Facts About Israel and Palestine

Catsmokinpot

Catsmokinpot wrote:

and as for other religions trying to exterminate jews

I think it would be more accurate to say that just about every civilisation has tried at one stage or another to exterminate the Jews, from the Romans to the Russians to the Europeans etc. etc.

Catsmokinpot wrote:

did you know that the first war between israel and the arab league was because when israel was formed, they called for a "jew only" israel. and they were planning on getting the palestinians out of there, each time they have either provoked a war and 1967 war or the 6 day war they started.

and the fact that the UN has tried to prosecute Israel several times, for genocide.

actually, all the links to the wars are here in a previous post i made to someone else who didnt know a thing about the palestinians plight either.

You have not once mentioned the actions of Palestinians. Do you think it acceptable that a bus full of Jewish women and children who have no role in any military operation in Palestine can be blown apart by terrorist suicide bombers.

Gurgle

Deleted User wrote:

You have not once mentioned the actions of Palestinians. Do you think it acceptable that a bus full of Jewish women and children who have no role in any military operation in Palestine can be blown apart by terrorist suicide bombers.

Big & important difference:
Israel is a country.
They have responsibilities as an elected government.

The terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever are not representatives of a country or a government, they answer only to their own conscience. And regardless of religion you have to be pretty damn sure you and your people have been wronged to kill yourself as a political statement.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote:

The terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever are not representatives of a country or a government, they answer only to their own conscience.

That's not a defence at all. A mass murderer is hardly defended by saying 'well, he was only answerable to his own conscience'

Gurgle wrote:

And regardless of religion you have to be pretty damn sure you and your people have been wronged to kill yourself as a political statement.

True. But it might make it easier if your religion promises you everlasting compensation in the hereafter. Furthermore, all you can do is admire the courage of their convictions, it is not the same as saying their convictions are correct or admirable.

ChityWest

tallus wrote:

I agree to a point Popebenny. Just watched that video link that someone posted earlier very interesting.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=propaganda

I watched that the other day too and was very impressed by it - considering most of the participants are jewish (ex IDF or american/israeli peace activists) it is very well balanced and informative.

I think it does a good job of breaking down the whole situation regarding israel/palestine as it is covered by the media both in europe and the states.

It also goes a long way to destroying the myth that all israelis are in 100% behind what their government are doing. Its rare that the israeli's who oppose the israeli govt occupation/oppression of palestinians get a look-in.

Yay orla Guerin !

Squaddy

Very little of the OP's is accurate, or rather its so biased to be useless.

Squaddy wrote:

1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or
lease land in Israel? A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel, while the Palestinians who have been there for centuries are oppressed and persecuted.

Oppressed and Persecuted? Within the Borders of Israel? really.... Can you provide proof that those within the borders of Israel (recognised by the UN) are consistently oppressed & persecuted?

Sure there are restrictions on the right to citizenship & ownership of land within Israel. However, think of it another way........ The Palestinian groups have never once sued for peace. The Israeli's have no reason to trust Palestinians within their borders. Even when Israel did back down, and Hamas got elected, no effort was made to make peace. Instead there's their "right" to be at war with the Israeli Presence.

If you have a population within your border that will enter into terrorism, a nation will restrict their rights. This is little different to the way that Western nations are looking at the Muslim problem in the West.

One last thing to note. Prior to the equal recognition of Both Israel & Palestine, the people living there were British Subjects. No matter how far you go back you'll find there wasn't a Nation of Palestine no more than you'll find a Nation of Israel. in each instance other nations have controlled that land area. Its only since the UN mandate that either Nations came into being.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

That's not a defence at all. A mass murderer is hardly defended by saying 'well, he was only answerable to his own conscience

I don't think he ment it as a defence, just a realisation that you don't expect a terrorist organisation to act as anything but terrorists

There is little point demanding or expecting anything from a terrorist organisation, they aren't going to listen.

You can expect a modern democratic government like Israel to act in a more moral fashion though, especially if they wish to convince the world of the rightiousness of their case.

If they are both as bad as each other how can you objectively say one is good and one is bad.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote:

Big & important difference:
Israel is a country.
They have responsibilities as an elected government.

Apparently Palestine is a country also.

And Palestinians don't? Even before Hamas was elected, the Palestinian people had some input into the Palestinian Authority, whose role was to control/govern the people of Palestine. What? They had no responsibilities, or rather because they were unable to govern properly, we should forget it?

The terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever are not representatives of a country or a government, they answer only to their own conscience. And regardless of religion you have to be pretty damn sure you and your people have been wronged to kill yourself as a political statement.

They are now. But even back 10 years ago the respective "resistance" or "freedom" fighters had representatives that met with the Palestinian Authority. Just as the IRA did, they also had their political respresentatives that spoke for them. So because Israel is a fixed and visiable government it can be criticised, but because the Palestinian groups hide, they're not?

Catsmokinpot

Deleted User wrote:

I think it would be more accurate to say that just about every civilisation has tried at one stage or another to exterminate the Jews, from the Romans to the Russians to the Europeans etc. etc.

yes and the romans tried to exterminate all other ways of life too other than their own, us europeans have infested america, made slaves of africa, the russians nearly started a world war against america, persecution happens all the time, to everyone everywhere so whats your point?

Deleted User wrote:

You have not once mentioned the actions of Palestinians. Do you think it acceptable that a bus full of Jewish women and children who have no role in any military operation in Palestine can be blown apart by terrorist suicide bombers.

if at the links i posted to previous thread, it explains exactly what i think of suicide bombings happening every day,

here is the thread - have a look if you want
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054903341

i dont justify it, but i can show some understanding as to why this might happen. and the reasons behind it. it doesnt make it right at all.

Gurgle

Deleted User wrote:

So because Israel is a fixed and visiable government it can be criticised, but because the Palestinian groups hide, they're not?

The Israeli army is under the control of the fixed and visible elected government, so it is a valid point of view to assign some of the blame to the people of Israel for the atrocities carried out by their armed forces.

The suicide bombers are not similarily representatives of the Palestinian people but the Palestinian people are the ones who suffer in Israel's revenge attacks.

Sand

The suicide bombers are not similarily representatives of the Palestinian people

Hamas arent the Palestinian government? Since when? The Palestinians have directly endorsed the extermination of Israel and every Jewish inhabitant through their votes for Hamas....

Gurgle

Sand wrote:

Hamas arent the Palestinian government? Since when? The Palestinians have directly endorsed the extermination of Israel and every Jewish inhabitant through their votes for Hamas....

Hamas are the driving force behind the suicide bombings?
Care to provide any proof?
(since the ceasefire in april(?) 2005)

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

I'm sorry this deserves a rant...

Quote:
29. Did you know that the Zionists have been trying to destroy Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock for the last 50 years by digging underground tunnels beneath the sites to weaken its foundation causing it to collapse?

50 years, eh? Are they using Worms? Spoons, perhaps. Maybe that's just ****e you're talking there.
This is true and has been documented.


Lets have another one:
Quote:
2. Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

That's because the licence plates in the Palestinian authority zone are different to Israeli ones, like the ones in the north are differnt to ours.
No “Palestinian Authority Zone” in Israeli… in fact Israeli has invaded into Palestine and moved the original borders set up after WWII… but what your are trying to say is Prods in southern Ireland having different plates to Catholics in the south.

Next:
Let's take these ones together:
Quote:
5. Did you know that the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars?

6. Did you know that US aid to Israel ($3.0 billion annually) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel.

7. Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel's main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors.

Roughly the same that the USA gets from Saudi, Kewait, Jordan (yep!), Turkey, Egypt, Oman, Quatar, Sudan and, funnily enough, the Palestinian Authority, who also get a huge amount of money from the EU, which Yasser hid away in Swizerland.
This I presume is your opinion as there is NO evidence to back your statement up anywhere.

heigh ho, on we go:
Quote:
11. Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it?

This is most interesting. When and where did this happen? Please quote your source.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a U.S. Navy intelligence ship, USS Liberty (AGTR-5), in international waters about 12.5 nautical miles from the coast of the Sinai Peninsula, north of El Arish, by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967. It occurred during the Six-Day War, a conflict between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The attack killed 34 U.S. servicemen and wounded at least 171.
Israel, the CIA and NSA all held the same position on the incident; that it was a case of mistaken identity and was entirely due to error. Israel contends that it was assured by the United States that no U.S. ships were in the area, and that its air and naval forces wrongly identified the Liberty at various stages as either a Russian intelligence ship that was providing information to the Arabs, or as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir.
Critics assert that the attack was a premeditated and deliberate Israeli attack on the American intelligence ship. They say that it is not credible that the Liberty could be mistaken for the El Quseir which was a quarter its size. Critics include some of the surviving crew members, such as James Ennes, and some former U.S. government officials, including then-CIA director Richard Helms and then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk as well as Admiral Thomas Hinman Moorer, former Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


Next, like this one:
Quote:
13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?

Did you know that our constitution does the same for Irish and the Irish culture!!!!! AGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
Our constitution does not a policy of maintaining a distinct Catholic character. May have one for the IRISH culture but it does no mention religion… you obviously did not read the statement… big difference between Jewish character and an Israel character

Onwards:
Quote:
16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads?

as recently as the 70's and into the 90's employers could also restrict jobs in Ireland on basis of gender, race and religon!!!!
Well if it was done here it was against the law here… in Israel it was the law.
Quote:
"The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."

and that Palestinians and the president of Iran says the same about Isreal, and he's building nukes!!!
And look what’s happing to him over it… but nothing was/is ever said to Israel
Quote:
17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public?

And Fianna Fail and Fine Geal use american PR companies as well!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!
Fianna Fail and Fine Geal pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Ireland to the American public…
Well that’s a new one on me… they might use a US PR compant to premot themselves… but to permute amicera to the irish… I don’t think so.

Quote:
26. Did you know that despite what is widely perpetuated and written in the history books that the Arabs attacked Israel in the 1967 war, it was Israel who attacked the Arab countries first, capturing Jerusalem and the West Bank, and called the attack a pre-emptive strike?

This is a classic one, its not only a lie, but ALL THE HISTORY BOOKS ARE WRONG!!! so there's no point in going to history books and records to disprove it, as they're all lying!!!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

April 7 - Six-Day War: Israeli fighters shoot down seven Syrian MIG-21s.


Next time do a little research before you make a fool out of your self…?
That was the worst attempt of rebutting these facts I have seen…
Its people like you that prove these facts…

TIMMAY!

popebenny16 well said, completely agree, People should stop talking rubbish and rehashing unreliable information. What need to happen is the real issues to be discussed.

TIMMAY!

woops I didnt realise there was so many pages in this thread

Catsmokinpot

TIMMAY! wrote:

popebenny16 well said, completely agree, People should stop talking rubbish and rehashing unreliable information. What need to happen is the real issues to be discussed.

people should stop covering up the truth and acknowledge whats actually going on between palestine and israel.

[edit]add these to the list

israeli bulldozer kills american peace protestor.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/

israel accused of warcrimes.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/2001/0807isrl.htm
[/edit]

tallus

The USS Liberty video link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7267134620652018859&q=Uss+Liberty
It's interesting to look at.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote:

The Israeli army is under the control of the fixed and visible elected government, so it is a valid point of view to assign some of the blame to the people of Israel for the atrocities carried out by their armed forces.

The suicide bombers are not similarily representatives of the Palestinian people but the Palestinian people are the ones who suffer in Israel's revenge attacks.

Sorry gurgle, but thats a very convenient point of view. Because israel has an elected government, the Israeli people can be assigned blame for the atrocities committed? Whereas the Palestinian people bear no responsibility for the acts made in their name?

Thats a cop out. The Palestinian people support these terrorist/resistance groups by either voluntary support, or even by ignoring their actions. Ignorance is not an excuse. These groups would find it very difficult if not impossible to operate without the support of the people of Palestine.

And Suicide bombing is only part of the "resistance". What about rocket attacks, small arms fire, ambushes, car bombs etc? Is it only the acts of the suicide bombers that these people have no responsibility for?

Catsmokinpot

Deleted User wrote:

Sorry gurgle, but thats a very convenient point of view. Because israel has an elected government, the Israeli people can be assigned blame for the atrocities committed? Whereas the Palestinian people bear no responsibility for the acts made in their name?

Thats a cop out. The Palestinian people support these terrorist/resistance groups by either voluntary support, or even by ignoring their actions. Ignorance is not an excuse. These groups would find it very difficult if not impossible to operate without the support of the people of Palestine.

And Suicide bombing is only part of the "resistance". What about rocket attacks, small arms fire, ambushes, car bombs etc? Is it only the acts of the suicide bombers that these people have no responsibility for?

they all have responsibility for everything they do. i think hes trying to point out that they aren't the only ones to blame for the continuing situation. when you have an army that is well equiped, well funded(by america) it kind of makes the playing field uneven, and when you have sticks and stones, against an armoured tank brigade, with some of the best tanks in the world, and you have f16s and a well equiped army, and they go around knocking down palestinian houses, and specifically targetting young palestinian men when they started settling.

war isn't faught to be nice or to be fair, its faught to be won, if the technological playing field is too uneven they choose the last resort, its not nice, i dont justify it, but you can understand why someone would come to the conclusion that that is the only way when faced with such unbelievable opression.

war isn't nice, so what if israeli women and children get killed, israeli men get killed too, and so do palestinian men, women and children, its all the same, its all wrong, but israel isn't as righteous as everyone thinks.

Catsmokinpot

Catsmokinpot wrote:

they all have responsibility for everything they do. i think hes trying to point out that they aren't the only ones to blame for the continuing situation.

I never suggested that they were the only ones to blame. Israel bears its own responsibility for its own actions that continue to inflame the situation. What I didn't like was the excusing of terrorism simply because the of the difference in governing. That the Palestinian people bear their own responsibility for allowing the situation to be as it is.

when you have an army that is well equiped, well funded(by america) it kind of makes the playing field uneven, and when you have sticks and stones, against an armoured tank brigade, with some of the best tanks in the world, and you have f16s and a well equiped army, and they go around knocking down palestinian houses, and specifically targetting young palestinian men when they started settling.

Modern Warfare has shown ever since before Vietnam that with the advent of global telecommunications, human rights groups, and mass media, its no longer politically or militarily wise to conquer a region. At least those related with Western nations (I don't think warfare in Africa or S.America get the same attention western and M.Eastern countries do).

No longer can a westernised nation pacify a country to completion (At least without intervention being highly possible). Israel can't complete a conquest because it can't destroy the rebels (or terrorists) in its entirity. We saw this in wars like Vietnam. The North of Ireland. The Congo. Iraq. and....... Palestine. Conventional Warfare is designed for Conventional warfare. Tanks are next to useless in cities. Air Superiority is useless in dense urban centres (where helicopters are vulnerable, and bombers cause more public backlash than the results received). Soldiers are turned into part-police, which soldiers should never be.

As for technology, or the diversity of weapons/equipment to Israeli troops in comparison to the Palestinian forces... Why give up your only advantage? Why fight with your enemies tools? Would you find it more acceptable if Israeli troops acted as suicide bombers, or used guerilla warfare techniques? Different tools, different styles. Neither side exactly hesitates with their triggers.............

Israel can't win the War, and the Palestinians refuse to stop their war (Or stop supporting those that would continue the war in their behalf). Surrender for Israel means oblivion. What do you do to any enemy you can't defeat or sue for peace with?

war isn't faught to be nice or to be fair, its faught to be won, if the technological playing field is too uneven they choose the last resort, its not nice, i dont justify it, but you can understand why someone would come to the conclusion that that is the only way when faced with such unbelievable opression.

Yup. I can. I can also see the problems with the current alternatives. A truce with Palestine doesn't guarantee peace. The Palestinians won't hold back their own attacks. They won't even renounce their war. Why should Israel help a fallen enemy get back up to strike again?

I haven't seen any action by either the Palestinian people for electing Hamas, or Hamas themselves actually looking for a peacefull settlement, with complete peace. I can't summon up any trust in the Palestinian groups not to start killing again, just as I won't be suprised when I read on boards that its entirely justified.

war isn't nice, so what if israeli women and children get killed, israeli men get killed too, and so do palestinian men, women and children, its all the same, its all wrong, but israel isn't as righteous as everyone thinks.

Its funny but I've been a poster to the politics board here since I started. I stopped posting there abt 2 years ago, and hop in the odd time, instead of ghosting.

I can remember the number of times I've seen rightous comments being ascribed to Israel [exaggeration: I don't know the actual number :rolleyes: but in comparison to the pro-palestinian comments, they stand out as being rare]. On Irish boards, Palestine is held to the light and almost worshipped. I think its because people like to cheer the weaker combatent. Its funny that we rarely see any peace movements that ask for Palestinian resistance groups to stop killing, whereas I've often seen rallies decrying the barbaric behaviour of Israeli troops.

I'm not blind to Israeli atrocities. They're well documented, on just about every politics forum I've posted on. However I think you might be a bit blind if you're seeing alot of support for Israel in the Palestinian conflict.

Whats funny, is that I originally started getting interested in the Israel/palestinian issue, because I wanted to show that Palestine wasn't as righteous as everyone thought or thinks.

Catsmokinpot

Deleted User wrote:

I never suggested that they were the only ones to blame. Israel bears its own responsibility for its own actions that continue to inflame the situation. What I didn't like was the excusing of terrorism simply because the of the difference in governing. That the Palestinian people bear their own responsibility for allowing the situation to be as it is.

sorry m8 didnt mean to rant but from looking at your last post i made a pre-emptive strike on any possible "hail Israel" rant you might have headed in the direction of.

Deleted User wrote:

Modern Warfare has shown ever since before Vietnam that with the advent of global telecommunications, human rights groups, and mass media, its no longer politically or militarily wise to conquer a region. At least those related with Western nations (I don't think warfare in Africa or S.America get the same attention western and M.Eastern countries do).

No longer can a westernised nation pacify a country to completion (At least without intervention being highly possible). Israel can't complete a conquest because it can't destroy the rebels (or terrorists) in its entirity. We saw this in wars like Vietnam. The North of Ireland. The Congo. Iraq. and....... Palestine. Conventional Warfare is designed for Conventional warfare. Tanks are next to useless in cities. Air Superiority is useless in dense urban centres (where helicopters are vulnerable, and bombers cause more public backlash than the results received). Soldiers are turned into part-police, which soldiers should never be.

true, but governments like america have pretty good control of their media, and its getting better every day, you don't see the violence on the television, but you do see the body count rising.

Deleted User wrote:

As for technology, or the diversity of weapons/equipment to Israeli troops in comparison to the Palestinian forces... Why give up your only advantage? Why fight with your enemies tools? Would you find it more acceptable if Israeli troops acted as suicide bombers, or used guerilla warfare techniques? Different tools, different styles. Neither side exactly hesitates with their triggers.............

Israel can't win the War, and the Palestinians refuse to stop their war (Or stop supporting those that would continue the war in their behalf). Surrender for Israel means oblivion. What do you do to any enemy you can't defeat or sue for peace with?

im not saying they should stop using the weapons, whats done is done, but the reason everyone dislikes america, is because they intervened, funded israel and have been propping up this israeli regime that's been suppressing palestine for years. the 6 day war was instigated by israel, they invaded, they took the west bank, they took the gaza strip, they did it all, before that there wasn't war for nearly 20 years. they started this, and america gave them the weapons to do it, if they didn't, then israel wouldn't have attacked. they blame the palestinians, but it was their fault.

Deleted User wrote:

Yup. I can. I can also see the problems with the current alternatives. A truce with Palestine doesn't guarantee peace. The Palestinians won't hold back their own attacks. They won't even renounce their war. Why should Israel help a fallen enemy get back up to strike again?

I haven't seen any action by either the Palestinian people for electing Hamas, or Hamas themselves actually looking for a peacefull settlement, with complete peace. I can't summon up any trust in the Palestinian groups not to start killing again, just as I won't be suprised when I read on boards that its entirely justified.

i think israel needs to apologise, they had no right to do what they did. although in my experience when you've wronged someone for so long, sorry isn't good enough and it might be too late. but its a start.

Deleted User wrote:

I can remember the number of times I've seen rightous comments being ascribed to Israel [exaggeration: I don't know the actual number :rolleyes: but in comparison to the pro-palestinian comments, they stand out as being rare]. On Irish boards, Palestine is held to the light and almost worshipped. I think its because people like to cheer the weaker combatent. Its funny that we rarely see any peace movements that ask for Palestinian resistance groups to stop killing, whereas I've often seen rallies decrying the barbaric behaviour of Israeli troops.

I'm not blind to Israeli atrocities. They're well documented, on just about every politics forum I've posted on. However I think you might be a bit blind if you're seeing alot of support for Israel in the Palestinian conflict.

look as you said yourself they are resistance groups, the palestinians didn't go looking for this conflict, although they do have the childish desire for revenge which is hard to control and which i think deep down every human has, but every time there has been a war israel has provoked or instigated it.

i don't see alot of support for Israel, but when i do, i set people straight, its wrong to go supporting a country thats supressing people especially when they started it.

i don't think palestinians are right to be doing what they have done so far but that's because i think fighting doesn't solve anything in general. i do believe that defending yourself with your only means possible, when your being occupied by another country is acceptable.

Catsmokinpot

Catsmokinpot wrote:

sorry m8 didnt mean to rant but from looking at your last post i made a pre-emptive strike on any possible "hail Israel" rant you might have headed in the direction of.

no worries, I feel the same abt pro palestinian posts.

true, but governments like america have pretty good control of their media, and its getting better every day, you don't see the violence on the television, but you do see the body count rising.

Which is released by official sources either intentionally or as leaks which might or might no be true.

im not saying they should stop using the weapons, whats done is done, but the reason everyone dislikes america, is because they intervened, funded israel and have been propping up this israeli regime that's been suppressing palestine for years. the 6 day war was instigated by israel, they invaded, they took the west bank, they took the gaza strip, they did it all, before that there wasn't war for nearly 20 years. they started this, and america gave them the weapons to do it, if they didn't, then israel wouldn't have attacked. they blame the palestinians, but it was their fault.i think israel needs to apologise, they had no right to do what they did. although in my experience when you've wronged someone for so long, sorry isn't good enough and it might be too late. but its a start.look as you said yourself they are resistance groups, the palestinians didn't go looking for this conflict, although they do have the childish desire for revenge which is hard to control and which i think deep down every human has, but every time there has been a war israel has provoked or instigated it.

You might want to recheck your sources. Every war was instigated by Israel? hardly. The Arab countries started the first war all by themselves, involving Palestine in the process by making it the battleground. Palestine fell because it didn't resist the Arab forces using it as a launch site for their attacks.

Both sides looked for the war, and they got what they wanted.

As for my calling them resistance groups, its just a name. They're no different than terrorists. For that is what they perform. Terrorism.

i don't see alot of support for Israel, but when i do, i set people straight, its wrong to go supporting a country thats supressing people especially when they started it.

From my own standpoint, I see that Palestinians did involve themselves in the war that ended up with their country being occupied. Did they supply large amounts of troops and military resources>? Nope. But they aided the grand coalition of Arab states that sought to wipe the stain of Israel from the map. That is their responsibility.

So in essence you're defending palestine because you belive that Israel started the war? So you're not defending Palestinian retalitory strikes or the methods they use. You just ignore that.

i don't think palestinians are right to be doing what they have done so far but that's because i think fighting doesn't solve anything in general. i do believe that defending yourself with your only means possible, when your being occupied by another country is acceptable.

Perhaps actively seek peace, when violence has shown not to work?

solskjaer20

It amazes me how people can stick up for Israel here.

solskjaer20

solskjaer20 wrote:

It amazes me how people can stick up for Israel here.

Depends what you mean by sticking up for Israel. If you mean posters ignore Israel's resettlement policies, their murdering of civilians, and occupation of Palestine, then you're a bit off. I've never argued against their actions in Palestine, and I've blamed/criticised them for their actions many times in the past.

However, I get annoyed when I see Israel being accused of things it didn't do. I also get annoyed at the lack of equal criticism of Palestine simply because they didn't have an effective government. Its funny really. Israel gets slated at every opportunity on most boards, whereas Palestine gets off skot free. An Israeli Tank kills some children, and there's a rampage on these boards. However, if there's a rocket attack or a bomb by Palestinian forces that kills Israeli children, there's hardly a murmer.

You might see there's alot of people defending Israel, I certainly don't. Perhaps opinions have changed since Hamas have gotten elected, and they refuse to give up their war despite public support for it. I guess its hard to support Palestine now that they have a government, and you can no longer ignore their actions quite so easily.

Gurgle

Deleted User wrote:

An Israeli Tank kills some children, and there's a rampage on these boards. However, if there's a rocket attack or a bomb by Palestinian forces that kills Israeli children, there's hardly a murmer.

There are no Palestinian forces, there are terrorist cells who answer to no-one. The Israeli tankers answer to the government, who answer in turn to the people.
Thats the point.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote:

There are no Palestinian forces, there are terrorist cells who answer to no-one. The Israeli tankers answer to the government, who answer in turn to the people.
Thats the point.

As I've said before thats a cop-out. Where do they get their funding & weapons from? Do they have no ties to either the present Hamas government, or any of the more public terrorist factions? Do the Palestinian people have no involvement in their existance?

Sure, there will be minor groupings or individuals that make attacks on Israeli forces/civilians which will be indpendent. The same occurs with Israeli's bent on revenge. However the majority will have some ties to the established and larger groups within Palestine.

Hamas has claimed many attacks in the past. Do you feel that the Palestinian people have no responsibility for Hamas's actions?