.html


"A Norwegian man who was raped by a migrant has said he felt “guilt” after his attacker was deported.

Karsten Nordal Hauken, who describes himself as feminist and anti-racist, was sexually attacked five years ago. "

"“But I also got a strong sense of guilt and responsibility. I was the reason why he should not be left in Norway, but rather to face a very uncertain future in Somalia.

“He had already served his sentence in prison. Should he now be punished again? And this time much harder?”

"I do not feel anger toward my assault man, for I see him most as a product of an unjust world. A product of an upbringing marked by war and deprivation.

I stand rock solid in my opinion that the people he needs our help. I want us to continue to help refugees with such a background.

I have been a victim of an injustice and a dark part of the world that we are largely shielded from here at home. But I have yet reconciled myself that it happened to me, here in Norway. For I am a human being first, and not a Norwegian. No, I'm part of the world, and the world is unfortunately unfair.
http://www.nrk.no/ytring/jeg-ble-voldtatt-av-en-mann-1.12852714

Whats happening to todays generation:eek:

Hotblack Desiato

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The St Vincent's Hospital Group Campus is demanding that the body governing the National Maternity Hospital on Holles St dissolve itself and merge with the Sisters of Charity-controlled group.

Catholic Church’s influence over Irish hospital medicine persists

PopePalpatine

long range shooter wrote: »

Whats happening to todays generation:eek:

Just that there's more ways to complain about things.

Hotblack Desiato

Vatican’s financial watchdog reports ‘suspicious activities’ increase

Mr Brülhart also argued that the increased number of suspicious case reports was a direct result of the work of his own institution, which, three years after its statutes were strengthened by Pope Francis, has only now begun to make itself felt.
...
Even if Mr Brülhart emphasised the bureaucratic aspect to the increased “suspicious” reports, the figures revealed by the report do not make for tranquil reading.

For a start, the report states: “In 2015, AIF forwarded 17 reports to the office of the promoter of justice. In most cases, the alleged crimes involved were fraud, tax avoidance and tax evasion.

However, more serious financial crimes have been recorded, such as market disruption in foreign states”.

Asked to name names and indicate the nature of the “market disruption” and the states in which this had occurred, Mr Brülhart declined, pointing out that it would be incorrect of him to publicly discuss such cases, indicating that they were still under investigation.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Vatican’s financial watchdog reports ‘suspicious activities’ increase

Last time I dropped by the Vatican, they were still refusing to accept credit + debit cards. As somebody who has some mild knowledge of the payment card business, a sign like the following - just next to the ticket office for the Vatican, possibly one of the busiest ticket offices in Rome if not Italy itself - stinks to the very highest vault of heaven:

fran17

robindch wrote: »

Last time I dropped by the Vatican, they were still refusing to accept credit + debit cards. As somebody who has some mild knowledge of the payment card business, a sign like the following - just next to the ticket office for the Vatican, possibly one of the busiest ticket offices in Rome if not Italy itself - stinks to the very highest vault of heaven:

Is that the incident in 2013 when credit/debit cards were suspended for 6 weeks due to Italy's concerns about Vatican banking security that your using here?It was estimated the Vatican lost upwards of 50,000 euro in revenue during the period so I'm not seeing the connection.

robindch

fran17 wrote: »

Is that the incident in 2013 when credit/debit cards were suspended for 6 weeks due to Italy's concerns about Vatican banking security that your using here?

The sign was still there a year later in 2014 - didn't bother checking whether it was accurate since the Vatican Bank at the time was still under sanction by a range of other financial organizations.

fran17

robindch wrote: »

The sign was still there a year later in 2014 - didn't bother checking whether it was accurate since the Vatican Bank at the time was still under sanction by a range of other financial organizations.

Ah come on man,seriously?

anothernight

What is it with Spanish Catholic bishops being so anti women? I swear it's worse than in other countries. Last year we had that Braulio guy who victims of domestic abuse pretty much deserved it. This time, the Bishop of Alcalá is saying that women should lose the right to vote because "they are thinking too much for themselves". (Link, in Spanish: http://www.argumentopolitico.com/2016/04/hay-que-quitarles-las-mujeres-el-voto.html)

Same bishop got into trouble with the law in 2014 when he compared abortion law reforms with the trains going to Auschwitz, and has also linked homosexuality with pederasty. Amongst other things anyway.

If he was a high-ranking employee in a private company, he would have been sacked a long time ago.



[I can't translate things atm because I'm too busy, but hopefully google translate will be decent enough]

PopePalpatine

Chances are he was ordained when Franco was still around, and after all, Spain IS the birthplace of Opus Dei.

Lurkio

anothernight wrote: »

What is it with Spanish Catholic bishops being so anti women? I swear it's worse than in other countries. Last year we had that Braulio guy who victims of domestic abuse pretty much deserved it. This time, the Bishop of Alcalá is saying that women should lose the right to vote because "they are thinking too much for themselves". (Link, in Spanish: http://www.argumentopolitico.com/2016/04/hay-que-quitarles-las-mujeres-el-voto.html)

.....beyond satire, really.

anothernight

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Chances are he was ordained when Franco was still around, and after all, Spain IS the birthplace of Opus Dei.

He did officiate mass using the fascist flag a few years ago...

The Black Oil

Urgh, this smacks terribly of "because ethos!"

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/27/475923583/brigham-young-students-claim-university-punished-rape-victims-for-reporting
Several alleged rape victims who attend Brigham Young University are criticizing the private, religious school for punishing victims of sexual assault. They say victims who report being raped are investigated by the school's strict Honor Code office for other violations leading up to their assault, like drinking alcohol. Critics of the policy say this creates a chilling effect on rape victims who become worried about their standing at the university.

WHITTNEY EVANS, BYLINE: Brigham Young University sophomore Madeline Macdonald's story begins the week before finals last year with a match on the popular dating app Tinder.

MADELINE MACDONALD: He said, like, hey, like, let's go out, like, just get hot chocolate, meet up, like, just make sure we're real people. And I was like OK, I've only got like 20 minutes. And we're going to have to stay right near campus and, like, go to a public area - all that stuff, right?

EVANS: Macdonald says the man who was not a BYU student picked her up from her dorm, drove to a park in the mountains and sexually assaulted her. Unclear about her options, MacDonald says she went to the women services center on campus and was referred to the Title IX office. There she was given a document that said her case would be handed over to the responsible administrator, which for BYU students is the Honor Code office.

MACDONALD: And I was terrified because I was like if they decide that I wasn't sexually assaulted, if they say that there isn't enough evidence or they side against me, I had just confessed what they would say was consensual stuff.

EVANS: The Honor Code can be used to place students on academic probation, suspension or expulsion for premarital sex, dress code violations and drinking alcohol. Macdonald's Honor Code investigation was eventually dropped, but she says her case is evidence that the university's Title XI office and BYU's Honor Code office work hand-in-hand, despite BYU officials' claims that the two are separate.

MADI BARNEY: I don't understand how any human being could like read something like that and instead of being, like, oh, my gosh, we have to help this girl, they instead only called me in to let me know that I was probably going to be punished.

EVANS: The Honor Code office told Barney she couldn't register for classes until she cooperated with the school to address her Honor Code violations.

BARNEY: If I had not reported the rape, they would have never, ever known about these alleged violations.

EVANS: Barney's alleged attacker has been charged with a crime and is awaiting trial. She's filed a federal complaint against BYU's Title XI office claiming the school handled her case inappropriately. School spokesperson Carri Jenkins says BYU is reviewing its policies.

Hotblack Desiato

I was just about to post this when I saw you were discussing Spain already...

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/04/15/inenglish/1460715860_362031.html

Priest prevents lesbian mother from participating in baby’s christening, and said the christening was not vaild because one of the godparents was homosexual “and that is dangerous for the child.”

silverharp

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I was just about to post this when I saw you were discussing Spain already...

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/04/15/inenglish/1460715860_362031.html

Priest prevents lesbian mother from participating in baby’s christening, and said the christening was not vaild because one of the godparents was homosexual “and that is dangerous for the child.”

which hazard is the bigger one here? the mental gymnastic be gay and to stay a catholic and introduce it to your kids is difficult to fathom

recedite

But the priest, 70-year-old José Ramírez, offers a very different version of events. He says he told the couple from the beginning that only the biological mother could go up on the altar “because the Church establishes that only the biological parents have the right to baptize their children.”
Asked about adopted children, he said that “these are recognized by the Church, unlike same-sex marriage.”
Ramírez believes that the whole “to-do” at church had been planned ahead of time. “A lot of gays and lesbians came out screaming and hurling all kinds of insults at me,” he says.
The priest particularly remembers the words of the baby’s godfather: “He told me that he was homosexual and that when he had a child, he would have him christened 'because I bloody well say so’.”

Rules is rules.
If you don't agree with the club rules, why would you try to join the club?
Being abusive towards the priest is not helping their case either.

fran17

recedite wrote: »

Rules is rules.
If you don't agree with the club rules, why would you try to join the club?
Being abusive towards the priest is not helping their case either.

Indeed,a shameful act perpetrated solely for personal gain.Deeply upsetting,I'd imagine,for the 4 other families who were present on what should be such a joyous day.

Custardpi

recedite wrote: »

Rules is rules.
If you don't agree with the club rules, why would you try to join the club?

Because it's not always that easy. Many people have a desire for some form of "spirituality" in their lives. Some may gravitate towards New Age philosophies where presumably sexuality is less of an issue but others will be more comfortable in a traditional, established setting, whether that be Christian, Muslim, Jewish or whatever. It's perfectly possible (however contradictory it might appear to others) to be profoundly attached to one's religion both for the community it gives you & your own theological reasoning while at the same time having desires which that faith would view as "sinful". Despite that contradiction, making a complete break with the faith in which they were raised can often be just too emotionally wrenching for them to contemplate, even if they disagree with aspects of its teachings.

Links234

Someone's faith is a pretty deep, personal thing, and for that matter, a person's sexuality logically has no bearing on whether or not they believe in a deity. While it might not make sense to many here, it's hardly any different from how laissez faire most religious people are with their doctrine's rules, is it?

recedite

Links234 wrote: »

Someone's faith is a pretty deep, personal thing, and for that matter, a person's sexuality logically has no bearing on whether or not they believe in a deity.

Lots of people believe in a deity, but don't insist on signing up their infants for full RCC membership.
I don't accept accept that a sane person would want to sign up to a doctrine that opposes their deepest feelings, their "self" in fact.
You don't see a black person insisting on membership of the KKK, or a Jew insisting on joining ISIS. It can only be for mischievous reasons.

silverharp

Links234 wrote: »

Someone's faith is a pretty deep, personal thing, and for that matter, a person's sexuality logically has no bearing on whether or not they believe in a deity. While it might not make sense to many here, it's hardly any different from how laissez faire most religious people are with their doctrine's rules, is it?

to me it looks like they are just agitating , which is fine. I'd imagine even the catholic church has an element of "dont ask dont tell" if it was just about getting the baby baptised but rolling up as a couple is going to force the priest down a particular course of action.

Custardpi

recedite wrote: »

Lots of people believe in a deity, but don't insist on signing up their infants for full RCC membership.
I don't accept accept that a sane person would want to sign up to a doctrine that opposes their deepest feelings, their "self" in fact.
You don't see a black person insisting on membership of the KKK, or a Jew insisting on joining ISIS. It can only be for mischievous reasons.

This rather assumes that a person's choice to believe in a particular faith is based on logical & rational reasons. Even if attachment to Catholicism makes no sense whatsoever from an objective outsider's perspective that doesn't mean that for the individual concerned the religion doesn't play an incredibly important part in their lives & be something they'd want to pass onto the next generation, despite its flaws. Sure it might not seem "sane" to others but people's faith decisions often don't. In a saner world one could argue that religion would disappear altogether, but that's not the world we live in.

One eyed Jack

recedite wrote: »

Lots of people believe in a deity, but don't insist on signing up their infants for full RCC membership.
I don't accept accept that a sane person would want to sign up to a doctrine that opposes their deepest feelings, their "self" in fact.
You don't see a black person insisting on membership of the KKK, or a Jew insisting on joining ISIS. It can only be for mischievous reasons.

Well, that's entirely subjective depending upon how you measure whether a person is sane or insane -


http://gcvi.ie/