Us: 2x21 - "?" [** Spoilers Within **]

Basq

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "?" -

Episode Title: "?"
Airdate: May 10th 2006

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Mr. Eko seeks Locke's help in finding a secret location he believes holds the key to the island's mysteries; Jack and the other survivors grapple with the horrific situation in the hatch.

Next New Episode: 2X22 - "Three Minutes" - May 17th 2006

Basq

5

4 things..

Firstly.. yes, that ("?") is the name of the episode before anyone asks the inevitable "do we not know the name of the episode yet?"

Secondly.. i've omitted the question mark at the end of the poll question "what did you think of.." and the two question marks would just mess with people's minds and feck up their equilibrium (.. it's true.. science says so!)

Thirdly.. i know it's up very early but i have exams these days and am posting the discussion thread whenever i've a chance, considering i almost forgot the one on Monday.

And lastly.. why did i bother commenting on these daft miniscule details?

PS - enjoy the episode all!

Ponster

7

> Mr. Eko seeks Locke's help in finding a secret location he believes holds the key to the island's mysteries;


Hmmm, I wonder why it isn't the other way around? I mean, Locke has drawn the map of what he thought he saw on the door with the big ? in the middle. Wouldn't he be the one that would be asking for Eko's help as Locke can't walk properly?

Though the fact that these 2 characters team up seemed normal to me as they both saw the black smoke stuff and survived.

herobear

that was actually pretty cool!(finally!...after 6 episodes of uselessness)
cool, creepy and informative all at the same time.

the flashback was useless frankly, but the rest of the episode made up for it

the ending was both REALLY sad and creepy at the same time.
really looking forward to next week now!

Ponster

7

Is it normal that there's only one vote and it's a 1 ?

Cool episode. You can really feel like the show building up to something at the end of this season. I liked the flashback though. It's about time that character got one


Gonna have to watch it again and take notes

Washout

6

after voting ten last week always knew this wasnt going to be as mesmirising epISode. but it was solid 7 with the story moving forward ever so slightly (at least its moving forward).

I liked the new hatch. hoped that the other CCTV cameras worked.

I liked the whole Eko/Locke interaction.

The backstory was rubbish but it was good to see more coincidences coming through ie. Claires Psychic.

It is an episode that needs watching over again.

Bard

Ponster wrote:

Is it normal that there's only one vote and it's a 1 ?

Yes. A lot of people won't have seen the episode yet, myself included.

I'll watch it tonight when I get home from work. Then I'll vote.

Ciaran500

7

No, its just popinfresh acting the prick.

FrankGrimes

6

so what happened in this episode? Having network troubles so won't get it downloaded for a while but I actually enjoy this show a bit more I think when I know whats coming as it makes me more tolerant of how much it drags stuff out so hit me with them spoilers!

kaimera

8

/me hits FrankGrimes with them

spoilers

.

FrankGrimes

6

wow, sounds like an intriguing episode, I'm eternally indebted to ya Kaimera

cerebis

6

it was a pretty good episode....a new hatch etc...wonder where locke's map goes??

Lantis

Notice how all of the other hatches (Arrow, Snake, Pearl) seem to be vacated now? What're the Others leaving them empty for?

I was really hoping we'd get to see Michael doing something. Ah well, at least the promo looks promising.

Snake Plisken

7

Good Episode a solid 8.

Nice to see Ana Lucia in the dream sequence, Good Locke/Eko interaction, I see this relationship becomming more important next season. Also when Eko climbed up to the top of the cliff his brother was in a wheelchair, must be some reference to Locke. the new video was interesting although damaged in Key sections, also interesting the 1980 copyright at the end of it. I wonder where the vacuum distribution system leads?
Michael is creeping me out, I hope Syiid gets to work him over next week.
Very sad at the end

Snake

Cina

Well, I did really enjoy this episode, infact it was probably a more solid episode than the last, which to be honest, only really had the excellent ending.
So it's obvious Michaels not being brainwashed or whatever now I think, you can tell that he's still him, obviously he's being manipulated by the Others in the hope that he'll get Walt back, which was the basic assumption last week.
Libby is actually dead then, which begs the question of how they are possibly going to tell us WHY she was in the mental hospital, maybe in a Hurley backstory where he finally remembers? Still though, if she was just there because she was a bit nuts at the time i'll be seriously disappointed, this was a cliffhanger and made out to be a big deal by the writers. This needs to be resolved but it'll probably be mid way season 3 before it is IF they give us answers.
So Locke and Eko are connected in some way, Eko had no previous knowledge of the ? before the dream, Locke had no previous knowledge of Ekos brother. I guess the obvious explanation would be that the island is connecting them together. Although another theory could be that it has something to do with the nano machine black smoke type thing which they both saw face to face and survived. (Remember how when Eko saw it, it ran through all his memories?)

So the last 3 episodes (or 2?) will involve them going to GET MICHAELS BOY BACK! from the Others, who are obviously a lot better equipped than Michael makes them out to be. From what he said they are at one of the remaining 3 hatches we havent seen.

Hyzepher

Is it my imagination or is the Dr. guy in the video lying about his name - I think in was something else in other video and didn't he have only one arm in it too?

Must go back and look at it again

Hyzepher

danbhala

7

Hyzepher wrote:

Is it my imagination or is the Dr. guy in the video lying about his name - I think in was something else in other video and didn't he have only one arm in it too?

Must go back and look at it again

Hyzepher

yeah he said in the 1st orientation video that his name was Dr. Marvin Candle....

7

i thought that the priest said that locke would find faith again!he didnt!plus it leads us to believe that pushing the button is a controlled experiment!

stevejazzx

8

a thoroughly great ep, from begin to end. finally we see the psych experiment outed and realised but very well done. Is eko being manipulated into the next locke? or HAS LOCKE GRADUATED AND EKO chosen as the next disciple?
we're supposed to have a mad finale, its set up for something insane I can feel it, there are so many diastrous possibilities, flashback was short and sweet and uttterly essential as most of them are despite the absolute nonsesne posted on here from time to time asking for flashbacks to be 'removed' from the show...
anyways jack s gonna cop on to the fact that libby didn't say anna lucia, she said michael....and that anna being a cop and able to handle a gun properly makes it more unliley that hgale just nabbed it from her.......its getting very interesting, i always knew there would be a monitoristion hatch...and now we know how zeke and co knew their movements names etc, but what i'm thinking is that monitiorisation might just be another part of the test in that they were meant to find it...

cerebis

6

yeah its mad the way the other hatches are decayed....yet when claire was in her flashback that hatch was in operation..me senses a glitch in time...

Anima

8

Wow, what an episode. I can feel they're building up to a great finale.

Narcissus

7

Good episode. an 8 for me.

So it actually is just a big brother experiment!

I wonder where this is gonna go and if there is an actual purpose to typing in the numbers.

Cina

Yeah it's weird that the Swan hatch was still in operation when all the other hatches seem to have been abandoned (the ones we know of anyway) But didn't Desmond say something about the fact the dharma were supposed to take him off the island months ago? Maybe they forgot about him wen they took the others? but then that doesn't explain the fact that they're still parachuting food to him. Argh, so many questions.

Narcissus

7

Desmond never mentioned anything about Dharma. Still so many questions though...

Boston

Anyone else pick up on the tape being dated 1990?

Ciaran500

7

Definatley was 1980.

JackKelly

Definitely one of the better episodes of the series. Before last week i was starting to lose faith in Lost as it seemed to have forgotten entirely about telling us why they were on the island. The lack of Dharma was weeing me off a little. After that episode though, i can't wait for the finale. So many posibilities.

Jack is definitely going to figure out that Michael said Libby had been shot by the time he got there, and wonder how Libby knew he was there at all then,which should be interesting. Hopefully, Desmond will come back into it. I'm really interested to know how Ecko and John are "connected".

What's the story with the fortune teller and his daughter? Same guy who freaked out when Claire went to him even though he was going on about how he doesnt believe in miracles? Seems to be a bit of a coverup. And the girl "seeing" eckos brother. wtf.

stevejazzx

8

Apapaia wrote:

Good episode. an 8 for me.

So it actually is just a big brother experiment!

no not at all...

(only read if you don't mind possible spoilers, nothing here about future eps though)

, it was in the begining (circa 1980) then dharma started to break away, alvar hanso overthrown, now they (hanso org) have the w.h.o in their pocket they can develop lethal strain s of viruses(or is it virii) and sell on the antidotes/drugs through their secret affilate widmore corp(remeber the preg test linking them to being a pharmaceutical comp, so the 'others' as we know them (anna refers to them as animals) are just guinea pigs/lab rats like the losties but they've experienced much more severe drugging/experimentation, (this is why they're animals/like the controlled dog michael has become) and the fake disguises we've seen are
not to fool the losties but this group, it's a way for the dharma scientists to walk amoung them unnoticed and keep them loyal and controlled to 'him'. They bring plane s to the island and then the electromagnetic sphere they have set up rips apart the vehicle to each extreme end, the + and - i.e each side of the island, while the em fields integrated nano mechanical remote viewing interaction center(aka 'smokey) oversees our crash survivors, btw those who live but who weren't central to the experiment are deemed variables...those who were central to the experiment were organised back in the real world bu the military in the case of sawyer, sayid, kate, or by family in the case of jack, claire, or by faith like locke and eko.
the cnetral hanso figure 'hurely' has been purposefully given the numbers(through lenny the nut in the hanso owned mental institute) as they contain a mathamticlal anoamly or divinity that the scientists wish to track by stranding him desert bound on a scientifically contained and monitored
island, dave (a hanso based employee) attempts to get hurley to kill himself when they fear the numbers have become too uncontrolable, libby in an attempt to keep the experiment going feigns a romantic interest in hugo, suggesting she has moved from the ranks of the hanso org to the free radical ideas of new dharma, now if someone would be kind enough to tell what the hell walt is exactly i would be happy!

I wonder where this is gonna go and if there is an actual purpose to typing in the numbers.[/QUOTE]

viking

"Do you want to watch that again John?"

Excellent piece of humour again by the writers after Locke's "We're gonna need to watch that again" piece after the first Orientation video.

8/10 for the episode.

TheStrandRoads

7

I don't think there's enough reason (from Jack's point of view) for Jack to question Michael about the incident, let alone suspect him in any way. And Jack's reply to Libby's dying word of 'Michael..' was something along the lines of 'Michael's ok'.

Furthermore, we're forgetting that the two killings were most likely captured on camera. But there in lies a dead end, at least for the moment, as I imagine Locke and Eko will keep knowledge of the new hatch to themselves.

I'm assuming of course that they record what they're monitoring at 'The Pearl' - in addition to just taking notes. The equipment is there to do it.

Did anyone else notice that there's cameras monitoring the volunteers of 'The Pearl'? For what reason should the people who are doing the monitoring, be monitored themselves?

John

Sunn

i thought when echo met the father of the "miracle" girl was interesting.. considering clair went to him.. wonder why he said all that stuff about "you must protect the baby" ect.. and who the people were in L.A. .. wonder if he is with dharma

Ciaran500

7

But with Claire he didn't seem interested in the money IIRC even giving it back to her. Wonder what happened between the time Eko met him and when Claire went to him.

L31mr0d

8

Did anyone actually step through Ekos dream sequence when all the images flash onto the screen. They where pretty much just a recap on what they where going to cover in the episode, although there where one or two dark blurry images thrown in there as well. Now if only they could flash the recaps that fast at the start of each episode we'd be gettig an extra 5 minutes of Lost.

It was an ok episode, i'll wait till next week as it felt like this one was just building up to something. I wonder if Micheal actually let Henry go or did he kill him. I mean he said that he left 30 minutes ago, plenty of time to kill him and drag him off somewhere. Also, didn't Henry say he was going to get killed if he went back?

I'm hoping Locke loses it and breaks the computer, the've dragged on the button story for long enough.

Roen

6

Did anyone else notice that there's cameras monitoring the volunteers of 'The Pearl'? For what reason should the people who are doing the monitoring, be monitored themselves?

My guess is that the cameras are relayed back to wherever the pneumatic tubes lead to. i.e. some kind of station that is monitoring all the other stations.

But with Claire he didn't seem interested in the money IIRC even giving it back to her. Wonder what happened between the time Eko met him and when Claire went to him.

The guy himself admitted to Ecko that he was a fraud, I reckon that this once he actually got a blast of what was going to happen and shat himself, that's why he was so flustered and shoved the money back to Claire.
Just guesses though

Franky Boy

9

Eh.I take back my vote.it deserves an 8.the bakstory was quite poor imo!The rest was quality lost!

Hyzepher

The timeline for the psysic seems to be that he met Claire before he met Eko. Claire was thinking about his offer for weeks before he went on the flight, Eko got on the flight within days of meeting him.

The story of the girl coming back from the dead may have beeen a ploy to ensure that Eko took flight 815 and not an earlier flight that it looked like he might be on.

Also, the guy who gave Eko the passport looks very much like the guy who told John that he couldn't go on the trek across the outback.

I think the finale will focus on why the plane crashed and therefore give up a lot of secrets about the island. I wouldn't be surprised if the survivors learnt the truth about the island and became united with the others against another "controlling" group

Hyzepher

Agamemnon

6

Solid stuff, looks like they're building to something big. Anna appearing to Eko in a dream was a nice touch. She appeared to me in a dream one night as well.
It was a bit of let down that the Swan hatch was only a mind game. Wonder what the heiroglyphics really say if that's the case?
I hope Locke has learned his lesson about keeping secrets and that he tells everyone about the Pearl hatch. If they had to climb down into it and the vacuum tube sends the reports up, then they must be sent somewhere above ground, not far from the '?'.
Sad to see poor Libby go. We were arguing over whether she was dead or not and both sides were right. She'll probably reappear in flashback sometime though to explain her presence in the hospital. RIP Nice Rack Lady ((C) 2006 Rollo Tamasi).
One thing: when Libby left Hurley to get the blankets, it was dusk. The following morning, Kate and Sawyer find Hurley still on the beach. Why didn't he go down to the hatch to see what was keeping her? Did he spend the whole night on the beach knocking one out?

Metacortex

7

I enjoyed it.
It was very sad at the end, hopefully someone will actually realise she was pointing out her killer and not wondering if he was ok.

I really liked seeing that video for The Pearl. Interesting that the man we knew as Dr Candle now has presented himself as a different person. I did notice though, he didn't specifically say that The Swan was the location of the experiment. Due to what they have been doing with the button though im going to assume this is the correct hatch.

Another solid Eko episode, hes definitely one of my favourite characters.

8/10

Agamemnon

6

Dr. Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman: wonder what's going on here? Candle seemed to have a prosthetic arm but Wickman didn't. Are both Orientation videos a pack of porky pies? Maybe the real psych experiment was in the Pearl hatch. If the subjects in the Pearl hatch believed that what they saw on the screens were only mind games being played on unwitting subjects, they would be less inclined to interfere. After all, the Pearl hatch was being monitored and its occupants had to make reports to an unseen higher authority. Maybe there was something to inputting the numbers after all. Otherwise, Locke now looks like a complete gobsh1te and Eko has turned into a God-bothering loon.

monkeyfudge

6

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Furthermore, we're forgetting that the two killings were most likely captured on camera.

Good point... and also the text logs from the computer might also show Michael's chats with Walt.

Metacortex

7

monkeyfudge wrote:

Good point... and also the text logs from the computer might also show Michael's chats with Walt.

And also, it could show Locke if Henry did indeed input the numbers of not, maybe get his faith back on track...

Basq

5

I don't know.. wasn't overly impressed with the episode!

Backstory was very poor - but the backstories generally are these days.

Not a whole lot happened.. which i know can be a common occurrence in episodes but apart from the scenes with Locke finally realising the hatch is simply 'a rat in a cage' and Eko trying to counter this.. the episode wasn't up to much.

Biggest shock of the episode was after Kate announcing AL was dead.. and Sawyer looking over Libby... and all of a sudden, she coughs up a big splurt of blood all over the place. Did slightly jump at that - quite a shock!

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Furthermore, we're forgetting that the two killings were most likely captured on camera.

Yep, first thing i thought of when i saw the episode and i was praying Locke and Eko would look for past recordings.. but no..! Really annoyed me!

Will give the episode a 6.. enjoyed the new hatch / video and the scenes with Locke and Eko but not much else, backstory and an all-too-similar death scene brought this one down a couple of marks.

jor el

7

Pretty good episode this week, far better than the last few anyway. The cameras are interesting, I wonder if there's a recording of what went on. Also, I think Libby's last word 'Michael' will come back to haunt Michael. All it'll take is for Michael to mention Libby was already shot when he got up to either Jack or maybe Hurley and the game could be up. Michael's face at the end, evil or what? Surely he's changed and it's not blackmail by the others.

I just hope that Locke and Eko tell the others about the new hatch now instead of keeping it to themselves. I also hope Locke (or anyone) smashes that damn computer by the end of this season. I want to see what happens if you don't enter the numbers.

Dapos

8

Gave it a 9/10. Thought it was a great episode. Last weeks episode really pissed me off and i was wondering why i even watch this program anymore but this episode has made me realise why. Great seeing more of eko, he is a class character. I think the whole ? sign on ground fits in aswell with locks dream in season one (episode before boon dies) where he was lead to the plane. Another point i would like to make... a, i watching a different lost to a lot of ye. This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better. An episode shouldn't get 10 for giving a shock end. An episode should be rated overall.

Basq

5

Dapos wrote:

This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better.

Maybe in your opinion but certainly not mine.. felt last week's was considerably more entertaining. In a way, i was just waiting for this one to end. And the episode has gotten 3 10/10's on mine.. and you said an episode shouldn't be given 10 / 10 just for a shock ending.

Couldn't see much else in the episode between the scenes with Locke and Eko in the new hatch to award it any higher than a 6 or 7 to be honest.

Dapos

8

basquille wrote:

In a way, i was just waiting for this one to end. And the episode has gotten 3 10/10's on mine.. and you said an episode shouldn't be given 10 / 10 just for a shock ending.
/QUOTE]

Bit confused wat u mean by that statement. I suppose i just didn't see the last episode the same way a lot of ye did. I just really enjoyed this episode.. it reminded me of episodes that got me hooked to the show.

Snake Plisken

7

Just to clarify the monitoring station was not used to tape what happened in the hatch (maybe its being taped elsewhere but i doubt it as we are dealing with old VHS equipment from 1980), as per the new orientation video the observers would just write down what they see and send it up the chute.

Its a pity Libby didn't get out "Michael shot me", I'd like to see Syiid do his torture thing on him, I don't care if he was mind controlled that was not a nice thing to do to Ana Lucia and Libby

Snake

monkeyfudge

6

Snake Plisken wrote:

Just to clarify the monitoring station was not used to tape what happened in the hatch (maybe its being taped elsewhere but i doubt it as we are dealing with old VHS equipment from 1980), as per the new orientation video the observers would just write down what they see and send it up the chute.

There is a chance that the old technology is just a front... I still feel that video footage will come back to haunt Micheal.

duridian

8

Hyzepher wrote:

Is it my imagination or is the Dr. guy in the video lying about his name - I think in was something else in other video and didn't he have only one arm in it too?

Metacortex wrote:

Interesting that the man we knew as Dr Candle now has presented himself as a different person.

I think the Pearl Orientation guy used the name Mark Wickman(or possibly Wickham). He and the Swan Orientation guy, Marvin Candle may be twins or clones, or it may be just the same guy singing a different song to a different audience, hard to tell really. It wouldn't be the first time twins have appeared, two of the people from the boat (who took Walt) were almost certainly twins.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Definatley was 1980.

Yep, just had a look back on it and there is no doubt, it is 1980.

TheStrandRoads wrote:

Did anyone else notice that there's cameras monitoring the volunteers of 'The Pearl'? For what reason should the people who are doing the monitoring, be monitored themselves?

stevejazzx wrote:

...but what i'm thinking is that monitiorisation might just be another part of the test in that they were meant to find it...

With the "watchers being watched" and given the somewhat monotonous and repetive nature of the task set for the CCTV observers in Pearl Station, I am inclined to think that they were just another bunch of "rats in a maze" to be honest. The whole process of taking notes and feeding the full notebook into the weird tube delivery system doesn't seem that much more important than the entry of the numbers in Swan Station. I wouldn't be surprised if the tube just led to a big dustbin somewhere else.
Some very interesting ideas in that "possible spoilers" post of yours stevejazzx. I particularly like the idea about

the reason for Zeke's fake beard and torn rags for clothes being a way for a controlling "others" element to blend in with a more feral group.

I felt mega-sorry for poor auld Hurley at the end.
Did any of you think that Kate gave a sort of "how could you even think of guns at this moment, you bastid" look at Jack, when Jack insisted she accompany Sawyer to where he had stashed the heroin, knowing that the guns were probably in the same place? I wonder if Kate will actually keep mum about where the guns are kept by Sawyer, because she resented being used as a pawn in Jack's agenda to get back the guns. However I would also think that perhaps even without Kate's telling him, Jack will still find Sawyer's hiding place for the guns. Maybe I am wrong, but it sure didn't look like she was very happy at the way Jack used Libby's situation as leverage against Sawyer. In my opinion Sawyer came out as the bigger man from the situation, because it seemed like Jack was as concerned with getting back the guns as with easing of poor Libby's suffering, and it was wrong of him to take advantage of the situation. He could just have said "We need painkillers, Sawyer, please get me some of the heroin.", and left Sawyer go off on his own, but knowing that Sawyer would not refuse in such circumstances even with an insistance that Kate tag along, he took advantage. Definitely minus rep. for Jack there in Kate's book I'd say.
As it seems that Michael, no matter what he or Walt have been through, is now beyond any possible redemption, I bet that for the season finale it will be he who leads Jack and co. into whatever peril lies at the location/primitive encampment that he claims is the "others" base. Jack is way too cocksure lately and just spoiling for a fight, so it probably wouldn't take much convincing to lead him there.

tvnutz

7

Dapos wrote:

Another point i would like to make... a, i watching a different lost to a lot of ye. This episode got no 10/10 yet last weeks did. This episode is far better. An episode shouldn't get 10 for giving a shock end. An episode should be rated overall.

I actually totally agree with this. This episode was far better than last weeks. The only good thing about last week was the ending,which was shocking and great tv,but still...overall this week was a lot better yet it has only gotten 3 10's and last week got over 50.

Ciaran500

7

But I think alot of us came on here after watching the ep still abit shocked by the shooting.