Facts About Israel and Palestine

Squaddy

Deleted User wrote:

Yeah, they made them out of sausage meat and magic márla. The Palestinians who volunteer to go on missions to blow up women and children are entirely innocent.

This is Israels fault, they made them do it! They occupied Jerusalem it was never theres, the place beolgs to whoever lives there. You dont wnat them to fight back? They killed innocent people when they occupied Jerusalem, they fired rockets and attacked with planes, they stopped money going into Palestine and people are suffering they need basic medicine. Kids cant go to school

Ummmmmmm, the IRA are terrorists.

So like i said fighting back is terrorism!?! Where did you hear this on Q&A?

That whole beating fellows to death in pubs, killing Gardai, bank robberies etc. etc. pass you by or were they part of some glorious fight for freedom?

Thats nothing compared to what the English did is it? They occupied us for 800 years! Didnt we get them out of our country! YEs! Also the english had admitted to commiting many of those bombings!

Squaddy

Sunny_Dublin wrote:

you travel, you meet people? clearly you have never been to israel, yet you take the right to comment on it in a way which is (i repeat this here) not very clever, not very close to reality and taken from a source which has clearly no interest in leading an open and honest discussion.

the fact that in your signature you are quoting some of the biggest idiots and sadists in the world's history speaks for itself...

Have you been to Israel??

popebenny16

Since you're still here, would you like to reply to my post?

scop

Isreal is an inverted Nazi state, with its very own moncultural ideals, minority discrimination, and hell thanks for all the pissed off young Muslims in European cities bringing there favoured tactics over here.

The liberal bug that lets European socities rot from the inside out never affected Isreal nor do any of the rules apply to this state, and no crap about the Holocaust, how many people died in the war in general, under Stalin, Armenian genocide anyone.

There is a powerful Jewish lobby influence in the U.S.A., one that can be discerned from those wonderful (potentially amazing if used for real causes) aid packages, and indifference to Isreali flaunting of US resolutions, teh Geneva convention, and a whole myriad of human rights abuses.

Giblet

Squaddy wrote:

This is Israels fault, they made them do it! They occupied Jerusalem it was never theres, the place beolgs to whoever lives there. You dont wnat them to fight back? They killed innocent people when they occupied Jerusalem, they fired rockets and attacked with planes, they stopped money going into Palestine and people are suffering they need basic medicine. Kids cant go to school




So like i said fighting back is terrorism!?! Where did you hear this on Q&A?

I suppose posting verbatim from a pro islam website is hard research!



Thats nothing compared to what the English did is it? They occupied us for 800 years! Didnt we get them out of our country! YEs! Also the english had admitted to commiting many of those bombings!
OH LOAL 800 YEARS! Where have I heard that? Jesus do you have anything beyond Leaving Cert History? It isn't terrorism if it was done to you first? Did we get them out of our country? Really DID WE?! OMG 800 YEAR ROFFLE!

JESUS CHRIST!
You are horrible at debate.

popebenny16

The liberal bug that lets European socities rot from the inside out

That's intersting. Could you elaborate on it?

Sunny_Dublin

Sunny_Dublin wrote:

you travel, you meet people?

He's 17, lives in Drawda and likes to get drunk according to the link in his own signature. I guess he must have been VERY young when he did his fact finding tour of meeting people who have been to the Middle East. Of course that doesn't disentitle him to an opinion, but...sorry, just see he likes Nizlopi and Westlife, he is officially not entitled to any opinion...

popebenny16

but...sorry, just see he likes Nizlopi and Westlife, he is officially not entitled to any opinion...

hope you're joking there or else fall in line with him

Sunny_Dublin

firstly, yes, i have been to isreal. and not only for a holiday...


secondly i also have just been on your myspace site...
and what i saw was rather entertaining....
you are a 17 year old boy who clearly has a lot to learn to understand a thing or two. also quite unlikely that you have "travelled" other than with your parents...
you also are apparently listening to bands who would spit at you if they ever heard you saying these things. which makes you either a hypocrite or somebody who is not very well informed.... the latter is backed up by your comments above...
i have to go now. have better things to do than to argue with a kid who doesn't know any better...

popebenny16

I'm off home meself, but i'll log in later on to see where this has got to.

Thirdfox

It seemed that the list is very short on facts about Palestine...

tunaman

Everybody who is defending Israel and their illegal occupation should educate themselves by watching this brilliant documentary first before making any more uninformed comments.

Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=propaganda

Notice how nobody is trying to defend suicide bombers.

tunaman

tunaman wrote:

Notice how nobody is trying to defend suicide bombers.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Squaddy wrote:

This is Israels fault, they made them do it!

That looks like a defenc, albeit very weak.

Look, this has descended into high farce. It is the antithesis of a debate on the issues. Maybe a starting point would be to head over to politics anyway.

"27:Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?"

I laughed so much at this one!Phd's!Is there even a university in Palestine?

WhiteWashMan

Squaddy wrote:

1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or
lease land in Israel? A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel, while the Palestinians who have been there for centuries are oppressed and persecuted.

2. Did you know that instead of sewing an insignia on clothing to distinguish race (like the Germans did to the Jews before WW2), Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

3. Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel?

4. Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron's 120, 000 Palestinians?

5. Did you know that the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year from American tax dollars?

6. Did you know that US aid to Israel ($3.0 billion annually) exceeds the aid the US grants to the entire African continent? This aid is used both to buy American weaponry and to buy arms made in Israel.

7. Did you know that Israel is awaiting an additional $4 billion worth of American military hardware, including new F-16s and Apache and Blackhawk helicopters. As Israel's main ally and supporter internationally, the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors.

8. Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used? (In 1978, 1979 and 1982 during fighting in Lebanon, and once after Israel's bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.)

9. Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?

10. Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces?

11. Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it?

12. Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?

13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?

14. Did you know that Israel's current Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally and directly responsible" for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood?

15. Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? The terrified laborers who gathered in an area of southern Israel known as Rishon Lezion (known to Palestinians by its Arabic name Oyon Qara) handed their ID cards to the Israeli soldier. The soldiers ordered the distressed laborers to kneel down and face the ground and unexpectedly showered them with a barrage of bullets, killing seven and wounding many others. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime.

16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads?

17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public?

18. Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party--Molodet--which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories?

19. Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948?

20. Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians? Speaking at the widely broadcast sermon marking the last Passover, he declared of the Palestinians: "The Lord shall return their deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world. It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."

21. Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?

22. Did you know that Palestinian Christians are considered the "living stones" of Christianity because they are the direct descendants of the disciples of Jesus Christ? And the Palestinian Christians stand united with their Muslim brethren in the struggle against the Israeli occupation.

23. Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel's High Court of Justice, torture has continued unabated by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?

24. Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?

25. Did you know that the right of self-determination is guaranteed to every human being under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [December, 1948], yet Palestinians were/are expected to negotiate for this right under the Oslo Accords?

26. Did you know that despite what is widely perpetuated and written in the history books that the Arabs attacked Israel in the 1967 war, it was Israel who attacked the Arab countries first, capturing Jerusalem and the West Bank, and called the attack a pre-emptive strike?

27. Did you know that, as an occupying power, Israel has a particular responsibility under the Geneva Conventions to protect Palestinian civilians?

28. Did you know that, despite Ariel Sharon's public call for a unilateral ceasefire, Israeli soldiers have not stopped shooting, killing or bulldozing Palestinian homes? The most recent example of this is the murder of three innocent women who were shot by an Israeli tank as they sat in their tent!

29. Did you know that the Zionists have been trying to destroy Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock for the last 50 years by digging underground tunnels beneath the sites to weaken its foundation causing it to collapse?

30. after hours is not our political parade ground. do it somewhere else.

31. thread moved to humanities at a request.

32. you were warned before by giblet. banned.

popebenny16

Whitewashman, according to my screen he isnt banned and i hope he isnt.

If people like him are banned he can brag about how he has been "oppressed" and "denied his freedom of speech" whereas if he isnt banned people like me can keep an eye out for him and when he's online post messages to him to come back and defend and justify threads such as this. I've asked him in the thread to justify his statements, he has ignored my requests, seeks to change the issue, but ends up looking a fool doing so. It's a tatic that I have used elsewhere on boards and I find that if you ban him he can always say later "oh I had just the reply for him, but I couldnt post it"

Let them post, let them start threads, and let us debate with them and show them up when they are wrong, and as you can see from my long reply up there he is not entirely wrong (eg arial sharon was found guilty, that's a fact) but then agin he isnt entirely right either, even if he has simply cut and pasted it from an other website.

Thirdfox

Like Holmes J. says in Abrams v. US - let the good ideas drive out the bad. A fascinating defence of free speech ...sorry stuck in law exam revision mode

Snickers Man

Sajan wrote:

Well... Fact 5 and 6 still cotradict themselves..

Not really. There is a discrepancy in the numbers. That's not the same as contradiction.

[/pedantry]

tallus

popebenny16 wrote:

Whitewashman, according to my screen he isnt banned and i hope he isnt.

If people like him are banned he can brag about how he has been "oppressed" and "denied his freedom of speech" whereas if he isnt banned people like me can keep an eye out for him and when he's online post messages to him to come back and defend and justify threads such as this. I've asked him in the thread to justify his statements, he has ignored my requests, seeks to change the issue, but ends up looking a fool doing so. It's a tatic that I have used elsewhere on boards and I find that if you ban him he can always say later "oh I had just the reply for him, but I couldnt post it"

Let them post, let them start threads, and let us debate with them and show them up when they are wrong, and as you can see from my long reply up there he is not entirely wrong (eg arial sharon was found guilty, that's a fact) but then agin he isnt entirely right either, even if he has simply cut and pasted it from an other website.

Are you saying that because he copied and pasted the information that it's not true ?

Tom Dunne

Lads, just look at a few more of the corkers Squaddy has posted:

here

here

and a personal favourite here

Seriously, he should have his own forum.

I haven't enjoyed a thread in so long. Please don't ban him.

Snickers Man

OK So I've been to Israel. Worked there in fact. So off the top of my head and based merely on memory from the reading I've done on the subject, here's my critique.

Squaddy wrote:

1. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or
lease land in Israel?

Not sure about this. But I suspect it could be true. Certainly the property rights of Arabs are circumscribed by the Israeli authorities who have almost limitless powers of appropriation of land for 'military purposes.'

A Jew from any country in the world is guaranteed citizenship in Israel,

This is true. The Act of Return guarantees the right of any Jew to live in Israel.

2. Did you know that.. Palestinian license plates in Israel are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

I don't think this differentiates between Jew and Arab, but between residents of the 'occupied territories' and those of the rest of Israel proper.

3. Did you know that East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights are all considered by the entire world community, including the United States and the United Nations, to be occupied territory and NOT part of the State of Israel?

This is true. But then even Israel acknowledges that the West Bank and Gaza are occupied territories. Hence the different licence plates.

4. Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories?

Probably true. I know that the late King Hussein of Jordan once said that he could see no reason why he would ever go to war with Israel ever again..... except water.

5. Did you know that the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year .

7. .. the United States is committed to maintaining the Jewish state's "qualitative edge" in weapons over its neighbors.

That Israel is the biggest single recipient of US aid in the world, whatever the exact figures are, is not denied.

8. Did you know that the U.S. administration has notified Congress on numerous occasions that Israel has violated the rules on how US-supplied weapons are used?

That Israel has a policy of retribution on Palestinian (and earlier Lebanese) civilians for 'terrorist' actions perpetrated by their compatriots cannot be plausibly denied.

9. Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?

The first part of this is true. But I'm not sure that Iran has signed non proliferation treaties.

10. Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war have been summarily executed by the Israeli forces?

They've certainly been caught doing this on several occasions.

11. Did you know that Israel .. attacked a US warship in international waters (the USS Liberty), killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors and the US did nothing about it?

This is certainly true and amply documented.

12. Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?

Whatever the exact figure, they've certainly ignored a fair few. Mind you the UN once passed a notion saying that 'Zionism=racism' which didn't exactly endear it to Israelis.

As against that, the legal basis for Israel's very existence is a UN resolution which partitioned what was British Mandate Palestine into Jewish and Arab areas.

13. Did you know that Israel is explicitly dedicated to the policy of maintaining a distinct Jewish character?

No **** Sherlock!! I think most countries have some sort of commitment to a particular cultural/religious outlook. We recognise a dying language as our primary tongue. You can't become head of state of the UK unless you're an Anglican. etc

14. Did you know that Israel's current Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, was found by an Israeli court to be "personally and directly responsible" for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre in Lebanon where more than a thousand innocent Palestinian men, women, and children were axed to death or lined up and shot in cold blood?

True. Report of Kahan commission into the massacres of Sabra and Chatila in 1982. Mind you their figures for the dead, while only an estimate, were less than those quoted above.

15. Did you know that on May 20, 1990, a group of unarmed Palestinian laborers were lined up and murdered by an Israeli solider as they sat waiting for transportation back to Gaza? ….. Needless to say, the soldier was not charged with any crime.

Don't know about this incident. Certainly there have been incidents when Jewish extremists ran amok and massacred Palestinian civilians. Baruch Goldstein springs to mind. Don't think they have been allowed get off scot free, though.

16. Did you know that until as recently as 1988, Israelis were permitted to run "Jews Only" job ads?

Nope. Didn't know that.

17. Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays six US public relations firms to promote a "positive image" of Israel to the American public?

Hardly a crime against humanity.

18. Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party--Molodet--which advocates ethnic cleansing by openly calling for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the occupied territories?

There are some right weirdos in Israeli politics, and because of their party list system of PR, a few of them get elected to the Knesset.

19. Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the forced expulsion of Arabs from all Palestininan territory in 1948?

Not sure about the specifics. However, he had no compulsion about ethnically cleansing Arabs from strategically vital areas and he envisaged an Israeli border with Lebanon much further north than it currently is.

20. Did you know that the former chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, who is also a founder and spiritual leader of the religious Shas party (Israel's third largest political party) openly advocates a 'Final Solution' to annihilate the Palestinians?

See answer 18

21. Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?

Nope. But then, the Palestinians have their own '#granny rule' which allows a lot of people to call themselves Palestinian, although they live elsewhere.

22. Did you know that Palestinian Christians ….. stand united with their Muslim brethren in the struggle against the Israeli occupation.

I think I once heard that most Arabs living in Israel proper (ie outside the occupied territories) were Christian. Certainly some of the most militant PLO people eg George Habash, Nayef Hawatmeh etc have been Christian, not Muslim.

23. Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel's High Court of Justice, torture has continued unabated by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?

What do the Americans call that? 'Enhanced interrogation' or something like that?

24. Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?

Well there's precious little else for them to do.

25. Did you know that the right of self-determination is guaranteed to every human being under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [December, 1948], yet Palestinians were/are expected to negotiate for this right under the Oslo Accords?

Well they're not the only disputed territory in the world

26. Did you know that despite what is widely perpetuated and written in the history books that the Arabs attacked Israel in the 1967 war, it was Israel who attacked the Arab countries first, capturing Jerusalem and the West Bank, and called the attack a pre-emptive strike?

None of the books I've ever read said that the Arabs attacked Israel first in 1967. But they were certainly threatening to do so. eg closing the straits of Tiran (?) to Israeli shipping, ordering UN observers out of the Sinai buffer zone etc etc

27. Did you know that, as an occupying power, Israel has a particular responsibility under the Geneva Conventions to protect Palestinian civilians?

Probably true.

28. Did you know that, despite Ariel Sharon's public call for a unilateral ceasefire, Israeli soldiers have not stopped shooting, killing or bulldozing Palestinian homes?

that Sharon is an absolute bastard is not denied by any sentient human being. Including many Israelis.

29. Did you know that the Zionists have been trying to destroy Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock for the last 50 years by digging underground tunnels beneath the sites to weaken its foundation causing it to collapse?

Nope. And I don't actually believe that one. It's a holy site to Jews as well.

BuffyBot

Whitewashman, according to my screen he isnt banned and i hope he isnt

I think he means from After Hours...

popebenny16

Ah god. I mean, as i said above, soem of the things he said are correct, some are wrong. No, just because he lifted it off a site dosnt mean its wrong, but have a look at the site itself before you go jumping to conclusions.

And then i look at tom's links and find the bloody illuminatii. You just despair, dont you?

Personally I believe there are two guys in a cave making up all these conspiracy therories!

tallus

I agree to a point Popebenny. Just watched that video link that someone posted earlier very interesting.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=propaganda

Frank Grimes

Deleted User wrote:

"27:Did you know that despite every Israeli attempt to disrupt Palestinian education, Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?"

I laughed so much at this one!Phd's!Is there even a university in Palestine?

Why do you find that idea so amusing?
Universities in Palestine

tom dunne

tom dunne wrote:

Lads, just look at a few more of the corkers Squaddy has posted:

here

here

and a personal favourite here

I dunno about your favourite. That one about Bush and Kerry being devil worshippers is good, but then again the one about the USA introducing AIDS on purpose is also very good. Close call.

Dave!

tom dunne wrote:

Lads, just look at a few more of the corkers Squaddy has posted:

here

here

and a personal favourite here

Seriously, he should have his own forum.

I haven't enjoyed a thread in so long. Please don't ban him.

lol! Absolute mad-man.

Catsmokinpot

popebenny16 wrote:

Do you know that there are several hundred million people in the world whose religion commands them to destroy Isreal and everyone in it?

And there are plenty of them who'd kill themselves to bring it about?

That's gas.

This is a classic one, its not only a lie, but ALL THE HISTORY BOOKS ARE WRONG!!! so there's no point in going to history books and records to disprove it, as they're all lying!!!

As for the rest of the points, some I dont know about and cannot comment. O

One thing I will say, though, is this and I hope that you get this far, it's important:

I do not support the occupation by Isreal of Palestinian land, Isreal should go back to the pre-1967 boarders, there is no right to be beyond them. Also, the wall is a discracefull infliction on the human rights of the palestinians.

However, you are not helping the cause of the palestinians and you are not helping to resolve a complex and emotional issue by posting tripe like this anywhere.

im sorry but what history books do you read?

this is a complete load of bollocks excuse my french but do your fúckin homework before you go making bull**** claims like that.

and as for other religions trying to exterminate jews, i think youll find its the otherway round. the whole reason why people dislike isreal is because of palestine. im not going to argue this point with you. look it up for yourself.

did you know that the first war between israel and the arab league was because when israel was formed, they called for a "jew only" israel. and they were planning on getting the palestinians out of there, each time they have either provoked a war and 1967 war or the 6 day war they started.

and the fact that the UN has tried to prosecute Israel several times, for genocide.

actually, all the links to the wars are here in a previous post i made to someone else who didnt know a thing about the palestinians plight either.

heres the thread, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054903341

and heres the post about the wars between arabs and israel

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51251268&postcount=46

Catsmokinpot

popebenny16 wrote:

Since you're still here, would you like to reply to my post?

how can you demand questions answered... when you cannot answer questions asked to you?

Squaddy wrote:

What religions against them?

id like to know that too.

Gurgle

Giblet wrote:

His source:
http://www.proislam.com/30_little_known_facts_about_isra.htm
FANTASTIC!

Why leave out #30?

30) Nelson Mandela called the Israeli government an apartheid regime, just like South Africa used to be.