Election Results (so far)

europerson

Thirdfox wrote:

"Momentarily deeply unhappy"

Awayindahils

shay_562 wrote:

And as for the results:
President - I've heard so, so many bad things about him that I'm kinda worried.
Dep President - he was godawful at the Dining Hall hustings, but I suppose better him than the joke candidates.
Ents - happy enough, I guess. He seems like he'll do a good job, even if he wasn't my first choice. Or second, for that matter. Or third, now that I think of it.

you're just a b@tch. There is an increasing likeness to the devil boy aviator.

but still fair enough, time i suppose will see how justified your reservations are.

hallsp

will do a damn good job. At least that's my two cents. In fairness though- he is a friend so I'm obviously biased. I wouldn't worry though- he knows his stuff and he has the Union at heart.

Thanks to everyone who voted though! Pity it wasn't a majority of the 15,000 students but what can you do? You can't drag people to the polls..

And Donal...It's pretty drafty at the best of times in House 6.

Awayindahils

hallsp wrote:

Thanks to everyone who voted though! Pity it wasn't a majority of the 15,000 students but what can you do? You can't drag people to the polls..

You could try or frog march them or something. The turn out really was abmissmal and worse with the percentage of spoils in some elections. i know im young and probably overly idealistic but 2500??? we should expect more of ourselves as students in general.

it kinda makes something the provost said make sense though. there are a certain group of students within college who are heavily involved in general. they or their friends are on society or club commitees or are in su. once they get involved in the college with clubs or societies it matters to them on a personal level who gets what in terms of sabbs. at every night out held by the su or general big nights out this same general large group of people turn up again and again all be it in different numbers. say at anyone time this make up about 2000-4000? students. im not tlaking everyone whos involved in clubs or societies there are plenty of people involved who just want to play their sport and have a good time. but its this same group. so its the other 10000+ students who need to be motivated. in fairness the election was 12,500 people telling the union to shag off.

Awayindahils

Awayindahils wrote:

You could try or frog march them or something. The turn out really was abmissmal and worse with the percentage of spoils in some elections. i know im young and probably overly idealistic but 2500??? we should expect more of ourselves as students in general.

it kinda makes something the provost said make sense though. there are a certain group of students within college who are heavily involved in general. they or their friends are on society or club commitees or are in su. once they get involved in the college with clubs or societies it matters to them on a personal level who gets what in terms of sabbs. at every night out held by the su or general big nights out this same general large group of people turn up again and again all be it in different numbers. say at anyone time this make up about 2000-4000? students. im not tlaking everyone whos involved in clubs or societies there are plenty of people involved who just want to play their sport and have a good time. but its this same group. so its the other 10000+ students who need to be motivated. in fairness the election was 12,500 people telling the union to shag off.

Yep, year before it was c. 3,700. I was hoping for around 3,000.

[edit]

2006 results.
2005 results.
2004 results.
2003 results [in pdf].

Thirdfox

what if you bribe people with lollipops to vote? and threaten them with execution if they don't... I think that might raise turnout rates by a bit

Was considering the lollipops thing, as well giving stickers to whose who had voted so that they wouldn't be annoyed by campaign teams, but then again it would be coming out of Union money and isn't essential so...

Thirdfox

How about a shame campaign for those who didn't vote e.g. ask not what your SU can do for you etc. etc.? (The lollipops thing I just mentioned as a joke )

Chardee MacDennis

i think it was better promoted last year. voting times only went up on the Tuesday night, also out in James' and D'Olier Street they hadnt a clue what was going on. the fact myself, barry and harman went out to james' and firstly had to explain what was going on, who we were and why they should vote and then give them times that ended up being wrong says a lot - and i am not having a dig at dónal coz he worked his ass off but it was very frustrating.

i think Tom could have done a lot better job advertising for hustings and polling - out in the affiliates there did seem to be posters up for hustings but JCR and dining hall hustings were very poorly advertised - no wonder the people who turned up were all campaign teams and reps etc.

the ec's recommendation for an email just for the elections is a good idea. and awayindahills made a very valid point about the same old people turning up, we need to figure out how to get the everyday person involved and i think we should be looking at the class reps - i'll expand on that later but i have to leave for the match now.

enjoy

cuckoo

If one of the 5 officers elect turns out to be a visible walking car wreck of a disaster, then that'll up the turnout next year. Which of the 5 wants to volunteer for that role?

I'd say that awayinthehills might have over estimated the number of students who are actively engaged in the 'trinity experience' - i'd put it at 2,000 maximum. I hate the catchphrase, cover all occasions....*drum roll*....apathy, but it does apply.

We hear it all the time, but students in some ways have never had it so good. No fees (we'll leave the fees-by-the-back-door reg fee out of it for now), full employment economy, postgrad opportunities everywhere (well, if we're science/eng), no more queues for drafty flats in Dublin 6 every Sept....etc.

I'd break the non-engagement down into seperate groups:

i) i have to work, i'm not talking about the part time job for drinking money brigade, these are the students that have jobs to meet their rent and living costs. They work long hours, might go along to various events but don't have the time to really commit to being on commitees and the like. Long coffee/hack breaks during the day are less of an option if you'll be pulling pints for 6 hours that night.

ii) i want schols/a first, this crowd missed all those talks in school about a work/life balance, college for them is lecture/library/tutorial/library. They put the rest of us to shame with their abilities (to study and, sometimes, a gift for their subject), and we try and mollify our shamed selves by thinking 'sure, they don't have a life'. They may not have a life, but they do get commons...

iii) i'm only in dublin as long as this degree takes, and come 4pm Friday afternoon they're on the bus/train out of here. Boyfriend/girlfriend in the home town, they bring their dirty washing home for the weekend, see all the old crowd and maybe play a match for the local sports club. Suspicious of a lot of those strange Dublin people. Get the study done during the week - it leaves more time to enjoy the fresh, clean air of home.

iv) study? giggle, i want more toast, too stoned to leave their homes, it's a miracle if they make it into college at all, let alone remember to show up at the right time for various events.

v)yah, loike, doddy bought me the cor for doing well in the 'ol LC, and while i'm not in any way slamming all institute of education alumni with the same title of apathetic, there is a large cohort in 'trinners' who had a life changing moment when they convinced the parentals to let them leave their schools and go to the uniform-free paradise that is the Tute. And, omg, they made such good friends there that why bother meeting new people when they go to colll? All the old gang are still together, and still sharing STIs with the group. Call me!

vi)my course are my people, my people my course, and why bother talking to anyone not studying my course? A very strong affliction among the health sciences crew, possibly due to the long hours/placements thing, but among some of them (yes, med students, i'm looking at you) it's a case of points snobbery - these are the type heard to say (when actually venturing forth out of the disinfected tower), "but, why are you only doing arts when you got 600 points?". There's also a 'nam-esques element to this isolationist attitude some people have, 'you just don't understand, you weren't there at that 10am lecture man - i'm still getting flashbacks...'


There's also all the other people who don't fit into the above groups.

Thirdfox

"v)yah, loike, doddy bought me the cor for doing well in the 'ol LC, and while i'm not in any way slamming all institute of education alumni with the same title of apathetic, there is a large cohort in 'trinners' who had a life changing moment when they convinced the parentals to let them leave their schools and go to the uniform-free paradise that is the Tute. And, omg, they made such good friends there that why bother meeting new people when they go to colll? All the old gang are still together, and still sharing STIs with the group. Call me!"

wanna join them?

I would be in group 2 (if I weren't online all the time)

People just have the time to do everything well... you either do one thing well and screw the rest or do multiple things averagely... balancing study, sport, social life isn't easy at all

Snobbery? Isn't all of Trinity about snobbery? Or there actually extra groups of ultra snobs from the region of medicine/pharmacy/(dare I add) law???

cuckoo

Thirdfox wrote:

"v)yah, loike, doddy bought me the cor for doing well in the 'ol LC, and while i'm not in any way slamming all institute of education alumni with the same title of apathetic, there is a large cohort in 'trinners' who had a life changing moment when they convinced the parentals to let them leave their schools and go to the uniform-free paradise that is the Tute. And, omg, they made such good friends there that why bother meeting new people when they go to colll? All the old gang are still together, and still sharing STIs with the group. Call me!"

wanna join them?

I would be in group 2 (if I weren't online all the time)

People just have the time to do everything well... you either do one thing well and screw the rest or do multiple things averagely... balancing study, sport, social life isn't easy at all

Snobbery? Isn't all of Trinity about snobbery? Or there actually extra groups of ultra snobs from the region of medicine/pharmacy/(dare I add) law???

I would like a car (even a cor), but i put the 'call me!' there just for the fun of it, as it is such a universal sign off on conversations for them. Although, i do envy them their self assurance sometimes.

I don't think that Trinity per se is snobby, there are a few people in the college that can be a bit up themselves, but then i'm from south county dublin ross o'carroll-kelly land, so maybe my tolerance level is higher.

But....i do think the higher point courses can have a lot of people in them that are a little too thrilled with themselves for their points alone. It's something that seems to gradual taper off during first year, maybe it's a reaction to the huge amount of work they did for the LC and the pressure they were under/put themselves under?

Thirdfox

See how uncool I am... I didn't know that! (Even though I live a stone's throw away from Fuxrock)

We JFers didn't really talk about the LC at all (at least not in law anyway)... we're spending more time despairing about our essays

What's with all this Trinners 4 Winners stuff then... and at the colours debate the Trinity team got the whole room to chant C A O - it might all be for a laugh but we only laugh because there is an element of truth contained there.

I actually thought you put in the "Call me" to get them to get STI checks from you (you are studying nursing right?) Guess what I'm studying! (hint: it has absolutely nothing to do with my signature )

Edwardius

Yeah, that and the fact that over the last five years the following promises have been made:

-Off licence on campus: Not a scalded cat's chance in an acid bath in an oven in hell. I'd say security and their mates would love some self important student "politician" nasally whining to the board about the introduction of something likely to cause the apocalypse on campus. You're a whoring **** of a vote grabbing trog (the slate came up with this, dunno what it is though, rather like my first day at school where I told the teacher to **** off, thinking it to be a term of acknowledgement of others' presence having learned the term that day. a slap put that right).

-You're not going to make RAG week more "fun" it's gonna be the same iron stomach/**** nightclub concession bull**** that bombards us all every year. So **** right off and don't even pretend you're gonna do anything apart from sit on your hole and take up where the previous slacker left off (buttery gigs excepted, some o' them were good)

-You're not going to try to bring the government's attention to third world debt (one of the more outlandish claims made by a previous candidate who shall remain unnamed [ed reilly]), you're gonna sit in that damn house and send a crappy email with nice coloured writing listing "events" for the upcoming time interval every week or so. If you want more people to vote, put a stop to these bono-esqe (little ****, could sing a bit but now more preoccupied with being a ****. The edge should learn a new riff too, it's been thirty years, people are starting to notice) claims of being the saviours of college and the champions of downtrodden students. Bull****, you want the following in bold Italics and underline smack bang in the centre of your C.V. "Sabattacle [spellin?] officer in TCD for the academic year .... to ...."

-Fees aren't coming back so stop the eurasia vs eastasia bull****. I remember the president from a few years ago trying to rile us all up for a march on the Dail by exclaiming "we're really angry" (no, really!) and nothing more before we wandered up to kildare street before being serenaded by indakinny and that lefty **** ruairi quinn. OOOOO and that shinner (whose name I won't even attempt to spell) o caomhlain (?) about how they'll be nice to us poor students if we vote for them (ARRR, not said but subtext), but he'll have our kneecaps if we step outta line.

Anyway the attention span is fading rapidly and initial rage is meltin' into that zen-like post-smashin'-some-logs-with-an-axe hippy peace bull**** so I'll say this:

2500 people would be mostly first years with an exponential decay off as people begin to get some sense they're being screwed over (or rather not, contrary to our revolutionary powerhouse candidate friends allusions to the contrary, which is the...). After hearing the same crap from the same turd polished in a different manner over the course of three or four years, I don't think you could call it apathy. It's more like Contempt!.
Thing is though, is the person who claims they'll do a good job on the mundane issues they can actually influence actually gonna get voted in insead of the brown nosers??

Nietzschean

then there's the huge group
vii) Em yeah, i heard the SU was a pile of smelly poop when i started the college, joined a million societies/clubs though never end up going to any.

And the figure of 2,000 i wouldn't say is a maximum if you consider all the club membership/activity... surf club would have had over 200 students, possibly 300 involved in at least one event of the year. So take into account the other big clubs that don't mix a huge ammount, climbing/swimming/gaa/canoe'n and ye probally get 1,000 people at least in clubs alone, then ye have the socities people...probally at least another 1000(that arn't active in some club)... then the SU groupies(yes you susan..)...

must be at least 3k in total?

though since the clubs have very little to do with the SU(apart from a certain sabbat ripping posters down) that i'm aware of, participation in clubs isn't really going to be reflected in a higher poll turn out.


As for voting, the only people i know who bothered at all knew people running, no one else cared.........

cuckoo

Nietzschean wrote:

... then the SU groupies(yes you susan..)...

That's right, i'm going to be hanging around Dave Quinn's office door, begging him to sign various parts of my anatomy. :rolleyes: Then i'm going to get Denise to autograph condom wrappers for me, before i tell the education officer how meaningful their reports on semesterisation are.

Hmmm,i don't really understand the "it's crap, stay away" attitude to the SU - unless people are receiving the grant they'll have paid the reg fee so are funding the SU. I like to know how my money is spent. That's why i hang around office doors, begging various officers to sign parts of my anatomy, no, wait, i mean, that's why i vote in SU elections and have a general idea of what the officers are up to and what they should be up to.

Dead Ed - you forgot the "i'm going to bring the union back to the students" followed 30 seconds later by "the students are the union", are/bring, are/bring - some candidates confuse me.

And, sfw if people are going to put it on their CV? How many of us are actually studying, sitting through lectures, cramming for exams for a love of the subject? No, we want that BA/whatever to put on our CVs.

Nietzschean

cuckoo wrote:

Hmmm,i don't really understand the "it's crap, stay away" attitude to the SU - unless people are receiving the grant they'll have paid the reg fee so are funding the SU. I like to know how my money is spent. That's why i hang around office doors, begging various officers to sign parts of my anatomy, no, wait, i mean, that's why i vote in SU elections and have a general idea of what the officers are up to and what they should be up to.

The contributation per person is too low to make us really care about oversight.., if there was a tick box on some form i'm sure most people would opt out of su membership, but its more effort to opt out...

Chardee MacDennis

point on the i'm going to make rag week more fun: there are 2 reasons why rag week is crap:

1. trinity is full of nerds - hate to say it but people wont take the time off to get involved in the week and if the Ents/Education Officer were to arrange a week off for it - guess what? people would either not come in or be in the library - getting trinity students out is the hardest thing in the world.

2. when you try and do something fun college say no - this year i had a dodgeball tournament and touch american football tournament turned down and a whole host of alcohol related events rejected coz it would infringe on the alcohol policy and the one alcohol thing thats done is held against us! absolutely ridiculous.

Off-licence on campus wont happen although house 6 SU Shop having a wine licence is cheap but i've heard there is no room in the shop and thats why they it wont happen. also even if we could get cheap wine the taxes on it are amazing so it would probably work out the same price as centra.

and i dont reckon it is first years that vote; half of them dont have a clue what the SU is till campaigning starts and even then they presume if they havent heard of it then it dont do nothing for em. and 4th years dont give a flying fcuk. so that leaves 2/3 year which is around 6000 students??? well then 2500 is not a bad turn out!

i dont claim to know how to fix it but i think its up to class reps to get people motivated and realisticly we're never going to have the students of the 70s/80s where they actually marched and all - apathy is rampant and i dont think there is a way to beat it.

also making council a bit more interesting may help. i managed to get to one on tuesday and it didnt start on time and it just about made quorum (sp?) and when i left was inquorate(sp?) so nothing else could happen. also this wands and sceptares thing i just dont know where to start...

i'm sorry if this is a bit rantish and not at all focused but i'm very tired and wanted to add my 2 cents

Pet

iii) i'm only in dublin as long as this degree takes, and come 4pm Friday afternoon they're on the bus/train out of here. Boyfriend/girlfriend in the home town, they bring their dirty washing home for the weekend, see all the old crowd and maybe play a match for the local sports club. Suspicious of a lot of those strange Dublin people. Get the study done during the week - it leaves more time to enjoy the fresh, clean air of home.

v)yah, loike, doddy bought me the cor for doing well in the 'ol LC, and while i'm not in any way slamming all institute of education alumni with the same title of apathetic, there is a large cohort in 'trinners' who had a life changing moment when they convinced the parentals to let them leave their schools and go to the uniform-free paradise that is the Tute. And, omg, they made such good friends there that why bother meeting new people when they go to colll? All the old gang are still together, and still sharing STIs with the group. Call me!

I have to say I know a lot of people who fit into those groups. I really don't understand it - I have plenty of friends from home who I see regularly, but it's not some kind of golden circle. College is probably the best place to meet interesting, educated, intelligent people from all walks of life - why do they keep up this social incest? They're the ones losing out though.

Oh, and excellent posts from both cuckoo and dead ed, I'm in agreement with both.

Thirdfox

The JF law class voted in large numbers afaik...

Why no dodgeball? Safety reasons?

Reason one also applies to lecturers not making their lectures optional during RAG week... miss them and you miss something important.

We should start marching (or sitting down if that's what you prefer) to bring back the glory days of the student movement... but what should we protest against?

Pet

realisticly we're never going to have the students of the 70s/80s where they actually marched and all - apathy is rampant and i dont think there is a way to beat it.

Bring back fees. I'm scaring myself with my right-wingedness here, but if students had to fight for their right to third level education, they might appreciate it a bit more. So many people just take it for granted, it's an extension of secondary school for them. And that feeds back into the "seeing kool and the gang at the weekend, loike" mentality.

Chardee MacDennis

yup safety reasons!
what i would have liked to do was ask lecturers to ease off on students for the week, how that will work over a whole Rag Term i dont know!

pet i agree we have it too easy and a lot of people's attitude is if they bring back fees it probably wont happen while i am in college so why care.

Crash

Here's my idea for rag week - i will attempt to organise it so look forward to it!

---dun dun DUN!

mini brother!

DCU did it - the idea was you stick a few students in a campervan in college, webcam it up to the nines and broadcast it everywhere!

stick them in there for four days or so, and throw the odd mission into them! it'd be great craic. might actually get a bit of spirit going into rag week for ONCE in its life like.

anyhow, will be my mission for next year, provided we dont end up with rag term

Thirdfox

...or one of those tiny security vans that Trinity has... but that might be breaking some health laws or something...

Awayindahils

cuckoo wrote:

I'd say that awayinthehils might have over estimated the number of students who are actively engaged in the 'trinity experience' - i'd put it at 2,000 maximum.




iii) i'm only in dublin as long as this degree takes, and come 4pm Friday afternoon they're on the bus/train out of here. Boyfriend/girlfriend in the home town, they bring their dirty washing home for the weekend, see all the old crowd and maybe play a match for the local sports club. Suspicious of a lot of those strange Dublin people. Get the study done during the week - it leaves more time to enjoy the fresh, clean air of home.


v)yah, loike, doddy bought me the cor for doing well in the 'ol LC, and while i'm not in any way slamming all institute of education alumni with the same title of apathetic, there is a large cohort in 'trinners' who had a life changing moment when they convinced the parentals to let them leave their schools and go to the uniform-free paradise that is the Tute. And, omg, they made such good friends there that why bother meeting new people when they go to colll? All the old gang are still together, and still sharing STIs with the group. Call me!

I thought i might be over estimating but i reckon ball park it is about 2500. i only set it at up to 4000 becuase of the number who voted last year.

As for the groups of disengagement, i agree with you and i suppose they are always going to exist. As for the two above i agree with Pet they are absolutely losing out. and they are just remaining in their incetous groups, well the tutes are absolutely, i happen to be one but actually held more contempt for them while i was in the tute than now. and i didn't really realise that they existed so independently within college till i ended up sitting at the back of a lectur last week and two of them (who came in after me) had a converstaion over my head about first where they were going to that night and second whether or not they should have gotten out of bed at all. by the end of it i was firmly in favour of their staying in bed.

Thing is if you could get one of them to vote you'd probably gte 5 or 6 at one time becuase its not just that they can't go to the bathroom alone, its tat they can do noting alone. but then they still care what people think to the degree which most people are concerned at 14/15 so getting one to be a non sheep would be difficult.

I know that my post was idealistic and i can see the fllaws with the union, and the potentially empty promises of even the past elections were just as dishearting as all the others mentioned already. it would be interesting to see if someone could have won on the basis of john mannion is doing a good job, lets not rock the boat, i'll keep doing what hes doing and as a result we'll actually have things accomplished by the end of my term. and yea i know that probably happens to a certain extent already.

shay_562

Hey- i was warned about being called something on boards so i decided to take a look...I wasn't godawful at dining hall hustings, i was just nervous and tired from the whole election process! I think i was quite sexy.

Oh, I wouldn't dream of denying the sexiness. It was the speaking part that kinda let you down (and like Nietzschean already said, that's understandable). And I did say in my last post that you were probably the best candidate for it. So really, if some random boards-er calling you "godawful" is the worst insult you get during your term, you'll be doing well. And I'm oddly pleased by the thought of one of my posts sending you rushing to a computer. For future reference, never pay attention to anything I say. Half of it is confused rambling, the rest is just plain wrong.

you're just a b@tch. There is an increasing likeness to the devil boy aviator.

No, I'm just honest. Occasionally, the two co-incide. Oh, and thanks for the vote of confidence.

On the whole "student apathy" thing, I think Pet's right - when student life is, for the most part, pretty good, there's much less incentive for people to vote. Although (and this is just a random thought), why are we so worried? If people don't vote, then **** 'em. I'd much rather have 2,000 people who actually know something about the elections and have given at least some thought to it (that is, more than the other 13,000) than have 5,000 people ticking random boxes because Donal's handing out free lollipops, because that way the elections become farcical and the results meaningless - if it's an issue of mandate (ie, that you can't claim to be a representative of the college when 80% or more didn't vote at all, let alone vote for you) then I don't see how trying to force the numbers up helps all that much, since it makes the mandate kinda hollow. While I can't speak for the outside buildings, there was no shortage of information about the elections in the arts block or the Hamilton, so if people aren't going to bother with elections then why should we bother with them?

Edwardius

Pet wrote:

I'm scaring myself with my right-wingedness here

You should probably stop before you get this far:

cuckoo wrote:

And, sfw if people are going to put it on their CV? How many of us are actually studying, sitting through lectures, cramming for exams for a love of the subject? No, we want that BA/whatever to put on our CVs.

The degree thing has nothing to do with pretending to do good for anyone else. It's a one man war of pain and suffering for four years! As opposed to pretending you're campaigning for the good of the student (akin to calling a spade a wooden handled metallic earth-moving device).

Agent Smith

what about calling a spade a shovel?

Edwardius

agent smith wrote:

what about calling a spade a shovel?

You'd be wrong though, A shovel is also a blunt instrument designed to cause pain to others with a proportional relation between the hillarity experienced by the clouter and the pain recieved by the cloutee... A spade's better for diggin' a hole too, shovels are more for loose ground and gravel.

cuckoo

shay_562 wrote:

On the whole "student apathy" thing, I think Pet's right - when student life is, for the most part, pretty good, there's much less incentive for people to vote. Although (and this is just a random thought), why are we so worried? If people don't vote, then **** 'em. I'd much rather have 2,000 people who actually know something about the elections and have given at least some thought to it (that is, more than the other 13,000) than have 5,000 people ticking random boxes because Donal's handing out free lollipops, because that way the elections become farcical and the results meaningless - if it's an issue of mandate (ie, that you can't claim to be a representative of the college when 80% or more didn't vote at all, let alone vote for you) then I don't see how trying to force the numbers up helps all that much, since it makes the mandate kinda hollow. While I can't speak for the outside buildings, there was no shortage of information about the elections in the arts block or the Hamilton, so if people aren't going to bother with elections then why should we bother with them?

Good point.