Us: 2x21 - "?" [** Spoilers Within **]

Ciaran500

7

But with Claire he didn't seem interested in the money IIRC even giving it back to her. Wonder what happened between the time Eko met him and when Claire went to him.

L31mr0d

8

Did anyone actually step through Ekos dream sequence when all the images flash onto the screen. They where pretty much just a recap on what they where going to cover in the episode, although there where one or two dark blurry images thrown in there as well. Now if only they could flash the recaps that fast at the start of each episode we'd be gettig an extra 5 minutes of Lost.

It was an ok episode, i'll wait till next week as it felt like this one was just building up to something. I wonder if Micheal actually let Henry go or did he kill him. I mean he said that he left 30 minutes ago, plenty of time to kill him and drag him off somewhere. Also, didn't Henry say he was going to get killed if he went back?

I'm hoping Locke loses it and breaks the computer, the've dragged on the button story for long enough.

Roen

6

Did anyone else notice that there's cameras monitoring the volunteers of 'The Pearl'? For what reason should the people who are doing the monitoring, be monitored themselves?

My guess is that the cameras are relayed back to wherever the pneumatic tubes lead to. i.e. some kind of station that is monitoring all the other stations.

But with Claire he didn't seem interested in the money IIRC even giving it back to her. Wonder what happened between the time Eko met him and when Claire went to him.

The guy himself admitted to Ecko that he was a fraud, I reckon that this once he actually got a blast of what was going to happen and shat himself, that's why he was so flustered and shoved the money back to Claire.
Just guesses though

Franky Boy

9

Eh.I take back my vote.it deserves an 8.the bakstory was quite poor imo!The rest was quality lost!

Hyzepher

The timeline for the psysic seems to be that he met Claire before he met Eko. Claire was thinking about his offer for weeks before he went on the flight, Eko got on the flight within days of meeting him.

The story of the girl coming back from the dead may have beeen a ploy to ensure that Eko took flight 815 and not an earlier flight that it looked like he might be on.

Also, the guy who gave Eko the passport looks very much like the guy who told John that he couldn't go on the trek across the outback.

I think the finale will focus on why the plane crashed and therefore give up a lot of secrets about the island. I wouldn't be surprised if the survivors learnt the truth about the island and became united with the others against another "controlling" group

Hyzepher

Agamemnon

6

Solid stuff, looks like they're building to something big. Anna appearing to Eko in a dream was a nice touch. She appeared to me in a dream one night as well.
It was a bit of let down that the Swan hatch was only a mind game. Wonder what the heiroglyphics really say if that's the case?
I hope Locke has learned his lesson about keeping secrets and that he tells everyone about the Pearl hatch. If they had to climb down into it and the vacuum tube sends the reports up, then they must be sent somewhere above ground, not far from the '?'.
Sad to see poor Libby go. We were arguing over whether she was dead or not and both sides were right. She'll probably reappear in flashback sometime though to explain her presence in the hospital. RIP Nice Rack Lady ((C) 2006 Rollo Tamasi).
One thing: when Libby left Hurley to get the blankets, it was dusk. The following morning, Kate and Sawyer find Hurley still on the beach. Why didn't he go down to the hatch to see what was keeping her? Did he spend the whole night on the beach knocking one out?

Metacortex

7

I enjoyed it.
It was very sad at the end, hopefully someone will actually realise she was pointing out her killer and not wondering if he was ok.

I really liked seeing that video for The Pearl. Interesting that the man we knew as Dr Candle now has presented himself as a different person. I did notice though, he didn't specifically say that The Swan was the location of the experiment. Due to what they have been doing with the button though im going to assume this is the correct hatch.

Another solid Eko episode, hes definitely one of my favourite characters.

8/10

Agamemnon

6

Dr. Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman: wonder what's going on here? Candle seemed to have a prosthetic arm but Wickman didn't. Are both Orientation videos a pack of porky pies? Maybe the real psych experiment was in the Pearl hatch. If the subjects in the Pearl hatch believed that what they saw on the screens were only mind games being played on unwitting subjects, they would be less inclined to interfere. After all, the Pearl hatch was being monitored and its occupants had to make reports to an unseen higher authority. Maybe there was something to inputting the numbers after all. Otherwise, Locke now looks like a complete gobsh1te and Eko has turned into a God-bothering loon.

monkeyfudge

6

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Furthermore, we're forgetting that the two killings were most likely captured on camera.

Good point... and also the text logs from the computer might also show Michael's chats with Walt.

Metacortex

7

monkeyfudge wrote:

Good point... and also the text logs from the computer might also show Michael's chats with Walt.

And also, it could show Locke if Henry did indeed input the numbers of not, maybe get his faith back on track...

Basq

5

I don't know.. wasn't overly impressed with the episode!

Backstory was very poor - but the backstories generally are these days.

Not a whole lot happened.. which i know can be a common occurrence in episodes but apart from the scenes with Locke finally realising the hatch is simply 'a rat in a cage' and Eko trying to counter this.. the episode wasn't up to much.

Biggest shock of the episode was after Kate announcing AL was dead.. and Sawyer looking over Libby... and all of a sudden, she coughs up a big splurt of blood all over the place. Did slightly jump at that - quite a shock!

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Furthermore, we're forgetting that the two killings were most likely captured on camera.

Yep, first thing i thought of when i saw the episode and i was praying Locke and Eko would look for past recordings.. but no..! Really annoyed me!

Will give the episode a 6.. enjoyed the new hatch / video and the scenes with Locke and Eko but not much else, backstory and an all-too-similar death scene brought this one down a couple of marks.

jor el

7

Pretty good episode this week, far better than the last few anyway. The cameras are interesting, I wonder if there's a recording of what went on. Also, I think Libby's last word 'Michael' will come back to haunt Michael. All it'll take is for Michael to mention Libby was already shot when he got up to either Jack or maybe Hurley and the game could be up. Michael's face at the end, evil or what? Surely he's changed and it's not blackmail by the others.

I just hope that Locke and Eko tell the others about the new hatch now instead of keeping it to themselves. I also hope Locke (or anyone) smashes that damn computer by the end of this season. I want to see what happens if you don't enter the numbers.

Dapos

8

Gave it a 9/10. Thought it was a great episode. Last weeks episode really pissed me off and i was wondering why i even watch this program anymore but this episode has made me realise why. Great seeing more of eko, he is a class character. I think the whole ? sign on ground fits in aswell with locks dream in season one (episode before boon dies) where he was lead to the plane. Another point i would like to make... a, i watching a different lost to a lot of ye. This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better. An episode shouldn't get 10 for giving a shock end. An episode should be rated overall.

Basq

5

Dapos wrote:

This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better.

Maybe in your opinion but certainly not mine.. felt last week's was considerably more entertaining. In a way, i was just waiting for this one to end. And the episode has gotten 3 10/10's on mine.. and you said an episode shouldn't be given 10 / 10 just for a shock ending.

Couldn't see much else in the episode between the scenes with Locke and Eko in the new hatch to award it any higher than a 6 or 7 to be honest.

Dapos

8

basquille wrote:

In a way, i was just waiting for this one to end. And the episode has gotten 3 10/10's on mine.. and you said an episode shouldn't be given 10 / 10 just for a shock ending.
/QUOTE]

Bit confused wat u mean by that statement. I suppose i just didn't see the last episode the same way a lot of ye did. I just really enjoyed this episode.. it reminded me of episodes that got me hooked to the show.

Snake Plisken

7

Just to clarify the monitoring station was not used to tape what happened in the hatch (maybe its being taped elsewhere but i doubt it as we are dealing with old VHS equipment from 1980), as per the new orientation video the observers would just write down what they see and send it up the chute.

Its a pity Libby didn't get out "Michael shot me", I'd like to see Syiid do his torture thing on him, I don't care if he was mind controlled that was not a nice thing to do to Ana Lucia and Libby

Snake

monkeyfudge

6

Snake Plisken wrote:

Just to clarify the monitoring station was not used to tape what happened in the hatch (maybe its being taped elsewhere but i doubt it as we are dealing with old VHS equipment from 1980), as per the new orientation video the observers would just write down what they see and send it up the chute.

There is a chance that the old technology is just a front... I still feel that video footage will come back to haunt Micheal.

duridian

8

Hyzepher wrote:

Is it my imagination or is the Dr. guy in the video lying about his name - I think in was something else in other video and didn't he have only one arm in it too?

Metacortex wrote:

Interesting that the man we knew as Dr Candle now has presented himself as a different person.

I think the Pearl Orientation guy used the name Mark Wickman(or possibly Wickham). He and the Swan Orientation guy, Marvin Candle may be twins or clones, or it may be just the same guy singing a different song to a different audience, hard to tell really. It wouldn't be the first time twins have appeared, two of the people from the boat (who took Walt) were almost certainly twins.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Definatley was 1980.

Yep, just had a look back on it and there is no doubt, it is 1980.

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Did anyone else notice that there's cameras monitoring the volunteers of 'The Pearl'? For what reason should the people who are doing the monitoring, be monitored themselves?

stevejazzx wrote:

...but what i'm thinking is that monitiorisation might just be another part of the test in that they were meant to find it...

With the "watchers being watched" and given the somewhat monotonous and repetive nature of the task set for the CCTV observers in Pearl Station, I am inclined to think that they were just another bunch of "rats in a maze" to be honest. The whole process of taking notes and feeding the full notebook into the weird tube delivery system doesn't seem that much more important than the entry of the numbers in Swan Station. I wouldn't be surprised if the tube just led to a big dustbin somewhere else.
Some very interesting ideas in that "possible spoilers" post of yours stevejazzx. I particularly like the idea about

the reason for Zeke's fake beard and torn rags for clothes being a way for a controlling "others" element to blend in with a more feral group.

I felt mega-sorry for poor auld Hurley at the end.
Did any of you think that Kate gave a sort of "how could you even think of guns at this moment, you bastid" look at Jack, when Jack insisted she accompany Sawyer to where he had stashed the heroin, knowing that the guns were probably in the same place? I wonder if Kate will actually keep mum about where the guns are kept by Sawyer, because she resented being used as a pawn in Jack's agenda to get back the guns. However I would also think that perhaps even without Kate's telling him, Jack will still find Sawyer's hiding place for the guns. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure didn't look like she was very happy at the way Jack used Libby's situation as leverage against Sawyer. In my opinion Sawyer came out as the bigger man from the situation, because it seemed like Jack was as concerned with getting back the guns as with easing of poor Libby's suffering, and it was wrong of him to take advantage of the situation. He could just have said "We need painkillers, Sawyer, please get me some of the heroin.", and left Sawyer go off on his own, but knowing that Sawyer would not refuse in such circumstances even with an insistance that Kate tag along, he took advantage. Definitely minus rep. for Jack there in Kate's book I'd say.
As it seems that Michael, no matter what he or Walt have been through, is now beyond any possible redemption, I bet that for the season finale it will be he who leads Jack and co. into whatever peril lies at the location/primitive encampment that he claims is the "others" base. Jack is way too cocksure lately and just spoiling for a fight, so it probably wouldn't take much convincing to lead him there.

tvnutz

7

Dapos wrote:

Another point i would like to make... a, i watching a different lost to a lot of ye. This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better. An episode shouldn't get 10 for giving a shock end. An episode should be rated overall.

I actually totally agree with this. This episode was far better than last weeks. The only good thing about last week was the ending,which was shocking and great tv,but still...overall this week was a lot better yet it has only gotten 3 10's and last week got over 50.

Ciaran500

7

But I think alot of us came on here after watching the ep still abit shocked by the shooting.

syboit

was there any date on the orientation tape that they saw for the swan ?

syboit

also, (have to put the whole lot in spoiler friendly more)

why build up a sinister back-story for libby (aka Libby in the nut house watching hurley) and hurley again mentioning , where do I know you from, for her to get the bullet ??

Beruthiel

8

I doubt very much we've heard the last about libby.

I loved this episode, anything with Mr. Eko in it is a good thing for me
9/10

L31mr0d

8

Ciaran500 wrote:

But I think alot of us came on here after watching the ep still abit shocked by the shooting.

You ever watched "Adaptation", the cardinal rule for filming is that if you can shock them and gain the audiences interest in the last act the rest will be forgiven. Last weeks ending rocked, and even though this weeks ep was consistantly better all the way through, it ended on the same pace as it started. It felt like it stopped short of the actual ending of the episode, and for that it got an 8/10 from me, good episode, i like ekos back story but we'll wait and see what happens next week. I'd say if you watched 21 and 22 back to back it would more along the pace of 20 alone.

doh.ie

monkeyfudge wrote:

There is a chance that the old technology is just a front... I still feel that video footage will come back to haunt Micheal.

Yeah, I agree it's being recorded somewhere. No sense in 'monitoring the monitors' otherwise.

Also, in terms of the old technology, the recent Lost: Reckoning recap went to the trouble of including (of all scenes) the part where Libby and Hurley were in the hatch and she said, "Is this washer and dryer newer than everything else in here?". Why would they include that?! It's a bit like in the Lost: Revelation recap, there was a ton of stuff relating to the Nigerian plane and the bodies Locke and Boone found before the Eko recap which revealed who they all were. I can't help but think we're being reminded that while some Dharma technology appears ancient, some of it is much more modern.

whitetrash

7

In the preview for next week's episode

Sayid specifically says to Jack that he thinks Micheal has been "comprimised"

doh.ie

Quite enjoyed "?" while I was watching it, but looking back on it now, I'd be hard-pressed to give this ep much more than a 6.

* "?": The episode should have been gripping; based on the "Lockdown" map, the excitement in finding the "?" hatch should have been one of the biggest Lost mysteries revealed. Yet in the end, the monitoring hatch was a bit of a damp squib. So Dharma are telling different groups of people different things. So they have vacuum tubes. It wasn't the big shocking revelation being the focal point of 'the centre of the hatches' that I expected by any means. The dreams, Yemi in the wheelchair (nice touch) and the salted earth revealing the ? were clever enough, though. However, the map drawn in the Swan suggested that the mystery at the centre of the hatches was an unknown or theorised location - it didn't suggest it actually was under a '?'. It does appear to be a marker for overhead flights, but I can't see why they chose this symbol. Made more sense if it was a location not yet discovered.

* Libby: I do not agree with the decision to kill off a character who was both important in character terms (relationship with Hurley) and backstory (why was she in the mental hospital?). Once again, they build up a character respectably only to throw it all away. Whatever about killing AL (and there wasn't as much resonance to her death as there should have been), the Libby death seemed unnecessary and pointless, just like Shannon's. (Also, I can't believe the blankets didn't protect her!)

* Michael: Annoying in the extreme. Why not just tell the other Losties that he needed to let Henry go to get Walt back? They're his friends - they might have agreed. His "plan" as it stands is pathetic and useless, and showing no signs of success. He may be tortured inside, but even getting Walt back now will not make up for what he did.

* Eko's backstory: Weak on the whole, but the airport scene redeemed it. That girl is from a ton of Australian soaps, too. Can't help but feel she has a connection to the island, and that her father knows a lot more than he let on to Eko. Certainly, there's something in that look she gave Eko. So her father talks to Claire, gets some kind of vision that puts his plan to get her aboard Flight 815 in motion and during the same week/day that he gives her the ticket, he also has this mystery with his daughter. He and the daughter must have a bigger role to play in Lost. Also, though I did recognise him as the guy who spoke to Claire in flashback, I also had to laugh as he was Russian president Subarov in 24 this year!

* Yemi is credited as Adetokumboh M'Cormack in his earlier appearance, but as Adetokumboh McCormack in this one. From African to Irish in 11 episodes!

* The unplayable part of the Dharma video this time was that relating to what you do at the end of your 8-hour shift. The Pearl is not big enough to house workers for eating/sleeping, but the instructions were to return to base (I think), but then the rest was unclear.

* Martin Candle Mark II - this is more 'twin' business (after 'Bad Twin' popping up several times, the Other twins on the boat), so there must be cloning going on. Or at least some kind of genetic manipulation. This guy didn't have the prosthetic arm either.

* They seem to have gone out of their way to make the Swan orientation seem as 'old' as possible, yet the monitoring station has video facilities (yet old-old-style televisions. TVs in 1980s were still much more sophisticated than those in the Pearl.) Again, this brings up the washer/dryer issue; I'm sure there must be a good explanation for that.

* This episode's explanation of the '?' map to me seemed to be poorly thought out to me. You'd think the centre of the six hatches would be something special, but it's much less than that.

Not sure where they're heading to for the finale, but I think we're currently at a much weaker point than we were this time last year (when we hadn't even been inside the hatch!). Maybe there'll be a big Dharma revelation or a trip to the Others camp that brings it all to a thrilling finale. I can't help, feeling, though, that yesterdays '?' revelations were a bit of a letdown. More questions, few answers and more riddles within riddles...

6/10.

doh.ie

Quick addition: I still half-reckon the season will end with the counter reaching zero, and that it'll be season 3 before we see the ramifications of that. Last night seemed to be pushing the point that the Swan is an experiment. It never specifically said the numbers had no purpose though. The printout and the hieroglyphics still make me think there's a crucial reason for entering them, and it'll be in the final moments we learn what *not* entering them does.

Snake Plisken

7

hey there are some interesting stills from the season finale at thetailsection website, but beware you can nearly work out whats going to happen in the episode (71 stills)

Cheers

Snake

doh.ie

No thanks, Snake. Would rather be surprised. Above was just a theory, kind of how I'd play it if I was writing the show. I've been trying to think of an equivalent mystery to 'What's in the hatch?' that needs to be answered at the end of this year, and the biggest one for me is 'What happens when the counter ACTUALLY reaches zero and the hieroglyphics kick in?' Want that answered this year.