Are SUV's that bad?

mayhem#

ds20prefecture wrote:

Any 7 seater car with a Euro NCAP rating? Do you really need to bring all of the family off road regularly? Are the roads that bad in Tipp?

Read my post "7+ seats". I have 5 kids, together with the wife and myself that makes 7. Add the childminder and your choice of cars is severely limited. I innitially wanted to buy a Chevrolet Suburban but these are almost impossible to find in Ireland.

I'll grant you it is a difficult proposition to meet all of your criteria with one car, but with a budget of €45k (the cost of a new Defender station wagon) it should be possible to meet it with 2.

Mmmm, and have take up twice the roadspace, create more emmisions, have to go everywhere in two cars when the whole family is coming along? Not really a sensible option. We have a 2nd car by the way (a Volvo estate with a 3rd row of seats). Also the Defender can carry loads of people AND still have room for luggage. Have you ever seen the amount of sh*t 5 kids take along on holidays?!

My point is that the Defender makes very little concessions to occupant safety - almost any other car is a better place for your family to be in an accident. The chinese clone of the Opel Frontera (another separate chassis, old tech 4x4) scored 0 in the Euro NCAP. That design is 30 years younger than yours. This could be why the Defender has not been tested.

Age doesn't neccesary mean worse. Also taking al my other requirements in consideration the Defender is still the best choice IMHO.

If safety is the number one concern, perhaps a Grand Scenic or Espace for road use and a beater Trooper or Fourtrak for off road. If having a big "**** off" factor and a cool car is the number one priority, then the defender, or maybe a hummer, is spot on.

None of the above mentioned meet more of my criteria than the Defender. Space is my main criteria. The "**** off" factor is nice but not my primary concern. I drove Volvo's and Saabs before this so being cool is not something that is paramount.

E.

maidhc

mayhem# wrote:

Age doesn't neccesary mean worse. Also taking al my other requirements in consideration the Defender is still the best choice IMHO.

Well it means 50 years of development is pretty much lost on it. No airbags, abs, etc as well.

Maybe a better compromise would have been a Patrol GR or Landcruiser VX

Anan1

mayhem# wrote:

Let's put it this way; if I have the whole family in the car and am involved in a crash whose safety has my priority?

E.

I think that we've gathered at this stage that it's not your family's. Or the occupants of any other car's. Or pedestrian's. Whose then?

Gerry

mayhem# wrote:

Read my post "7+ seats". I have 5 kids, together with the wife and myself that makes 7. Add the childminder and your choice of cars is severely limited. I innitially wanted to buy a Chevrolet Suburban but these are almost impossible to find in Ireland.

Well, if the first choice was a suburban, I'm glad you got the defender.

mayhem# wrote:

Mmmm, and have take up twice the roadspace, create more emmisions, have to go everywhere in two cars when the whole family is coming along? Not really a sensible option. We have a 2nd car by the way (a Volvo estate with a 3rd row of seats). Also the Defender can carry loads of people AND still have room for luggage. Have you ever seen the amount of sh*t 5 kids take along on holidays?!

In terms of length, you might take up twice the roadspace. In terms of emissions, if you bought 2 fuel efficient cars, I'd say you'd create less emissions. For those rare occasions when you don't put 7 people in the car, you'd take one car, and create far less emissions.

mayhem# wrote:

Age doesn't neccesary mean worse. Also taking al my other requirements in consideration the Defender is still the best choice IMHO.

Not necessarily, if it was a car designed to carry many passengers in comfort and with safety as a priority, which it wasn't and isn't.

mayhem# wrote:

None of the above mentioned meet more of my criteria than the Defender. Space is my main criteria. The "**** off" factor is nice but not my primary concern. I drove Volvo's and Saabs before this so being cool is not something that is paramount.

E.

Ah the "**** off" factor, the heart of the matter.

mayhem#

Anan1 wrote:

I think that we've gathered at this stage that it's not your family's. Or the occupants of any other car's. Or pedestrian's. Whose then?

Do you honestly expect me to reply to that?
But then again I just did...

E.

mayhem#

Gerry wrote:

Well, if the first choice was a suburban, I'm glad you got the defender.

Well that's my sole purpose in live, making you happy, isn't it...

In terms of length, you might take up twice the roadspace. In terms of emissions, if you bought 2 fuel efficient cars, I'd say you'd create less emissions. For those rare occasions when you don't put 7 people in the car, you'd take one car, and create far less emissions.

OK, you calculate the emmisions of two average cars and see how they compare to the emisions of one Defender. If the emisions of the two cars are less I will gladly accept your point..

Not necessarily, if it was a car designed to carry many passengers in comfort and with safety as a priority, which it wasn't and isn't.

But those weren't my only criteria, were they now?

Ah the "**** off" factor, the heart of the matter.

You seem to suffer from dyslexia, either that or you are purposely ignoring the Whole content of my arguments and cherrypicking just to suit your own argument..

E.

P.S. Let me just add that apart from all the above arguments I *also* drive this car because I want to and I can!

Anan1

Yes.

Anan1

mayhem# wrote:

Do you honestly expect me to reply to that?

Yes.

Gerry

mayhem, I can't be bothered quoting all the separate bits of that post.
Yes, I agree that there are other criteria why you might choose a defender. I just don't happen to agree with you on the criteria mentioned above, namely that its a safe way to carry seven people. I will agree with you that it has plent y of space. You are glossing over the points that others are making about it being an old design.
I'd need to know whether the defender is petrol or diesel before doing any calculations on emissions, just let me know which engine is init.
Thanks for the dyslexia accusation, its a new one. I won't sink to that level, I'm just disagreeing with you on a few points.

JohnBoy

all new defenders use the td5 diesel.

there is no petrol defender in ireland, or europe for that matter since the late 90s

south africa has/had a 2.8 petrol in recent times alright

mayhem, let me take this oppurtunity to tell you that i like the wheels, nice machine

ps where in tipp? live near thurles myself, rebuilding a 1964 109 at the moment

with modern mechanicals

ds20prefecture

mayhem# wrote:

Read my post "7+ seats". I have 5 kids, together with the wife and myself that makes 7. Add the childminder and your choice of cars is severely limited.

Don't forget the neighbours, and anyone else who might like to ride along! Tell me - do you always go off roading with all of your family and the child minder?

Mmmm, and have take up twice the roadspace, create more emmisions, have to go everywhere in two cars when the whole family is coming along?

They only use twice the emissions and take up twice the road space if you drive both cars at the same time. How many trips do the whole family take with the child minder?

Have you ever seen the amount of sh*t 5 kids take along on holidays?!

When I was younger, I went on holidays to France with my brother's family. There were 9 of us and our luggage packed into a 7 seat Volvo V240, and we drove across the width of england and the length of France. So yes, I know the amount of crap that 5 kids take along on holidays. This was, of course, back in the days when people didn't care about child safety in cars and accident fatalities were much higher than they are now.

Age doesn't neccesary mean worse.

In terms of passive and active safety it most certainly does.

How about a Land Rover Discovery? Or a Toyota Land Cruiser? Or a VW Caravelle? Or a (whisper it) Ssangyong Rodius with the 9 seat option? Or a Grand Scenic and a trailer/roof box and a 30 euro Ryanair flight for the child minder?

It is interesting how few cars cater for a good sized family.

colm_mcm

Mayhem, just wondering what you think of the Santana jeeps, being a LR enthusiast?