Metro North open days

Winters

Metro North open days

* Tuesday, March 28th 2006:
Ballymun Civic Centre, Main Street, Ballymun, Dublin 11

* Thursday, March 30th 2006:
Fingal County Hall, Main Street, Swords, County Dublin

* Monday, April 3rd 2006:
Dublin City Council Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8

* Wednesday, April 5th 2006:
Regency Hotel, Swords Road, Dublin 9

* Friday, April 7th 2006:
Finglas Civic Office, Mellowes Road, Finglas, Dublin 11

* Monday, April 10th 2006:
Airport Great Southern Hotel, Dublin Airport


Source: http://www.rpa.ie/?id=301

BrianD

My 2 cents to the RPA. I was noticing that when you have to type into a little text box that the RPA have provided on the web site, how easy it is for typos and mis-spellings to go unnoticed...

I would like to 'Have my say' in regard to to the Metro consultation.

Firstly, I believe that the maps used in the consultation are flawed and unworthy of the process. They are flawed as:
a) While the indicate existing heavy rail lines. They fail to highlight existing stations and the sections of lines that are used as commuter (arrow/Dart)
b)It does not show where the proposed metro west will run and this would have a bearing on the West Route that is under consideration.
People need to see the spatial layout of existing services to make a judgement.

In relation to either of the three routes. It is a FUNDAMENTAL mistake that none of the proposed routes serve an existing mainline railway station - particularly Connolly.

It is a stated objective that the metro is "Not Just For Dubliners". How can this be the case when those outside of Dublin travelling by rail (or even bus) have to make two changes with all their companions and luggage to get to the airport. This will apply if they travel by bus to Busaras.

It is quite clear that the Red Line tram is not an efficient means of travelling between Connolly and Heuston particularly if you have a flight to catch. Even the 90 bus is faster.

Most Dubliner rail users will have a 2 stop change to reach the airport. A distinct disadvantage when direct bus services exist and when a Connolly station stop would allow most users transfer from DART/Arrow services in one change. This is something unusual to the Dublin metro.

Why terminate in Stephens Green? There is no good reason other than the RPA happened to have built the Green Line to there! It would seem that most metro users would prefer connections to other bus and rail services rather than being deposited in a public park.

Why are the the stops located north of the 'Maynooth Line' instead of on the line giving passengers an opportunity to change to these lines and avoid going into the city centre where there are no onward connections apart from the Green line tram. Another fundamental flaw.

Is it a policy of the RPA to deliberately avoid integration with other elements of the public transport networks and make integrated public transport a reality?

Unless these issues are addressed I think the City-Swords link would be best handled by a different organisation.

Yours faithfully
Name and address

Ends

Oddly there is no consultation event held for those south of the river apart from the city council offices.

MarkoP11

Fair play BrianD that captures most if not all of the issues but it will have little effect as the whole thing is setup to railroad their preferred solution

Whats more worrying is the fact the RPA have been told this many times before and continue to ignore. There is a view that they know all this and want to shift the blame on cost escalation either way it is clear that in line with the O'Reilly metro report a new state company "Dublin Metro Company" should handle the job instead of the RPA

There are major issues in all the alignments. The preferred airport station is at the Great Southern Hotel :eek:

Last Saturday the national transport users organisation held a half day event in Dublin to talk about Transport 21 and almost everywhere the need for joined up thinking an integration popped up. If you feel like it go to slide 7 on this http://www.platform11.org/resources/aiding_t21.pdf its starts to get interesting from there and yes the RPA had at least one person present during the presentation

One sentence explains the situation and its not just the RPA its IE and Dublin Bus all working together to avoid each other

Operators appear fearful that any real integration between services and fares will lead to a division of revenue and passengers

A Dub in Glasgo

Since I am in Dublin next week, I think I will go to the Regency Hotel day

paulm17781

MarkoP11 wrote:

Operators appear fearful that any real integration between services and fares will lead to a division of revenue and passengers

Even if I had to pay seperate fairs I would be happy (enough) it is the convinience not cost that bothers me. I want a simple journey like I could take in London/Paris/other real cities not this farce of having to walk x meters to change mode.

BendiBus

MarkoP11 wrote:

Operators appear fearful that any real integration between services and fares will lead to a division of revenue and passengers

That's the downside of competition. Competitors will fight to keep their customers. You can't blame them for that! One can argue that integration will grow the overall market, but I'm sure there's a counter-argument for that one.

If integration is a requirement it needs to be imposed by a higher authority.

murphaph

Just to quickly make a comment. I attended the open day in Ballymun today (wanted to catch them early on before they start to clam up). It strikes me that the RPA and IE are actually working a lot closer together (even to the extent of IE saying they could drop the barriers at interchange locations to suite the RPA's barrier free preferred option). The entire issue of integration at prospect seems to be cost. Same goes for Dublin Airport and the station being so remote. It seems the RPA have been given a very tight budget and have to build what they can with it. It's time to petition all your politicians folks, as well as the RPA. They need more money to get full on integration at Glasnevin or Drumcondra (yes, a hybrid option with station at Drumcondra, turning westwards to meet DCU appears to be seriously on the table). They're looking at dropping the interchange at Tara dropping the station at Upper O'Connell St in favour of a single station under Abbey/O'Connell streets allowing proper integration. I favour this. The savings can be directed at integration on the Maynooth line and indeed at Dublin Airport.

BrianD

I note also in the description of routes that it refers to a storage depot for TRAMS. I assume that this is a typo.

In regard to the connections for the Maynooth line (Drumcondra and Botanic). All they have to do (and I am being simplistic) is build under or very close to the existing station with escalatorsup and down. Same as any metro interchange.

The Connolly Station connection is an absolute glaring ommission. Unforgivable. It will make the use of the metro impractical to those travelling beyond Dublin as well as many living in Dublin. They are also assuming that those living along the route to Swords only want to go to the D1 and D2 areas and don't want to use other onward connections.

I don't see the barrier issue being a problem. You still have to a buy a ticket or use a smart card. The metro might be barrier free but there is no reason why the tickets can't be inserted into the IR barriers etc.

That's the RPA for you - no idea at all.

murphaph

BrianD wrote:

I note also in the description of routes that it refers to a storage depot for TRAMS. I assume that this is a typo.

Probably but the vehicles will be low floor units, similar to trams.

BrianD wrote:

In regard to the connections for the Maynooth line (Drumcondra and Botanic). All they have to do (and I am being simplistic) is build under or very close to the existing station with escalatorsup and down. Same as any metro interchange.

Well, that is a bit simplistic yeah. The stations will be constructed using a 'box' technique as opposed to being 'mined out' from the inside, so it is far from easy to do this under a live station. Mining stations is considerably more expensive. The station at Drumcondra is not set in stone, neither is the Prospect one but that would be much expensive to construct as the railway would be directly above any station. The Drumcondra option may yet be chosen. It has the massive advantage of having no interference with the live railway and could provide almost the same level of integration.

BrianD wrote:

The Connolly Station connection is an absolute glaring ommission. Unforgivable. It will make the use of the metro impractical to those travelling beyond Dublin as well as many living in Dublin. They are also assuming that those living along the route to Swords only want to go to the D1 and D2 areas and don't want to use other onward connections.

Not really unforgivable IMO. If interchange is provided along the Maynooth line then Sligo IC trains can interchange with it, as can trains from beyond Hazelhatch via the Phoenix Park Tunnel. A single line in a network can only serve so many places before it becomes chaotic and journey times are impacted negatively. I think dropping Connolly makes a good deal of sense. Remember that ultimately people travelling into Dublin who aren't commuters will be a very small percentage of metro users, so it's not so bad.

BrianD wrote:

That's the RPA for you - no idea at all.

The gentlemen I spoke to today had an obvious wealth of prior experience around the world. They know a lot about this stuff. The DoT/DoF have a lot to answer for here. Finance is a key issue. The guys I soke to encouraged me to make sure I made a submission indicating my preference for an interchange with the Maynooth line. They know that if enough people are made aware of it that govt. can be forced into coughing up an extra few quid for it.

Transport21 Fan

murphaph wrote:

The gentlemen I spoke to today had an obvious wealth of prior experience around the world. They know a lot about this stuff.

Indeed I had the same impression myself. Meeting and talking to these people was a real eye opener. The flak the RPA get is tragic in many ways.

Once you meet the RPA engineers you understand fully why they do not feel the need to answer some self-elevated nerdy boy's latest list of demands and criticisms. It would be like Daniel O' Donnell telling Colin Farrell how to pick up chicks.

BendiBus

I'll try to get to Wood Quay on Monday. I'm really not best pleased about the airport stop at the GSH. Or the Maynooth line dis-connection.

paulm17781

BendiBus wrote:

I'm really not best pleased about the airport stop at the GSH. Or the Maynooth line dis-connection.

They're the things that annoy me about it. Hopefully enought people will mention it to get them built.

Transport21 Fan

I think it is worth bearing in mind that while the RPA this week are involved in a major consultation with the public on Ireland's first underground urban railway, that CIE are in their usual beloved Donald Trump wannabe mode going to herculean efforts to close the deal on purchasing a chain of hotels.

Oh, and to be fair they also produced a "radical" plan for Dublin Bus which is mainly common sense (common sense and pragmatic thinking being a radical concept within CIE). The DB document practically boasted about not consulting with their passengers who are not "stakeholders" in public transport development apparently. Meanwhile the RPA will meet with hundreds of Dubliners at 6 different locations getting their input.

Between the RPA and CIE, whom would you trust to develop public transport solutions based on the behaviour of both during the past week?

markf909

The guys I soke to encouraged me to make sure I made a submission indicating my preference for an interchange with the Maynooth line

How does one make a submission, at the oral hearing?
Does it cost much?

BendiBus

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Between the RPA and CIE, whom would you trust to develop public transport solutions based on the behaviour of both during the past week?

I believe DB continuously consults with its customers. It is also my understanding that Iarnrod Eireann is currently having public meetings with people along the Midleton line.


My answer to your question therefore is CIÉ

murphaph

BendiBus,
I can say with confidence that having attended this open day (and it was quite open) and a recent public meeting where I 'tried' to talk to Michael Power of IE, that the RPA win hands down at least in their attitude to us plebians. Mr. Power couldn't get away from me fast enough while the two RPA men I spoke to today gave me and hour+ EACH!!! At no time did I feel like I was beng patronised or hoodwinked by these people. The pressure must be applied to your politicians and to Minister Cullen and An Taoiseach!!

Markf909, I'm not sure on the submission process. I don't think it costs anything though. I'll find out. Contact your TDs and councillors including community councils and resident's associations. Every bit of pressure will count on this.

markf909

Markf909, I'm not sure on the submission process. I don't think it costs anything though. I'll find out. Contact your TDs and councillors including community councils and resident's associations. Every bit of pressure will count on this.

Cheers murphaph, as a Maynooth line user and frequent airport user i'll be making a case for Glasnevin and the underground Airport connection.
As you say the more of us involved the better.

MarkoP11

markf909 wrote:

How does one make a submission, at the oral hearing?
Does it cost much?

All projects require a public consultation phase its not an optional its a part of the pile of paperwork required. You don't score points for doing one

Its free all you have to do is make a submission in writing to the agency (IE or RPA)

At the later stage at the public inquiry you are able to make both written and oral presentations again at no cost but you might have to shell out a few euro to get a copy of the plans, they are displayed publicly for some weeks but the pile is several phone books high so a copy on CD and ctrl f becomes your friend.

The senior staff on both sides both RPA and IE are very friendly until you catch them out. I've spoken to several at length. Ask the right questions and they both crack, mention Spencer Dock and IE management panic though the 5 I saw cornered actually admitted they knew nothing (when in doubt shut up), mention 40 m trams and the RPA lose it. I sat through a quite productive public meeting with 5 IE managers last week it lasted 2 hours 40 minutes

John R

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I think it is worth bearing in mind that while the RPA this week are involved in a major consultation with the public on Ireland's first underground urban railway that CIE are in their usual beloved Donald Trump wannabe mode going to herculean efforts to close the deal on purchasing a chain of hotels.

Oh, and to be fair they also produced a "radical" plan for Dublin Bus which is mainly common sense (common sense and pragmatic thinking being a radical concept within CIE). The DB document practically boasted about not consulting with their passengers who are not "stakeholders" in public transport development apparently. Meanwhile the RPA will meet with hundreds of Dubliners at 6 different locations getting their input.

Between the RPA and CIE, whom would you trust to develop public transport solutions based on the behaviour of both during the past week?

Sigh. More stupid contrived RPA V CIE point scoring. Would it be too much to ask for you to give all the biased over-hyped emotive garbage a rest now? It was slightly amusing the first few times but now it is just incredibly tiresome and as far as I am concerned it nullifys any useful input you may have.

Comparing these two events is ridiculous, the Metro project has been in planning for several years and is now at the initial public consultation stage while the DB Review document is an initial overview by independent consultants of proposed changes. It clearly includes public input through a schedule of consultation at the various stages. (Outlined in section 19.5 of the plan, in case you hadn't read that far)

There needs to be an initial plan, detailed objectives and properly researched options produced before any useful public consultation can be carried out and that document is the start of the process. Or would you rather they go up to people on the street with blank sheets of paper asking them to scribble down some considered opinions?

The stakeholders you disparagingly refer to are in the main other statutory bodies whose agreement and work are essential to making all parts of that plan workable. In the main they are the local authorities who will need to provide increased bus priority, new interchange facilities and various other peripheral support as well as the other transport providers who will need to co-operate in ticketing, co-ordinated information and proper multi-modal interchanging facilities.

Metrobest

murphaph wrote:

They're looking at dropping the interchange at Tara dropping the station at Upper O'Connell St in favour of a single station under Abbey/O'Connell streets allowing proper integration. I favour this. The savings can be directed at integration on the Maynooth line and indeed at Dublin Airport.

I don't!

I think the interchange at Tara Street is essential; I will be making this clear in my submission. Tara is the busiest station in Ireland, it's close to the IFSC and will link the metro with every station south of Tara as far as Greystones. If there is no travelator connecting the station at D'Olier St with Tara passengers would have to change at Pearse, take a DART to Stephen's Green and then a metro to the airport. Too cumbersome.

Most of the traffic on the Maynooth line is bound for the city; travel to the airport tends to be via the M50 which is in all likelyhood faster than any potential metro/DART. The cost issue of GJ, based on what Philip has said, is the real barrier here and it's question of cost and benefits. As it stands, I don't think an interchange at GJ is viable but one can and should be added should demand warrant.

Glad you had a nice experience with the RPA Philip. Good project management means communication and consultation to get the community on side, a tactic the RPA seem to have adopted. Good stuff.

Yes there is a contrast with the RPA and other semi state agencies, it's fair to say. I mean, Irish Rail just decided to build a station at Spencer Dock which nobody asked for and nobody needed without consulting a single passenger. On the Kildare route existing stations are due to be torn up and new one's built, again at the behest of private developers and not ordinary members of the public.

It is entirely right that the contrast is highlighted, even if the facts make some people squirm, especially those who from the word go had it in for the RPA, luas and metro; and are now hopping mad at the success story which all three have turned - or are turning - out to be.

maxheadroom

Metrobest wrote:

If there is no travelator connecting the station at D'Olier St with Tara passengers would have to change at Pearse, take a DART to Stephen's Green and then a metro to the airport. Too cumbersome.

This is all assuming the interconnector gets built, but couldn't they just stay on the train they're on (most passengers will be on a DART from Bray / Greystones) as far as glasnevin and interchange there? Makes more sense than changing at pearse, going 'back' one stop, then changing to metro?

Winters

Metrobest wrote:

I don't!

I think the interchange at Tara Street is essential; I will be making this clear in my submission. Tara is the busiest station in Ireland, it's close to the IFSC and will link the metro with every station south of Tara as far as Greystones. If there is no travelator connecting the station at D'Olier St with Tara passengers would have to change at Pearse, take a DART to Stephen's Green and then a metro to the airport. Too cumbersome.

Most of the traffic on the Maynooth line is bound for the city; travel to the airport tends to be via the M50 which is in all likelyhood faster than any potential metro/DART. The cost issue of GJ, based on what Philip has said, is the real barrier here and it's question of cost and benefits. As it stands, I don't think an interchange at GJ is viable but one can and should be added should demand warrant.

Glad you had a nice experience with the RPA Philip. Good project management means communication and consultation to get the community on side, a tactic the RPA seem to have adopted. Good stuff.

I would highly recommend that you attend one of the open days before making a submission. There is a lot more information to be gathered from meeting and talking to the RPA face to face.

Tara Street is indeed the busiest station in Ireland but it shall be surpassed both in the timeframe of T21 and after. Fact is that more people shall be passing through Glasnevin/Drumcondra than Tara Street come the conclusion of T21 and the RPAs figures confirm this.

They are more in favour of integrating with the Maynooth line north of the city centre than at Tara Street due to passenger numbers, costs and constructability among other factors.

The issue of serving the IFSC and Docklands region via Tara Street is surpassed by fact that the metro users can directly change at St. Stephen's Green to reach Spencer Dock or at O'Connell Street to take the luas red line through the IFSC to the Point.

One again I reiterate that you attend one of open days, your local one preferably, and consult with them on any issues you have before making a submission.

mackerski

Metrobest wrote:

Tara is the busiest station in Ireland, it's close to the IFSC

Metrobest wrote:

I mean, Irish Rail just decided to build a station at Spencer Dock which nobody asked for and nobody needed

'Nuff said...

Metrobest wrote:

I think the interchange at Tara Street is essential; I will be making this clear in my submission. Tara is the busiest station in Ireland, it's close to the IFSC and will link the metro with every station south of Tara as far as Greystones.

Tara St. is running overcapacity. There are two approaches you can take to this. You could say "let's make this poky station an even bigger hub than it already is". OTOH, you could observe "hey, the city's new transport plans will offload Tara St. nicely by delivering a lot of today's passengers to brand new stations elsewhere in the city".

The Metro doesn't need to hit Tara St. to provide interchange with the Bray line - as long as it interchanges with the Maynooth line somewhere.

Dermot

paulm17781

When I first saw the plans I thought Tara St. was essential to the metro, after some discussion I realised it is not. Interchanges at Stephen's Green (Kildare - Drogheda) and Glasnevin (Bray - Maynooth) will be more than adequate. Yes the IFSC will suffer slightly but many more will gain.

The only reason Tara is so busy is that it is the most 'central' station. All that will change if T21 gets finished.

Winters

Metrobest wrote:

I mean, Irish Rail just decided to build a station at Spencer Dock which nobody asked for and nobody needed without consulting a single passenger.

That is simply not true.

In March 2000 Iarnród Éireann engaged Ove Arup to undertake the Dublin Suburban Rail Strategic Review which examined the Dunboyne to Clonsilla line and concluded that: “This cannot be implemented without additional capacity in the city central area. .”

The new station at Sheriff Street allows the expansion of services to both Pace and Maynooth. Not building it would cause increased congestion both on the trains and on the roads. The people along the Maynooth line can't afford to wait till the interconnector is completed in 2015.

aliveandkicking

Metrobest wrote:

I think the interchange at Tara Street is essential

Well the RPA don't! Out of their own mouth they have said they want to scrap the Tara Street interchange and instead build an interchange with Maynooth-Bray DART/Navan/Sligo lines at Glasnevin or Drumcondra. This is not a Platform 11 pipe dream Metrobest, this is actually coming out of the RPA engineers and designers mouths at the Metro Consultation Open Days at the moment. The reason its not in any of the routes is a cost issue thanks to the DOF/DOT.

murphaph

^^What they said^^. Sorry metrobest, gonna start disagreeing with ya again (well it's been ages since we fought ). The RPA want Maynooth line integratio as they are fully aware the post T21 DART network will be an X shape with Pearse in the centre. They told me yesterday that their models show vey few people changing from the Maynooth-Bray DART to/from metro at Tara in the event there is an interchange at either Glasnevin or Drumcondra. If you think about it carefully, who would need to change at Tara? Nobody coming southbound would stay on the DART only to double back on themselves and if they want to go to the green then Pearse is pretty close or they could change at Glasnevin/Drumcondra if it's raining

Northbound Bray-Maynooth DART users who want to go to O'Connell St can just get off at Tara anyway. If they want the Green then Pearse is close enough.

Eliminating Tara will allow them a straight run up under O'Connell Street and present them an opportunity to interchange properly with Luas at Abbey Street. Tara is seen by them as a PITA. They are actively looking at combining the 'Trinity' and Upper 'O'Connell Street stops to a single stop at O'Connell St lower at the Luas Red line. This makes a great deal of sense. It also improves journey times by shortening the route and removing a stop. Thinking about it, Abbey St is virtually O'Connell Bridge so it's fine for Temple Bar etc. Stephen's Green is fine for that whole area right down Grafton Street.

The cost savings also mean there is more money available to provide a quality interchange at Glasnevin or Drumcondra and also help fund the tunnel under the airport. The RPA are genuinely looking at doing these things to make the metro more things to more people. I know you're not in Ireland metrobest but think really hard about it before you make your submission, pleeeaaasssse

MarkoP11

Tara Street is a no go on a cost basis, also the fact its the busiest (Pearse actually is the busiest at evening rush) means its proably not the best place to choose

The lack of public support (i.e. on paper) of the RPA for Glasnevin Junc is the problem. All the chosen alignments are pretty poor on sense and integration. They clearly have a plan they would rather not make known in the media, thats worrying why hide it if it has a better end result.

I've been to too many of these things and it doesn't matter who is running it they always come across as friendly and give you the impression you wil get what you want.

Metrobest wrote:

I mean, Irish Rail just decided to build a station at Spencer Dock which nobody asked for and nobody needed without consulting a single passenger. On the Kildare route existing stations are due to be torn up and new one's built, again at the behest of private developers and not ordinary members of the public.

Complete total rubbish

A series of public consultation meetings where held concerning Spencer Dock North in late 2003 early 2004. At least 5 of those meetings took place. These meetings included the entire development, facilities, the rail station and the interconnector station.

The meetings went under the title of "Spencer Dock North Forum" and where held in the Spencer Dock Information Centre. A high quality newsletter was also printed in colour detailing progress showing plans in detail

Those in attendance where mainly from the local area such as Sheriff Street and Church Road i.e. the real local public

It did happen and it did so very publicly and a written result of each meeting was produced in the format of the newsletter.

Public consulatation also took place on the Kildare line through a number of public meetings as required for by the EIS for the works order. The net result is more stations, more trains. The developers are paying for the stations. Its physically impossible to have a station in Cherry Orchard as the two suburban tracks will be partially underground at that point once the full project is completed

BrianD

Metrobest wrote:

I don't!

I think the interchange at Tara Street is essential; I will be making this clear in my submission. Tara is the busiest station in Ireland, it's close to the IFSC and will link the metro with every station south of Tara as far as Greystones. If there is no travelator connecting the station at D'Olier St with Tara passengers would have to change at Pearse, take a DART to Stephen's Green and then a metro to the airport. Too cumbersome.

Not essential. Connolly is a better option and it is a mainline rail terminus. One of the 'objectives' of the metro is that it is not 'just for Dublin people' Dublin Airport is a national airport and should have national rail connections. Furthermore, I would see difficulties with the environs of Tara St. being able to handle more pedestrian traffic. Connolly kills multiple birds with one stone - main line rail, suburban rail/Dart and tram and is adjacent to the central bus station. Plus argueable it would take some pressure of Tara St.

Most of the traffic on the Maynooth line is bound for the city; travel to the airport tends to be via the M50 which is in all likelyhood faster than any potential metro/DART. The cost issue of GJ, based on what Philip has said, is the real barrier here and it's question of cost and benefits. As it stands, I don't think an interchange at GJ is viable but one can and should be added should demand warrant.

That's a bit short sighted and old fashioned thinking. It's bound for the city because like the buses that's where they go! The option to avoid the city centre is what we want and it encourages more equal development around the city. Give passengers a one change option to get to the airport from Maynooth and I am sure they will take it. You obviously haven't been on the M50 for a while - plus it relies on you having a car. These interchanges are not just an option they are ESSENTIAL. They wou;dn't be ommitted in any other European city.

Glad you had a nice experience with the RPA Philip. Good project management means communication and consultation to get the community on side, a tactic the RPA seem to have adopted. Good stuff.

I find it hard to believe that the RPA Good and project management could go in the same sentence. I'm looking forward to their bosses talking about 'breaking eggs' later. I do hope they have learned from their management of the Luas project.

Yes there is a contrast with the RPA and other semi state agencies, it's fair to say. I mean, Irish Rail just decided to build a station at Spencer Dock which nobody asked for and nobody needed without consulting a single passenger. On the Kildare route existing stations are due to be torn up and new one's built, again at the behest of private developers and not ordinary members of the public.

How did you work that out? Have you been in Dublin lately???? I suggest you take a look at what's happening east of Connolly station and south of the river. A rail connection is needed there. So yeah they are asking it for it and its needed big time.

It is entirely right that the contrast is highlighted, even if the facts make some people squirm, especially those who from the word go had it in for the RPA, luas and metro; and are now hopping mad at the success story which all three have turned - or are turning - out to be.

Everybody knew the Luas was going to be a success! Who ever said it wouldn't? What wasn't a success is the way the project was delivered by the RPA. Now, Look at the obvious mistakes that they are making with the Metro north as indicated in my posting. The metro that connects with nothing - a first for Europe! The tourists arriving into Dublin will have a hoot at that while the rest of us will still be taking the direct bus. Complete failure of thinking of the RPA.

Metrobest

I honesty believe an interchange with Tara Street is an essential part of the metro project, and I'm very concerned that Philip has said they are considering dropping the Trinity stop. I would be so annoyed if that happened! But judging by what's on the table, I don't see GJ being part of the picture.

I would prioritise as follows:
1) Airport stop as close as possible to existing terminal. An AMS or STN scenario would be ideal, but I think we will end up with something more like BCN, judging by the plans!
2) Stops at Trinity and O'Connell Street; it cannot be either/or, otherwise why bother running the metro under the city if it's going to bypass the places people want and need to go to.
3) Tara Street interchange.
4) GJ - subject to proper CBA

I also talked informally to the RPA late last year about Tara Street and it is my understanding that a travelator linking Trinity and Tara was their preferred option at that time...

The stop on the south side should be Tara-Trinity linking the D'Olier Street metro ticket concourse with the DART platforms at Tara via an underground walkway.

Passengers for the Maynooth-Bray DART could enter the station at D'Olier Street and take the walkway to Tara. The benefits are as follows:

- All the pressure taken off the existing concourse at Tara as most Tara Street passengers would enter/exit via the D'Olier Street concourse.

- Journeys such as Sandymount-DCU and Dun Laoghaire-Mater hospital become very feasible as the Tara Street interchange gives the fastest, most direct journey possible.

- 80% of metro passengers won't be going to/from the airport, they will be going to the other stations on the line.


As for Brian D's assertion that the metro doesn't integrate with everything, that's just laughable. It connects with suburban trains and luas at Stephen's Green, suburban trains at Tara, luas at O'Connell Street, and practically every single bus route in dublin city. You know that Brian, don't you?

Metrobest

Winters wrote:

That is simply not true.
.

What's not true about my statement?

Nobody asked Irish Rail to build a station on Sheriff St.
Nobody wanted a station on Sheriff St, certainly no Maynooth line passenger did.

Irish Rail therefore decided to build a station at Sheriff Street, Dublin 1, that nobody asked for and nobody wanted.

They may have consulted some of the residents of the corporation housing down at Sheriff St who'll have to suffer the noise and disruption for two years+, but they never consulted passengers on the Maynooth line due to dumped each morning into one of Dublin's dodgiest areas.