Royce Gracie Vs. Matt Hughes announced at May UFC

columok

www.sherdog.com

Its been announced. I cant see Royce getting anything but messed up at this one.

Matt Hughes by G n P Round 2

Tim_Murphy

:eek: Fair play to him and all but...

dunkamania

Its hard to see Royce winning that one..............

..................A congenital heart defect has apparently felled Hughes moments before he could enter the ring.:)

ricey

Well im all for Royce in this fight, I just cant stand matt Hughes.

Baldie

Matt Hughes by thumping the living **** out of Royce Gracie... Excuse my french...

dlofnep

Yeah was watching it today. Royce is stepping up and fightign some real competition. Fair play to him.

damo

hes definately showed that he has alot more balls than rickson throughout his career...but i think this fight must be purely for the money - theres no way hes gonna beat hughes, if he thinks he can than hes a fool

Dragan

Is it not Matt Hughes who said that when two people step in the ring anything can happen?

mark.leonard

Dragan wrote:

Is it not Matt Hughes who said that when two people step in the ring anything can happen?

Agreed, but the odds are heavily, heavily against Royce in this one.

Dragan

Yeah , but only if Matt Huges doesn't underestimate him. I hope Matt doesn't, and trains his heart out for the fight, cuz i don't want to see him make the same mistake he made against Penn and walk in overconfident.

If he gives Gracie any opening Gracie will be on it like white on rice. Matt will win as long as he does not make any mistakes.

As such it's really a win win situation for Royce. If Matt wins it will be what is expected, in Royce wins it will be uproar. Plain and simple.

Valmont

Look what happened to Matt when he fought BJ Penn, Royce has equal if not better BJJ than Bj. Everone is saying G'N'P by matt but Royce wants to be on his back and he's subbed guys way heavier than him from this position.

Dragan

You can have all the BJJ you want to be honest, if a fighter like Hughes knows your brining it then it effectiveness is dulled. Look at Evan Tanner when he took on Terrell. Terrell is a BJJ blackbelt who had never had a point scored against him. SO he was a BJJ blackbelt who would easily submit other BJJ blackbelts. Tanner stood with him and rocked him, Terrell went for the take down which Tanner defended well, got Terrell against the cage and beat on him until the ref called an end to it.

The reason Penn schooled Hughes was because Hughes took the match lightly, as far as he was concerned he would be stronger and more dominant then Penn as Penn was coming up a class and even Hughes has said that he could fight as 185 with ease, but when you can make the weight for any class then your in. So Hughes was expecting to go in and control Penn. This was a mistake as Penn is an extrememly talented guy and Hughes just was not able to shake him. Hughes has also come along way with reversing subs and chokes since.

Sure, Royce can be a wildcard, but if you don't see that the advantage goes to Hughes then your crazy. Hughes will be prepared this time , against Penn he was not and failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

mark.leonard

B.J. is a complete MMA fighter and about ten times the fighter that Royce is, I think B.J. beat Matt because on that day he was better than Matt. I really can't see that happening with Royce, if it goes past the first round in fact I'll be surprised.As a friend of mine put it - with the signing of this match they have legalised murder in the state of Nevada!

Dragan

mark.leonard wrote:

B.J. is a complete MMA fighter and about ten times the fighter that Royce is

Bingo

Ph3n0m

will this be televised anywhere or do we have to wait for the dvd?

Dragan

twil most likely make it to brave before the dvd comes out.

Ph3n0m

hehehehehe, you said "twil"

Clive

Valmont what are you basing Royce having equal or better BJJ than Penn on? Most people would definitely say the other way around!

Props to Royce! I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't think Hughes will be able to finish Royce (unless he keeps it stadning, which he won't).

columok

Props to Royce! I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't think Hughes will be able to finish Royce (unless he keeps it stadning, which he won't).

I think Matt Hughes will look to keep the fight standing and to be honest with standups and Royces Standup/Clinch range I dont think that he can win this one. All he can hope is to lie down and hope matt gets annoyed enough to want follow him into his guard and pound him. Then... Royce might be able to last 3 rounds.

Clive

columok wrote:

I think Matt Hughes will look to keep the fight standing and to be honest with standups and Royces Standup/Clinch range I dont think that he can win this one.

That would be the sensible thing to do, but I still think Hughes will take him down and get stuck in Royce's guard.

Valmont

Clive wrote:

Valmont what are you basing Royce having equal or better BJJ than Penn on? Most people would definitely say the other way around!

Props to Royce! I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't think Hughes will be able to finish Royce (unless he keeps it stadning, which he won't).

Eh... He's a Gracie? I just assumed because he is the Royce Gracie who introduced everyone to BJJ and has been doing it way longer than Bj.Sorry. Basically my point is if anyone can submit Matt Hughes then Royce Gracie has just as good a chance as anyone.
Although it could be like when people said that Rich Franklin couldn't handle Ken Shamrock, man were they wrong.

Dragan

Even if Huges does get stuck in Royces guard then the victory will be his. You can't win be defending afterall, so unless Royce is far more active that Hughes ( which i don't see ) then he will lose.

I still reckon Hughes will go for a big takedown into side control against the fence. He might be will to trade with Royce for a while, but eventually Royce will be looking to take it to the ground and once again it would be better for Hughes to be in his guard than vice versa.

I still say Hughes takes him down, side control against the fence and pounds on him until Big John calls it over.

Arnagan

dlofnep wrote:

Yeah was watching it today. Royce is stepping up and fightign some real competition. Fair play to him.

I see Royce winning the fight by submission no later than the 4th round, the 5th; only if Hughes has his best day ever defending against it.

Arnagan

damo wrote:

hes definately showed that he has alot more balls than rickson throughout his career...but i think this fight must be purely for the money - theres no way hes gonna beat hughes, if he thinks he can than hes a fool

Why would u say that? Royce has beaten stronger wrestlers than Hughes (Savern & Shamrock), is heavier than Hughes, and more experienced.
And as for needing money, u think he already spent the million dollars K-1 paid him last new years for defeating Akebono?

Colm_OReilly

Me and Nunu, we been doin kickboxing for 15 years man, a lotta people tend to forget that!

Dragan

Didn't Nanu recently fight Frank Shamrock, or was i dreaming that?

damo

Arnagan wrote:

Why would u say that? Royce has beaten stronger wrestlers than Hughes (Savern & Shamrock), is heavier than Hughes, and more experienced.
And as for needing money, u think he already spent the million dollars K-1 paid him last new years for defeating Akebono?

Hah! when he beat Severn and Shamrock there was no such thing as modern MMA as we know it - Severn and Shamrock didnt have a clue how to counter BJJ.

Matt Hughes is a complete modern mma fighter & it is my opinion that he will b!tch slap Royce around the cage.

Do I think he has spent the million dollars from K-1? Duhhh...I dunno matey but heres a life lesson for you: You have to maximise your earning potential during your career. Do you think in a few years time people will be offering him that kind of money to fight? He is cashing in one of his last big paycheques from fighting. Where would Bill Gates be now if he stopped working after making his first million? Certainly not the richest man in the world anyway thats for sure.

Arnagan

damo wrote:

Hah! when he beat Severn and Shamrock there was no such thing as modern MMA as we know it -

Vale Tudo's been going on in brazil since the 50's bra, its just new to us outside that country. And as for modern MMA? Its pattycake compaired to what goes on there.

<<Severn and Shamrock didnt have a clue how to counter BJJ.>>

I was compairing them to hughes in regards to strength actually. I don't believe Matt's strength as a wrestler is gonna benifit him as much as some may think.
I don't believe Matt's gnp, minus head butts, minus knees to the head of a prone opponent r gonna do much more than maybe wear Royce down a little. More likely than not, Matt Huhes will try standing till Royces reach annoys him, he'll go right into Royces guard where he'll fall back on what he knows best (GNP) and Royce will slowly but surely work his way up into a submission.
Oh and I'm betting Royce takes this fight wearing a gi.

<<Matt Hughes is a complete modern mma fighter & it is my opinion that he will b!tch slap Royce around the cage.>>

I dunno, I really don't believe u believe that. A person really confident of such a claim IMHO, wouldn't put it that way. Sounds more like wishful thinking, which I can understand.

mark.leonard

Arnagan wrote:

Vale Tudo's been going on in brazil since the 50's bra, its just new to us outside that country. And as for modern MMA? Its pattycake compaired to what goes on there.

Dear oh dear! If Royce was a veteran of these secret Brazilian MMA events do you not think it would be reflected in his performance in other events like Pride? (where he fought like a tired old man by the way)
Royce has not got an MMA record from Brazil or anywhere else that would allow him to take advantage of the Brazilian experience in MMA.

Arnagan wrote:

I was compairing them to hughes in regards to strength actually. I don't believe Matt's strength as a wrestler is gonna benifit him as much as some may think.
I don't believe Matt's gnp, minus head butts, minus knees to the head of a prone opponent r gonna do much more than maybe wear Royce down a little. More likely than not, Matt Huhes will try standing till Royces reach annoys him, he'll go right into Royces guard where he'll fall back on what he knows best (GNP) and Royce will slowly but surely work his way up into a submission.

Matt Hughes is ten times the wrestler that either Severn or Ken Shamrock is, and he is probably the strongest pound for pound fighter in MMA. If Matt's GnP (which has ALWAYS been minus headbutts and knees to the head) is of such trivial value how has he managed to destroy so many people with his ground control in the past?
DO you really think that if people like Sean Sherk and GSP couldn't submit him that someone with Jiu Jitsu as dated as Royce will be able to? That is just plain ignoring the facts!

Arnagan wrote:

Oh and I'm betting Royce takes this fight wearing a gi.

Well then you would be betting wrong as wearing the gi is against Nevada State Athletic Commission rules AFAIK.

Arnagan wrote:

I dunno, I really don't believe u believe that. A person really confident of such a claim IMHO, wouldn't put it that way. Sounds more like wishful thinking, which I can understand.

I really think he does believe that as I think it is a belief shared by many people! Certainly it is the belief of everyone I know.

damo

Riiiiiight.

Lets just agree to disagree.

Dragan

Hughes is a hugley strong 170 pound guy, if you think that won't help him in ANY fight then your an idiot.

MMA now compared to MMA back then is a totally different beast, there is far more involved now than when Royce and Frankie hugged each other for 30 mins.

There is no point in bringing Vale Tudo into it, as this is not a Vale Tudo match and therefore it doesn't matter a ****. That's kinda like comparing Cage Rage to Finn Fight.... ****ing pointless.

If you knew anything about the fight you would know that Royce has agreed to fight under the UFC clothing criteria....... no gi.

Hughes has done nothing but improve his whole career, and he is at a perfect point to take on someone like Royce. A lot of people will make big about a lot of things, but at the end of the day the two people who seem to be taking this thing the easiest are the two fighters.

To quote Royce " Matt is a great fighter and I am a great fighter. We will see the way things go on the day."

To quote Matt " People ask me how i'm not getting complacent. I just keep saying his name , Royce Gracie. You gotta respect that name, and his ability and what he's done."

Just chill out and enjoy the fight folks!

damo

P.S

i WILL dig this thread up when Royce is nursing his face in the A & E room in Nevada state hospital!

waterford mma

i think matt hughes will get the jd but i don't think its impossible for royce to win. . . everyone says that royces jiujitsu is outdated . . but the gracies were doin everything you see today years before ufc even hit the scene . . . maybe his mma is a little outdated . . . . i'm not gonna argue but i do believe that with the right training partners and if he performs to his best on the night royce can pull off a quick sub on the ground. he has the first round to do it, hughes will close down after that and not try anything. i don't think it will happen but if it does that would be the best day ever. fingers crossed for royce.

judomick

royce has not fought anyone with any world class skills since yoshida and that was years ago before yoshida became in any way competent in striking, his last fight was against a no name japanes guy (tokoro) and that ended in a draw! if he couldnt finish that guy hes not goin to finish hughes huhes has better striking better take downs and his g'n'p is in a different league to Royce's, Royce was the man 15 years ago and most of us would not be doing what were doing now if it wasnt for him, he is a great jiu jitsu player but mma is a different game, if my mma career is where Royce's is right now id take a big paycheck for gettin my ass kicked too!

retirement here i come:D

Dragan

I know i've put this out there before, but hey, seeing as people are doubting Hughes i'll stick it up again. I'll see if I can find a decent Royce Highlight anywhere as well.

http://www.youtube.com/w/Matt-Hughes-highlight?v=sjD4sISOxBQ&search=mma

Dragan

http://www.youtube.com/w/Royce-Gracie-vs-Sakuraba?v=_Py2nRD00KE&search=royce%20gracie

Not a highlight, but i think it accurately demonstrates the points being made against Royce. I will try and find something about the BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes fight so people can see the weaknesses in Hughes game ( which he has pretty much covered now by the way! )

Arnagan

Dragan wrote:

You can have all the BJJ you want to be honest, if a fighter like Hughes knows your brining it then it effectiveness is dulled.

So Hughes was unaware of Hallman and BJ?

Look at Evan Tanner when he took on Terrell. Terrell is a BJJ blackbelt who had never had a point scored against him. SO he was a BJJ blackbelt who would easily submit other BJJ blackbelts.

Keep in mind that a wunderkind in Jiu Jitsu doesn't necessarily translate into being a wunderkind at MMA. Look at the obvious difference in the MMA careers of Yoshida (went the distance with Vandelei twice, 1 ncontest 1 draw v Royce, tapped Hunt, decision loss to Roulan) and Oyama (the most protected hyped up bullcrap product out of Japan) both of wich r olympic medalists in Judo.

<<Tanner stood with him and rocked him, Terrell went for the take down which Tanner defended well, got Terrell against the cage and beat on him until the ref called an end to it.>>

Yeah but lets b fair now, as cagy and well prepaired as Evan Tanner was, Terrel did almost submit him in the same technique Hallman submitted Hughes in. If he'd been smart and better prepaired (maybe even better trained, who knows?) Terrell would have let go of the Guillotenne before loosing it, and worked Tanner into his guard, and begin attempts at transitioning into something better. As it were, he shot his load, Tanner flipped the switch and as everyone saw, would have put the rookies lights out as if Herb Deane hadda let him.

The reason Penn schooled Hughes was because Hughes took the match lightly, as far as he was concerned he would be stronger and more dominant then Penn as Penn was coming up a class

So what's the excuse gonna be when Hughes gets beaten this time, he took Royce lightley cause he respects the elderly?

Hughes was expecting to go in and control Penn. This was a mistake as Penn is an extrememly talented guy and Hughes just was not able to shake him. Hughes has also come along way with reversing subs and chokes since.

Hughes goes into every fight thinking the same exact thing, even if he trains well for contingency plans (ie the way he tapped GSP, and the way he's willing to win with submissions now last fight). His whole game is to dominate positioning with strength and power, taking his shots as they come weather they're slams or submition attempts opened up with atemi like usage of blows. Royce will slowly, methodically exploit this.

Arnagan

Ph3n0m wrote:

will this be televised anywhere or do we have to wait for the dvd?

I'll b watching it live, and by then I should have my Mac up and running. If thats the case, just e-mail me and I'll b more than willing to share the wealth with any die hards.

columok

Two things working against Royce doing this:

Royce will slowly, methodically exploit this.

3 rounds...

And his very poor stand up and poor clinch particularily relative to a monster like hughes. Admittedly royce has a better sub game then hughes but without the gi and over 3 rounds I dont think Royce can control Hughes.

I can see Royce getting tagged standing up. Being semi safe on the ground (though getting tagged a few times) and failing to do anything tbh.

In spite of it all I'm up for the underdog but tbh I cant see it.

Arnagan

Clive wrote:

Valmont what are you basing Royce having equal or better BJJ than Penn on? Most people would definitely say the other way around!

I dunno about Val, but I'd base that assumption on Royces wins over Pardue, his draw with Yoshida, his 1 hour and 45 minute 7 round war with Sakuraba, his ability to utilise only ju jitsu to defeat fighters much muchbigger, and stronger than him while taking viscous poundings.
How many 250lbers has BJ fought and defeated on a regular basis?

damo

Arnagan wrote:

I dunno about Val, but I'd base that assumption on Royces wins over Pardue, his draw with Yoshida, his 1 hour and 45 minute 7 round war with Sakuraba, his ability to utilise only ju jitsu to defeat fighters much muchbigger, and stronger than him while taking viscous poundings.
How many 250lbers has BJ fought and defeated on a regular basis?

OK OK I take it all back, Royce is still the man and hes gonna pimp-slap Hughes into submission.

Next stop Fedor.

Dragan

Arnagan wrote:

So what's the excuse gonna be when Hughes gets beaten this time, he took Royce lightley cause he respects the elderly?

I imagine that just like with Penn there won't be an excuse should he lose, he will simply say that Royce was better.

As i said earlier dude, your really taking the whole Royce thing a bit too far. He has the same chance of losing as Hughes does and that's 50/50 plain and simple.

If you just want to write off Hughes then do that, but pray that Royce is not doing the same thing.

Oh yeah, and his seven round "war" with Saku was a 7 round hiding plain and simple.

Clive

Arnagan wrote:

I dunno about Val, but I'd base that assumption on Royces wins over Pardue, his draw with Yoshida, his 1 hour and 45 minute 7 round war with Sakuraba, his ability to utilise only ju jitsu to defeat fighters much muchbigger, and stronger than him while taking viscous poundings.
How many 250lbers has BJ fought and defeated on a regular basis?

Well, in terms of pure BJJ, Penn has won the mundials, and Royce has never won anything major that I know of.

In terms of subs for MMA, Royce's only sub win since 2000 was against Akebono, who, much like most of the people he beat early in his career, has little knowledge of submissions.

BJ, however has subbed Bang Ludwig, Matt Hughes and Gomi. He generally doesn't take part in freak show matches (hence no 250lbers on his record) but he has stepped up weight divisions in the past.

Royce is a legend, and I'd love to see him win, but BJ Penn is the Prodigy.

Arnagan

mark.leonard wrote:

Dear oh dear! If Royce was a veteran of these secret Brazilian MMA events do you not think it would be reflected in his performance in other events like Pride? (where he fought like a tired old man by the way)

I never said Royce was a veteran of any secret Brazilian MMA events, simply that MMA is only new outside of Brazil, where Royce came up. MMA started out as open challenge matches between Brazilian fighters, then Brazilian fight schools until it morphed into a sporting league that where athletes could b followed similarly along side the Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Mui Tai and Boxing leagues. That sporting league & sport is called Vale Tudo (anything goes) and was reborn in Brazil, after dying as pankration in Greece long ago.
E-mail me if u want my refferences as I don't wanna brake any rules having to do with links on this bb.
Now as for fighting like a tired old man in Pride, u can't possibly b reffering to his draw, or his no contest with Yoshida (technically it was called a Yoshida win via tap but then again, I do have eyes and yes . . . they work).
And if ur saying this about his fight with Sakuraba, implying that the outcome was due in some way to Royce being out of shape or over the hill or even outclassed somehow, then u haven't spent the hour and 45 minutes it takes to watch the match (probably read a review on it or something). So somehow, u must b reffering to Royces other matches in Pride, like the ones I've never heard about, so please enlighten me. I'll go out right now and find a dvd of the fights ur reffering too dude.

<<Royce has not got an MMA record from Brazil or anywhere else that would allow him to take advantage of the Brazilian experience in MMA.>>

As for Royces MMA record from Brazilian Vale Tudo as is sanctioned today and for the last 8 years by Sergio Batarelli, founder and president of CONFEDERAÇÃO BRASILEIRA DE LUTAS VALE TUDO, there is none.
But if ud like, e-mail me and I'll send u an mpeg file I have thats about 8500 kb's large, with sound, narated by Rixon I believe, showing Royce in one of these Open Challenge Vale Tudo matches u so strongly believe didn't happen.

Matt Hughes is ten times the wrestler that either Severn or Ken Shamrock is, and he is probably the strongest pound for pound fighter in MMA.

I understand now dude, uv never actually wrestled, or even followed the sport as an enthusiast, which is ok. Its not an easy sport to follow. If u did, ud know, that weight difference in that sport counts for so very very much. Regardless of Savern, Ken's or Matt Hughes amature wrestling careers, on the matt against each other, the heavier guy allways beats the significantly lighter guy in wrestling. My point was that if Royce could handle the gnp of the big boys, little Matt's GNP'd b relatively unthreatening.

<<If Matt's GnP (which has ALWAYS been minus headbutts and knees to the head) is of such trivial value how has he managed to destroy so many people with his ground control in the past?

Right, but the GNP Royce had to contend with in the early days of the UFC had head butts and had knees to the head, and he handled that pretty well.
As for little Matt's GNP, well he's been using it against people his weight while Royce has had to cope with GNP of folks who had up to 75 pounds on him.

DO you really think that if people like Sean Sherk and GSP couldn't submit him that someone with Jiu Jitsu as dated as Royce will be able to? That is just plain ignoring the facts!

I like u man, ur really trying to debate this well, ur stating an idea, backing it up with logical conclusions and it seems like ur not getting flustered or too caught up in the agression of it all (uv actually kept from insulting me personally which is nice). IMHO, ur just slightly less informed (seen less fights)than a fellow die hard should b, which is understandable as fight vids can b hard to come by.
Email me man, I'll send u any video files out of my archives that r small enough to go through cyberspace, that u want.
Just keep in mind man, I'm no Gracy fan. I just luv this sport and feel pretty confident in my assessments about fights, and fighters that I've seen a lot of.
U differ in ur thoughts, thats cool.
Can we both agree at least that we can't friggen wait for them to get it on?

Dragan

Arnagan wrote:

U differ in ur thoughts, thats cool.
Can we both agree at least that we can't friggen wait for them to get it on?

I think thats the cleverest thing you've said since you started this thing dude.:D

damo

Just out of interest Arnagan, did you happen to see Royces K-1 fight on new years just gone by?

Tim_Murphy

LOL, I can't believe that people are having a heated debate on this subject. :rolleyes:

IMHO, ur just slightly less informed (seen less fights)than a fellow die hard should b

LOL, I've seen Mr. Leonard dvd/tape collection. :eek: I think he has seen enough fights!!

over the hill or even outclassed somehow, then u haven't spent the hour and 45 minutes it takes to watch the match

I have (actually had) the event on DVD and I'm pretty sure it was an hour and a half long, not an hour and 45 mins.

john kavanagh

"the heavier guy allways beats the significantly lighter guy in wrestling."

well like any grappling contest "the heavier guy allways beats the significantly lighter guy" only if skill is equal. the heavier guy will not always beats the significantly lighter guy if the lighter guy is significantly more skillful.

as for who wins between Royce v Hughes - the heart says royce but the mind says matt however i've seen far too many 'upsets' in MMA fights to be confident in predicting ANY fight

Arnagan

As i said earlier dude, your really taking the whole Royce thing a bit too far. He has the same chance of losing as Hughes does and that's 50/50 plain and simple. If you just want to write off Hughes then do that, but pray that Royce is not doing the same thing.

In that vein we have a saying in American Football and it goes "Any Given Sunday." so sure, I'll give ya that. They both can win.
As for my need to so vociferously "call it" ull have to forgive me as its just one of those American habits I've unknowingly picked up.
But rest assured, I'm not writing Hughes off, I just see the deck stacked against the kid in this one, which isn't a bad thing. Kid could learn a lot and get very good loosing a long war of attrition to the likes of Royce.

Oh yeah, and his seven round "war" with Saku was a 7 round hiding plain and simple.

[/QUOTE]

LOL. It just kill's u to not have seen it yet, hugh?

Arnagan

damo wrote:

Just out of interest Arnagan, did you happen to see Royces K-1 fight on new years just gone by?

What that kimura win (I think it was) vs akebono?
Yeah, didn't really interest me as much as the Fugita vs that Egyptian wrestler match, or the lightweight k-1 kickboxing match for the belt. Didn't really dig the show all together, thought it was so so.
Or r u saying Royce fought this New Years?

Arnagan

I have (actually had) the event on DVD and I'm pretty sure it was an hour and a half long, not an hour and 45 mins.

[/QUOTE]

Did Hixon throw the towel in right before the beginning of the 7th? He did didn't he, I allways mistake that fight for a 7 rounder instead of a 6, I dunno why.