The Strange World of CIE-Speak

Transport21 Fan

shltter wrote:

rather than sneak off home and try and get the guy sacked because he was not russian.

(Odd not that I go into PC world much but these guys are all introducing themselves and their Nationality. How does that go "Hi sir can I help you I am Russian Not Ukranian you can pay the guy on the cash register he is Pakistani)

I find this current evolution of the Irish Trade Union movement into some kind of hybrid between an Irish version of the BNP/National Front and the Orange Order to be simply facinating. The Trade Unions in this country are obsessed with racial politics and maintaining gaelic ethnic purity in the workplace.

Did anyone see the Prime Time segment the other night with the SIPTU rep in Cork spouting the most incredible xenophobic drivel.

Red Alert

i feel i have to stick up for dublin bus drivers here. i was very badly injured about two years ago and spent a long time unable to walk and on crutches - When I began to be able to get buses again, I never had a problem getting a driver to wait or pull in a bit. I know two or three drivers on the 14/48A/14A since i was in school and i've always found them to be very pleasant - compared to the absolutely horrid shop assistants i've had to deal with in Tesco, PC World and Argos on occasion.

I'd complain about poor quality of service from staff members. I did make a complaint about my local supermarket once - an american man was treated very rudely by the girl behind the checkout, so i complained on the spot to the manager who sent her to his office on the spot - never heard the rest of it.

Transport21 Fan

Red, everybody agrees that there are good folks working in CIE. Humans beings and human beings and there is good and bad everywhere. I have met nice bus and train drivers and even the odd CIE employee whom I would consider a public transport professional. But they are the tiny minority in that company, sadly.

I feel that a lot of this is due to the fact that CIE is rotten to its very core and is being driven by the sociopathic demands of a toxic trade union mindset (at its absolute most poisonius within Irish Rail) trapped in a 1970's mentality with no regard for the people who depend on public transport, and a CIE management structure who psychologically have an unconcious "ANYTHING BUT PUBLIC TRANSPORT/RAILFREIGHT" psychosis which involves property deals and buying hotels or anything which prevents them from thinking, dealing or developing public transport services or railfreight.

But the CIE union as a whole, and mostly within Irish Rail, do not fully understand that they are actually employed in public transport. They work for CIE Union - that's their job discription.

One of the greatest tragedies in all this is that the few dedicated public transport professionals within CIE cannot rise to the top and take control of that company, as the agenda is always set by most crazed union fanatics and and their distorted view of reality were the NBRU/ILDA is always right and everyone else is a right-winger nutter for not agreeing with them. You get the feeling that some of these semi-state union types would be building gulags and re-education camps in Donegal if they could get away with it.

All one has to do is read certain posts on this thread and the very essence of CIE union paranioa, beligerance, surliness, self-made professional and personal unhappiness coupled with an infantile hyper-inflated sense of personal expectation at the expense of the commuters and public transport development in Ireland.

They are so complete lost in their insular world of false victim hood and childish huffs and do not care if they destroy public transport in Ireland, nor ther Irish economy as long as they get what they want and we the Irish taxpayers fund their job for life, their "stress" bonuses and their pensions - no questions asked and nothing given in return.

Public Transport in CIE all takes second place to the infantile, self-absorbed CIE unions and CIE managers buying hotel chains. This is why this CIE has to be removed from Irish public transport - there is no further reform which can be experimented with. 60 years of failure and Deco's lifestyle options is far too long to put up with CIE and what it represents.

Red Alert

I agree with you to an extent - i find it totally unacceptable that crony-istic people get onto the higher echelons in CIE and do things like buying/selling hotels, harbours and the like. I would nearly argue that some other operations like the CIE Tours should also be outside of CIE's remit. The unions from time to time also behave irresponsibly, like the way ILDA killed the remaining industry goodwill towards Irish Rail.

As a student engineer I find it bizarre even in the choice of vehicles and equipment. We seem to have gone for a one-stop-Volvo/Alex-shop in DB and CAF in IE, and have gone for a Wayfarer ticket system because it was the one we already had. Both of these point to non-technical people making decisions on things they know nothing about. Ten dennis tridents were bought by DB, that's a lot just for testing, or were they bought to put the screws on someone? (They are actually meant to be loved by drivers as the best buses DB has). We promptly went back to buying Volvo's - sounds a bit incompetent doesn't it? Irish rail then fire the CAF tincans onto the rails and to hell with the passengers who hate them (whilst paying for the privilage of riding in a design inspired by a public-toilet).

I do admire you T21 for your beliefs in a private system and the fact that you do back up what you say. I think that for the publicly owned system to continue it must undergo a root and branch reform and i would be ruthless in carrying that out.

shltter

murphaph wrote:

Yeah, really hilarious. I'm glad you're easily amused. :rolleyes:


a) I wan't trying to get him sacked. I was trying to ensure his management team were aware of his poor customer service so as to improve it for future customers. Complaining to the guy himself is useless in these situations, like if you were ignorant to me on a bus and I complained to you, would you suddenly have a revelation and realise you'd been an ignorant ass and suddenly treat all your customers with respect and in a mannerly fashion, or would it not be better for me to log a complaint against you so that it may be added to any other complaints and when a set number of complaints are reached, you can be sent for counselling/anger management etc. before being dismissed if you kept it up?

b) I readily complain in to staff (but prefer their managers) in person but the packaging was very unclear as to what USB cables would be compatible, so short of opening the thing up in the shop to prove him wrong I decided to take the thing home and check I wasn't going to make an ass out of myself. Once satisfied that he had not "assisted" me and was only after his commission I called his manager. Still got a problem with that?


I found out the dude was russian from his manager when I was on the phone to him

You seem to have a real issue with a customer complaining to an ignorant staff member's management team. That is highly indicative of something.

I have an issue with you trying to get the guy sacked

I'm sure if that assistant was complained about a couple more times he'd be sacked

You come across as a sneak afraid to confront the guy in the shop content to go home and give your side of the story to the manager.

Knowing PC world you probably got the Russian guy sacked it is probably policy to sell the wrong USB so they can get you back into the shop again.

aliveandkicking

parsi wrote:

That's a bit on the low side isn't it ?

You should (for balance) add the fatal Offaly bus crash which involved a private sector vehicle which lost its rear axle. Wasn't there also a report that the vehicle was unlicensed ?

Fair cop, it was a bit low. i was just trying to make the point that if CIE and its unions didnt have the attitude they have (i.e. Bus Eireann hires a private contractor to run a school bus and drivers go on all out strike) then the school bus fleet might be in a lot better position than it is.

shltter

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I find this current evolution of the Irish Trade Union movement into some kind of hybrid between an Irish version of the BNP/National Front and the Orange Order to be simply facinating. The Trade Unions in this country are obsessed with racial politics and maintaining gaelic ethnic purity in the workplace.

Did anyone see the Prime Time segment the other night with the SIPTU rep in Cork spouting the most incredible xenophobic drivel.

That is an outrageous comment my post was in reply to Murphaph who deemed it important to tell us the Nationality of the people involved in his little spat with PC world

I find it deeply offensive that you would try to associate me with any kind of Rascist views

I have reported this post to the Mods on this Forum.

shltter

aliveandkicking wrote:

Fair cop, it was a bit low. i was just trying to make the point that if CIE and its unions didnt have the attitude they have (i.e. Bus Eireann hires a private contractor to run a school bus and drivers go on all out strike) then the school bus fleet might be in a lot better position than it is.

Have you seen the state of some of the private buses that are carrying children to School.
Odd that you admit it was a bit low and then repeat the exact same allegation

shltter

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Red, everybody agrees that there are good folks working in CIE. Humans beings and human beings and there is good and bad everywhere. I have met nice bus and train drivers and even the odd CIE employee whom I would consider a public transport professional. But they are the tiny minority in that company, sadly.

I feel that a lot of this is due to the fact that CIE is rotten to its very core and is being driven by the sociopathic demands of a toxic trade union mindset (at its absolute most poisonius within Irish Rail) trapped in a 1970's mentality with no regard for the people who depend on public transport, and a CIE management structure who psychologically have an unconcious "ANYTHING BUT PUBLIC TRANSPORT/RAILFREIGHT" psychosis which involves property deals and buying hotels or anything which prevents them from thinking, dealing or developing public transport services or railfreight.

But the CIE union as a whole, and mostly within Irish Rail, do not fully understand that they are actually employed in public transport. They work for CIE Union - that's their job discription.

One of the greatest tragedies in all this is that the few dedicated public transport professionals within CIE cannot rise to the top and take control of that company, as the agenda is always set by most crazed union fanatics and and their distorted view of reality were the NBRU/ILDA is always right and everyone else is a right-winger nutter for not agreeing with them. You get the feeling that some of these semi-state union types would be building gulags and re-education camps in Donegal if they could get away with it.

All one has to do is read certain posts on this thread and the very essence of CIE union paranioa, beligerance, surliness, self-made professional and personal unhappiness coupled with an infantile hyper-inflated sense of personal expectation at the expense of the commuters and public transport development in Ireland.

They are so complete lost in their insular world of false victim hood and childish huffs and do not care if they destroy public transport in Ireland, nor ther Irish economy as long as they get what they want and we the Irish taxpayers fund their job for life, their "stress" bonuses and their pensions - no questions asked and nothing given in return.

Public Transport in CIE all takes second place to the infantile, self-absorbed CIE unions and CIE managers buying hotel chains. This is why this CIE has to be removed from Irish public transport - there is no further reform which can be experimented with. 60 years of failure and Deco's lifestyle options is far too long to put up with CIE and what it represents.

LOL

You have to give it to you for brass neck to accuse other people of being infantile and having a false victimhood

This from the guy who is still harping on about his deprived childhood in Ballymun .


You know absolutely nothing about CIE unions other than what you have picked up from the Indo or some other tabloid rag.

And the Taxpayer does not fund the CIE pension Fund it is entirely funded from contributions from the members just another thing you have completely wrong.


And quick question if in your dream scenario CIE was scrapped tomorrow who do you think would be driving the Trains, Buses and all the rest the same people who are doing it today and what Unions do you think they would belong to the same ones that they belong to now.

All that would change is the name over the door and if anything it would put the unions in a stronger position because they would being dealing with management who could not afford to have a strike.

Chris_533976

This thread is keeping me entertained :cool:

parsi

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I feel that a lot of this is due to the fact that CIE is rotten to its very core and is being driven by the sociopathic demands of a toxic trade union mindset (at its absolute most poisonius within Irish Rail) trapped in a 1970's mentality with no regard for the people who depend on public transport,

yadda yadda yadda.. a post worthy of the Sun if not the Irish Independent. Full of jingoism, buzzwords and downright insults obviously penned by a spotty pasty-faced nerd in a dark room festooned with Star Trek posters and toys overlooked by a handmade-lifesized Lara Croft figure - see that was written using the same type of egregiously offensive stereotype as you use.

I doubt many Trades Unionists in the CIE group have a desire to go back to the 70's or the past. Those were the years of piss-poor wages and even worse pensions, of long hours worked and shocking facilities. Ask any railwayman of a certain age to tell you about the state of the dormitories and you'll know what it was like. Ask them about spending Christmas Day rostered away from home. Ask them about their pittance of a pension received after grafting for the Company since age 15, ask them about giving blood and then having to shovel coal from Limerick to Dublin.

Ask about the history of workers in the railway and you may see why they have a sense of grievance (nowhere near as big as that pathologically malignant chip on your shoulder).

BTW - you're steering close to a Godwinism by mentioning the Gulags...

parsi

aliveandkicking wrote:

Fair cop, it was a bit low. i was just trying to make the point that if CIE and its unions didnt have the attitude they have (i.e. Bus Eireann hires a private contractor to run a school bus and drivers go on all out strike) then the school bus fleet might be in a lot better position than it is.

Not really. The Department of Education & Science pay for and award the school bus service contracts. So the Bus Eireann unions don't have much to do with it except through the taxes their members pay.

SO if our Government didn't put tax cuts for the rich and famous before basic public services we might have a great school-bus service.

BendiBus

Chris_533976 wrote:

This thread is keeping me entertained :cool:

It is quite good isn't it. Who's your favourite character?

John R

Red Alert wrote:

I agree with you to an extent - i find it totally unacceptable that crony-istic people get onto the higher echelons in CIE and do things like buying/selling hotels, harbours and the like. I would nearly argue that some other operations like the CIE Tours should also be outside of CIE's remit. The unions from time to time also behave irresponsibly, like the way ILDA killed the remaining industry goodwill towards Irish Rail.

CIE tours makes a nice profit for the group. They have a niche market that they are very well regarded in, Unlike property sales there is no downside to the operation for the core businesses. In fact it is a good use of resources, BE get new coaches for tours with a tax break that they can cascade after a year on to express work and they can also share capacity in the summer tour peaks and winter student travel peaks.

Red Alert wrote:

As a student engineer I find it bizarre even in the choice of vehicles and equipment. We seem to have gone for a one-stop-Volvo/Alex-shop in DB and CAF in IE, and have gone for a Wayfarer ticket system because it was the one we already had. Both of these point to non-technical people making decisions on things they know nothing about. Ten dennis tridents were bought by DB, that's a lot just for testing, or were they bought to put the screws on someone? (They are actually meant to be loved by drivers as the best buses DB has). We promptly went back to buying Volvo's - sounds a bit incompetent doesn't it? Irish rail then fire the CAF tincans onto the rails and to hell with the passengers who hate them (whilst paying for the privilage of riding in a design inspired by a public-toilet).

Having driven both of those types I would also much rather a Trident over a Volvo B7, they are faster, smoother and altogether a better bus IMO but they are also more expensive. The volvo isn't a bad vehicle by any means though, it is reliable, safe and pretty good to drive in general. The Alexander body has by far been the most popular on both chassis across the UK, not sure if it is the best design available but IMO there is not a lot of difference to the other main builders, although the Wright gemini is a much better looking bus. One major issue with the Alexander body was the windscreen angle causing distracting reflections from the interior lights, DB alone insisted that Alexander re-design the windscreen for further orders and all subsequent buses for them had the problem fixed.

Dublin Bus have gone for a policy of fleet standardisation which has a number of benefits. Large orders mean a better bargaining position for price and aftercare. It also means maintenance and spare parts inventory can be streamlined. All in all their decisions have made financial sense, all the orders go out to public tender to ensure a fair competition.

I would disagree with your assessment of the CAF trains, they are certainly unsuitable for intercity services but for commuter services they are not bad at all, they also have been very reliable from the beginning which is more than can be said for alot of other railcar products from big manufacturers in recent years.

The earlier railcars had come from 3 different suppliers and there were big problems with some of them, the CAF units have performed much better than the others.

Red Alert wrote:

I do admire you T21 for your beliefs in a private system and the fact that you do back up what you say. I think that for the publicly owned system to continue it must undergo a root and branch reform and i would be ruthless in carrying that out.

I don't admire anyone who takes a position and then rants, raves, tells outright lies and fantasies, twists and distorts any valid points to a ridiculous proportion, paints large groups of people as evil and malignant cartoon villans and just generally spams copious amounts of incoherent bile across the board.

Red Alert

I mean he has held up well amongst myself and the other CIE people. Cheers for the info about the DT/AV body - i've noticed the windscreens are more like the RA/RV's on the newer ones.

Transport21 Fan

shltter wrote:

I have reported this post to the Mods on this Forum.

Is he your union rep?

Will your next course of action will be a stoppage and refusal to post on this board?

Transport21 Fan

parsi wrote:

Full of jingoism, buzzwords and downright insults obviously penned by a spotty pasty-faced nerd in a dark room festooned with Star Trek posters and toys overlooked by a handmade-lifesized Lara Croft figure

That's me alright.

Transport21 Fan

John R wrote:

I don't admire anyone who takes a position and then rants, raves, tells outright lies and fantasies, twists and distorts any valid points to a ridiculous proportion, paints large groups of people as evil and malignant cartoon villans and just generally spams copious amounts of incoherent bile across the board.

Are you sure you have not been reading Micheal McDowell's CV?

CIE are a joke in terms of public transport provision, and their union a repostiory for huge numbers of dossiers. The good ones are sufferning because the dead weight in the trade uions are protected. Sorry, but that's how it is.

The truth is the truth.

Transport21 Fan

I mean he has held up well amongst myself and the other CIE people.

Cheers Red, and I respect you for admitting you are a CIE union person and you have a personal stake in this debate. I just want trains and buses to run for customer requirements and not CIE union lifestyle options. I can tell you this is how the vast majority of Irish commuters feel as well. This is just how it is.

This is not to say people like me have no empathy for when bus drivers are attacked (I started a thread on this forum about this recently in fact). But this does not mean the unions in CIE should be excused for their behaviour as it's a tiny minority of CIE employees who have been victims of anti-social behavior. They get my sympathy and support - not a BE driver in Kerry who read about it. I have also equally slammed CIE managers on this thread as I have no love for that shower of poltically appointed Hotelliers and Property Developers pretending to be running public transport.

The next time the DART drivers try to pull a stunt like get more money for no extra work or the carry on with new coaches, please try to look at the full picture of how this behaviour is bringing down all the staff in CIE instead of blindly supporting it, just because some bearded twat in Liberty Hall says so.

The unions are punishing the professional staff in CIE because the union in CIE always caters to the demands of the most dysfunctional elements within CIE and brings the entire company down to that level. There is such overwhelming evidence of this.

Remember the good guys in CIE are the biggest victims of all this mupperty.

Transport21 Fan

Red Alert wrote:

I do admire you T21 for your beliefs in a private system and the fact that you do back up what you say. I think that for the publicly owned system to continue it must undergo a root and branch reform and i would be ruthless in carrying that out.

That's sums it up for me too - except I would go the next stage and have CIE completely abolished and what can be privatised (busy bus routes/railfreight) do it, and put the rest under a new customer focussed public service structure - there is simply no reason for people getting on buses and trains paying their fares only to be subsidising hotel chain aquisitions.

We are a very critical stage in public transport develpment in Ireland. Where we end up going from here - depends on coming to terms with the past - both good and bad. We need to deal with the truth and it's not all "lack of investment" and arsehole polticians playing political football with CIE. These have played a part in the rot, but so have CIE managers and unions. This has to be faced up to as well.

Personally, I feel that CIE in terms of providing public transport has long overstayed it welcome and the only thing holding it together is weird CIE sectors involving ports, hotels, property and the CIE unions who believe that CIE serves no other function that providing them with union jobs for life no questions asked.

Change is good - CIE must go.

Victor

Locked.