Fertility Test

coffee_cake

Pearly earrings wrote:

Would you like to be married to someone you love, but unhappy for the rest of your life because you cannot have children with your partner? Think of the strain this underlying unhappiness would put on your relationship!

For some people, having children is one of their aims / goals in life and they take this issue quite seriously. A healthy relationship should fulfil your needs, both sexual and otherwise. An infertile relationship would be somewhat lacking in fulfilling some peoples needs and trap them in an unhappy situation for a long time.

Then adopt. Problem solved.
If you love them that much, are you going to dump them anyway for being infertile? And be happy if they did the same to you if you were infertile?

shroomfox

Would it be wrong to request that your partner get a fertility test done before you get married?

Nah. Fair enough.

Zulu

Pearly earrings wrote:

Would you like to be married to someone you love, but unhappy for the rest of your life because you cannot have children with your partner? Think of the strain this underlying unhappiness would put on your relationship!

...or you could leave the person you love and marry a nice sperm producer that might loves you, but who you don't love. Imagine the strain this underlying unhappiness would put on your relationship. ...and you'd have little ones to consider.

What a nice liitle family you'd have there. :rolleyes:

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote:

Life is not perfect, and you are not automatically entitled to perfect marriage with healthy kids and so on, but neither does this mean that you should live it by the seat of your pants.

For example, STI tests are not an uncommon demand in relationships and if one or other party tests positive this invariably will lead to a break-up. Certainly an STI is not the same thing as fertility as an STI could put your own life in peril, however we’re still back at the same principle of cold-blooded assessment of a relationship that people here are falling over themselves like lemmings to reject.

This does not mean that you’re entitled to perfect marriage with healthy kids and so on, but it does mean that you should realistically use your head and not your heart when considering a life term commitment and stop coming out with meaningless platitudes about ‘true love’ and ‘for better or worse’.

Well said TC. Finally an adult response that is not accompanied by cartoon hearts floating around it.

Zulu

metrovelvet wrote:

Well said TC. Finally an adult response that is not accompanied by cartoon hearts floating around it.

Very good! I like the way you did that - both insult and disregard all posters who don't happen to agree with you! Real mature. :rolleyes:

hepcat

The Corinthian wrote:

Life is not perfect, and you are not automatically entitled to perfect marriage with healthy kids and so on, but neither does this mean that you should live it by the seat of your pants.

For example, STI tests are not an uncommon demand in relationships and if one or other party tests positive this invariably will lead to a break-up. Certainly an STI is not the same thing as fertility as an STI could put your own life in peril, however we’re still back at the same principle of cold-blooded assessment of a relationship that people here are falling over themselves like lemmings to reject.

This does not mean that you’re entitled to perfect marriage with healthy kids and so on, but it does mean that you should realistically use your head and not your heart when considering a life term commitment and stop coming out with meaningless platitudes about ‘true love’ and ‘for better or worse’.

I don't think its that black and white. I'm far from being a naieve "true love conquers all" idealist, but neither do I think you should apply logic OVER emotion when considering a long term commitment such as marriage. In fact, I would believe that love for your partner is the best basis for a long and happy marriage, and everything after is a bonus. And if you love your partner, then their fertility should not be a "deal-breaker". Otherwise, why not be really realistic and marry for love but adopt or go to a sperm donor (having naturally checked out their sperm quality and likelihood of producing the best possible offspring!).

What I am trying to say is that - forget about platitudes and rose-tinted ideals - prospects for a happy long term relationship cannot be compared to a balance sheet, with "compatibility scores" and "physcial qualifications" taking precendence over the old fashioned notion of love. And if having kids is more important than a happy relationship, then that relaionship may well end in tears leaving you with just the kids and no marriage.

Flush Phill

I'd check pre-matromony. If you go all in, you're obviously pot committed and in Ireland your outs are limited.

You've got good odds, but why turn down a free flop?

quad_red

metrovelvet wrote:

Well said TC. Finally an adult response that is not accompanied by cartoon hearts floating around it.

Yes.

By 'adult' you mean your opinion.

Faith

I'm not sure has this been asked before, and I'm not going to read back and find out, but what would you do should your partner be infertile? Dump him? Throw away everything just because you can't bear his children? Is that really a grounds for ending an otherwise good, stable relationship?

metrovelvet

By adult I mean not clouded in sentimentality and able to face honestly tough decisions.

Kids/family planning are often cul de sac when it comes to the sink or swim in a relationship.

The Corinthian

hepcat wrote:

I don't think its that black and white. I'm far from being a naieve "true love conquers all" idealist, but neither do I think you should apply logic OVER emotion when considering a long term commitment such as marriage.

In fairness, I wasn’t directing my criticism at you in particular.

In fact, I would believe that love for your partner is the best basis for a long and happy marriage, and everything after is a bonus. And if you love your partner, then their fertility should not be a "deal-breaker".

Oh dear, first you say it’s not black and white then you come out with this silly rubbish. What happens if you love your partner (and vice versa) and they’re also unfaithful, alcoholics or prone to violence?

A poor spouse is a "deal-breaker" for a few. An unfaithful one is for many. One prone to violence is for most. We’ve no problem being cold blooded and accepting that love is not enough when we need to - it simply depends on what we consider to be our "deal-breaker".

And what’s a "deal-breaker"? That’s really up to you and there’s very little others can do about it. Infidelity for me would not necessarily be a "deal-breaker", but I accept that it is for others. So we can lecture the OP on how shallow she is, but when you come down to it were she to follow the advice of the love struck lemmings here, and her fiancé is a jaffa, she’d quite possibly regret her choice each and every time she sees a pram being pushed around.

shroomfox

Flush Phill wrote:

I'd check pre-matromony. If you go all in, you're obviously pot committed and in Ireland your outs are limited.

You've got good odds, but why turn down a free flop?

OK, when you start talking in Poker, you've got problems.

Zulu

metrovelvet wrote:

By adult I mean not clouded in sentimentality and able to face honestly tough decisions.

Your 'adult' notions appear to have overlooked what happens after conception. I would argue that a relationship founded with the primary purpose of reproducing isn't the best family unit to raise a child in.

metrovelvet

So what in your opinion is the best family unit to raise a child in?

Nevyn

In many other countries a blood test is needed before you can get married.
People who have genetic predispositions to certain conditions will have genetic screenings done
for both them and thier partner to see what are the chances of passing on fatal or severely life damaging conditions.
A lot of people do this in the run up to getting married.
If they have decided to marry it is unlikly to change that happening but at
least they know all the facts first and can then if having children is not an option look at what other options are advailible.

I do know of some one who was enguaged who when finding out it would be a slim to none chance of her being able to have kids
offered him back the ring as he had said he always wanted children, they did get maried and are looking at adoption.

I would not suggest a fertility test, maybe a screening so you both know where you stand both fertilty and inheritance genetically wise.

Heavens forbid people actually consider and plan thier lifes and look to what may happen and try to find out instead of
blundering along getting married and having it sour due to expetations they then find they can't forfill or work arround.

hepcat

The Corinthian wrote:

In fairness, I wasn’t directing my criticism at you in particular.

Oh dear, first you say it’s not black and white then you come out with this silly rubbish. What happens if you love your partner (and vice versa) and they’re also unfaithful, alcoholics or prone to violence?

A poor spouse is a "deal-breaker" for a few. An unfaithful one is for many. One prone to violence is for most. We’ve no problem being cold blooded and accepting that love is not enough when we need to - it simply depends on what we consider to be our "deal-breaker".

And what’s a "deal-breaker"? That’s really up to you and there’s very little others can do about it. Infidelity for me would not necessarily be a "deal-breaker", but I accept that it is for others. So we can lecture the OP on how shallow she is, but when you come down to it were she to follow the advice of the love struck lemmings here, and her fiancé is a jaffa, she’d quite possibly regret her choice each and every time she sees a pram being pushed around.

What gives you the right to call someone elses opinion silly rubbish with your "oh dear" intimations of intellectual superiority?

I do accept that there are "deal-breakers" like alcoholism, infidelity and violence. I would not compare these traits with someone having a low-sperm count BUT I can accept that some would. I can accept that having kids is an extremely important issue for anyone, but in my opinion I think that asking a loved one for a fertility test is too controlling, may not even work out and should not be a reason for throwing away an otherwise loving relationship.

If as your so nicely put it her fiance is a "jaffa", there are other means of conceiving and having children.

Zulu

metrovelvet wrote:

So what in your opinion is the best family unit to raise a child in?

...do you care?

I'd rather not hijack the thread. Feel free to PM me, or start another thread "Zulu's ideal family unit"

The Corinthian

hepcat wrote:

What gives you the right to call someone elses opinion silly rubbish with your "oh dear" intimations of intellectual superiority?

You really have to ask?

I do accept that there are "deal-breakers" like alcoholism, infidelity and violence. I would not compare these traits with someone having a low-sperm count BUT I can accept that some would. I can accept that having kids is an extremely important issue for anyone, but in my opinion I think that asking a loved one for a fertility test is too controlling, may not even work out and should not be a reason for throwing away an otherwise loving relationship.

Then you marry him.

Has opinion now become the universal licence for spouting whatever idiotic and unfounded notion we have in our skulls?

metrovelvet

What's a Jaffa?

hepcat

The Corinthian wrote:

You really have to ask?

Then you marry him.

Has opinion now become the universal licence for spouting whatever idiotic and unfounded notion we have in our skulls?

1. Yep, I really have to ask.

2. "Then you marry him"???? Read the OP's thread - she asked for our opinions.

3. So you don't have opinions, you just know everything? And the rest of us spout idiotic and unfounded notions? Glad I don't live in your world.

BaZmO*

metrovelvet wrote:

What's a Jaffa?

It's a reference to the type of Orange called a Jaffa that produces no seeds.

metrovelvet

Well he can always say no. OP if you asked and he said no what would you do?

BTW have you gotten tested yourself? Do you realise the can of worms your opening up with this as a woman? Reread the the myth of Pandora's Box.

Are you sure this is not cold feet?

ambro25

metrovelvet wrote:

By adult I mean not clouded in sentimentality and able to face honestly tough decisions.

One is not necessarily exclusive of the other.

Thinking back to the OP and reading the thread thus far, I'm of a mind that there's precious few happily-married people left these days.

To the OP - if it is so important to you, to the point where you would consider an infertile partner unsuitable material for a lifelong commitment, why are you contemplating marriage at all? Why not leave it to a relationship, or even no relationship at all (other than of a contractulal nature with a sperm bank)? In fact, extrapolating further still, why don't you help finish burying the "2.3 kids, 1.5 car, happy suburbia" thing altogether and adopt the noughties single-parent unit model: get your kid(s) now, marry (perhaps) later?

That sounds sensible and 'adult' enough no? (in a facing honestly tough decisions kind of way )

is_that_so

Let's fast forward a bit - say 20 years.

"My name is John(not my real name) and I am an only child. My parents went through an ugly divorce when I was in my teens. According to my father the only reason they got married is so my mother could have a child. He agreed because he loved her, unconditionally. He resents the fact that the most important thing to my mother was his fertility. Or so he tells me. He has never been able to understand it. I am not sure I do either. My mother doesn't deny this but she says she always wanted children and wanted to be sure?"

metrovelvet

No, that isnt adult enough because it doesnt take into full account the realities of going to find a doner, implantation, costs, maintentance, nor does it consider the philisophical, moral and emotional implications for the child once it is born and raised.

Shabadu

Every relationship is different. People enter relationships with different end goals and desired results. If the OP wants a baby, with a preference for conceiving the old-fashioned way and has no desire to adopt, then it is absolutely their prerogative to ask for a fertility test.

It is the partner's prerogative to say "sod off and find some other impregnator" or "of course, as long as you too will assent to one".

simu

Zulu wrote:

Your 'adult' notions appear to have overlooked what happens after conception. I would argue that a relationship founded with the primary purpose of reproducing isn't the best family unit to raise a child in.

People do fall in love more than once. Why couldn't a person fall in love with a fertile partner after having broken up with the infertile one? And why the hell do people think the process of having a child is some mystical and spiritual quest when it's a simple matter of biology, really?!

Nevyn

Because not everyone can concieve and carry a child.
With couples delaying having thier first child past the point where a woman is
natually most fertile and with the fall in the fertility of people in the country
this is becoming more and more of an issue.

simu

Thaedydal wrote:

Because not everyone can concieve and carry a child.
With couples delaying having thier first child past the point where a woman is
natually most fertile and with the fall in the fertility of people in the country
this is becoming more and more of an issue.

Which is all the more reason why people should discuss these things openly and not get offended about it imho.

rsynnott

Hmm, the thing is that in this day and age, people do supposedly marry primarily because they love each other. I suppose it all comes down to how big a deal this is to you and how opposed you are to artificial intervention, adoption etc. But it just seems to me to be a horrendous condition to put on marriage.